Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese


Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > General Discussion > Off Topic Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Climate-change were you are.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Now tracking the new emerging SARS-like coronavirus known as the Wuhan Coronavirus in China.

Climate-change were you are.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
Author
Message
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 36692
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2019 at 12:06am
KiwiMum, Techno-thanks for reacting;

Some remarks;

-Normally discussion on climate change in the Netherlands is "global 2100"-there seems to be a growing trend to look more at the present for regional issues.
-Politics still stick to plan "A", putting money in dikes etc. For the first time there is public criticism and doubt on the effectiveness of the present programs.
-Both in Belgium, Netherlands and some other countries teenagers go to the street demanding more action on climate change from politics. It is their future !
-In the article(s) focus is still on how to deal with sealevelrise. What is kept out of the discussion(s) is that a rise of several meters by 2050 will end global economy.
-Already climate change is effecting harvests all around the globe. Here in the Netherlands drought meant that salt sea-water replaced groundwater. In some western parts of this country onions, hay etc production went down.(On the other side Dutch wines are booming.)
-There is an increase of infra structure faillures due to extreme weather.
From sinkholes to possible flooding-traffic/transport in the Netherlands is getting more problematic already.
-In the articles they picture the Dutch situation. In 1953 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953 floods brought damage over NW Europe (we did get aid meant for the Korea-War).
-Three major causes of flooding:
1 Storm surge from the Northsea
2 Extreme rainfall
3 High water levels in the rivers
(These three would often combine in extreme storms effecting a larger area)
-Four major sources of income for the Netherlands:
1 Natural gas (production =decreased due to earthquakes)
2 Agriculture (second global exporter after the US)
3 Financial "services"/tax evasion (For tax reasons IKEA, Rolling Stones are "Dutch")
4 Logistics (Rotterdam, Amsterdam-ports railway, internet and energy distribution for NW Europe)
All these are under pressure from climate change-effecting also taxation.

-Already every year billions of Euro's are spent on dikes, room for the river https://www.ruimtevoorderivier.nl/english/ etc. The costs will increase/explode while the sources of income are decreasing.
(Most of those measures only work on a European scale, rivers come from Germany, France, Belgium into the Netherlands)

Were can the Dutch go (to put it very optimistic) ? In 1900 the German emperor claimed the Dutch were German only "we did not know it". In 1800 Napoleon claimed the Netherlands was made of mud from French rivers (Rhine, Meusse). Looking at 2000 years of history the Netherlands most of the time were part of another country-so we are "Europeans" and have to be flexible !
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 36692
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2019 at 6:54am
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Europe-Awaits-Record-Smashing-June-Heat-Wave:
Early-season heat waves are especially dangerous
Heat waves are especially dangerous when they occur early in the summer, before people have had time to adapt to the seasonal heat. A 2015 report from the World Meteorological Organization and World Health Organization on heatwaves and health notes:

“Heatwave timing appears to have a notable effect on the level of mortality. Heatwaves occurring early in the summer have been shown to be associated with greater impacts on mortality in the same population than later heatwaves of comparable or higher temperatures (Hajat et al., 2002; Kinney et al., 2008; Anderson and Bell, 2011). The impact of high temperatures later in the summer is sometimes diminished after an early heatwave.

“In Europe, heatwaves occurring in June result in relatively high mortality compared to later in the summer, while most high-mortality events in southern Asia appear to occur early in the summer before the summer monsoon."

-
Europe’s biggest heat-wave catastrophe occurred in the first two weeks of August 2003. Great Britain saw its first 100°F readings in more than 300 years of recordkeeping, and similar temperatures were widespread across Europe. Adding the various national counts implies that more than 50,000 people died as a result of the 2003 European heat wave. Later estimates brought the toll as high as 70,000, though the exact number is difficult to discern. No heat wave in global history has produced so many documented deaths.

A landmark 2004 study led by Peter Stott (University of Reading) found that human-produced climate change made heat waves on par with the European disaster of 2003 about four times more likely to occur.

DJ-Although the models are different in every run-some models go for 40C+ temperatures next week in the Netherlands.

We have to wait and see how things will work out. But those kind of temperatures may become deadly. https://www.euromomo.eu/ may give an indication of wich groups may get effected most.

When temperatures go this extreme in june they may stay extreme longer during the day since the sun will be shining longer than in August. There have been plans for taking care of elderly but spending cuts may mean a lot of elderly and people with chronic health problems may not get the extra care needed during an extreme heatwave.

Also making cities more climate-change-proof sometimes may be less effective than hoped if temperatures go this extreme. Water may cool cities in the first days but prolong the heat later on-water stays warmer longer than land.

There have been reports of trees starting to burn in Kuwait due to extreme heat-some kind of "self combustion" (spontaneous ignition) for trees, bushes, cars etc. may occur with the possible extreme temperatures.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 36692
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 24 2019 at 8:24pm
Proberbly heatwave related https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/netherlands-telephone-system-out-nationwide (computers were unable to make connections-including emergency calls).

Since it was during the heatwave-with lots of people looking for medical care due to heat related problems this "disturbance" was a major problem and may have cost some lives.

Allthough the heat is less extreme (monday max 33C-today may bring 37C) a few days ago models expected temperatures above 40C for several days.

Since Thursday may be getting cooler-under 25C in the met.office area we may not even get to an "official heatwave". Saterday may bring another extreme day (37C ?).

There was also major disruption on the railways. Maybe related to the communication problem and made worse by the heat.

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/national-emergency-as-u-s-farm-crops-fail-food-shortages-by-late-july-food-riots-thereafter and problems with drinking water may be on their way....DJ-We seem to have a heatwave plan even for cows. When it gets to hot during the day the can go outside during the night and "relax" in (cool) stables during the day.

https://www.meteoalarm.eu/

http://www.thebigwobble.org/2019/06/after-turbulent-storms-floods-giant.html
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 36692
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 12:39am
A recent newspaper article on a heatrecord 42,9C/107.6F and why it is "not counting". Deelen airbase is just north of my hometown Arnhem.

So it was 42.9 degrees, where did the mysterious heat in Deelen come from?,, Can't be right, we are going to examine the weather station. ”With that announcement, the KNMI deleted the insane heat record (42.9 degrees) from weather station Deelen on 25 July. It now appears: nothing was wrong with the sensor, it was really that hot. Why does the heat record of Deelen not count? Victor Schildkamp 03-12-19, 19:00 Last update: 04-12-19, 16:04

The bizarre twenty minutes on July 25 in the afternoon: what's going on in the Gelderland town of Deelen? At 1.58 p.m. the thermometer, which is already running overtime, indicates 40.7 degrees. Unbelievable. "I thought I had a heart failure", weatherman Ben Lankamp of Weerplaza will say later. And it gets even crazier: at 14:17 hrs, Deelen has passed the 42 degrees: forty-two point nine!Weather people throughout the Netherlands go crazy or don't believe it. But the KNMI speaks of an official heat record. Weerplaza has the editorial staff on the line: cramped, the weatherman on duty is looking for a meteorological explanation for the unbelievable: ,, It seems that a kind of microclimate is emerging there, we no longer measure air displacement anymore . As a result, the air warms up extremely quickly. ”It even starts to sound scary, apocalyptic. They are already absurdly hot days. Is the climate going crazy now? Does the Netherlands catch fire? And will the 50 residents of the Deelen neighborhood be the first to join?

Weerplaza.nl✔@WeerplazaThe measuring station #Deelen is briefly in the pubic area. But at airbase #GilzeRijen has just reached 39.5 degrees, that is a new #hitter record so there is no doubt about it.321: 45 PM - Jul 25, 2019Twitter Ads info and privacy25 people are talking about this

Onheilsprofeet ,, I believed it right away not already, ”says weatherman Gerrit Hiemstra, who keeps his cool. Hiemstra has been a prophet of doom for many years for the consequences of global warming. But this is simply not possible. Weatherwoman Helga van Leur tweets that the weather station has sunstroke. There are more jokes: "Deelen has used doping."After fifteen minutes, the KNMI intervenes: it is not possible, so it is not. The heat record is deleted. Weerplaza speaks of a sensor error. The KNMI is investigating.The new heat record that will ultimately be established in Gilze-Rijen on July 25th (40.7 degrees) is still standing today. And that is strange somewhere. Because why does the record of Deelen not count? In the weeks and months after that creepy 42.9 degree, the KNMI conducts extensive research into the sensors at weather station Deelen. "We even brought it to the lab and turned it completely inside out," says Charlotte Fijnaut of the KNMITo knockAnd it turns out: there has been no fire or short circuit or whatever. A technical malfunction is excluded. Weather station Deelen has just measured 42.9 degrees. However, another measuring point on the same site a few hundred meters away did not give that high value. So the KNMI stays with it: can't be right, so it's not right. The record remains deleted. But then that microclimate, and the fact that there was no more air displacement? Weatherman Marco Verhoef says that the meteorological simply cannot be explained. ,, We were almost at the maximum just before the 42-degree Van Deelen. The sun could not be any harder, the radiation was already at its maximum, all circumstances were already perfect, then such a temperature rise of a few degrees in half an hour is normal, ehm, quite unlikely. ”Lighter? The weather station in Deelen © KNMIMHuman influence? "I cannot and do not want to speculate," says Verhoef. But it was known that on those hot days in July a true competitive atmosphere was created between the 25 official weather stations in the Netherlands. In the past, an attempt had been made to influence a weather station with a rotating truck. But that is actually impossible at Deelen. The measuring station is on a military airbase, you won't get to that. Or would a funny pilot with a lighter .The answer to that question is "no," says spokeswoman Wendy Ryan of the Royal Netherlands Air Force. Deelen is only occasionally used as a training ground for helicopter flights in particular. The rest of the time there is little to do on the guarded defense site and certainly on July 25 there were no activities that could have influenced the weather measurement."In fact, the base was closed that day," says Ryan, who also finds the mystery intriguing. ,, If you have nothing to look for at that weather station, you can't get there either. Human influence on that weather station is really excluded. Everything is possible in principle, but the people who work there have taken an oath, they will not lie about it. ”No technical cause and no human error.

The argument of not giving Deelen that heat record remains unsatisfactory: it cannot be right, so it is not. Weatherman Gerrit Hiemstra shrugs it: "Measurements are always just a weak substitute for reality," he says. "It may have been warmer than 42.9 degrees in some places in the Netherlands, but if you just don't have a weather station there ..."The night after the 42.9 degrees that did not count, a temperature of 25.6 degrees was measured in Deelen. A "night record". With the same sensors that apparently functioned perfectly again. Yet a record and therefore a little revenge for that small neighborhood in Gelderland. It reinforces the idea that Deelen was also inexplicably hot during the day. However, where that heat came from that small part of the Netherlands remains unresolved.

DJ-A major problem; Deelen is an official weather station. When the data we get from official weather stations by official weather organizations like the KNMI https://www.knmi.nl/over-het-knmi/about is not trustworthy we may be missing important information.

Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 36692
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2019 at 10:25pm
DJ-I am trying to find out more on https://www.gelderlander.nl/binnenland/het-was-dus-wel-42-9-graden-waar-kwam-die-mysterieuze-hitte-in-deelen-vandaan-br~a07dfb22/ the 42,9 temperature in combination with coniferous forest/sandy ground. (translation in my post above this post)

-How does resin react ? Does it get more fluïd, or become an explosive gas ?

-Forests are adepted to a certain temperature range. Due to climate change "forests end up dealing"with (much) hotter conditions then previously-are forestfires a logical (and almost unavoidable) result ?

-The fire-triangle=oxygen, fuel and ignition temperature. A forest dealing with 40-45C temperatures will react in a different way then under 25-30C. How different ?

-What can be found on the climate in an overheated forest ? More methane, plant-oil/resin becoming a gas already ? And can such a changed atmosphere be moved and effect urban area's ?
(In the NSW-Sydney fires it is smoke-the result of a fire-moving into a major city. What when a mix of gasses from a forest under extreme temperatures would be moved (for example by a weatherfront) into an urban area ?

-In a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm the fire is pulling oxygen from the surrounding area. How can such firestorms in coming forest-fires effect nearby urban centers ?
(During world war-2 fire storms did pull away oxygen from shelters. Thousends of people died due to lack of oxygen in shelters that were not effected by any fire in another way (than oxygen being pulled away). Can a major fire decrease the amount of oxygen, increase CO, CO2, small dust, hot particles etc. that it can cause fatalities ?

-How can a forest-fire become a "city-fire" (like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_London ? Can extreme temperatures increase the risks for forest-fires becoming a major risks for larger urban area's ? (for instance what risks do the NSW fires pose for Sydney ? )

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/why-some-plants-can-withstand-wildfires-better-than-others/432727

DJ-This subject is on a "triangle" of metereology, biology and chemistry-therefore "missed" as an item for study.
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 30446
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2019 at 1:35am
https://wildfiretoday.com/2014/03/03/eucalyptus-and-fire/


It's worth noting that in times of drought,eucalypts,

produce more oil,making them more combustible
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 234
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down