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Families of fallen soldiers blast Donald Trump

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Satori View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2017 at 10:02pm

Confirmed: Trump Didn’t Send that $25,000 Check Until the Story Broke


https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2017/10/19/confirmed-trump-didnt-send-25000-check-story-broke/


Had the Washington Post not reported it, he was never going to send that man a dime. Not one thin dime.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2017 at 10:29pm

White House: Politicization of Troop Deaths Is a ‘Disgrace of the Media’


http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/10/18/white-house-trump-comments-families-fallen-troops-context/


the media made this political ???


the MEDIA ???


another fine piece of journalism from breitbart.com whose motto is "doing Goebbels proud"


and interesting how they leave out the part where the fallen soldiers mother backs up the account of the Congresswoman


and we're still waiting on that "proof" Trump says he has

by all means Chump ,lets hear it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2017 at 3:14pm
bet they hidden in same place as the Comey Tapes.................

threats, threats ,threats,big man 

what rank in the Army did he get to ..............

oh thats right he took the COWARDS way out................

CRAVEN bully that he is
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2017 at 6:13pm

Jake Tapper: Gen. Kelly Confirmed Trump Lied When He Denied Widow's Claims


http://crooksandliars.com/2017/10/jake-tapper-gen-kelly-confirms-trump-told


wow

how very profoundly disappointing this is

Kelly and Mattis are the only two members of the Trump administration with any character or integrity at all

and now Kelly has sold his soul

how sad

he has let a long and distinguished career by sullied by a man like Trump

I hope it was worth it

sad day for AmericaCry


here is part of what he said


You know, when I was a kid growing up a lot of things were sacred in our country. Women were sacred. Looked upon with great honor. That's obviously not the case anymore, as we've seen from recent cases. Life was sacred. That's gone. Religion. That seems to be gone as well. Gold Star families, I think that left in the convention over the summer. I just thought the selfless devotion that brings a man or woman to die in the battlefield, I thought that might be sacred.


he talks about women being sacred

and he has aligned himself with someone like Trump ???

who has a 50 year history of victimizing and objectifying women

who called his OWN DAUGHTER "a fine piece of ___"

and said "grab them by the _____"


this is the man Kelly serves  ???


I'm speechless

“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2017 at 6:34pm
EXCELLENT analysis

What happened with Kelly, Trump & the Johnson family: standard Narcissistic Personality Disorder

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/19/1708271/-What-happened-with-Kelly-Trump-the-Johnson-family-standard-Narcissistic-Personality-Disorder

just a snippet

NPD sufferers can only fake normalcy up to a point.  They cannot fake the full range of human relationships, which includes consoling the bereaved; this is one way they get caught.

So it blew up in Trump’s face, and he resorted to his usual tactic when that happens — denying and attacking (which made the story continue) rather than apologizing and smoothing over (which would have halted it). 

And Kelly had no option, as I’m sure Trump ordered it, but to stand by his president — even though he can’t even back up Trump’s false denial, as the media are noticing, so it’s not even good spin, and despite Trump’s violation of his own privacy re his KIA son.

Kelly himself probably still doesn’t quite understand what exactly happened.

He has become an enabler for a narcissist, as entrelac points out in a comment below.  It always takes you to bad places, but at this point it’s his job.
“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 1:14pm
The S. Florida Sun Sentinel has Video of Rep. Wilson's Speech, Proving Kelly a Damn Liar.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/20/1708450/-The-S-Florida-Sun-Sentinel-has-Video-of-Rep-Wilson-s-Speech-Proving-Kelly-a-Damn-Liar

Kelly was WRONG

no ifs ands or buts about it

he HAS to apologize or resign

if he is smart he will use this opportunity and run like hell before his association with Trump damages his reputation any further

Trump poisons sullies and fouls everything and everybody he gets near
“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2017 at 1:56pm
Why does everything Trump touches have to be about him?

This whole spat should be about how to ease the grief of the families of those who fell in defense of their country, not what Donnie Dungo said.  

To be absolutely fair, if he managed to upset the widow with an insensitive comment, he could be forgiven: - if he apologized sincerely and tried hard to help find out what actually happened.  Assistance for the family in childcare and financial support would help, as would funding for grief counseling and self help groups.

The last thing people need when they are grieving, worse when the grief is fresh and raw, is to be called liars, dragged through the media  and used to try to prove a point.

But Trump chose instead to turn this moment of personal tragedy into an argument about what he said.

It's not all about you Donnie!  Other people have feelings too.  Even black ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2017 at 7:45am
From Wikipedia:

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which there is a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of understanding of others' feelings.[2][3] People affected by it often spend a lot of time thinking about achieving power or success, or about their appearance.[3] They often take advantage of the people around them.[3] The behavior typically begins by early adulthood, and occurs across a variety of situations.

comment: I think Satori's right! I'm no Psychiatrist but if this doesn't describe the man I don't know what does!
Buy more ammo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2017 at 8:08am
You won't get an argument from me either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2017 at 2:15pm
the reason you got CHUMP as your "leader"

the ROAST of Chump 2011

https://youtu.be/HHckZCxdRkA

ClapClapClapClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2017 at 3:53pm
Sanders makes me laugh," because Kelly is a general we shouldn't question him" Err why?? because he DEMANDS respect....in the words of an Aussie "rack off"Demand!!!!indeed....he not in charge of his troops now.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2017 at 2:55pm
Myeshia Johnson, whose husband Sergeant La David Johnson was one of four US soldiers killed in an ambush in Niger, says President Donald Trump struggled to remember her husband's name during a condolence call.
Source: 
AFP - SBS Wires
4 HOURS AGO  UPDATED JUST NOW

The pregnant widow of an American soldier killed in an ambush in Niger said Monday that Donald Trump had struggled to remember his name during a condolence call, in an account the president immediately disputed.

Trump's call to Myeshia Johnson, whose husband Sergeant La David Johnson was one of four US soldiers killed in the October 4 jihadist attack, has generated a storm of controversy that is now heading into its second week.

"Yes, the president said that he knew what he signed up for but it hurts anyways," Johnson said on ABC's Good Morning America TV program, in her first public comments on the death of her 25-year-old husband.

"And I was - it made me cry because I was very angry at the tone of his voice and how he said it."

Kelly defends Trump's call to war widow
General John Kelly says he's "heartbroken" a US congresswoman overheard Donald Trump's conversation with a soldier's grieving family and chose to politicise it.
Trump sends family $25,000 after broken promise claim
US President Donald Trump has sent US$25,000 to the family of a soldier killed in Afghanistan, according to the White House.

I had a very respectful conversation with the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson, and spoke his name from beginning, without hesitation!

Myeshia Johnson, who is carrying the couple's third child, said she "heard him stumbling on trying to remember my husband's name and that hurt me the most."

"The only way he remembered my husband's name because he told me he had my husband's report in front of him and that's when he actually said La David."

Myeshia Johnson, the wife of Army Sgt. La David Johnson, looks down at his casket after his burial at the Hollywood Memorial Gardens in Hollywood, Florida

Myeshia Johnson, the wife of Army Sgt. La David Johnson, looks down at his casket after his burial at the Hollywood Memorial Gardens in Hollywood, Florida

The US president fired right back on Twitter, insisting: "I had a very respectful conversation with the widow of Sgt. La David Johnson, and spoke his name from beginning, without hesitation!"

Details of Trump's call were made public last week by a Democratic congresswoman who claimed the president had offended Johnson's widow, drawing accusations from the White House of politicizing the issue.

The escalating row prompted Trump's chief of staff John Kelly, a former general whose son died in Afghanistan, to deliver an emotive defense of the president -- while lashing out at the Florida congresswoman, Frederica Wilson.

Myeshia Johnson told ABC Wilson's account of the call was "100 per cent correct," saying she was a lifelong family friend and had listened in over a speakerphone.

"Whatever Miss Wilson said was not fabricated," Johnson said. "Why would we fabricate something like that?"

Asked if she had any words for the president, she replied: "No. I don't have nothing to say to him."

Trump himself kicked off the furor early last week by falsely claiming that Barack Obama and other former US leaders did not call the families of fallen soldiers.

As the controversy escalated, the president went on to claim that he had called "virtually" all fallen servicemembers' families since taking office.

That has reportedly left his administration scrambling, with four families of servicemembers receiving rush-delivered letters from the White House in recent days, according to the Atlantic.

12 monkeys!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2017 at 4:17pm
Irrespective of the truth, this is not an acceptable way to behave.  This woman has enough grief in her life already.  Trump can put the phone down and wander off to the next task, or round of golf.  Myesha Johnson has no escape.  She is tied to her grief without remittance or respite.  Trump should leave her alone.  If he is innocent of the accusation, then he should quietly drop the subject.  If guilty, he should apologise unreservedly.  

Other politicians are, sort of, fair game when it comes to scoring brownie points for being in the right.  Grieving widows are not.  Politicians have chosen the public life.  If it gets too hot then they can exit the kitchen.  Myesha Johnson does not have that option, nor did she choose this situation.  That renders the very act of arguing with her disgustingly offensive.

Trump, You have no honor, humanity, judgement or conscience.  You are, Sir, what we in Great Britain call a cad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2017 at 4:36pm
A gentleman would have said:  "I am deeply and wholeheartedly sorry for any offence I have given by the manner in which I spoke.  No offence was intended.  I  am truly sorry for any pain and sorrow that I have caused or added to.  Believe me, neither offence, nor insult was intended.  Sargent Johnson was a hero and should be honored for his brave service and his sacrifice for our great country. How can I make amends for my insensitive pattern of speech?"

Sadly, Trump is about as far from being a gentleman as you can get.  So, no luck there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2017 at 10:43pm

Email Exchange Proves Trump Was Lying About Contacting Gold Star Families

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/10/email-exchange-proves-trump-was-lying-about-contac.html


". Now, make sure you’re sitting down for this, but it turns out that Trump was lying."


what a truly vile,defective person Trump is turning about to be

is there nothing he won't LIE about ???


“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2017 at 4:54am
I grow weary of these American Social Justice Warrior diatribes against our President.  I have told you I will begin focusing on Australia and its fault if you do not stop and I will.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/veterans-abandoned-to-private-hells/news-story/e8f809ff0f8c244cf046a0a48c4732f8

IT hurts "Jim" that when he was medically discharged from the army with psychiatric problems in 2007, he was left for six weeks without any money.

It pains him that he was asked to work 20-hour days in Iraq, facing constant mortar barrages without any protective armour.

But what plays most on his mind is that since returning from Iraq in 2006, when he crashed into a depression that has seen him attempt suicide more than 10 times -- including by trying to hang himself in full uniform -- no one from the army has ever rung him.

No one -- not from his unit, not from the command -- has ever called to say: "How are you going, mate?"

He does not feel part of the brotherhood. He does not feel he can talk to veterans his own age.

The army has washed its hands of him. He is seen as a head case. And those who have taken an interest in this young man -- namely, veterans from earlier conflicts -- are now seeing great numbers of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans with post-traumatic trauma syndrome and major depression.

This man, aged 25 years, does not wish to be named. He was a communications specialist who was sent to Iraq on a six-month deployment in 2006.

Revelations of Jim's abandonment by the army come after The Weekend Australian reported on Saturday that dozens of Australian soldiers who had been seriously wounded in Afghanistan were checked into hospitals under false names to keep them from the public eye.

As far as the public knows, many of the terrible injuries Diggers have sustained did not happen. While the dead -- there have been 11 Australians killed in Afghanistan -- are seen coming home in coffins and in tragic airfield ramp ceremonies, discussion about the badly wounded, who come home in secret, is off limits.

Jim's case is another that appears to be off-limits for the army. He says things started going wrong about three weeks into the deployment.

"It wasn't so much that I saw things that affected me; it was the constant stress," he says.

"There's no safe zone while you're over there. There's always a threat on a daily basis. We were rocketed and mortared quite a lot whilst inside the camp, and whilst on patrol there was always the threat of IEDs (improvised explosive devices) and roadside bombs and ambushes."

Jim knew to expect such an environment, but he didn't expect to be working 20-hour days for two months straight, installing vital communications equipment, while at the same time ducking bombs. He became frazzled and unsure of himself.

"I'd be out in the open and had to work in cleanskin uniform (no body armour) and all of a sudden the rockets and mortars would start to land," he says.

"I wouldn't say I wasn't coping but I started to develop anger problems. Certainly, my work performance began to slip by the end of my deployment.

"There's an ingrained culture in the army of 'harden the f..k up'. You're not encouraged to say, 'Sir, I'm having a bit of a bad day'. You shut your mouth and get on with the job."

When he came home, he was given six weeks' post-deployment leave. That's when he noticed he wasn't right.

"I had a girlfriend," Jim says. "She left me a within a week. I had very bad anger problems and I started to drink quite heavily. I had no idea why I couldn't control my anger. All I wanted to do was just drink."

Jim had seen an army psychologist on the way out of Iraq, in Kuwait. It was a standard debriefing, like all soldiers get.

"She told me that I was very flat," Jim says. "But she said I should be OK."

After his post-deployment leave, he planned to return to normal service in Australia.

"The night before my leave finished, that's when I became suicidal," he says.

He cut his wrists but "it didn't work". He tried again more than 10 times.

Jim fell out with his family. "I couldn't relate to them any more," he says. "The things they would talk and worry about seemed very trivial to me. That was pretty much the key issue, along with my anger problem and my drinking. After I came back, I had very bad sleep problems. I couldn't have a good sleep -- nightmares."

Jim is bitter about many things. He says he and a colleague should never have been overworked the way they were in Iraq. He says that upon discharge, he was left for six weeks without any financial assistance from the military or the Department of Veterans Affairs. He was offered no follow-up assistance for his mental health issues.

Living up north at the time, he was not told there was a good repatriation hospital in Heidelberg, Victoria, for mentally traumatised veterans. He believes the army didn't want to spend the money sending him there. They would have preferred never to hear from him again.

By the time he was finally sent to the hospital's Ward 17 -- after Jim's mother had begged the army to do something with him -- he was too far gone for the low-security psychiatric facility to handle. But there was nowhere else.

He was twice put on life support after suicide attempts.

At the hospital, he met "Sandra", now his fiancee. She was an ex-policewoman who also had PTSD. They were able to talk and have now been going out for two years. Jim has tried to kill himself in his time with Sandra, but now believes -- a major relapse aside -- he might have come through the worst of it.

"He cries and screams in his sleep," Sandra says. "If there's a loud bang, he hits the deck for cover. He can't go into shopping centres. He tried to hang himself in uniform in full sight, to let people know what the army are doing to their troops.

"It's disgraceful how the military and Department of Veteran Affairs treat their veterans. The lack of support is disgraceful."

At Heidelberg, he met another person who has become important to him. Mick Quinn is with the Australian Peacekeepers and Peacemakers Association, the modern version of the RSL.

Quinn is a veteran of Cambodia and himself a minor PTSD sufferer. He says the symptoms can come on quickly -- as in Jim's case -- or lie dormant for years. Veterans of the mid-1990s Rwanda deployment are still presenting, searching for help.

About 400 Australian Defence Force peacekeepers were sent to Rwanda. It was a mind-wrecking assignment: the rules of engagement meant they could not intervene to stop massacres. They had to just stand and watch.

Quinn believes 40 per cent of those who went to Rwanda have PTSD. He is still seeing people emerging with problems from Sinai, Western Sahara, Somalia and East Timor.

"We are now getting quite increased numbers coming through from Iraq and Afghanistan, which are resulting in medical discharges," Quinn says. "These guys are coming back with very severe symptoms of PTSD, which in a lot of younger blokes they don't actually realise what's going on.

"The early stages are hyperactivity, worried about someone being behind their back, explosive tempers. In the later stages, they have what you'd call mental breakdowns."

Quinn says it used to be "standard" for the military to report 20 suicides among serving personnel each year. That has dropped to five, which suggests the army is doing something right.

"But post-army, the numbers are massive," Quinn adds. "And those numbers are not calculated. People discharge on request, they have problems fitting in, they go into fits of depressions, they become unreliable, their marriages normally break down.

"They lose their employment and they don't know what's going. They top themselves."

Quinn believes the army is trying to come to terms with the issues but says the organisation is so large and unwieldy that it can't cope. So it just kicks the psychologically traumatised out.

"A lot of the people who are getting psych-discharged don't want discharge," Quinn says. "They want to get themselves as well as they can and stay in the army. But they fall into a category where they're not trusted with a weapon any more."

Asked if public knowledge, and public empathy, would help these people, Quinn says it's hard to say. "Most expect if they go overseas and get hurt they will be looked after," he says.

"If they go overseas and come back mentally damaged, they expect they will be looked after. They're getting quite severely let down because the system can't cope with these guys.

"You can't fix them quite often because they're on a self-destruct mission. They don't want help. They want the system to react to them quickly.

"Public empathy is a funny one. One of my clients is a Timor vet. He was involved with Interfet and was in a couple of contacts and in cleaning up atrocities over there.

"He was working in a bar and on the television there was pictures of a body that was being taken off the back of a Herc(ules plane). One of the soldiers on guard with the coffin had tears running down his eyes.

"A fellow on the other side of the bar made the comment, 'Jeez, imagine if there's a big body count'.

"The Timor vet has gone off his head and trashed this guy. Public understanding would be better than public empathy, if that makes sense.

"They don't want to be in the public eye. It's embarrassing to have a PDST. I don't go out and advertise it. I take my tablets and when I have issues, I hide away and keep everything functioning normally. A lot of these guys can't do that."

Veterans and service people who need help should contact www.peacekeepers.asn.au

comment: The mainstream media must continually create issues to try and destroy Trump. Barack Obama was  Muslim supporter who not only gave millions to terrorist in Iraq - gutted fund to my fellow veterans, I am a Vietnam veteran and I don't know where you get the authority or reason to criticize anything about veterans here since you are in Australia. It makes no sense to me. You were not there at our side in the war, and you have no part in our country . Why do you do this? Have you served in the military? Have you risked your life for freedom or Democracy? What right do you have to even talk about this?

https://www.snopes.com/obama-veterans-money-to-syria/

On 15 April 2016 the web site “Ending the Fed” (ETF News) published a “breaking” news item reporting that President Obama had taken $2.6 billion from veterans’ programs and allocated it to assist Syrian refugees:

Veteran Affairs is one of the most mismanaged government program in the United States. Veterans cannot make appointments, the cost for treatment is outrageous, over 307,000 veterans died waiting for care, yet nobody has been held accountable. The most recent atrocity by the VA came when the VA went to Congress, less than three months before the end of the fiscal year, short $2.6 billion in funds in order to care for the veterans.

After discussing the possibility of closing some of the VA hospitals, Congress passed an emergency spending bill worth $3.5 billion. Josh Earnest, White House spokesman, said that the United States has committed to spend $4.5 billion in order to help rebuild Syria while also addressing the refugee camps scattered throughout Europe. $419 million will be designated for humanitarian aid assisting with Syrian refugees. The money is coming from the United States Agency for International Development which means that Congress will not get the chance to deny the funding.

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-07-26/trump-releases-10-step-veterans-affairs-solution

Now here is some reality for you and some first hand experience from a U.S. Vietnam veteran which I am. Many of my friends died in Vietnam or were wounded in battle. How many of yours were?

Since Trump has come into office, the Veteran's services I receive have improved incredibly. They built a brand new clinic for us in Monterey and now we can be in and out of an appointment in less than an hour.  For many there are no co-pays on our medicine and I had two major operations - a three-way bypass and recently a stint for a heart attack which was completely covered by the VA.

They have modernized health care with Kiosks and any time day or night I can get a provider on the phone in less than 15 minutes. Many hospitals were under investigation and there has been a mass shakedown of the whole system in America.

I am proud to be an American Veteran and with my bank and many people I deal with we are greeted with "thank you for your service to our country".

A president, while trying to call and comfort those fallen in battle, lives a life with a schedule from hell and can only do so much. 

Don't talk to me about families of fallen soldiers if you have never been there. You haven't and you know only what you read. 

We are on the verge of a nuclear war.  We desperately need to focus on important issues instead of a daily diet of Drama and the Jerry Springer show. Not only the U.S., but you have received a warning from North Korea that if you interfere - your country will be destroyed.

Why don't you focus on that? Isn't that important to you that everyone you know and love will die in radioactive wastes in agony and then all you knew will be gone.

This bickering - this drama is only because the Democrats lost. They don't care about the veterans. Obama was barely a citizen much less a veteran.

Do you care about us veterans or are you just posting more attacks again Trump without any concern for us? 

Have you ever helped an American veteran in any way? Just wondering.  I think it would be a could idea to start some threads about the treatment of veterans in Australia. After all - it's only fair.

Medclinician





"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2017 at 8:51am
Med, this is not a war against you.  It's not your personal blog either, by the way.

As to "social justice warriors",  Is that what you think I, Jacksdad, Satori, Carbon and Arirish are?  Well thank you!  What a nice compliment!  I never saw myself as a warrior.  Since my children were born, I became quite the coward, as I had too much to lose.  I thought I was just someone who whined when the injustice got too severe.  Which is why I attack Trump.

Does Trudeau lie?  Undoubtedly, he is a politician.
Does May lie? Ditto.
Do either of them do it even when the evidence shows their words as blatantly untrue?  No!
Do either of them try to gag the press for personal reasons?  No!
Do either of them tax the rich less than the poor?  Yes, but not to the extent they die for the lack of basic medicine.
Do either of them abandon diplomacy whilst teetering on the brink of war?  No!
Do either of them insult their country's war dead, veterans or their grieving families?  No!
Do either of them interfere with the investigations of their criminal bureaus?  No.
In short:  Do either of them bring their high office into a state of ill-repute?  No, both have huge dignity.
Are they racist?  Probably not.  If they are they hide it admirably.
Do either divide their countries or own political parties?  No

If they started I (and I suspect the rest of us) would speak out about them too.  But, so far, even when I disagree with them, their behavior has remained within acceptable boundaries.

I can't say that for Trump.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2017 at 9:00am
Ps.  If it is just because the Democrats lost,  
How come I voted the equivalent of Republican in my country last time and the one before?  
How come Bush has spoken out against current behavior?
How come two Republican senators just resigned in anger with Trump's demeanor?

I disagreed with much Bush, Clinton and Obama did, but they never crossed the line so I shut up.  Trump does not seem to know there is a line.

I understand the desperation that elevated him to power.  I am flabbergasted that he was seen as the way out.  It is like Turkeys voting for thanksgiving parties because they do not like the flavor of the grain they are fed.  How dumb can you get!
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2017 at 9:08am
PPs  I am glad you got free medical care.  Is that why you don't care if anyone else gets it or not?
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2017 at 10:06am
Med said - "Now here is some reality for you and some first hand experience from a U.S. Vietnam veteran which I am. Many of my friends died in Vietnam or were wounded in battle. How many of yours were?"

I lost friends and family in that damn war!

Med also said - "Since Trump has come into office, the Veteran's services I receive have improved incredibly. They built a brand new clinic for us in Monterey and now we can be in and out of an appointment in less than an hour. For many there are no co-pays on our medicine and I had two major operations - a three-way bypass and recently a stint for a heart attack which was completely covered by the VA."

If you really think this Congress ok'd the money for that clinic, they broke ground on it and finished building it in the last eleven months you are wrong! You should be thanking the Obama admin not Trump!
Buy more ammo!
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