Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Cytokine storms |
Post Reply |
Author | |
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: April 28 2009 at 2:57pm |
As there appears a possibility were are heading to a Pandemic I wanted to open
discussions on Cytokine Storms. It appears many of the victims in the Spanish flu in 1918 which involved the Influenza A Virus Strain of Subtype H1N1 fell to the effects of the Cytokine Storm. I would like to discuss what can be used to prevent a Cytokine Storm from occuring ,, Specifically the role of antioxidants. Has anyone done any research on the effectiveness of antioxidants like Selenium Vitamin E Zinc St.John's Wort Garlic and what combination should be administered. Also should this supplementary regimen be restricted from children who are unlikely to experience a Cytokine Storm? |
|
roni3470
Adviser Group Joined: August 30 2006 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 5390 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I was in the store looking for natural flu remedies and found a liquid mixture with elderberry root. I bought the bottle, it has a year shelf life.
|
|
NOW is the Season to Know
that Everything you Do is Sacred |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I read somewhere where elderberry root and Cytokine Storms do not mix well.
A google search for 'cytokine storm elderberry root' will show you what I mean. |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I found this in the research.
http://www.the-health-gazette.com/health-gazette-blog/alternative-medicine/natural-antivirals Any Comments? |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I found this to be very helpful: Note: Permission to reprint, repost or forward the following article in full is granted, but only if it is not edited or excerpted. Protecting Your Family From an Influenza PandemicBy James Wesley, Rawles -- Editor of www.SurvivalBlog.comThe emerging threats of the H1N1 Mexican Swine Flu and the still-present Asian Avian Flu Virus (AAV H5N1) brings into sharp focus the vulnerability of modern, highly mobile and technological societies to viral or bacterial infectious diseases. The last major flu outbreak, (H2N2 in 1957, which killed 69,800 people in the United States) took five months to reach the United States. With the advent of global jet travel, it is now likely that highly virulent disease strains will be transmitted to population centers around the world in a matter of just a few days. In this article, I will describe how you can protect yourself and your family from the next great pandemic. Although the likelihood of H1N1 mutating into a more virulaent strain is relatively low, the potential impact if this were to occur would be devastating. The current strain of the virus has a 10% lethality rate for humans. But even if H1N1 turns out to be a "non-event", in the next few decades there is a very high likelihood that some other disease will emerge and suddenly make a pandemic breakout. The odds are against us, because influenzas have tendency toward antigenic shift. Because influenzas are viral and are spread by casual person to person contact, the majority of the world's population will be exposed in just a few weeks or months. Even today, more than 30,000 Americans die each year from flu complications--mostly the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Here are the key things that you need to do to protect yourself and your family, and to help restore order during a pandemic: A.) Raise Your Immune Resistance B.) Be Ready to Fight the Illness C.) Avoid Exposure. D.) Stockpile Key Logistics. E.) Be Prepared to Dispense Charity From a Safe Distance I will briefly discuss each of these requirements in this article. I have also posted more detailed follow-up articles on each topic in my daily blog (web journal) at SurvivalBlog.com Raise Your Immune Resistance There are two philosophies to fighting off influenza viruses. The first and mostly prevalent is to raise the body's immune response. The other is to maintain normal immune response to prevent a collapse caused by over-response--a so called "cytokine storm". While opinion is divided on this issue, I tend toward a strong immune response--particularly if combating a highly virulent illness. To raise your immune resistance to disease it is important that you stop smoking. If you are a smoker you have already realized that you are much more susceptible to respiratory infections. Smokers are at high risk to develop complications. Get plenty of exercise, eat healthy foods, drink only in moderation, get plenty of sleep, and use top quality vitamin supplements (from a company such as eVitamins.) If you are overweight, you need to alter your diet get down to within five pounds of normal body weight. You need to change your diet for two important reasons: First, unhealthy foods weaken your immune system. Cut out refined sugar. Avoid candy, snack foods, soft drinks, and any processed foods with preservatives, artificial sweeteners, or MSG. Avoid store-bought meat, which is often tainted by the hormones and antibiotics used in commercial livestock feeds. Wild game or home-raised livestock is much healthier! Lastly, pray. Why? Anxiety is a form of stress that weakens the immune system, and prayer is a proven way to relieve anxiety and stress. And more importantly, as a Christian I believe that it is crucial to pray for God's guidance, providence, and protection. Be Ready to Fight the Illness There are some symptoms that distinguish between colds and flus: Flus typically cause fever, chills, achy feeling (malaise), headaches, and extreme fatigue. Cold symptoms are usually restricted to the upper respiratory tract while flu symptoms tend to involve the entire body. Influenzas tend to kill most of their victims in two ways: dehydration and lung congestion. Even the Avian flu, which is respiratory usually starts with stomach flu symptoms. Stomach flus usually induce diarrhea which rapidly dehydrates the victim. To fight this, you need to stock up on both anti-diarrhea medicines (such as Imodium AD--an anti-spasmodic) and electrolyte solutions such as Pedialyte. (The latter is available in bulk though large chain "warehouse" stores.) The various sports type drinks (such as Gatorade) can be used as oral rehydration solutions (ORSs) too. However, I prefer to dilute them about 50% with water, they have a lot of glucose in them which will exacerbate diarrhea symptoms. If commercial ORSs are not available, I have read that you can make an emergency
solution as follows: Imodium is a trade name for Loperamide. It can be purchased generically for relatively little cost, at such places as warehouse stores. The generic (house brands) are just fine. Stock up on Acetominophen (Tylenol) and Ibuprofen (Motrin) as well - for treating fevers. These two antipyretics can be taken together or on an alternating 4 hour schedule (take each every 4 hours but split them, for example at 8 AM take acetaminophen, at 10 AM take ibuprofen, etc. This makes it easier to monitor the patient and get them to drink fluids, if they're up every 2 hours they will have to drink some fluids). Either have a traditional glass thermometer for each person, or a digital thermometer with lots of disposable sleeves. The thermometers are a couple of bucks at most drug stores. The sleeves are a buck or so per hundred. Don't cross-contaminate your patients.
Because influenzas are viral rather than bacterial, most antibiotic drugs (antibacterials) are useless in combating them. If you suspect that you are coming down with influenza get bed rest! Too many people ignore their symptoms because "that project at work just has to get done." Not only do they risk their own health, but they infect their co-workers! Liquids help ease congestion and loosen phlegm and are of course crucial to rehydration. Just a fever alone can double your body's dehydration rate. Respiratory flus such as the Swine Flu and Asian Avian Flu kill mainly via congestion. Buy a steam-type vaporizer. Stock up on expectorants containing guaifenesin as the main ingredient. You will need to watch carefully for any symptoms of pneumonia develop. These include: difficulty or painful breathing, a grunting sound when breathing (quite distinct from the wheezing of bronchitis or the "barking" of croup), extremely rapid breathing, flaring nostrils with each breath, or coughing up rust-colored phlegm. Pneumonia can be a deadly complication of the flu and is the main cause of flu-related death. It is important to note that pneumonia is typically a co-infection that can be either viral or bacterial. In case of a bacterial pneumonia, antibiotics are crucial for saving lives. If it is viral, there is not much that can be done. While antibiotics can clear infection they cannot remove secretions. The patient must cough them all the way back up the respiratory tract. Do not use cough suppressants--anything with active ingredients like dextromethorphan or diphenhydramine. A "productive" (wet) cough that produces phlegm is a good thing! This is where you may need expectorants. One that works well is Robitussin (the original type of Robitussin without any capital letters after the name). These are also available as generics, and quite cheap, so stock up. You should also read up on postural drainage and percussion techniques for chest secretion clearance--for instances when your patient cannot or will not cough effectively. Avoid Exposure Aside from being actually coughed or sneezed upon by an infected person, the most common way to catch the flu is by touching something which has been coughed on or sneezed upon by an infected person. For instance, the person that used the shopping cart before you had the flu. They covered their mouth with their hand when they coughed then used that very hand to push the cart around the store. Now your hands are touching the same place. Without thinking while shopping, you rub your eye or nose and you have introduce the virus to your most vulnerable point of infection. When you are out in public do not touch your eyes or nose. Wash your hands frequently to remove any germs you have picked up. Teach your children this as well. Even though the chances of a full scale "nation busting" pandemic are small, the possibility definitely exists. A full scale pandemic that starts taking lives on a grand scale may quite reasonably cause you to take some extreme measures to protect the lives of your family members. You can cut your chances of infection by more than half if you prepare to live in isolation (a strict "self quarantine") for an extended period of time. You need to be prepared to avoid all contact with other people during the worst of the pandemic. The self quarantine period might last as much as three years, as successive waves of influenza sweep through the country. Think this through, folks. What would you need to do to successfully quarantine your family? Grab a clipboard and start making some prioritized lists. History has shown that infectious diseases do their worst in urbanized regions So if you can afford to, make plans to move to a lightly populated region, soon. Where? Read my blog (SurvivalBlog.com) for some detailed recommendations, but in general, I recommend moving west of the Missouri River (because of the west's much lighter population density) to a rural, agricultural region. When looking for a retreat locale, look outside of city limits and away from major highways that will serve as "lines of drift" for urban refugees. You are looking for a property that could serve as a self-sufficient farm--something over five acres, and preferably closer to 40 acres. In the event of a "worst case" pandemic situation, there is the possibility that power grid could go down. Even if your farm has well water, you may be out of luck. A home with gravity fed spring water is ideal, but uncommon. So you will either need to be able to pump well water by hand--only practical with shallow wells--or be prepared to treat water that you'll draw from open sources: rivers, creeks, lakes, or ponds. Plan to live at your retreat year-round. In the event of a full scale pandemic, the police and military will probably be ordered to enforce draconian quarantines of cities, counties, or perhaps entire states or regions. Having a well-stocked retreat is useless if you can't get to it. Live there, and become accustomed to getting by self-sufficiently. Plant a big vegetable garden, using non-hybrid seeds. Raise small livestock that can forage on your own pasture. Get your digestive system accustomed to consumption of your bulk storage foods. Home school your kids. Develop a "hunker down" lifestyle with minimal trips to town. Each trip to town will constitute another opportunity for infection. To make self-quarantine effective, it is essential that you are prepared to live in isolation for many months, and possibly years, to avoid contact and subsequent risk of infection. This can be practical for anyone that is retired or self-employed in an occupation that does not require regular face to face contact with clients or customers. (For example home-based mail order, self-publishing, recruiting, medical/legal transcription, or telecommuting.) But for anyone else it may mean having to quit your job and live off of your savings. So it is essential that you get out of debt and start building your savings, ASAP. If you can possibly change jobs to something that will allow isolation or semi-isolation, do so as soon as possible. For most of us in the middle class, this may mean "doubling up" with another family to share resources. To protect yourself (at least marginally) from infected spittle, wear wrap-around goggles and buy or fabricate surgical style masks, in quantity. Note that even an N100 gas mask filter will not stop an airborne virus, since the viruses are too small. But at least a cloth mask will give you some protection from virus-laden spittle. Once the pandemic breaks out in your region, you won't look out of place wearing these, even on a trip to the post office. Stock up on disposable gloves. Note that some individuals are allergic to latex. So do some extended wear tests before you buy gloves in quantity. Wear gloves whenever away from your retreat, and wash your hands frequently, regardless. Keep your hands away from your nose and eyes at all times. Stock up on soap and bottles of disinfecting hand sanitizer. Stockpile Key Logistics To make long term self quarantine effective you will need to buy a large quantity of long term storage food from a trustworthy vendor. Storage food is bulky and expensive to ship, so plan to buy locally or rent a truck and travel to a nearby state to pick up your storage food. In the eastern U.S., I recommend Ready Made Resources, of Tennessee. (See: http://www.ReadyMadeResources.com) In the western U.S., I recommend Walton Feed of Idaho. (See: http://www.WaltonFeed.com) It is also important to lay in extra food to dispense in charity--both to your neighbors and to any relatives that might end up on your doorstep at the 11th hour. Stockpile fuel--firewood, home heating oil, or propane, plus fuel for your backup generator, vehicles and/or tractor. For liquid fuels, buy the largest tanks that you can afford to buy and fill, and that are allowable under your local fire code. If you heat with wood or coal, determine how many cords or pounds of coal you buy each winter and then triple that amount. Build a sturdy gate to your driveway and get in the habit of keeping it closed and locked. It may sound far-fetched, but in the event or a "worst case" you may have to repel looters by force of arms. Buy plenty of ammo, zero your guns, and practice regularly. Hurricane Katrina showed how fragile our society is and how quickly law and order can break down in an emergency. Plan accordingly. With the consent of your doctor and his prescription, you should stock up at least moderately on antibiotics such as penicillin and Ciprofloxacin ("cipro") to fight co-infections. But they should only be used if it is abundantly clear that a co-infection has set in. (Again, watch for pneumonia symptoms.) There are a few drugs that have been clinically proven to be useful in lessening the symptoms of viral influenzas, and shortening the duration of illness. These include Relenza (Zanamivir), Tamiflu (Oseltamivir phosphate), and Sambucol. These drugs are used immediately after the onset of flu symptoms. Of the three, Sambucol--a non-perscription tincture of black elderberry-- is probably the best. I predict shortages of these drugs in coming months, so stock up while they are still readily available! Be Prepared to Dispense Charity From a Safe Distance I already mentioned that it is important to lay in extra food to dispense in charity. I cannot emphasize this enough. Helping your neighbors is Biblically sound and builds trustworthy friendships that you can count on. To avoid risk of infection, you need to be prepared to dispense charity from a safe distance--without physical contact. Think: planning, teamwork, and ballistic backup. While your family's food storage can be in bulk containers (typically 5 to 7 gallon food grade plastic pails), your charity storage food should mostly be in smaller containers. Or, at least buy some extra smaller containers that you can fill and distribute to refugees. Also be sure to lay in extra gardening seed to dispense as charity. Non-hybrid ("heirloom") varieties that breed true are available from several vendors including The Ark Institute. (See: http://www.ArkInstitute.com). By dispensing charity you will be helping to restore order and re-establish key infrastructures. The bottom line is that you'll be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. In closing, I highly recommend that you read Dr. Grattan Woodson's monograph "Preparing for the Coming Influenza Pandemic", available for free download at my blog site. Also see: http://www.*****.com. Postscript from SurvivalBlog.com Reader and Contributor "Dr. November": I'm not a big believer in Tamiflu (Oseltamivir) or the other neuraminidase
inhibitors. It's only demonstrated effect is to make the course of the flu
slightly less long (on the order of 1-2 days less), but it has a critical requirement:
IT MUST BE TAKEN within the first day or two of feeling ill. Most people (myself
included) will just feel a little 'off' those first couple of days, or try
to work through it. Tamiflu in this situation is pretty useless. Also, if someone
is going to use it, they MUST have it on hand before they get sick: Getting
the first symptoms, then deciding to call your physician and getting an appointment
to get the prescription the week after next isn't going to help. Finally, it's
pretty expensive (a standard 5 day adult dose is around $100 plus the physicians
appointment). It's also going to be in short supply as people start trying
to get it (similar to Cipro following the anthrax attacks and scares). BTW,
Mom's old standby for respiratory infections (chicken soup) is as effective
as oseltamivir. I doubt that it would be a good choice for an avian or swine
flu pandemic, though. Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, and I don't give medical advice. Mention of any medical device, treatment, drug, or food supplement is for educational purposes only. Consult your doctor before undertaking any treatment or the use of any drug, food supplement, or medical device. SurvivalBlog.com is not responsible for the use or misuse of any product mentioned. Copyright 2006-2009. All Rights Reserved by James Wesley, Rawles - www.SurvivalBlog.com™ Permission to reprint, repost or forward this article in full is granted, but only if it is not edited or excerpted. About the Author:
|
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Link to a Raw Video Just out from
Dr.Niman http://www.wpxi.com/video/19313969/index.html |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi Sly You might want to search on here as I have posted extensively on this topic. It is usually in Avian this over reaction of the immune system which causes death rather than the disease. In the case of my wife Bluebird, at one point they wished to inject steroids to initiate a cytokine storm which many physicians believe is a last ditch effort to rally the immune system, but which often kills the patient. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm An irony is that many of us Baby Boomers may find some comfort in this. Recently it has been noted in the Swine Flu- a lot of vicitims were in the 20-30 year old age range. In an immuno suppressed person, or young baby or elderly person, you have a compromised immune system. This serves as a buffer to prevent the huge reaction that a healthy immune when it kicks in can produce. So, it is possible in a Pandemic, ironically those who should be the greater risk, the ones the triage would wave off to go to the elephant graveyard and receive no treatment, may have the better chance of survival. Sometimes in a Pandemic, it is lethal to be too healthy. Medclinician |
|
parsnip
Valued Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
My partner and I just looked up information on cytokine storms and while elderberry extracts are normally very good for fighting off seasonal flu, they should absolutely be avoided with regard to cytokine storms. Here's what we found:
(PRWEB) May 10, 2006 -- A Biology teacher from Australia, named Stephen Jones, has done extensive research into the H5N1 virus and compiled a list of natural foods that are effective against it and listed others that are detrimental. The list may come as a surprise to many people since foods such as spirulina and echinacea are listed as detrimental. This strange occurrence is largely due to the fact that the virus is immune to 2 cytokines that the body produces (TNF-a and IL-6). Cytokines are compounds produced by the body’s immune system that attack and remove foreign bodies. The problem is that when a foreign body is immune to certain cytokines, the body sees that its immune response is not working and tries even harder, which can lead to what is called a cytokine storm, where the body becomes flooded with these compounds and they eventually destroy the body itself. Foods such as Echinacea actually stimulate the production of these specific cytokines; hence consuming it is not a good idea if one suspects they may have the virus. During the 1918 Spanish Flu many healthy young people died from cytokine storms due to their immune systems overreacting. Consuming foods which suppress the production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6 and enhance the production of the ones that actually are effective against the virus will aid the patient greatly. Other foods that create mucous in the respiratory tract, such as bananas, are also listed as detrimental due to the fact that the predominant breeding ground of the virus is the respiratory tract and another way in which a patient may suffer is due to the body's over production of mucous in this area. Folk Medicines and Herbs to use and avoid with Bird Flu Below is a list of foods that are said to contain substances that are natural antivirals, immune boosters or they decrease cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. Alternative medications that are most likely to help us during a severe pandemic: Garlic (allicin) - Very effective antiviral. Best if fresh (raw) and crushed. Must be consumed within 1 hour of crushing. Dosage is initially 2 to 3 cloves per day but later reduce until no body odour occurs. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 9049657) Vitamin C - Boosts the immune system and is an antiviral by blocking the enzyme neuraminadase. Viruses need neuraminadase to reproduce. There are anecdotal stories of people taking large amounts of Vitamin C (children ½) surviving the Spanish Flu. Research shows that it may reduce the production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. A study on 470 people involved giving the test group 1000 mg hourly for 6 hours and then 1000 mg 3 times daily after reporting flu symptoms. Symptoms decreased by 85%. (Pubmed PMID 10543583, 634178, 16169205, 12876306) Green Tea (possible Tamiflu/Relenza alternative)- Very effective antiviral. Also decreases the production of the cytokine (catechins) TNF-a. Inhibits neuraminidase. May have antiviral activity that is equal to other antivirals such as Tamiflu. (Pubmed PMID 16137775) St Johns Wort (Hypericum) - Very effective antiviral. Also decreases the production of the cytokine IL-6. Hypericum is an extract from St John’s Wort. There have been some very successful field trials in commercial flocks infected with H5N1 in Vietnam. (Pubmed PMID 7857513, 11518071, 11362353, 7857513, 11518071) Vitamin E - Immune booster. Also decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. (Pubmed PMID 155882360, 10929076) Experiments involved using mice. Very suitable for immune compromised people, especially the elderly. Effects enhanced when taken with Vitamin C. Apple Juice - Antiviral. Fresh apple juice including the pulp and skin has greater antiviral activity than heated commercial apple juice. More research is needed. Effectiveness on H5N1 is unknown. (Pubmed PMID 32832, 12452634) Resveratrol - Antiviral. In addition to inhibiting neuraminidase, Resveratrol also sends a message to cells to stop manufacturing viruses. This is a proven antiviral found naturally in red wine, peanuts, mulberries, Japanese Knotwood root (richest source), raisins and red grapes. Resveratrol supplements are relatively inexpensive, are more stable than wine and is available in liquid form for absorption in the mouth. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 1583880, 12817628, 15985724) Scuttellaria (Skullcap) - Antiviral. A herb used as a tea. It has no side effects and is also a mild tranquilliser. Research suggests neuraminidase, which is a substance needed by the H5N1 virus to reproduce, may be inhibited. Cranberry Juice - Early research shows that it may be an antiviral, making viruses less able to invade or multiply. Effectiveness on H5N1 is unknown. (Pubmed PMID15781126) Cat’s Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) - Decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. Also boosts immune system. The number of white blood cells was significantly increased during treatment. No toxicity was noted. ( [link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] Active constituents can be found in the leaves, bark, vine, and roots. Water extraction from bark used. Children and pregnant women are to avoid. Has a potentially damaging effect on the DNA of proliferating cells. (cancers, foetuses, growing children) Curcumin (Tumeric Spice) - Decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. This is the yellow compound in turmeric spice. Research shows that this may be very good for preventing a cytokine storm although this is not proven. Must be taken with food or gastritis or peptic ulcers may occur. Pregnant women and feeding mothers should avoid this. The medicinal properties of curcurnin cannot be utilised when used alone due to rapid metabolism in the liver and intestinal wall. When combined with Piperine found in black pepper the absorption is increased with no adverse effects. Obtainable from health stores in tablets, liquid, capsules already combined with piperine. Dosage is 500mg to 4000mg daily. Astragalus root (Astragali Radix) - Boosts immune system. (Pubmed PMID15588652) Tea tree Steam Inhalation - Reduces the cytokine TNF-a. Add 2 drops of tea tree oil in a bowl of steaming water. Cover head with a towel and inhale for 5 to 10 minutes. Relieves congestion and fights infection. Its effectiveness is unknown. (Pubmed PMID 11131302) The following substances may be best to avoid during a H5N1 pandemic Elderberry juice (Sambucal) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. This substance is very effective against the common flu but may not be desirable for the H5N1 virus. Increases in these cytokines may trigger a lethal cytokine storm. (Isr Med Journal2002 Nov;4:944-6) Micro Algae (Chlorella and Spirulina) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokine TNF-a. (Pubmed PMID 11731916) Honey - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pubmed PMID12824009) Chocolate - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pubmed PMID 12885154, PMID 10917928) Echinacea - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. Although it is often used for normal flu, research shows that it may increase the chance of cytokine storms for H5N1. (Pubmed PMID 15556647, 9568541) Kimchi - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pubmed PMID15630182) Dairy products & Bananas - AVOID - These foods increase mucous production. References: [link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov] (search using Pubmed ID number listed after each food |
|
Stay alert, Take care, Be helpful
|
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks for your input Medclinician.
You are right about the elderly and younger ones faring better in 1918.Same is happening in Mexico. it mostly killed young adults, with 99% of pandemic influenza deaths occurring in people under 65, and more than half in young adults 20 to 40 years old |
|
40acrediesel
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 43 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
With regards to using Turmeric, is it advisable to begin taking prior to infection or start once symptoms begin? And, at what dosage?
|
|
Evergreen
Admin Group Location: Washington Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 770 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
this topic has been extensively posted by Medclinician and others here on AFT. Just do a search for cytokine storm and you will see volumes of information.
|
|
235365 - Energy follows thought. As you think, so you are.
|
|
mrbreeze
advanced Member Joined: April 26 2009 Location: Odessa, Texas Status: Offline Points: 26 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I bought this book at Amazon the other night for 1 cent.
Today it's up to $4.00 + shipping of course.
Beating the Flu: The Natural Prescription for Surviving Pandemic Influenza and Bird Flu
|
|
abcdefg
Valued Member Joined: September 19 2008 Status: Offline Points: 578 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
YOu all need to remember this is not the deadly Bird flu.
It is true I have read that Elderberry may not be good for cytokines. Although I have lung disease and have used it and not experinced any bad side effects.
People with emphysema are given steriods, so I can not imagine that they make the body produce cytokenes. Steroids break down the immune system, and cause bones and teeth to break if they are used too long and do liver damage.
People with lung disease like emphysema and COPD are given steriods with anti biotics fora flare up of the disease, the steriods reduce inflamation, typically the body produces cytokenes as a responce to the inflamation.
We have no idea how many people are dying from this disease yet, now it is being reported that this may have run rampant for well over a month, making it virtually impossible to determine how many people actually had it and recovered vs how many have died.
I do not think we an say that the young and healthy are going to be hit the hardest for sure. It appears at this point that vigilance in getting to the Dr. fast is a key in the fight here, if one gets in fast then you seem to recover.
At this juncture if one is dying due to a cytokene storm the medical profession can at least use medications like morphine and others that will make it so you may be dying but you are not going to know it. These are meds that were used on my father who died of lung disease.
Stay calm and keep informed.
|
|
Gexydaf
Admin Group Location: Washington Joined: April 26 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 252 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Does anyone know if the Cytokine Storm has been evident in any of the current cases?
|
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Healthy people in Mexico have died, and some medical officials say a “cytokine storm” in the body is to blame.
http://www.heraldonline.com/109/story/1306278.html |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Strong Immune Response Could Be Behind 2009 H1N1 (Swine) Flu Deaths--------------------------------- CANNES, France, April 30 -- In the absence of hard data about what is killing swine flu victims in Mexico and why the virus seems to be attacking younger adults, researchers here speculated that it could have to do with the body's immune response.
Younger adults have a much stronger immune response to invading pathogens than young children and older adults, said Robert Webster, Ph.D., of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, at the conference on Influenza Vaccines for the World.
It's this exaggerated
response -- called "cytokine storm" or hypercytokinemia -- that may be
causing death more frequently in younger adults, he said. full Story: http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/SwineFlu/13989 |
|
roni3470
Adviser Group Joined: August 30 2006 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 5390 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
still doesn't explain why its not happening here...several folks have waiting a long time before getting checked out so they should have had the same reaction adn did not...its really weird.
|
|
NOW is the Season to Know
that Everything you Do is Sacred |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
WHO Changes Swine Flu Name To "Influenza A (H1N1)"
GENEVA (AFP)--The World Health Organization will begin referring to the swine flu virus as "influenza A (H1N1)," the U.N. health agency said on its Web site Thursday. "From today, WHO will refer to the new influenza virus as influenza A (H1N1)," said the health agency. |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It's not happening here but may happen as/if the number of cases increase.
This thing was circulating much longer in mexico. We may get a temporary reprieve till Sep-oct if it follows the Spanish Flu. |
|
justme
V.I.P. Member Joined: October 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Interesting that you mention the temporary reprieve...
Why is there a temporary reprieve? I read a VERY interesting article today that addresses that. Interesting excerpts from the article... --------------------------------------------------------- A... group of scientists from UCLA published a remarkable paper in the prestigious journal, Nature. The UCLA group confirmed two other recent studies, showing that a naturally occurring steroid hormone - a hormone most of us take for granted - was, in effect, a potent antibiotic. Instead of directly killing bacteria and viruses, the steroid hormone under question increases the body's production of a remarkable class of proteins, called antimicrobial peptides. The 200 known antimicrobial peptides directly and rapidly destroy the cell walls of bacteria, fungi, and viruses, including the influenza virus, and play a key role in keeping the lungs free of infection. The steroid hormone that showed these remarkable antibiotic properties was plain old vitamin D. ... (1) although the influenza virus exists in the population year-round, influenza is a wintertime illnesses; (2) children with vitamin D deficient rickets are much more likely to suffer from respiratory infections; (3) the elderly in most countries are much more likely to die in the winter than the summer (excess wintertime mortality), and most of that excess mortality, although listed as cardiac, is, in fact, due to influenza. Could vitamin D explain these three mysteries, mysteries that account for hundreds of thousands of deaths every year? Studies have found the influenza virus is present in the population year-around; why is it a wintertime illness? Even the common cold got its name because it is common in cold weather and rare in the summer. Vitamin D blood levels are at their highest in the summer but reach their lowest levels during the flu and cold season. Could such a simple explanation explain these mysteries? ... We have only recently learned how vitamin D increases production of antimicrobial peptides while simultaneously preventing the immune system from releasing too many inflammatory cells, called chemokines and cytokines, into infected lung tissue. In 1918, when medical scientists did autopsies on some of the fifty million people who died during the 1918 flu pandemic, they were amazed to find destroyed respiratory tracts; sometimes these inflammatory cytokines had triggered the complete destruction of the normal epithelial cells lining the respiratory tract. It was as if the flu victims had been attacked and killed by their own immune systems. This is the severe inflammatory reaction that vitamin D has recently been found to prevent. --------------------------------------------------------- You can read the whole article here http://avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=22665 |
|
Chloess
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 10 2008 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
People that live aboe the mason dixon line shoe a lack of of Vit D do the deaths show the same correlation?
|
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
temporary reprieve based on previous Pandemic patterns.
The authorities are banking on it. The end of flu season proving them with enough time to for a fall vacine. It is our best hope. |
|
organicnut1
Experienced Member Joined: October 19 2007 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
PRWEB) May 10, 2006 -- A Biology teacher from Australia, named Stephen
Jones, has done extensive research into the H5N1 virus and compiled a list of natural foods that are effective against it and listed others that are detrimental. The list may come as a surprise to many people since foods such as spirulina and echinacea are listed as detrimental. This strange occurrence is largely due to the fact that the virus is immune to 2 cytokines that the body produces (TNF-a and IL-6). Cytokines are compounds produced by the body’s immune system that attack and remove foreign bodies. The problem is that when a foreign body is immune to certain cytokines, the body sees that its immune response is not working and tries even harder, which can lead to what is called a cytokine storm, where the body becomes flooded with these compounds and they eventually destroy the body itself. Foods such as Echinacea actually stimulate the production of these specific cytokines; hence consuming it is not a good idea if one suspects they may have the virus. During the 1918 Spanish Flu many healthy young people died from cytokine storms due to their immune systems overreacting. Consuming foods which suppress the production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6 and enhance the production of the ones that actually are effective against the virus will aid the patient greatly. Other foods that create mucous in the respiratory tract, such as bananas, are also listed as detrimental due to the fact that the predominant breeding ground of the virus is the respiratory tract and another way in which a patient may suffer is due to the body's over production of mucous in this area. Folk Medicines and Herbs to use and avoid with Bird Flu Below is a list of foods that are said to contain substances that are natural antivirals, immune boosters or they decrease cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. Alternative medications that are most likely to help us during a severe pandemic: Garlic (allicin) - Very effective antiviral. Best if fresh (raw) and crushed. Must be consumed within 1 hour of crushing. Dosage is initially 2 to 3 cloves per day but later reduce until no body odour occurs. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 9049657) Vitamin C - Boosts the immune system and is an antiviral by blocking the enzyme neuraminadase. Viruses need neuraminadase to reproduce. There are anecdotal stories of people taking large amounts of Vitamin C (children ½) surviving the Spanish Flu. Research shows that it may reduce the production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. A study on 470 people involved giving the test group 1000 mg hourly for 6 hours and then 1000 mg 3 times daily after reporting flu symptoms. Symptoms decreased by 85%. (Pubmed PMID 10543583, 634178, 16169205, 12876306) Green Tea (possible Tamiflu/Relenza alternative)- Very effective antiviral. Also decreases the production of the cytokine (catechins) TNF-a. Inhibits neuraminidase. May have antiviral activity that is equal to other antivirals such as Tamiflu. (Pubmed PMID 16137775) St Johns Wort (Hypericum) - Very effective antiviral. Also decreases the production of the cytokine IL-6. Hypericum is an extract from St John’s Wort. There have been some very successful field trials in commercial flocks infected with H5N1 in Vietnam. (Pubmed PMID 7857513, 11518071, 11362353, 7857513, 11518071) Vitamin E - Immune booster. Also decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. (Pubmed PMID 155882360, 10929076) Experiments involved using mice. Very suitable for immune compromised people, especially the elderly. Effects enhanced when taken with Vitamin C. Apple Juice - Antiviral. Fresh apple juice including the pulp and skin has greater antiviral activity than heated commercial apple juice. More research is needed. Effectiveness on H5N1 is unknown. (Pubmed PMID 32832, 12452634) Resveratrol - Antiviral. In addition to inhibiting neuraminidase, Resveratrol also sends a message to cells to stop manufacturing viruses. This is a proven antiviral found naturally in red wine, peanuts, mulberries, Japanese Knotwood root (richest source), raisins and red grapes. Resveratrol supplements are relatively inexpensive, are more stable than wine and is available in liquid form for absorption in the mouth. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 1583880, 12817628, 15985724) Scuttellaria (Skullcap) - Antiviral. A herb used as a tea. It has no side effects and is also a mild tranquilliser. Research suggests neuraminidase, which is a substance needed by the H5N1 virus to reproduce, may be inhibited. Cranberry Juice - Early research shows that it may be an antiviral, making viruses less able to invade or multiply. Effectiveness on H5N1 is unknown. (Pubmed PMID15781126) Cat’s Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) - Decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. Also boosts immune system. The number of white blood cells was significantly increased during treatment. No toxicity was noted. ( [link to _http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]_ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]/) Active constituents can be found in the leaves, bark, vine, and roots. Water extraction from bark used. Children and pregnant women are to avoid. Has a potentially damaging effect on the DNA of proliferating cells. (cancers, foetuses, growing children) Curcumin (Tumeric Spice) - Decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. This is the yellow compound in turmeric spice. Research shows that this may be very good for preventing a cytokine storm although this is not proven. Must be taken with food or gastritis or peptic ulcers may occur. Pregnant women and feeding mothers should avoid this. The medicinal properties of curcurnin cannot be utilised when used alone due to rapid metabolism in the liver and intestinal wall. When combined with Piperine found in black pepper the absorption is increased with no adverse effects. Obtainable from health stores in tablets, liquid, capsules already combined with piperine. Dosage is 500mg to 4000mg daily. Astragalus root (Astragali Radix) - Boosts immune system. (Pubmed PMID15588652) Tea tree Steam Inhalation - Reduces the cytokine TNF-a. Add 2 drops of tea tree oil in a bowl of steaming water. Cover head with a towel and inhale for 5 to 10 minutes. Relieves congestion and fights infection. Its effectiveness is unknown. (Pubmed PMID 11131302) The following substances may be best to avoid during a H5N1 pandemic Elderberry juice (Sambucal) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. This substance is very effective against the common flu but may not be desirable for the H5N1 virus. Increases in these cytokines may trigger a lethal cytokine storm. (Isr Med Journal2002 Nov;4:944-6) Micro Algae (Chlorella and Spirulina) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokine TNF-a. (Pub med PMID 11731916) Honey and Spirulina - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pub med PMID 12824009) Chocolate - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pub med PMID 12885154, PMID 10917928) Echinacea - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. Although it is often used for normal flu, research shows that it may increase the chance of cytokine storms for H5N1. (Pubmed PMID 15556647, 9568541) Kimchi - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pubmed PMID15630182) Dairy products & Bananas - AVOID - These foods increase mucous production. Tina Sams (`'·.¸(`'·.¸*¤*¸.·'´ )¸. ·'´) «´¨`·..¤ * Patricia * ¤..·´¨`» I just received this info from my mother who received it from an herbalist. Seems like a very good list to have on hand. I'm hoping we all have the summer to garden like crazy and get prepared for what could be a very long, ugly winter. |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks Tina.
I actually read thatarticle awhile ago re. cytokines and suggested natural remedy. I think one way of looking at this is to create layers of defense. ie. Washing Hands Anti-oxidants Anti-Viral Finally , Anti-inflammatories. What is the best natural anti-inflammatory to reduce inflammation in the lungs? |
|
Sly
Experienced Member Joined: April 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Unfortunately your body succumbs to the virus and you are facing Pneumonia
and Cytokines are in overdrive. What if medical help is not available. What Natural Anti-Inflammatories can you use that are effective?????? >>some of the more commonly used naturally occurring compounds derived from plants in their capacity as modulators of the COX, NF-κB, and cytokine pathways to reduce inflammation and pain; anyone have any insight into any of these >> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/553966_5 The natural antiinflammatory agents omega-3 EFA, white willow bark, turmeric (curcumin), green tea, and Boswellia have all been shown to have various abilities to block certain parts of this pathway. |
|
Post Reply | |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |