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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

BANDS OF GANGS!!
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    Posted: December 08 2006 at 2:05pm

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Gangs may already be formed, if you call groups of friends that may band together and seek help resorting to force and justifing it as right becouse their family is in need a gang. The history of other famines reminds us of this. We need only to look at the past to know the actions of others. Famine seems to be the main real fear, to many mouths and to little knowhow on how to grow and raise it.
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A reminder that if you plan to store food . You need to find a way to hide the food.

Build it now, Under stairs , fake heating vents. Hidden in extra water heaters . Old vaccums ,money and jewery ,     
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What concerns me too is with all the wars we have had. How many military vets will join together and make renegade malitia's. They are combat trained, I'm a 13 year vet myself. Some could join a positive cause too.
 
I can imagin some will want to get back into the high adrenaline game again. It's addictive.
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Interesting???? Is any place going to be safe???
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Who knows the vets could be a big player in taking out the gangs. It's hard to predict, and that's if it got that bad.
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there are already many gangs in all the major and minor cities in the US.  All they have to do is get hungry, however they will probably be the first to succumb due to lack of illegal drugs, poor nutrition, and killing each other first. JMHO
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I read somewhere that police will be ordered to seach vacant homes for food also.
Bill, I'm old and tired and I'm about ready to start breaking legs over that addictive behavior.
Not really.
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Originally posted by containment containment wrote:

Interesting???? Is any place going to be safe???
 
 
If you put forth a small degree of effort I believe any neighborhood can secure it's perimiter and protect their assets from unwelcomed intruders.  There will be plenty of sheep for the wolves to pursue, just don't present yourself as one and you chances for peace and quiet go way up.
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THANKYOU!
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Bill 100 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by maysday maysday wrote:

I read somewhere that police will be ordered to seach vacant homes for food also.
Bill, I'm old and tired and I'm about ready to start breaking legs over that addictive behavior.
Not really.
 
maysday, I think most vets would be for a positive cause, and channel that addictive behavior in that direction.
 
If we have some time on this pandemic, this summer I plan on building a false wall for my prepps.
 
Those that have a garage could just panel over their shelves. Make it look like a finished wall.
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Put a sign in your window that says bird flu or cross bones. Paint your doors red. Whatever will make them think that going to that house is not a good idea. Maybe put a dummie or manequin in your yard with some ketchup on it so it looks like it got shot (from a distance they wom't be able to tell it is not a real person). If you shoot a crow or another bird leave it in the yard. Most of all if you appear weak you are, if you appear like a badass you are. Most criminals don't want to deal with someone that will fight back.
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If someone comes to your house to get your food. Do you feel there going to be nice about it?Say excuse me sir...May I please search your home for food? What are you going to do? Just stand there and let them come in?? I dont think so...Your going to protect yourself,and shoot them???Get real about your wall??? This thing may get real ugly????
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Best bet is to get your family together,and take turns standing watch with your bazooka gun,or machine guns.. Someone will have them.. This world will get real ugly,and Mr.Rational your credit card aint gonna be worth ****.
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I have a few big guns and a few big dogs.I well watch out for my neighbors and myself with there help of course.We well need to band togather as small tribes to make it.Each having a job to do and doing it.
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I have moved to the country and I am isolated - petrol will be the first thing to go and they will have a long walk if they want my stash
 
It will be like katrina and all that happened there
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I believe if you show a group of thugs some fire power, there is a good chance they will back off. But if you show a group of renegade vets fire power they would see that as a challenge. But I believe most vets will want to help protect their neighborhoods. Then there are always some that will go the other way.
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Bill100: Turf Wars, territories that can be respected or challenged? Scary.
 
Linda-ann: Old vaccums ,money and jewery GREAT place to hide money and jewery, just got to remember not to donate to the goodwill without removing the bag (stash). LOL  
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this is what consirns me!     the first couple of weeks are going to be ok.  most people have enought food at home AND ( the people not preparaid) raiding the local stores (raiding guns and ammo too) Weeks 3 & 4 will be REALY REALY BAD     after most people have exsosted there food supplys. thats when Looting , Break ins , and assalt will happen.    Like that other person sayed ( sorry dont remember your name, it is a good idea) hang a black flag from your window , anyting , hang a sign on your front door begging for some one to bring you food and some medicen couse you have lost some one in your house. anything to make them not to want to go into your house.        next hide your dang food   exsept just a few cans of food, and half box of corn flakes    ( this is incase the cops or army come to your house..... YOU REALY DONT WANT TO SHOOT AT THEM!!!!!!!!)     If some guy comes    trying to break in    WELL you will have to decide  the answer to that qaustion???         The weeks after that .... the Local,State and Federal help will start showing up, with some food and water supplys ----not much tho--- even the Government does not have enought food to feed 300 Million people      what thay do have will be rationed out     we thank there were LONG lines to get on the busses out of New Orleans   wate till you see the food and water lines.    We will see Marshal Law, We will see Armed people roveing around looking for anything    food,water,guns,anything exspensive ,,,rings , dimonds,money, and for God sake dont forget our GIRLS, WIFES, SISTERS,MOTHERS    sadly thay will be a target. Make them girls look homely , ugly, anything  not to be noticed, if thay have to leave the protection of your house.       well I have to go . more on this latter!!!     Remember there will be a time to use your fire power....... and there will be a time not to use it and keep a cool head.
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One of the main parts of being prepared is defense. I don't care whether you believe in guns or not. They are a necessary prep item. (Along with the training.) contrary to popular belief, gun control increased crime and creates a victim base.   

The larger the city the more problem you will have. This will happen when ever the infrastructure is taxed to much. New Orleans is a good example. Just take away the flooding.

Where did the looting start first? The stores. I thinks the same will happen again. You will see the thugs carrying away plasma TV's and stuff like that in the beginning. Most of the killings were thugs killing thugs. They won't start really looking at the houses till the 2 week.

The areas that blocked off their streets and defended themselves faired quit well.

My local health dept told me that FEMA advised them that since we are so rural we are looking a 30 to 45 days before they could get to us. I would double that. If you have to rely of FEMA to feed you you will have to stand in line with the rest of the sick people. They will even protect you. At one of their camps.

For those of you that live in one of the "Peoples Republic" city / states I don't know what to tell you, other than to leave not, or have a place to run to.

Another note for those who are still living on the plant Disney. There is NO place in the constitution or the bill of right that states that the government has a responsibility to protect you, other than the borders. There has never been a Supreme court ruling that stated that the government has a responsibility to protect you. Yes they take your tax's and say they will, but if they don't your are just SOL.

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Containment, something else that was pointed out in that Katrina journal entry that someone posted on a thread here, was that mentally, people get mad at those that have prepared.  It's like, "I'm starving over here.  You have food, you're being a selfish asshole."  If they sit and stew on it long enough, and they're going to go after those that are sitting there with generator's running, watching TV and drinking ice cold tea. 
I'm saying that to point out to you, that even if you prep with the idea in mind that you can continue to "live as you live" you need to think of those around you and how you're coming across to them.  The resentments and the anger, especially if they're parents and have children going hungry, are going to push a lot of folks over the edge.  My advice is use the generators the first week or two to get food pickled from the freezers, to use drills to put up your window barracades (I'm doing all the bottom floor windows to decrease intrusion points) and to handle last minute things, then plan to go quiet.  Buy blackout curtains to block the light from your lanterns, candles and other things at night.  If you have the equipment to watch TV and radio, keep it low.  You don't want to stand out in any way, as that will make you a target.
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I wonder how many drug dealers,crooked chemists,are aware of the power they could command in a situation like this they would have a army at there disposal,addicts willing to do anything to get that fix,so as we get ready for a possible pandemic are some of the dealers also preparing on a different level to us.   
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Remember, in every group or gang there is always a leader. If there is trouble, then that's the one you want to identify and deal with first. Hopefully, the rest will then turn and run. If not, then try to identify the 2nd leader of the gang.
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Take them all out and let god sort them out lolI spent  2 tours in Nam and ready to do what it takes to stop the bad guys from hurting anyone!!Americans are tough people and well do what it takes to make it!
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I truly fear gang violence will be #1.  There is random acts of violence now and with lack of law enforcement gangs will become wild animals on the hunt. The question for me is how do I respond to defending my property and myself against a kid?  I feel criminals are a sub-culture of society and cannot be treated in a humane way.  These gang kids have no morals and no sense of right or wrong. I won't know until the moment comes. We just had 12 kids arrested as a home envasion gang and two of them were so young they couldn't show their face on the news. The rest were about 17-18 yrs. Picture looking out the window to see cocky, intent to cause harm gang on the way to your house....
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Originally posted by retiredcopper retiredcopper wrote:

Remember, in every group or gang there is always a leader. If there is trouble, then that's the one you want to identify and deal with first. Hopefully, the rest will then turn and run. If not, then try to identify the 2nd leader of the gang.
 
That's exactly what I would do, alot of times the others will be just followers. They could become disorganized, feel they have no direction without leadership. They could panic and make mistakes, so you can get that easy shot. Even feel so disadvantaged that they run away. I would definitely target the leader, it could make the rest ducks in a barrel. Plus I would change from defence to attack. I would try to take out as many as possible because they could come back and not to loot. You could become a goal for them, to bring back the confidence that you took. That is just what I would do and I don't think it will get that bad.
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that's what I like about solar,there's NO noise level.
During our last power loss the community's gate was open my solar lights outside were visible. Folks coming home said YEA WE"VE GOT LIGHTS followed by oh, it's D's house it's the solar. NOW everyone here has solar lights. It's truly wonderful to see the changes.
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I'm not a big fan of the lone home type of defense. Try to make defense packs with the neighbors. Those that did that in NO faired OK. They REFUSED the police order to take down the barricades and to evacuate. They were OK.

Yes, if the infrastructure is down for last over 6 months the gangs will be a problem. But lets separate gang from mob violence.

The mob will be those that refuse to prepare, know that you have, their family is hungry and or sick. They will get like minded people to get your stuff for their family. Their term will be short. They will eventually take their family to the place the government tell them to.

The gang will most consist of the normal thug. They will be a threat as soon as the infrastructure goes down, and will remain a threat through out the incident. In the beginning they will hit the stores, and the easy pickings. Their first targets will be the other thugs. At the 30 day mark they will start looking at the will defended places. Mostly because they will be desperate. But remember They will be getting sick also. If the infrastructure is down for over 3 months THEN you will have to worry about the "road worrier" type gangs.

If you are worried about your women folk, teach them how to shoot and get them their OWN gun.   That goes for the entire family. For the younger ones (11 and above) it may only be a 22. But it beats chucking rocks.

      
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AMEN!!!!
My older daughter is a marksman with her 30 aught 6. My youger daughter prefers the 243. She also is a marksman with rifle AND crossbow. Silent and deadly. We all have bear bows.
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This has been a big concern for me as my DH is in law enforcement. I will have to defend my family while he is out defending yours, so......
For Christmas I am the proud new owner of a very pretty girl that is soon to become my best friend. Only 5 shots but teenage son is ready with the shotgun. My family is calling me Annie Oakley, but I have to be able to take care of my own.
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Originally posted by Bill 100 Bill 100 wrote:

Originally posted by retiredcopper retiredcopper wrote:

Remember, in every group or gang there is always a leader. If there is trouble, then that's the one you want to identify and deal with first. Hopefully, the rest will then turn and run. If not, then try to identify the 2nd leader of the gang.
 
That's exactly what I would do, alot of times the others will be just followers. They could become disorganized, feel they have no direction without leadership. They could panic and make mistakes, so you can get that easy shot. Even feel so disadvantaged that they run away. I would definitely target the leader, it could make the rest ducks in a barrel. Plus I would change from defence to attack. I would try to take out as many as possible because they could come back and not to loot. You could become a goal for them, to bring back the confidence that you took. That is just what I would do and I don't think it will get that bad.
 
I would do this if I was alone or in a group, there would be no difference. A group would be nice, but I would keep the back door in sight. As to a Mob I don't believe there will be any knocking on my door. I can see a Mob targeting a group, alot of mouths would require a bigger score than one person, or one house. I see it just like looting, they hit stores, not a individuals pantry. But I don't think it would get that bad.
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I like the one about the flag on a window,or a sign that says "BEWARE OF BIRD FLU HERE"
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Originally posted by Bill 100 Bill 100 wrote:

Originally posted by Bill 100 Bill 100 wrote:

Originally posted by retiredcopper retiredcopper wrote:

Remember, in every group or gang there is always a leader. If there is trouble, then that's the one you want to identify and deal with first. Hopefully, the rest will then turn and run. If not, then try to identify the 2nd leader of the gang.
 
That's exactly what I would do, alot of times the others will be just followers. They could become disorganized, feel they have no direction without leadership. They could panic and make mistakes, so you can get that easy shot. Even feel so disadvantaged that they run away. I would definitely target the leader, it could make the rest ducks in a barrel. Plus I would change from defence to attack. I would try to take out as many as possible because they could come back and not to loot. You could become a goal for them, to bring back the confidence that you took. That is just what I would do and I don't think it will get that bad.
 
I would do this if I was alone or in a group, there would be no difference. A group would be nice, but I would keep the back door in sight. As to a Mob I don't believe there will be any knocking on my door. I can see a Mob targeting a group, alot of mouths would require a bigger score than one person, or one house. I see it just like looting, they hit stores, not a individuals pantry. But I don't think it would get that bad.


And why is that? Do you not think that those stores will run out quickly? I've worked in a grocery store and I know how fast you need to restock the shelves or they will become empty. And that is when everyone is just getting a thing or two. When people have nothing, they will be grabbing whatever they can and the stores will be empty in so little time it will be shocking.
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Originally posted by dustyboots dustyboots wrote:

This has been a big concern for me as my DH is in law enforcement. I will have to defend my family while he is out defending yours, so......
For Christmas I am the proud new owner of a very pretty girl that is soon to become my best friend. Only 5 shots but teenage son is ready with the shotgun. My family is calling me Annie Oakley, but I have to be able to take care of my own.


that sounds great dusty. Don't forget the training. I have found that it is the exceptional husband that can train his wife. So if you need outside training don't feel bad.
    
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David, you missed the point, my post was not about stores. I used stores as a example. I believe a Mob would target a group before an individual. Just like looters target stores and not a individuals pantry.
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Gangs- everyone should remember that during Katrina and it's aftermath,that the police did as much or more lutting as the people did. The police are already an organized gang. Johnray1
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David K---Bill 100 must be a cop,because that is the way that they are trained to take care of riots and he is also correct about what he said. Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2006 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

Gangs- everyone should remember that during Katrina and it's aftermath,that the police did as much or more lutting as the people did. The police are already an organized gang. Johnray1


That is not entirely true. Yes some police (I use that term very loosely) did loot. But the examples were few. Most of those that did loot deserted also. But more than 1000 stayed on the job and preformed well.

Also they are suppose to be organized. However, if your local department is bad, then fell free to join and SHOW us how is suppose to be done.
    
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I live iin a small town.  No gangs here, and no major criminal activity.  The only problems are going to with older people who live in the complex. I have formed an alliance with a man who is very heavily armed and who has a wealth of firepower and knows how to use it. He is going to help us take care of the property and to assist us in our survival.  We will buy some more solar panels and solar lighting. WE will have the washing machine and more water next week. 
 
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Sam's has good quality DEEP six cycle MARINE batteries to connect to the solar panels.
If any of you are thinking about the solar panels remember that you will need the deep 6 cycle marine batteries plus inverters and an ampere control. DO NOT tie this into your subpanel. When the lights come back on you could kill the linesman who's trying to get you up and running.
Happened here in FL after the first hurricane
Dr d
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2006 at 10:03pm
Alot of thos cops that were looting ...where not loot   thay were under orders to take guns and ammo . to keep it out of the hads of the Real Loots    
 
Rockhound
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Points: 4 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Froto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2006 at 10:25pm
I can't see the police looting. It makes sense that they were preventing criminals from taking the guns and ammo.
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Points: 8159 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2006 at 1:36am
For those of you who want to band together to survive- The American Indiams were the last people that I know of who banded together in order to survive and their method worked for thousands of years.But if you read history carefully,you will fine that indians lived in groups of 8-10 families most of the year.{Not as Hollywood would have us believe} Anymore and the resoruces ran out to quick and the area would become contaminated to quick. They did all meet in fully tribal get togethers 3 or 4 times a year,but the rest of the year,they were in groups of 8-10 families,I talked about the advantages and some of the disadvantaged above but I for got the most important reason and that is that any less than that and they could easily be wiped out by another tribes war parties,easily, plus with that many people to gether,there is always someone awake and there are enough people to defend themselves for practical purposes and enough people to do all of the work that is nessary to survive.Even the kids worded and were useful. If this "Bird Flu" does happen in a worse case senero,I think that this size group would do best. Even if they were members of much large tribes,they still spent most of the year in these 8-10 family groups. Johnray1
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Points: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill 100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2006 at 5:01am
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

David K---Bill 100 must be a cop,because that is the way that they are trained to take care of riots and he is also correct about what he said. Johnray1
 
Nop, not a cop, over 13 years military. I believe some of the police training might have come from the military. You always try to take out the enemies leadership, to put them at a disadvantage. Years ago the officers use to wear identifying uniforms, they stopped it because they became targets. One of the reasons for snipers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2006 at 8:17am
y'all can worry about the gangs if ya like...my first concern, however, is of a different nature.
I live in what is considered the largest inland port in the US. the city on the other side of the river is almost 3 times us in population. For some reasone, most citizens on the other side seem to think that our healthcare system is not only better, but free.
 
I'd hate to see what happens when the BF hits their city, and they try to force their way into this city to get to 'better' medical care.
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