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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic

Cash could run out in flu pandemic as ATMs go unst

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2006 at 1:20pm
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Polly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Polly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2006 at 1:33pm
Kparcell,

I agree with Bruss, your post is terrific and every American should read it.

Please don't apologize for it's length. It's well worth the read.
Open your eyes people!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2006 at 1:45pm
Thanks for teh great post kparcell!

Do you have any ideas how this will affect the value of stocks.  I'm guessing that large international companies will be affected but will not necessarily colapse whe the dollar does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kparcell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2006 at 6:55am
Thank you very much for the compliments on the long post above.

Anharra, unless parents home-teach and have no tv or internet, the choice is usually cheap products from China or tears, I know. I don't shop at Walmart because of how they treat women, but how can anybody blame parents for the situation today?

Prepared, I have very standard ideas of how currency markets relate to stocks, which depends on the particular currency and the particular stock market, but you know that is just one factor for stocks.   I also have the usual foreboding about panflu slamming stocks globally, but I can't bring myself to bet that millions die, and of course we hope to duck this bullet.

As for investments, I think third-world water development companies are excellent risks, both morally and financially, both short-term and long-term. My own dream is to establish human-powered water companies that pay their workers and finance micro-loans using their own scrip (local money). These would be self-sustaining, after initial seed-funding, and would continuously expand, creating resilient local marketplaces that deliver water and food resources to those who need them most. The micro-loans in my dream system would focus on art and agriculture.

The technologies and strategies are all tested and proven and I hope to personally implement and participate in such a project someday, although at the moment I am working on promoting the general concept to international funding agencies. I can't imagine a safer community than a human-powered WaterMoney community - resilient because autonomous, with enough local work and local food for everyone who wants it. Even highly developed communities might augment their water supply systems with such a strategy and so begin to move towards autonomy while solving the problems of hunger and risk from global economic crises.

I'm promoting this as a disaster preparedness and response strategy. Consider New Orleans, for instance. The US federal government plans to spend $200 billion on recovery there, and the approach they have settled on is the usual top-down response - the Army Corps of Engineers, Bechtel, Halliburton, Walmart, etc, are paid to rebuild the infrastructure and people then plug in. The result (as conceived currently) will be a city that will fall again to the next major storm that passes, and meanwhile minimum wage for workers at retailers and hotels, or better for suburbanites managing the monoculture infrastructure and dreaming of getting out before the flood. Instead, put people in the community to work building dikes and wetlands and fresh water resources, growing food that people actually eat right there. Build a true community from the bottom up. Doesn't that sound better? To me, it sounds like paradise, an actual new American Dream.

Fact check on the old American Dream: 1 in 32 spent time in jail in the US in 2005 (a record).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote diego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2006 at 6:04pm
do not accept anything given to you. that means trade, barter, cash etc. think about the smallpox infected blankets given to the indians. have on hand what you need now, at any cost.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2006 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by kparcell kparcell wrote:

Dispenser,

I hope you and your neighbors will cooperate to protect each other, as you suggest, but if things get to where there is looting, then those looters will likely include orphaned and starving children and parents trying to feed their kids - including some who are desparate because their supplies have been looted, I suppose. Will you and your neighbors cooperate to help the starving children? You can't mean that you will murder the hungry kids. So what's your plan?
 
No I do not plan on murdering anyone.  I will shoot to kill anyone including orphaned and starving midgets who attempt to loot my supplies, or burn me out of my house. Anyone who attempts to take my supplies by force is by definition attempting to kill me.  I happen to believe that my life is worth more than the life of anyone trying to kill me.
What is your plan?  Are you going to give all of your supplies to those who did not prepare?  If so, why bother to prepare?  Can't somebody else give you what you need if there is an emergency?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kparcell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2006 at 10:25am
Dispenser,

My plan?

I might try to hide some peanut butter and perhaps I'd steal from those with more than they need and such, but most likely I would share everything I have if and when the ecomomy collapses. Perhaps that's why I'm so focused on strategies for community prep. I'm a big supporter of free enterprise, as opposed to communism, as a solution that produces and distributes essential commodities. That's why I like local currency systems.

I suspect I'd try to dissuade those who would set fire to your shelter, although I doubt that that sort would change their minds or that they would be dissuaded by your weapons. Perhaps the violent people would tend to kill each other, and then the rest are left. I guess I always look for the silver lining. The thing is, recent genetic research shows that there is actually quite a bit of difference between humans, amounting to whole different directions for the species.   So, I accept that we are just that different and that I am not going to keep violent people from killing other violent people.

It could be that if civilization collapses, then those dug into the holes with guns will be the kind of human that prevails, or it could be the fittest will be those who cooperate and share. If the violent sort prevail, I'd prefer to be out of there anyway. Meanwhile, all the paranoid survivalists make a great early warning system.   Thanks to them for that

Do you suppose that it's true that those who don't arm are different kinds of people, or do you think they are just dim, or what?

Bahhhh

Bonus for regular readers: best punchlines: "He's my daaaaad" and "Pepper".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2006 at 6:21pm
Kparcell:
The problems with your viewpoint are many from my viewpoint.  I agree we live and think in different worlds.
 
The violent will not simply kill the violent, they will kill the undefended first, because they are the easy targets.
 
Sharing all your supplies will not only endanger you, but everyone who depends on you for survival.  Personally I plan to be able to stay isolated for 1 year if needed.  I believe 1 year will be long enough for a vaccine to be developed and distributed.  If I am prepped for a year and give half my preps away. ( If my 1 year plan is correct (big if) )  I die, and my family dies.  If I interact with people outside my house I am exposed the the possibility of infection... along with my family.
 
I see my house and my preps as a lifeboat built for 4, though I would allow a 5th, and will help a few neighbors who are old and widowed. The point is my lifeboat is fine for 1 year with 4 people, can make it to 1 year if carefull with 5 people, but will sink beneath the waves with 8 people or more.
 
I have been confronted with violence before, and I know that only the threat of more violence will dissuade people of that mindset.  I guess it is true that in this world there are wolves, sheep, and sheep dogs.  I believe I would be the sheep dog... capable of violence, but not a threat unless provoked.
 
I wish you good luck, and hope none of us are faced with roving bands of armed looters, or starving children..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2006 at 6:56pm
 
Posted in another thread...Katrina.
 
 
Self-reliance seems to draw suspicion upon you from the authorities. ... For reasons unknown and unfathomable, rescue authorities seem to regard with suspicion those who've made provision for their safety and have survived (or bugged out) in good shape.
 
It seems to be a combination of "How could you cope when so many others haven't?", "You must have taken advantage of others to be so well off", and "We've come all this way to help, so how dare you not need our assistance?" I have no idea why this should be the case... but there have been enough reports of it that it seems to be a widespread problem. Any ideas from readers?
............................................................................................................................................................

 
Because.... we plan well... we will be seen as a target it looks like.
 
We don't have to worry about being ...saved, at least.  That is to our benefit.  No one will try to rescue us.
 
The only people who will notice you are not hungry are your neighbors.
 
The small hungry children will not be able to hike out to your home.
Sick people are no bother...  no one wants to be in contact with others who may make them ill.  If anyone in the home of the unprepared works in the outside word...they could become ill...making many in their family ill.
 
If they are not bright enough to think ahead to have extra food...it is more likely they will be the ones to become ill.....by going out in the last min group to buy food, etc.
 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kparcell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2006 at 7:00am
Dispenser

I hope you have good luck too. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We may be very different, I don't know. I think you make a good point about the sheepdog. Still, i believe that most people will be better off, kids better protected, in communities that are prepared rather than in isolated remote shelters for months and years. Perhaps you agree but don't believe that prepared communities are available to you. Anyway, this thread is getting long and old and doesn't have any new news, so perhaps we'll talk again somewhere else.

regards
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I'm praying for prepared neighborhoods... We started a new group here asking all to attend...nice people.  Young father started it by sending out flyers. 
 
I do think the subject of getting the neighborhood together is one that needs to be addressed.  If you want to remain you have to have a plan.  I am not able to afford a bug out spot.  But have family more remote.
 
The fellow who wrote the Katrina piece said to get extra food for neighbors if you can.  Keeping warm is the biggest challenge and I wonder if it will be the thing to push me out to family .  I have trees in my yard...green wood.
 
Has anyone imagined cutting down trees in the yard?  They may be worth about 1000.00 each as far as property value goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2006 at 12:31pm
Kparcell,
I always enjoy different points of view when presented without namecalling, and when both parties respect the other's point of view even while being sure it is incorrect.
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bruss01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2006 at 9:52am
kparcell, dispenser -
 
kparcell, I hope you're right, I think that if MOST folks are receiving some kind of assistance and "getting by" however meagerly, you'll want their help and be willing to offer yours in return, making for a stronger, safer neighborhood.  With your preps you can llive in comfort, but your neighbors, so long as they are keeping body and soul together (however uncomfortable they may be) will probably remain civilized.
 

Dispenser - You have the flip side of the coin covered. If there is NO AID for those without the basic essentials of life, a good many of them will not just lie down quietly and go to their maker. They will struggle for survival. People will fight for their children's lives. They will TAKE what they need from stores, and other repositories. They will TAKE from those who have "more than they need" (us, the prepared). They will TAKE from others who are in the same boat as them, if and when the opportunity arises. They will be struggling for their lives and considerations about legality and morality will be secondary at best. They will not see a threat to their lives as a huge deterrent, because they are at risk of dying if they DON'T make the attempt. Simply displaying a weapon may work at first as they simply find easier targets. After the easy targets and "low hanging fruit" are depleted, they will come around again, this time they know you are armed and so they don't try the direct approach. Plenty of folks who thought they were doing ok are apt to wake up dead some morning because the beggars came back and found a way to catch them unawares.

Scary thoughts, but necessary ones. We ought to be prepared for both contingencies.  Sorry for participating in the thread drift!


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2006 at 4:20pm
Great posts kparcell, dispenser, and bruss01, thanks.
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