Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese


Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Albertís medical tents
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic

Albertís medical tents

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:06pm
The basic premise behind the neighborhood centers is not that they would provide a major amount of care but that the more people you can recruit into taking ownership of the problem the less they are likely to overwhelm the system. That is the major mistake that I see happening in the government response to date.

A volunteer public health corps modeled on the civil defense corps is ideal. People are more likely to be involved if it means taking responsibility for those near and dear to them. The more people you can educate ahead of the event the fewer people you will have clogging the system out of sheer terror.

Public health corps workers can be plugged in anywhere into the system based on ability and willingness. Those serving, get priority for treatment.
Back to Top
Albert View Drop Down
Admin
Admin


Joined: April 24 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 38911
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:06pm

I suppose the problem is solved.  It seems like we're much more prepared than what I thought.   

 
  
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:16pm
No way are we prepare because the people aren't prepared and they will be the downfall of every plan put in place. The government is afraid of panic so they are not educating the masses. Huge mistake! People who know what to expect will not panic. There may not be the amount of panic but there sure will be emotionally, physically and even intellectually overwhelmed people. There will be panic and a whole lot of violence when people run out of the basics for survival. Then what?

There should be community service messages every day and that is not happening. We may have already had an initial outbreak event in the US and not even know it. Would it surprise any of us if this started tomorrow? Not me. Not that I think it is going to, i am just saying that it wouldn't surprise me at all. Not one of my neighbors is ready and I have been talking about preparedness for months now to at least 10 different families plus the employees in my husbands store. If the government and their own physicians won't acknowledge this why should they believe me?


Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:23pm

Great post, Standingfirm.

Albert, Is it possible we can take this formidable forum to a "make it happen now" level?. Can we move now to -- Pre-Pandemic and educate? Paper America now with steps to prepare and protect? Move to quarantine when the time comes? And, have the medical triage response teams in place when AI strikes.

For me it is black and white: everything is measured in terms of Pre-Pandemic -- Post-Pandemic.

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:40pm
Thanks for your post, frisky,

You summarized where things are better that I could. I feel like we are both more and less on top of this than most people think. I know that didn't make any sense, but perhaps you know what I mean.   more on top of it in htat we have probed, in exhaustive detail, the limitations of our system, and less in that we haven't come up wth ways to overcome it all.

It sounds like your plan for alternate care sites is ahead of other cities, and ahead of us. I haven't heard that we have a list of volunteers, for instance, and I don't think we have supplies of ORS. We but then we haven't had a joint hospital and community planning meeting in a while.   We are still concerned about our supplier's ability to maintain food and O2 deliveries, to say nothing of meds. I'm sure you all can see that it's hard, because in planning for medical care you are dependent on the timely function of so many other businesses.

garderner
Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Advisor Group
Advisor Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:42pm
Doug: In a serious pandemic the churches will have two ways to go. Either way they will end up empty.

The same rules apply to all gathering places.I don't think this virus has any prejudices.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:50pm
scotty,

you're fun. A little bad, but fun.   I'd like to have a pint with you sometime.

gardener
Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Advisor Group
Advisor Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:59pm
I didn't realise you did such things over there. Its the universal solution to all ills. I thought you guys had bars. Do you have proper pubs?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 4:33pm
A lot bad, I'd say.  But definitely fun!
Beth
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 4:59pm
So you change IV tubing every 12 hours.  14 sets per person per week.  And two litres of fluid per day.  14 litres of fluid.  Find the local neighbourhood drug addict and ask them to show you how to stick the needle in a vein.  No thanks, Id rather  try to figure that out for myself.  Much safer.
Now all I need is a source for the tubing/fluid bags.  Any ideas?
Beth
 
PS. And the address of the local welder for some oxygen.  Possibly a catheter supplier as well.
 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 6:17pm
Where can we get iv kits?  I know they have emerg. kits stockpiled outside NYC.  Could we get them mailed to us?
................................................................
 
ER Doc, I'm thinking about entire families.  I would rather be at home.  We have flu kits in the bedroom closets with everything except iv.
 
But if I had little ones and knew I was too ill to care for them I would be happy for that high school.
Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Advisor Group
Advisor Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 11:47pm
Tubing can be had from DIY and Marine Stores and you can probably find Catheters in the decent BDSM stores. Also enema stuff.

Why the DIY Catheter. Have they banned that too? Why not try the local pharmacy?

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 4:32am
    Beth, if you are interested in home care, I suggest you learn more about oral rehydration salts. Look at rehydrate.org. ORS functions the world over in place of IVs.

If you are interested in home O2, remember what I said: a large (the really big ones on a dolly that are like 5 feet long and maybe 10 inches diameter) only lasts about 52 hours at 2 liters per minute, which is a relatively modest flow. If they really need it, patients are probably going to need it for longer than 2 days.   And how would you decide when to use it? you'd need a pulse oximeter. If you wait until the patient turns blu enough for you to notice, you are likely to need a lot more than 2 liters.

I just don't think it's practical too keep tank O2 at home. the people who use it chronically have oxygen concentrators. You can get reconditioned ones that run up to 5 LPM for about 500.00. Please note that I'm not recommending this, nor am I doing this for myself or my family. Part of me thinks it's irresponsible of me to even mmention it. I think that if you need oxygen, you are likely to deteriorate, and should be seen by a professional. if you show up at a care center or hospital too late, you may get triaged to palliative care only.

Scotty, we do have a decent pub or two over here. You just have to go searching for them. The search it self can be, well, rewarding.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 4:59am
Thanks Gardener.  I've looked up oxygen already and it doesn't seem practical for the reasons you have said, and the storage problems re explosion.  I think this further reinforces my determination to quarantine so that we don't have anyone with flu.  However, anything I can get reasonably easily to help with possible sickness would be reassuring to have.
 
Are re-hydration salts really as effective as IV drips?  I have loads and some baby cups and bottles to administer them if the person couldn't sit up. 
Is a catheter just a tube (and a bucket).  If so, what diameter?  Doesn't it have some sort of smoothed edge? Do you throw them away or sterilise them?  How often do you need to change them?  It would be as well to know, even just for reassurance.
Beth
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 5:03am
What kind of catheter, beth? to me catheter just means tube.   

Yes, all medical catheters inserted into the body need to have rounded egdes. IV cathters are single use items. In addition to the dfficulty sterilizing them. IV catheters have a needle in their lumen to allow insertion, and you can't really put the needle back into the catheter to reuse without screwing it up.

If a person can take anything by mouth, ORS can work as well asn IV fluids. Even with vomiting, a tablespoon every 15 minutes will allow a person to absorb enough to rehydrate them.   You just have to keep up with thier losses from diarrhea. Rehydration with ORS done right can be very labor intensive. IV's are a crutch for those of us who don't have the time to sit at the bedside with a spoon. Nasogastric administration of ORS slowly over time is another option.

If someone is too out of it to prevent choking or breathing too hard to swallow, that's when you absolutely need IV fluids. At that point, you really need professional care.

gardener
    
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 5:28am
Thank you gardener.  Beth
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 9:33am
Gardener, I have a 5 year old that takes breathing treatments <pulmacort & Albuterol>. It is my understanding that pulmacort helps heal and rebuild the lungs. Just curios, if he does get sick <BF>or any other family member, God Forbid, is this possibly a medication that can be given to help, should I stockpile? Any advice will certainly be appreciated.
Back to Top
Dlugose View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: July 28 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 277
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Scotty Scotty wrote:

I didn't realise you did such things over there. Its the universal solution to all ills. I thought you guys had bars. Do you have proper pubs?
What do you know over there about America anyways?  Varies a lot around the country.  Here in Boston, where the Irish population would make it maybe the 2nd largest city in Ireland, not to mention Scots and others, we have the freshest Guinness available, and in some neighborhoods the Irish pubs have stiff competition for each other and for the best performers.  I suppose it might still be a safe haven for those in political trouble overseas.  So this is a fine place to hang out and have a pint!
Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Advisor Group
Advisor Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 9:51am
Standard piercing needles might do it. Surgical steel, hollow, purpose made for insertion through the skin, clinically clean, with or without plastic sleeve, any size from 1mm up to 5mm. Get them from any piercing studio.

So all you need now is some alcohol, some gloves, five years intensive medical training and away you go. Oh, I forgot to mention the risks. Actually there are probably too many to mention so I'll just stick with septicaemia and law suits. If you thought you didn't like lawyers, wait till you meet septicaemia.
Back to Top
Dlugose View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: July 28 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 277
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 10:05am
Originally posted by standingfirm standingfirm wrote:


A volunteer public health corps modeled on the civil defense corps is ideal. People are more likely to be involved if it means taking responsibility for those near and dear to them. The more people you can educate ahead of the event the fewer people you will have clogging the system out of sheer terror.
The Medical Reserve Corps now is up to at least 469 units. To locate a unit near you see http://www.medicalreservecorps.gov/HomePage If there is not a unit there already, there are instructions for forming one.  You are expected of course to keep in touch with public health officials, community leaders, and provide some basic training courses.  They will train you for free so that your members are familiar with setting up a temp shelter for something like giving shots in any kind of outbreak, handing psychological stress, the FEMA emergency structure which is not shared with the same terminology for police, fire depts, EMTs, medical people etc.  You need the group to be ready for general purpose health disastes, but you could invite in all the trainers you want to make sure your unit is especially prepared for a pandemic.
 

Daniel Mackie with the Washoe County District Health Department said the state needs more volunteers for its Medical Reserve Corps chapters.

His comments came during a discussion on building surge capacity when hospitals are inundated with patients during disasters.

The chapters, which were created after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, are made up of volunteers who are either from the medical community or citizens who donate their time and expertise throughout the year and during a time of community need.

These volunteers can help with simple events such as assisting with school vaccinations.

Currently, there are three reserve chapters in Nevada, in Washoe and Clark counties and in Carson City.


Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down