Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese


Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - A realistic discusion of the coming Health Plan
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Now tracking the Aussie Flu.

A realistic discusion of the coming Health Plan

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
Medclinician View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group
Avatar
Member Since December, 2005

Joined: July 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 21307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A realistic discusion of the coming Health Plan
    Posted: August 11 2009 at 9:11am
Yes, we have heard  whispers of lists and conspiracies and elders terrified they will be left to die. And then we have official people saying how terribly silly, of course it won't be that bad? Look at Canada and U.K.? Well, there's a good one.  Everyone finally will get decent health care. Will they? Before this whizzes through with opponents being glared at- what is the research on this? Given our current finances- is this a good or bad idea?

Okay Reality Check- Canadian and verbal. What is your first hand observation being a Canadian citizen and user of the health plan as to how good it is? And for that matter other user in Canada and U.K. Of all times, this time you could truly contribute some useful data. Tell us of the good stuff about Canada and its health care.

Are you suffering from cattleyard medicine or is it pretty good? We need to know since it appears our plan is about to duplicate it. As we plunge into the abyss of socialized mediciian in the middle of a recession, how much bang for our buck (and by that way where are the bucks coming from) are we as aging baby boomers gonna get. And young people too?

Will it be better or worse? If is worse... why are we changing it?

Surely you all in Canadian must have some stories of health care. Please tell us? Should we embrace a plan like yours?

Medclinician
Back to Top
AandEmommy View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: July 28 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEmommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2009 at 2:18pm
Medclinician, would you please clarify what you mean when you say " socialized medicine."  I think it is a wonderful idea to have a thread that realistically discussed the Health Care Plan.  However unless we begin to disagregate the plan into it's components, I don't believe we will get very far.  Some topics I would enjoy hearing opinions on:

-How would the plan effect premiums and co-pays if you choose to keep your insurance? (mine have doubled in the last three years)

-How would the insurance exchange work, and are there things we can do to make that idea more effective?

- What will the next 10 years be like if we do not make any changes to the current system.  Medicare will be insolvent in 7 years.  What is the plan after that? 

-How did we end up witht the current system of subsidies for health insurance companies, and how do we get out of it?

What would adding a "public option" really do?

Thanks!


Back to Top
Wolfmanjack View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: April 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfmanjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2009 at 2:29pm
99% of all the talk about the health care plan online and everywhere else is nothing more then garbage.

Ha.. I have been trying to find out exactly what the plan means myself.. And yet there is very little real information about it. (Unless you want to sit down and read the entire thing yourself) And even then you need a damn lawyer to figure out what it really means.

Fankly i don't know if it will be better or worse.. I do have the sneaking suspicion that it will be better for the people based solely on the fact that Big pharma and insurance companies are against it. Those two groups of people have been raping the American people for far too long.  But that is conjecture on my part. IE The idea that anything that hurts those SOB's is good for us.. (More then likely a gut reaction.. And not totally rational.. But then again it only takes 1 family member to die because of the current system before you get a bit angry about it)

The system we have now protects DR's that over medicate and over charge.. For services that are not needed or are substandard. Yes we need a change.. Is this the right change ? I do not know..



"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
Arthur C. Clarke
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2009 at 6:46pm
As a Canandain
from personal experince
I never experince not getting treatment or long waits for needed treatment
 
I had to wait eight weeks for a referral to a specialist for gallbladder but If I required emediate treatment I could just go to the hospital for treatment
and surgery . no waiting list
 
In a perfect system I would not have to had waited.  But if I required surgery quickly I would of got it .  I needed time to get ready forthe idea of surgery so It worked out
 
 
My mother needed heart surgery and the first doctor turned her down 
now she was eighty three and had previous surgery
the doctor stated that she would not recover well ,
well no ine tells my mother no so she got a appointemnt with a heart specialist who said
 
yes
well she never recovered well and suffered not becaus eof lack of treatment
but because she was to sick to have the surgery and had other conditions
 
This would be the argument that elderly are refused treatment
I never meet anyone refused treatment , they  may be told they wont reocover well from surgery after eighty , but that depends on how sich they are and even those find doctors who will preform the surgeries l  
 
I cant see the American getting the same system as you would have to dismantle the system you have , as thoses insurance monies would have to go into the system to make it work
 
We have a one tier system and we fight against any for of two tier systems
 
Our doctor make enough money
hardly broke
sorry guys
 
I as a Canandian I am amazed you dont have our system
 
We dont let non canandians use it , I mean Illegals , they have to pay
but even that I have been told is less than you pay for services out of pocket  
 
My brother died of  complications  of kidney failure and he had high quality care the whole time even nurses who went to his house and that was covered
they woud weekly check his blood pressure  sugar and and diet plan . .  it was part of a umbrella of  services his hospital admission he went home with a plan of treatment and services lined up and nurses in place
When  he died he had a nurse around the clock in intensive care . one nurse on duty for him only and her breaks even covered .
 
and of course no charge
actually there were some bills for some things not covered . 18.00 in total
repeat test in a short period of time are not always covered . 
In the Sates he would of gone broke
self employed no private healthcare but he had alot of personal assets
so he would of had to pay out of pocket for the expences
 
I remembr once watching Law and Order and they had a character who was a lawyer who had a stroke and had used up his insurance and now was handicapped and living on the streets
 
We dont use up our insurance , he would of gotten more rehabiltaion and would at least ended up in housing or fully recovered .    
That character showed how easily that can happen to  American
One the character was hardworking and never would of expected to be on the streets
 
It would be a huge commitment to change to our sytem s 
 
 
 
 
  
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2009 at 6:52pm
Socialized medicine verses Universal Heath care
Everyone entilted to receive universal healthcare
(except illegal aliens )
As a person with assets I would never want to live without universal healthcare
Only the poor can afford it
if you have nothing you have nothing to lose
 
Its the middle calss and the wealthy who would benifit
never worring that you will lose your house if you get cancer or lose your job or be told you have a preexisting condition  
 
You guys dont get it . the poor are Ok in the old system it is the rich and middle class who would benifit
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2009 at 6:55pm
PS the women with the brain tumour in thoses comercial
 is getting razed in Cananda
seems she only had a cyst not a tumour and not cancer
but your insurance companies are wining and dining her
She is on the hot seat here
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3872
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:23pm
Debracanice
 
You are very brave to post. The Truth is not something some will accept. It is much easier to believe in a conspiracy theory.

There are many here who value our neighbors to the north, and consider you as friend, not as oppressive marxist converts.  The staunch support as an in country ally is also much appreciated both Iraq and Afghanistan (Not Exactly Popular).

You have a system that works, and that the people like (Bravo) and you even managed to reduce the stresses of healthcare and going through a healthcare crisis. We know your system is not perfect (Perfect World).

It is kind of funny (Not Really) hearing about the Women with brain cancer.

Nothing wrong with a good dose of the Truth.

Here its all about deception, fear, and belief in deception, and if you dont tow the line they will scream or bully you into line. Amazing I know

Anyway bravo on defending your point of view, you have been through some nasty threads hear on the subject.

SmileSmile
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
Wolfmanjack View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: April 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfmanjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 4:26am
you want it explained .. Watch this
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xa3872_keith-olbermann-on-health-care-refo_news
"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
Arthur C. Clarke
Back to Top
newgirl View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2009
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote newgirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 5:58am
Here's another topic that kind of overwhelms me.  I don't even really know where to begin to look to get an understanding of it.  Does this mean people with no insurance now (me) would have insurance?  Because that seems like it would be a good thing.... ?
Back to Top
Wolfmanjack View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: April 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfmanjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 6:28am
yes.. you would have medical coverage with the new coverage.. Everyone would. That is unless the idiots torpedo the bill. 
"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
Arthur C. Clarke
Back to Top
newgirl View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2009
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote newgirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 6:30am
Thanks wolfmanjack!
Back to Top
Mary008 View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: June 22 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 5769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mary008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 10:26am
Back to Top
Wolfmanjack View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: April 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfmanjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 7:03pm
Thanks Mary .. damn formatting on this site is a bit annoying at times :)

BTW everyone should watch that video link she riposted for me. It really does sum it up better then anyone else i have seen.
"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
Arthur C. Clarke
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 7:26pm
 
Your never get the Canandian system the Ameircans insurance comapies will never let that happen
 
I dont know what your new healthcare system is
 
What ours is in a nutshell
 
Its not insurance but a basic right to healthcare
We have a healthcard . that quarantees you the right to medical care .
drugs are not covered unless your on welfare or a senior then they are covered
There is a two dollar charge per perscrioption on the goverment drug plan   , some drug stores absorbe the cost ,
dental coverage is not covered
 
drugs given to you in hospital are covered ,
under some circumstances  drugs are covered for out of the hosppital ( My brother had expensive medications covered by a special program , still I had to go to A DIFFERENT HOSPITAL AND get the drugs and bring them to him , still these were drugs that cost a few thousand dollars.   .   
and all tests are covered , except under specal circumstances , to many to often and then the cost are small and may be required very small costs  affordable 
People do buy insurance for drug plans or dental either through work or indiviuduals
insurance can get you a private room but not better healthcare
Its not unusal for a person to have no private insurance but the hospital only have a private  room so you get it no exta cost
 
My doctor refers me to specialist when I require them , there is usaully a wait , of six weeks
but I may see my doctor during that time , or I may go to emergency if I become sick while waiting .  My doctor does try to not refer me to a specialist if I dont need one . but neverless I get all the referals i need , He is not penalized . He is expected to make sound decisions of when to refer and when to treat me himself ,  He is expected not to put my health at risk which would only add to the medical cost but not to over refer.  he has to make sound judgements .  I have never felt that I was refused a referral . 
 
 
 
Our system could use extra cash
 
I hate the welfare system in Cananda and I feel it is abused too easily and would love to see the goverment go after welfare fraud and use that money for healthcare
 
Its so common that people work under the table and collect welfare , no checks , lets not invade their privacy
 
If I had my way I would flood the internet with a push for the goverment to overhaul the welfare system .
 
I want thaty money to take care of the elderly in their time of need
hate welfare fraud but love Universal healthcare
heathy people work and are part of the system and are contributating memebers of society
 
Back to Top
Mahshadin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3872
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2009 at 8:16pm
Welfare can be a big problem, and enforcement difficult.
 
It needs to be a bridge not an island.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
Back to Top
debracanice View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: April 29 2009
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Points: 260
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debracanice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2009 at 8:48pm
Yes I am sick of welfare fraud
Its horrible . you get couples who claim to be single parents
and men who work under the table while collecting welfare
makes me sick
some even get disability which is more
There is no checks and balances and the welfare department dont police themselves as to payments and checking to see is the women are really single parents
 
I am a landord and is not un common for most of my tenants to be collecting
and working
I get women who claim to be single parents to welfare who are living with the child father and they dont work . He works they are his kids and she collects . common
especially in small towns  
  
When they piss me off I report them  most of them move and tell the welfare I was justlying because they own rent .  They still rarely dont get cut off
Our welfare system sticks
i dont know if that different in the US
I want that money in healthcare
You know what I bet it can happen . If people protect the lack of checks and balances in the welfare system
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Wolfmanjack View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: April 25 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wolfmanjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2009 at 9:38pm

"The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion."
Arthur C. Clarke
Back to Top
Dr.Who View Drop Down
Advisor Group
Advisor Group


Joined: January 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 392
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Who Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 8:40am
That is not correct. No sizable portion of the right objects to saving people.

Another difference is the left object to a constitutional spending of tax dollars and the right objects to an unconstitutional use of tax dollars.

You see the constitution is very clear that protecting the country from threat is allowable and congress did authorize the president to go to war in Iraq. There are plenty of things wrong with the action but it was constitutional.

Meanwhile the constitution does not authorize the use of tax dollars to buy things for part of the population no matter how important the thing being bought is.

"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."
--James Madison

"I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the General Government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit."
-- President Grover Cleveland vetoing a bill for charity relief (18 Congressional Record 1875 [1877]

"I cannot find any authority in the Constitution for public charity. [To approve the measure] would be contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution and subversive to the whole theory upon which the Union of these States is founded."
-- President Franklin Pierce's 1854 veto of a measure to help the mentally ill.

So what are we to do since the constitution does not allow for charity?

Well obviously all the people who are complaining that there are people out there without health care should donate generously to worthy causes. You see the constitutions does not allow a private citizen to declare war but it does allow him to save his fellow man from lack of health care.
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Chief Moderator
Chief Moderator
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 39611
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 11:22am
   I was born and spent the first thirty years of my life in the UK, and I think universal healthcare is something any country that wants to call itself civilized should aspire to. The insurance companies are scared that their monopoly is about to end and the inevitable misinformation is coming out. The "death panel" quote from Palin is one that particularly galls me, as that's exactly how I would characterize what happens when insurance companies here routinely refuse to pay for life saving treatments. Wake up people - your fellow citizens are allowed to die here when cash becomes an issue, and that's a system that definitely needs to be changed. Watch the movie "John Q" - I work in healthcare and that's just how it works. In Britain, the criteria for heart transplants doesn't have anything to do with your bank balance or your credit rating.
    I read that someone recently commented how Stephen Hawking would undoubtedly have been allowed to die from ALS if he was British and the National Heath Service (NHS) had been responsible for his care. Where to start with this one? Firstly, Stephen Hawking is British (his voice synthesizer has the American accent. Duh...) and secondly, following the article - published in Investor's Business Daily - he has credited the NHS with actually saving his life.
   The wait times that are thrown around are no longer than the ones my wife and I have experienced in the US for surgeries. Recently a friend of mine in Britain suffered a serious riding accident and came out of it with six breaks in her pelvis, four broken ribs and a cracked collarbone. She was stabilized in hospital after emergency treatment and transported to another hospital within days for surgery on her pelvis. Following the surgery she had excellent afer care and therapy, and after several weeks in hospital she was sent home with follow up therapy to get her back on her feet. Her cost for care that she rated as excellent? Nothing out of her pocket. What's wrong with a system that takes care of you like that?
    Although the NHS is not without it's problems (someone please point me in the direction of the perfect system) the WHO ranks British healthcare as 18th in the world, while the US is way back in 37th place. The relative cost is two to three times higher in the States as compared to other countries - something directly attributable to the lack of competition here.
   What we're talking about here is the same money minded thinking that got Wall Street into the mess we're bailing them out of now. Bottom line is that big business looks after it's shareholders - patients come second to profits. The US system was designed for the healthy. Get too sick and they'll drop you. Have a pre-existing condition? Your copay just sky rocketed, if you can get coverage at all. And people are fighting to keep them in charge of the health of themselves and their families? Go figure...
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Hotair View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: March 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 667
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2009 at 11:57am
Very well said Jacksdad.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down