Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese


Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion > General Discussion > Off Topic Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - diplomatic escalation between Netherlands and Turk
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic; Now tracking the Aussie Flu.

diplomatic escalation between Netherlands and Turk

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 25527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: diplomatic escalation between Netherlands and Turk
    Posted: March 12 2017 at 3:50am
Turkish ministers wanted to visit the Netherlands in a campain for the april 16 referendum giving Erdogan more powers. In the Netherlands and Germany there live 3 milion people that also have a Turkish pasport. They can vote in this referendum at Turkish consulates etc. 

In order to avoid public unrest the Dutch government prohibeted Turkish ministers to campain in the Netherlands. (The same thing happened in Germany, France does allow ministers to speak to anyone who wants to visit these campain meetings). 

Yesterday the Turkish minister for family-affairs came by car from Germany to the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam. Dutch police pulled her out of the German-diplomatic number plate-car and put her in a Dutch car-with police escort-to return her to Germany. The Turkish foreign minister was not allowed to land in the Netherlands. 

Why is this important ?

https://www.rt.com/news/380356-turkey-biggest-diplomatic-scandals/ Turkey is moving away from the EU and NATO. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-11/strategic-triangle-changing-world Russia-Iran-China (RIC) are working together on all kind of fields (military, energy, trade). Countries like Pakistan, Egypt, Philipines, Indonesia are moving towards the RIC.

Turkish forces are fighting Kurdish US-supported groups-inside Syria. Turkey and Iran share ideas on the Kurdish minorities in their countries. 

Another point is the growing unrest in the EU. Minorities are getting angry because of discremination at the labor market, police brutality etc. (The Dutch police admits their failure in getting young people with Turkish, Maroccon, etc. background working for them.) The campain for parlement elections march 15 is partly over these tensions. 
 

Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 14365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2017 at 10:40am
Thanks for the Dutch perspective, DJ!!   I was curious about all of this, your post was much more succinct than most of the news reports I've read.

I fear that Turkey is sliding down a slope towards totalitarianism, something that Kemal Atatürk 
fought against when he founded the modern Turkish state.  They had great promise, but I fear they are now an unreliable NATO ally, who are reaching out to Putin more and more.  

Pity....Turkey under Turgut Özal was a very (relatively) progressive place, developing relations with Israel and seeking to be a leader in the Middle East.  I put them into the "lost" column.

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2017 at 3:48pm
History repeating itself, muslims have been trying to invade  Europe since 650 AD,

Erdgoan wants the ottoman empire back

same old, same old story.....

next he will threaten sending millions of "refugees"flooding into Europe

in the end the west will have to ally itself with russia and china

both of who are fighting a similar foe

to defeat this menace

mankind will never learn 
12 monkeys!!!!!
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 14365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2017 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

History repeating itself, muslims have been trying to invade  Europe since 650 AD,

Erdgoan wants the ottoman empire back

same old, same old story.....

next he will threaten sending millions of "refugees"flooding into Europe

in the end the west will have to ally itself with russia and china

both of who are fighting a similar foe

to defeat this menace

mankind will never learn 

I hear what you are saying, and I have long wondered about this myself....however, I'm not sure that the Chinese nor Russians represent an improvement.  None of them engender the values that most of us seem to aspire to.  
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 25527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2017 at 10:46pm
The Netherlands isolated themselves in the EU with the hard aproach of the Turkish ministers that wanted to campain here. Turkish ministers could campain for Turkish elections earlier in the Netherlands. We have 400.000 people with a Turkish background, the most can vote in both Turkish and Dutch elections.

This (DJ shocking) escalation has to do also with the Dutch elections, a priminister wanting to show "leadership" in a wrong way. Escalating-calling it de-escalating-is not the correct aproach. 

For over 40 years Turkey tried to become an EU-member. Countries like Bulgaria and Romania could become member eventhough the economic and political (corruption) situation was not much better than that of Turkey. Erdogan hoped several times he could arrange EU membership, the last time with the refugee-deal with the EU. The main reason why Turkey did not become an EU member has to do with religion (and history) and I question the wisdom of that. 

On the other hand one of the reasons the EU is in its present crisis is growing to fast with east European countries not ready for membership, a currency, the Euro, with not very strong economic foundations. 

I myself would like to see religion and politics not mixed; a state should do its work for all its citizens. Personal beliefs better stay personal what religion is concerned. 

Several Gulf-states are much more busy financing mosques tin the EU han Turkey is. (Gülen also did finance schools in the EU). Most Turkish people in the EU are not religious fanatics, want a good education. There was a "brain-drain" from young Turkish people leaving the Netherlands because after a very good education they did not find a fitting job-had better perspectives in Turkey. 

Of the NATO countries only the US has a larger army than Turkey. Strategical Turkey is the EU-middle east link, north of the Black Sea is Ukraine, south-east of Turkey is Syria, Iraq. Erdogan is a "democratic dictator keeping Turkey together eventhough also creating a lot of problems.

Putin must be happy with these problems in NATO https://www.rt.com/news/380454-turkish-dutch-row-quotes/
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2017 at 2:43pm
true Doc,

"the enemy of my ememy is my friend"

allies for a short time ......as it was during WW2......

then go your seperate ways.....

it will come to that unfortunatly

this Nerthlands thing is just the start,

the mslim man i work with has 3 passports and votes in 3 countries ,only to further islam x that by his 4 kids and wife all of voting age

islam and the west just dont go together

never have never will,

for them its Allah or death and most people need to 

WAKE UP TO THAT....

12 monkeys!!!!!
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2017 at 3:53pm

Turkey threatens to swamp Europe with migrants in response to diplomatic crisis with Holland as Geert Wilders calls for Turkish nationals to lose their citizenship 

  • Two Turkish ministers were banned from entering the Netherlands by authorities
  • Erdogan then accused the Dutch of Nazism and being 'the capital of fascism'
  • Turkish nationals in Rotterdam became embroiled in violent clashes in the street
  • Geert Wilders demanded Turkish nationals stripped of their Dutch citizenship
  • 'Turkey should re-evaluate the issue of land crossings' EU Affairs Minister said 

By Gareth Davies For Mailonline

PUBLISHED: 19:25 +11:00, 13 March 2017 UPDATED: 02:02 +11:00, 14 March 2017

  •  
  •  
  •  
  •   

shares

184

View comments

Turkey has threatened to 're-evalute' a landmark deal with the European Union, in a move that could see Europe flooded with migrants.

A Turkish government minister said today that the country 'should re-evaluate' a landmark deal with the EU to curb the flow of migrants in response to an escalating crisis with the Netherlands, which barred Turkish ministers from holding rallies.

'Turkey should re-evaluate the issue of land crossings' under the March 18, 2016 migrant deal with the EU, Turkey's EU Affairs Minister Omer Celik was quoted as saying by the state-run news agency Anadolu. 

Turkey's President Tayyip Erdogan previously labelled Holland a fascist nation and said the country will pay for blocking election rallies in Rotterdam and the ensuing riots.

Ugly scenes erupted in the city as dogs were unleashed on Turkish nationals amid protests over two ministers being blocked from entering the Netherlands

Erdogan repeated hugely controversial accusations that the Netherlands - occupied by Germany in the Second World War - was behaving like a fascist Nazi state and in its treatment of his officials.

The comments have provoked anger from Dutch politicians, and leader of the Freedom Party Geert Wilders demanded 400,000 Turkish nationals be stripped of their citizenship in Holland. 

A Dutch riot policeman tries to get his dog to let go of a man after riots broke out during a pro Erdogan demonstration at the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam, Netherlands
+28

A Dutch riot policeman tries to get his dog to let go of a man after riots broke out during a pro Erdogan demonstration at the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam, Netherlands

Screaming men face off with Dutch riot police outside the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam
+28

Screaming men face off with Dutch riot police outside the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam

A man prepares to launch a metal railing as demonstrators and riot police clash in Rotterdam
+28

A man prepares to launch a metal railing as demonstrators and riot police clash in Rotterdam

Mr Erdogan addresses his supporters in Istanbul after the Dutch government withdrew landing permission for the Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglus aircraft
+28

Mr Erdogan addresses his supporters in Istanbul after the Dutch government withdrew landing permission for the Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu's aircraft

A line of riot police advance towards demonstrators as violent clashes erupted in the Netherlands
+28

A line of riot police advance towards demonstrators as violent clashes erupted in the Netherlands

Dutch riot police battle pro Erdogan demonstrators after riots broke out at the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam
+28

Dutch riot police battle pro Erdogan demonstrators after riots broke out at the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam

Dutch riot police used powerful water cannons on protesters as violent clashes intensified
+28

Dutch riot police used powerful water cannons on protesters as violent clashes intensified

As the race row heightened ahead of Turkey's referendum, Wilders hit out at the the country's nationals living in Holland, according toThe Times.

Analysts are predicting a tight outcome to the April 16 referendum on a new constitution and Turkish ministers have planned major rallies in key EU cities to win votes from millions of Turks residing abroad.

But Turkey's Family Minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya was expelled after being prevented from addressing a rally in the Dutch port city of Rotterdam.

Also this weekend, The Hague refused to allow Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu's plane to land ahead of a planned rally. 

Violent clashes between protesters and Dutch riot police officers turned ugly quickly as 1,000 people turned up to voice their disapproval of the ministers' access to the country being blocked. 

Some men were seen throwing stones, others were seen kicking police officers who had fallen to the ground and metal railings were also hurled in the riots. 

In reaction, police used powerful water cannons in an attempt to control the crowds. 

'Hey Holland! If you are sacrificing Turkish-Dutch relations for the sake of the elections on Wednesday, you will pay a price,' an angry Erdogan told a ceremony in Istanbul, referring to the March 15 election in Turkey's NATO ally.

'They will learn what diplomacy is,' he said, adding that what happened 'cannot remain unanswered'.

'If you let horses, dogs on my citizens you have to be held to account,' he said, referring to dogs, horses and water cannons used by Dutch police to disperse pro-Erdogan demonstrators after clashes in Rotterdam early Sunday.

If you let horses, dogs on my citizens you have to be held to account 
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan 

But Dutch Prime Prime Minister Mark Rutte ruled out apologising, and said: 'There's absolutely no way excuses can be made, they should make excuses for what they've done yesterday.'

Erdogan repeated his accusations that the Dutch response to the Turkish visits was 'Nazism, fascism'.

Speaking at a rally in the French city of Metz - which was allowed to go ahead - Cavusoglu described the Netherlands as the 'capital of fascism'.

The Netherlands is home to some 400,000 people of Turkish origin while Germany has 1.4 million people eligible to vote in Turkey - the fourth-largest electoral base after the cities of Istanbul, Ankara and Izmir. 

A well-dressed man in a suit cowers as a man in dark clothing kicks a riot police officer on the ground
+28

A well-dressed man in a suit cowers as a man in dark clothing kicks a riot police officer on the ground

A man in a suit and a riot police officer come together as another officer falls to the ground
+28

A man in a suit and a riot police officer come together as another officer falls to the ground

Faced with an upsurge in support for the far-right, European governments have come under pressure to take a hard line on Erdogan, who is accused by critics of seeking one-man rule in the constitutional changes.

Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke on Sunday called on his Turkish counterpart Binali Yildirim to delay a planned March visit because of the 'tensions'.

Police clashed with pro-Erdogan demonstrators in the Netherlands overnight while in Istanbul on Sunday a man climbed onto the roof of the Dutch consulate and replaced the Dutch flag with a Turkish flag.

A Dutch foreign ministry spokeswoman said the Netherlands had 'protested to the Turkish authorities' over the incident.

The latest row came after NATO allies Turkey and Germany sparred over the cancellation of a series of referendum campaign events there.

German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said Sunday he was against Turkish ministers holding political rallies in Germany.

'A Turkish campaign has no business being here in Germany,' he told public broadcaster ARD.

Separately, German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said he hoped Turkey 'would return to its senses'.

Berlin has also emerged as a strident critic over Ankara's crackdown following an attempted coup, which has seen more than 100,000 people arrested or dismissed from their posts over alleged links to the plotters or to Kurdish militants.

'The West has clearly shown its true face in the last couple of days,' Erdogan said.

'What we have seen is a clear manifestation of Islamophobia,' he added.

The president indicated that he himself plans to travel to Europe for rallies, a move that could potentially create an even greater row. 

Recep Tayyip Erdogans remarks about the Dutch being Nazi remnants were made at a rally in Istanbul, as he currently hopes to secure a Yes vote in a referendum over whether he be granted increased powers
+28

Recep Tayyip Erdogan's remarks about the Dutch being 'Nazi remnants' were made at a rally in Istanbul, as he currently hopes to secure a 'Yes' vote in a referendum over whether he be granted increased powers

A demonstrator aims a boot at a Dutch riot police officer who has fallen to the ground
+28

A demonstrator aims a boot at a Dutch riot police officer who has fallen to the ground

A demonstrator with his arms behind his back screams as he is surrounded by three policemen
+28

A demonstrator with his arms behind his back screams as he is surrounded by three policemen

demonstrator throws a stone during clashes with riot police in the streets near the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam
+28

demonstrator throws a stone during clashes with riot police in the streets near the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam

Turkish residents of the Netherlands gather for a protest in Rotterdam on March 11, 2017
+28

Turkish residents of the Netherlands gather for a protest in Rotterdam on March 11, 2017

Dutch police horses and water-cannon disperse Turkish protesters
Loaded: 0%
Progress: 0%
0:00
Previous
Play
Skip
Mute
Current Time0:00
/
Duration Time0:58
Fullscreen
Need Text

Turkey's family affairs minister, Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya, also blocked by Dutch police from entering the consulate

Turkish family affairs minister, Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya (pictured), was also denied entry into Holland, according to reports

Turkish family affairs minister, Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya (pictured), was also denied entry into Holland, according to reports

Turkey's family affairs minister says Dutch authorities escorted her to the border with Germany in a manner that 'tramples on all democratic and human values.'

Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya said through her twitter account that she was being taken to the town of Nijmegen, near the border with Germany, adding that she condemned the Dutch authorities' action in 'the name of all of our citizens.'

Kaya wrote: 'The whole world must take action against this fascist practice! Such a treatment against a woman minister cannot be accepted.'

As demonstrations in Rotterdam grew, police moved in to disperse protestors using water cannon and horses to break up protests.

After several hours of a calm, but tense demonstration involving more than 1,000 people outside the Turkish consulate, police were seen - some carrying out mounted charges on horseback -  beginning to forcefully disperse the protestors.

The port city's mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb told reporters police had moved in to try to break up 'a few groups', but that the situation in the city centre was stabilising as police 'try to get everyone to return home.'

But after initially dispersing, the crowd began to gather in smaller groups again, with the police once again moving in, a source said.

Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya had crossed into Holland several hours earlier aiming to attend a rally in support of the Turkish government's planned April referendum, despite angry Dutch pleas to Ankara to keep its ministers away.

Earlier Dutch authorities had also refused Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu permission to land in the city for a rally to gather support for a referendum on boosting the presidential powers. 

Burgeoning Turkish protests outside consulate in Rotterdam
Loaded: 0%
Progress: 0%
0:00
Previous
Play
Skip
Mute
Current Time0:00
/
Duration Time1:48
Fullscreen
Need Text
The vote on whether Mr Erdogan should be given more power (his supporters are pictured here) is a potentially divisive issue in Turkey, and Rotterdam authorities said on Friday they was banning the rally
+28

The vote on whether Mr Erdogan should be given more power (his supporters are pictured here) is a potentially divisive issue in Turkey, and Rotterdam authorities said on Friday they was banning the rally

The nation will go to the polls on April 16 to decide whether the presidents powers should be increased
+28

The nation will go to the polls on April 16 to decide whether the president's powers should be increased

Supporters of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the opening ceremony of the Bagcilar district subway station in Istanbul
+28

Supporters of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the opening ceremony of the Bagcilar district subway station in Istanbul

Recep Tayyip Erdogan's remarks were made at a rally in Istanbul, as he currently hopes to secure a 'Yes' vote in a referendum over whether he be granted greater powers.

He is targeting expat voters in European countries with high Turkish populations, such as the Netherlands and Germany. 

Mr Erdogan told the crowd back in Turkey earlier in the day: 'You can stop our foreign minister's plane all you want, let's see how your planes will come to Turkey from now on,' Mr Erdogan told booing crowds.

'They do not know politics or international diplomacy…these Nazi remnants, they are fascists.' 

Turkish foreign minister Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu believes he should be able to fly wherever I want
+28
Mark Rutte said Turkey was not respecting the rules relating to public gatherings
+28

Turkish foreign minister Mevlut Cavusoglu (left) believes he should be able to fly 'wherever I want'. Dutch prime minister. Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte (right) said Turkey was not respecting the rules relating to public gatherings

A spokesman for the Dutch government said: Many Dutch people with a Turkish background are authorised to vote in the referendum over the Turkish constitution,
+28

A spokesman for the Dutch government said: 'Many Dutch people with a Turkish background are authorised to vote in the referendum over the Turkish constitution,'

These gatherings are not allowed to contribute to tensions in our society and everyone who wants to hold a gathering is obliged to follow instructions of those in authority, so that public order and safety can be guaranteed. the spokesman added
+28

'These gatherings are not allowed to contribute to tensions in our society and everyone who wants to hold a gathering is obliged to follow instructions of those in authority, so that public order and safety can be guaranteed.' the spokesman added

Demonstrators took to the consulate in Rotterdam, Netherlands to wave flags and protest
+28

Demonstrators took to the consulate in Rotterdam, Netherlands to wave flags and protest

Members of the police stand in line during a gathering of several hundred demonstrators waving Turkish flags outside the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam
+28

Members of the police stand in line during a gathering of several hundred demonstrators waving Turkish flags outside the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam

The protesters were demanding to see the Turkish Family Minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya who was barred by police and escorted to the German border
+28

The protesters were demanding to see the Turkish Family Minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya who was barred by police and escorted to the German border

Earlier in the day, Dutch government denied landing rights to Turkish Foreign Minister Cavusoglu who planned a speech at the consuls residence in Rotterdam
+28

Earlier in the day, Dutch government denied landing rights to Turkish Foreign Minister Cavusoglu who planned a speech at the consul's residence in Rotterdam

Hundreds of protesters gathered near the Dutch Embassy in the Turkish capital in Ankara shouting slogans against the Netherlands for barring Turkish ministers from addressing rallies there
+28
State-run television said some protesters hurled eggs toward the Dutch embassy but were warned to keep the protest peaceful
+28

State-run television said some protesters hurled eggs toward the Dutch embassy but were warned to keep the protest peaceful

Police sealed off the entrance to Holland Street, where the embassy is located. Around 500 people were seen waving Turkish and Ottoman flags near the embassy building
+28

Police sealed off the entrance to Holland Street, where the embassy is located. Around 500 people were seen waving Turkish and Ottoman flags near the embassy building

Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte said that while the Netherlands and Turkey could search for 'an acceptable solution', Turkey was not respecting the rules relating to public gatherings. 

A spokesman for the Dutch government added: 'Many Dutch people with a Turkish background are authorised to vote in the referendum over the Turkish constitution,' it said.

'The Dutch government does not have any opposition to gatherings in our country to inform them about it.

 

Share or comment on this article



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4308054/Turkey-warns-fascist-Holland-pay-price.html#ixzz4bFVzaNgf 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
12 monkeys!!!!!
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2017 at 3:59pm
sorry  to say......i did predict it.....happened a bit quicker than even i saw......

watch the Balkans......ignite......

WAKE UP.....
12 monkeys!!!!!
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 25527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2017 at 12:15am
The Rotterdam mayor (Mr. Aboutaleb, Marocco-back ground) did give permission to the special police unit (sort of Special Weapons And Tactics) to shoot if needed when the Turkish family-minister was pulled out of her car. She-the minister-was escorted by twelve Turkish security agents possibly with weapons. 

The way this escalated has to do with elections in the Netherlands; "moderate right wing wants votes from the Islam-phobic party" and the Turkish referendum; Erdogan wants to make clear why he needs even more power-Turkish identity is under threat. 

Erdogan calling Germany and the Netherlands "nazi-countries" is not an investment in good relations. The EU did not want Turkey as a member but does want the refugee-deal. Also NATO can not afford a Turkish exit. 




Erdogan wants to use a conflict with Europe to win his referendum. It may turn against him, Turkey needs good economic ties with the EU. Russia, Iran, China may not be ready for taking over the role the EU now has in Turkey. 
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2017 at 2:34pm
Turkey's war of words with the Netherlands has worsened after the Turkish president accused the Dutch of carrying out a massacre of Muslim men at Srebrenica, Bosnia, in 1995.

Bosnian Serb forces were in fact behind the massacre but Dutch UN peacekeepers failed to protect the victims.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the failure, still a raw nerve in the Netherlands, revealed Dutch "morality" was "broken".

The Dutch prime minister called the remarks a "vile falsification".

Mark Rutte told the BBC Mr Erdogan was becoming "increasingly more hysterical hour by hour and I want him to... calm down".

Turkey is furious at a decision by the Netherlands on Saturday to bar two Turkish ministers from addressing expatriates in the country ahead of a referendum in Turkey.

In retaliation, Turkey accused the Dutch of "Nazi" tactics, barred the Dutch ambassador from returning to Ankara, and suspended high-level relations with the Hague in a raft of diplomatic sanctions.

On Tuesday, Turkey's deputy prime minister Numan Kurtulmus said the country may levy economic sanctions against the Netherlands as well.

EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini had called on Turkey to "refrain from excessive statements and actions that risk further exacerbating the situation", but her message appears to have had little effect.

Turkey called the appeal "worthless".

Why did the Dutch ban the Turkish rallies?

The spat began when two Turkish ministers were barred from entering the country to attend rallies that were to be attended by ethnic Turks in the Netherlands.

The rallies were called to encourage large Turkish communities in the EU to vote Yes in a referendum on 16 April on expanding the Turkish president's powers.

The Dutch government decided to block the rallies, citing "risks to public order and security". Some 5.5 million Turks live outside the country, including an estimated 400,000 in the Netherlands.

A police dog bites a demonstrator after riots break out at the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam, Netherlands, 12 MarchImage copyrightAPImage captionPolice dogs were used to control protesters in Rotterdam

While the Dutch position was that the rallies posed a threat to public order, the EU has made very clear its unease over the Turkish referendum itself.

In their statement on Monday, Ms Mogherini and Mr Hahn voiced concern that it could lead to an "excessive concentration of powers in one office".

< id="smp5media-p-1" name="smp5media-p-1" border="0" scrolling="no" ="http://emp.bbc.com/emp/SMPj/2.10.11/." allowfullscreen="" style="border-width: 0px; border-style: initial; color: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-family: inherit; font-weight: inherit; letter-spacing: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: line; : ; left: 0px; top: 0px; width: 616.203px; height: 346.609px;">
Media captionA look at how tensions between Turkey and the Netherlands unfolded

Srebrenica jibe

Mr Erdogan's invocation of the Srebrenica massacre showed he has no intention of calming the rhetoric being directed at the Dutch,

"The Netherlands and the Dutch, we know them from the Srebrenica massacre. We know how much their morality, their character is broken from the 8,000 Bosnians that were massacred," Mr Erdogan said.

His remarks touch a raw nerve in the Netherlands, despite a UN tribunal prosecuting Bosnian Serbs for the actual killings.

Mr Erdogan also caused shock and outrage after likening the Dutch to Nazis. The Netherlands was invaded by Nazi Germany in 1940 and occupied right up until the final days of World War Two in Europe, in May 1945. Rotterdam was devastated by German bombing during the invasion.

He has called the Netherlands a "banana republic". The country, which has the sixth largest economy in the EU, is the biggest source of foreign investment in Turkey.

How is this affecting the Dutch election?

The latest development comes just a day before voters in the Netherlands go to the polls for a general election dominated by concerns about immigration and Islamic radicalism.

The anti-Islam Freedom Party of Geert Wilders has long been seen as benefiting from the anti-establishment sentiment which fuelled the victories of Brexit campaigners in the UK and Donald Trump in the US last year.

Mark Rutte (right) and Geert Wilders leave after a national televised debate at Erasmus University in Rotterdam, Netherlands, 12 MarchImage copyrightAPImage captionMark Rutte (right) faces a strong challenge from Geert Wilders (left)

However, Mr Rutte's handling of the Turkish rallies may benefit his centre-right People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), which governs in coalition with the Labour Party.

The Peilingwijzer poll of opinion polls suggests the VVD will win 17% of the vote to 14% for the Freedom Party.

Party leaders are due to hold a final debate on Tuesday evening.

Could there be wider repercussions?

Mr Erdogan has warned of other, unspecified measures Turkey might take against the Netherlands.

Relations between the EU and Turkey, a predominantly Muslim country regarded as crucial to tackling Europe's migrant crisis, have long been strained.

Turkish officials have suggested reconsidering part of the deal with the EU to stem the flow of undocumented migrants.

The number of migrants reaching Greece by sea dropped sharply after the deal was reached in March of last year.

12 monkeys!!!!!
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2017 at 2:39pm
musilms seem to forget that it was the WEST that saved millions of muslims from the serbs.....

will that be the case in the near future with Trump in charge ....

mmmm doubt that 

same old same old 

muslims are ONE EYED they only see the BAD in the WEST never the good 


12 monkeys!!!!!
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 25527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2017 at 11:24pm
Today there are elections for a new parlement in the Netherlands. The ruling conservative-liberal party (VVD) leader, prime minister Rutte, proberbly will get voters that otherwise would vote for the "Freedom party" (pvv) of Wilders. Rutte exploited the conflict with Turkey to show his "leadership".

Erdogan will choose other targets in his campain for even more power-referendum in april. After the Dutch proberbly French and German "political leaders" will use it in their election campains. 

A "war-of-words" can do a lot of damage. Trade between the EU and Turkey, tourism etc, is not getting better. 

http://tass.com/world/935324 Turkey is looking to the east, away from the EU. There is a meeting in Astana, Kazakhstan, between Russia, Iran, Turkey over Syria (and Iraq etc.).

Now that support for IS (etc) has become smaller IS is loosing ground in Syria and Iraq, under attack in Afghanistan and Libya. 

Pakistan is getting involved on the Saudi-side in Yemen, Egypt and Russia may co-operate in Libya and the Sinaï. China is getting more involved in Afghanistan, the Chinese-Pakistan-Economic-Cooperation is on its way. 

A "war of words" is used by Erdogan to distance himself from the EU and justify his change of direction after decades of Turkey trying to become a EU-member. The failed coup in Turkey also created a gap between NATO and Turkey. Erdogan can not pull Turkey out of NATO in one step-but has to do that little by little. 

I would not be surprised to see Russian, Chinese, Iranian, Egyptian airforce and navy in Turkish territory in a short while. 

The west is loosing the Philipines, Turkey, Egypt-Trump is making trade with Latin America harder, China is jumping in to that gap....
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 14365
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2017 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

The west is loosing the Philipines, Turkey, Egypt-Trump is making trade with Latin America harder, China is jumping in to that gap....

I agree completely, Dutch Josh!!  China cannot wait to take on the global leadership that Trump is abdicating. 

Our supposed Sec. State Tillerson is nowhere to be found....no public comments, no high-level meetings, no foreign trips....total vacuum.  

Turkey used to be a reliable NATO ally, I'm afraid they will slip into the Russian sphere.  And, Russia continues to prove itself to be an active enemy of the USA and West:


CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 25527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2017 at 10:44pm
CRS,DrPH "the west" loosing influence in the world is a proces of a few decades. After the fall of the Soviet Union things could have worked ou differently. The west can be kept responsible for the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen etc. of course Russia, Iran, China therefor become enemies of that kind of western-oil related-agression. Does the US need saudi arabia as a "friend" ? 

In the Dutch elections prime minister Rutte succeded in his escalation-policy with Erdogan/Turkey. Eventhough the vvd (calling themselves liberal, in many ways they are conservatives-but on gayrights, abortion, euthanesia etc from a US perspective they are liberal) did loose some seats they stayed the largest party. (Royal Dutch Shell proberbly has a large influence on this party.)

The anti-islam party pvv became second and can complain further for the near future. 

I think it is wrong to see Wilders as a "Trump-alike". In many ways the ruling "liberal" party has Trump-like features; climate change denial, anti-refugee but pro war "defense", making healthcare expensive. 

In Germany the "alternative for Germany" will fall back further in the polls now that the Dutch anti-islam party did not gain that much. France is a different story. Le Pen may have more widespread support, could become the conservative party. 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-expels-dutch-cows-amid-diplomatic-crisis-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=110866&NewsCatID=344 Erdogan will continu claiming Turkey is the victum of the west and therefor he needs more powers. With the referendum april 15 the Turks may start getting bored with that story.

In the Dutch elections some people of Turkish background voted for the vvd/Rutte against Erdogan. A pro-Turkish party "DENK" may get 3 seats in the 150 seats parlement. https://www.rt.com/news/380890-pm-ruttes-party-wins-most-votes/

Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
Back to Top
EdwinSm, View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: April 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 4845
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2017 at 11:50pm
Now that Rutte is back in power, maybe the spat with Turkey can be slowly worked on.  After all, Turkey did shoot down a Russian fighter plane, and after a few months of trade being cut they are now moving much closer to each other.

Here in Finland, the populist "True Finns" Party (that is the official English title of the party name) are set to see a big drop in support in the upcoming local elections. It seems being part of the ruling government has shown that they cannot deliver on the rhetoric that got them supported. Also their charismatic leader/founding member has just announce he is stepping down from leadership after 20 years. One possible replacement has been found by the courts to indulge in hate speech, and if this person becomes the party leader then the current governing coalition could collapse.
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Senior Advisor Group
Senior Advisor Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 25527
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2017 at 1:26pm
EdwinSm, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finns_Party is one group at least willing to take responsibility. I think pvv will do everything to stay out of government in the Netherlands and blame the other parties for it. 

Also from Finland is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_of_Odin, they have spread around Europe, also in the Netherlands. 

Now that "populist groups" fail to get power by elections you may get more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung thugs, streetviolence. Meetings of the pvv in the Netherlands did see extreme right wing visitors-maybe not always invited or welcomed but there. 

http://europe.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremists-militants-bigger-threat-america-isis-jihadists-422743?rm=eu Destabilization can come from many sides. Both the US and EU may expect more "unrest".
Que sera, sera, Whatever will be, will be, The future is not ours to see, Que sera, sera !
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2017 at 2:46pm
no beards no veils in China 

China says Islamist separatists in Xinjiang are the greatest threat to national security. The far western region is home to a community of some 10 million Uighurs, who are mostly Muslim.Beijing is concerned that young Uighurs are vulnerable to radicalisation. Widespread intimidation 



https://youtu.be/3rjUSjFDx2o
12 monkeys!!!!!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down