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Does the Pope read the Bible?

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Kay View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 3:14pm
.blogspot.com/-NWwJi7BdaP8/URKYlREWTtI/AAAAAAAANH8/m9ggSLkXVpc/s1600/Absolutes_Convictions_Opinions_Questions.png
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Kay Kay wrote:

 Sounds like a little difference, what about the theif on the Cross?
By the way not defending the website didn't read all but what I did I agreed .

Luke 23:42-44King James Version (KJV)

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.


Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.



By Jesus's own words, ON SUNDAY the day of the resurrection, he had yet to ascend to heaven.

He died on Friday. So what is wrong with this picture And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Remember that the original transcripts had no punctuation marks in them they were added by the translators.

Try reading the verse this way; And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

This would jive with the words of Jesus "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father"

The thief is assured of being in the first resurrection as Jesus told him so on that day that he was saved.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 3:54pm
 He most likley had to wait until Jesus fullfilled his purpose.

 

Born again believers today go straight to Heaven when they die. I believe Luke 16:22 clearly teaches that we will be escorted by angels to Heaven's gates. I believe we will be greeted by other saints as we arrive to Heaven. We read in Luke 15:10, "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." If it's not the angels rejoicing, then who is it? Christians of course! Personally, I think they all rejoice, but especially the saints. Hebrews 12:1 declares, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses..." I believe that the same saints which rejoice in Heaven over one sinner that repents and gets saved, also jubilantly greet newcomers into Heaven's pearly gates. 

It is clear from the Scriptures that the death of a Christian is a blessed event in Heaven, "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints" (Psalm 116:15). Why precious? Because the Lord gets to meet and speak with us face to face for the first time. If the death of a Christian is precious to the Lord, then you can rest assured that it is also precious to the inhabitants of Heaven. Death for the believer is actually a graduation from this old earthly life into a new celestial life with the Lord. The Apostle Paul speaks positively concerning the death of a believer in 1st Thessalonians 4:13, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." The unbeliever dies and goes to Hell without hope--his family and friends have every reason to mourn and sorrow. However, the Christian goes to be with the Lord (2nd Corinthians 5:8), and that is something to have a celebration over.  
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 4:42pm
Kay

I Like to quote scripture for my response as all truth is found in them.

For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.

Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.

10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


Luke 16

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

This is a parable, as Abraham is in the grave and the rich man is talking to him, based on the scripture above the dead no not anything. Also do you believe that by dipping a finger in water would relieve the torment of the flame he was in. 

Remember that the Jews believed the original lie that man has an immortal soul. They believed that when you die you went to heaven or hell. 

If you do not believe Moses and the Prophets then you will not be persuaded by Jesus.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 4:52pm
Psalm 146
Praise ye the Lord. Praise the Lord, O my soul. While I live will I praise the Lord: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.

Psalm 115:17

17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 5:03pm
William Tyndale one of the reformers

http://www.williamtyndale.com

The martyr Tyndale, referring to the state of the dead, declared: "I confess openly, that I am not persuaded that they be already in the full glory that Christ is in, or the elect angels of God are in. Neither is it any article of my faith; for if it were so, I see not but then the preaching of the resurrection of the flesh were a thing in vain."--
William Tyndale, Preface to New Testament (ed. 1534). Reprinted in British Reformers--Tindal, Frith, Barnes,
page 349.
Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 8:36pm
 Do you believe nobody goes to heaven or hell?  Or are you just saying everybody is asleep or dead until the second coming of Jesus Christ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by Kay Kay wrote:

 Do you believe nobody goes to heaven or hell?  Or are you just saying everybody is asleep or dead until the second coming of Jesus Christ?

Based on the law and the prophets and the teaching of Jesus and the writings of the new testament authors. The dead are asleep and are awaiting the resurrection to eternal life or to the lake of fire.
Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 8:57pm

Revelation 22:11-13King James Version (KJV)

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 9:01pm

Revelation 20:4-6King James Version (KJV)

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2015 at 2:52pm

What does the bible say about the role of scripture and tradition?

 

First lets start with Luke and found out why he wrote the Gospel (all passages are from the King James Version)

Luke 1:1-41 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,Even as they delivered 

them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all 

things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast 

been instructed.


The thing that stands out to me is that his audience ALREADY knew the truth.  Some where witnesses and others have been preached to.   He is witting his Gospel to simply confirm the truth.  Now lets ask a 

question, how did the early Christians receive the truth?  Lets see what the bible says

 

1 Cor 11:2  Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

So it is obvious the early Church did NOT have access to a bible as we know it, even if they did most probably where illiterate.  So how was the truth spread?   It was through the body of Christ.   His Church.   

It was though there spoken words, written words and there actions/deeds.   What does the bible say about the role of the Church?

 

Tim 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar 

and ground of the truth.

 

Now don’t let me convince you that I am anti-bible.   I love the bible as a matter of fact lets see what it says about the role of the bible.

 

2 Timothy 3:16 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

What sticks out to me is the word profitable.  Of COURSE the bible is profitable. HOWEVER the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of Truth.  If the bible is all we needed we would see MUCH greater 

Christian unity.  Two God fearing spirit inspired people should be able to independently interpret the bible the same way.   This has been born out by history with a currently extimated 40,000+ Christian 

denominations.   The bible itself even warns us... But we are too silly as humans to listen:

 

2 Peter 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

In Closing just a bit from St John:


John 21:25 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could 

not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

Doesn’t this make sense though?   The God of the universe encapsulated in human flesh and people think that everything he said, or did, that was important, could be contained in a couple hundred page book?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2015 at 2:56pm
Sorry about the formatting on that last post....  I cut and pasted from my word processor, and didn't realize that it wouldn't word wrap till after I posted it.   Being that I am not a member I don't know how to edit it.

So if any Mods or Admins could help I would appreciate it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2015 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:

Sorry about the formatting on that last post....  I cut and pasted from my word processor, and didn't realize that it wouldn't word wrap till after I posted it.   Being that I am not a member I don't know how to edit it.

So if any Mods or Admins could help I would appreciate it!

DT Join the form and you can edit your posts
Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2015 at 6:05pm
Dt Wrote

"So it is obvious the early Church did NOT have access to a bible as we know it, ...."

Luke 4 King James Version (KJV)


15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

It would have been hard to "have access to a bible as we know it," as only the old testament was written at the time of Jesus. 

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Only the Old Testament was available when Jesus said this.

Yes the Jewish nation had access to eternal life with the written word they had which is what we call the old Testament. But as it is today the leaders of the "Church" perverted the teaching, meanings and the words of the Word of God to justify their beliefs instead of letting the word of God teach them in the truth.
Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Matthew 16:18 (KJV)

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


The first thing of note is that God only changes the name of someone in scripture a few times and it is always at a very important moment.  However this is a distraction from my primary point and I will save it for a future post on Peter.


Do you think the Gates of hell won for 1500 years?   Maybe you prefer a more modern denomination and believe that the dark forces won for 1800 or 1900 years. That is what I hear what I read what you wrote.    Jesus promised that once he established his Church it would last till he came back.   Why don't you trust him?


Would God have waited eons to find the perfect mother for his son only for him to create a church that was left to a bunch of buffoons?   After all the suffering what happens to  the truth? Is  it completely shrouded in secrecy for another 1500 years for the reformers to explain it to us?


Once again I am reading the bible and trying to come to as literal of a reading as possible.   Jesus says he is creating a Church and the gates of hell would never prevail... I take him at his word.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2015 at 5:41am
DT wrote
"Would God have waited eons to find the perfect mother for his son..."


 Eon or aeon

noun

1.an indefinitely long period of time; age.

2.the largest division of geologic time, comprising two or more eras.

3.Astronomy. one billion years.

It is apparent, by your statement , that your views are not consistent with the Word of GOD 

Genesis 1King James Version (KJV)

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The Bible teaches a literal six days of creation, man teaches evolution, billions of years.

Isaiah 8:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


Please remember that of all the multitude of people on the earth at the time of Noah only eight followed the Word of GOD and were saved.

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2015 at 5:57am

Matthew 15:8-10King James Version (KJV)

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2015 at 6:34am
DT wrote
"Once again I am reading the bible and trying to come to as literal of a reading as possible.   Jesus says he is creating a Church and the gates of hell would never prevail... I take him at his word."

The following statement by Jesus 

Matthew 23:8-10King James Version (KJV)

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.


I take him at his word.

Do not pick and choose which words of Jesus you want to trust, believe all of HIS WORD.

Matthew 4 King James Version (KJV)

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2015 at 8:51am
As requested, I cleaned your post up a bit, DeepThinker.  I am not sure I did a very good job - Technophobe is an accurate name for me. I hope you like the result.

I might disagree with OHC on a lot of religion, but he is spot on with one point:  Join up.  You would be very welcome.   Hug
'And you could edit your own posts.  You would be bound to do a better job than I.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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OriginalHappyCamper

Do you have a problem with me calling thousands of years eons?   Because from the human time scale... I think the term is fine.   If you are talking on a geologic time scale.... Yea it takes billions of years to make an eon.


And to that other passage...    What do you call the man who offered sperm to your mother?  Jesus said call no man "Father" but NOONE takes him literally.

Technophobe thank you for the valliant effort!  It now looks close to how it did before I cut and pasted it... It wasn't pretty before either so you did  a fine job ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2015 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:

OriginalHappyCamper

Do you have a problem with me calling thousands of years eons?   Because from the human time scale... I think the term is fine.   If you are talking on a geologic time scale.... Yea it takes billions of years to make an eon.

And to that other passage...    What do you call the man who offered sperm to your mother?  Jesus said call no man "Father" but NOONE takes him literally.

Technophobe thank you for the valliant effort!  It now looks close to how it did before I cut and pasted it... It wasn't pretty before either so you did  a fine job ;)

Either you believe the word of GOD or you are following evolution. Evolution teaches that the earth is billions of years old as you stated above "If you are talking on a geologic time scale.... Yea it takes billions of years to make an eon."


You call yourself deep thinker yet you through terms like "eons" around which has specific meaning to us common folk, then when questioned on it you attempt to change the definition of the word. 

Due you belong to an organization that uses IHS in its seal? As that organization uses deceit to accomplish its goals.
Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2015 at 3:22pm
OHC I am very sorry about my inaccurate language.   I try to be colorful in how I phrase things and sometimes it doesn't work well :)   I never intended to start a creation/evolution debate, though it may be fun for a different thread.

What I find interesting is that you choose to go after this issue and ignore the main point of my post.  Regardless of whether you believe human history is only around 6,000 years old or much older it doesn't matter, my point still stands.    Before human history God had all of eternity to prepare for Jesus' birth.   Why would God inject Jesus into human history at a time that his followers would so quickly go astray?   Why didn't God wait til the reformation or an even more modern time to send Jesus?    Didn't Jesus and God have enough for sight not to create a church that would simply go apostate in a generation or two after his death?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeedThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2015 at 4:07pm
IHS(C)-Is the first three letter of Jesus name in Greek.   In Latin it is interpreted as Iesus Hominum Salvator  Meaning Jesus savior of men.   In english it is often interpeted as I have suffered or "In His Service (Thank you wikipedia)  What is the problem with this Christogram?

Throughout history the Church has had bad people in it.   In fact I am sure  every organization that is made up of men that has lasted for any length of time has a history of things they aren't proud of.  It is the nature of men... we screw up, we are sinners, even those in the Church are no exception.

There is a saying I love: "If  you ever find an absolutely perfect Church, by all means DON'T GO!  You will end up messing things up!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 11:25pm
https://timemilitary.s.wordpress.com/2013/11/131106-pope.jpgw=753
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 11:30pm
https://timemilitary.s.wordpress.com/2013/11/131106-pope.jpgw=753
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2015 at 11:37pm
Sorry about that guys, I was trying to post a picture but for some reason the link keeps getting corrupted.  The link should point to https://timemilitary.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/131106-pope.jpg?w=753

It is a beautiful picture that is very relevant to our conversation here.   If some one would be so kind and help me clean up my mess a bit I would be extremely grateful :)

I guess I will be forced to sign up for the forum simply because I am in capable of getting a post correct the first time.   You guys have a great community here and I would be honored to be a member if that was available to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2015 at 3:36am
Hmm.....  I can't post the image either, but, they call me Technophobe for a good reason.

here is a direct link to it:  http://timemilitary.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/131106-pope.jpg?w=753

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Of course you would be welcome!  Hug  Very much so!

Yes they are a great bunch of people - that includes your sparring partner, OHC.  I am looking forward to that bunch containing you.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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