| PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL |
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| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
City Chaos - Event Date: December 07 2006 |
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 Calendar Event: City ChaosPosted: July 26 2006 at 11:52am |
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From what little I've seen of the St Louis and New York recent problems
I can only imagine in horror what the cities will be like when the BF
hits. Imagine- no water, no sewage, no garbage pickup, no electricity,
no food no firetrucks, traffic jammed for miles, no ??/
I hear a lot of people in the city do not even cook at home meaning no food storage. In an apartment highrise how would you cook anyway? So the carnage would start within 24 hrs of services going down. They are predicting 2 million dead from the flu. How many from the general mess? Lets hear from the city folks- How are you going to survive this? |
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 6:18pm |
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Well OldasRocks, I plan on driving the twenty or so miles from where I live to where you live, then quite possibly we're going to take over the local WalMart. If not that one then we can take over the one in th etown I live in because it's got the food section.
I got a new job with a department *REALLY* close to where you live. Apparrently they're supposed to build a Cabelas in the town I work in, too, which I'm seriously looking forward to. We may very well take that over too. Problem with this area is that it won't be easy to take over stuff, everyone here, as opposed to Minneapolis, is ARMED!
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 6:26pm |
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Poprocks,
I completely share your concerns. I thought the exact same thing when I saw a major city like St. Louis without power for days! The only thing that kept things in line was the immediate presence of the MO National guard. Guess what, come pandemic time, most cities will be on their own. Many of our National Guard troops are overseas backing up our main forces and even if we were full strength at home, they would be a drop in the bucket for what will be needed to maintain civil functioning of our panic stricken citizens. Sort of like trying to catch smoke on a windy day!
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 6:31pm |
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Having grown up in NYC, New Yorkers are tough! They have gone thru several "training" sessions for this including blizzards, black outs and 911.
Disasters just seem to bring out the best in everyone. I remember one memorable blackout that lasted for days. The local deli's set up shop on the sidewalk and cooked over trashcan fires. They made food and gave it away for free. Folks ate well!
The Guardian Angels (Love those guys!) started patrolling the streets and became our block's personal police force. It was an amazing time when reality seemed suspended.
That being said, I do worry about my family still there. My sister's pantry is huge but pathetic! She has every type of vinegar known to man on one shelf. Another is given over to exotic spices. When I suggested she stock up on canned soups I was told they won't be caught dead with prepared soups -- too high in sodium and way too unhealthy. (And going without food isn't?)
God forbid they purchase a jar of peanut butter and jelly!
I think my siblings would have a collective heart attack if they saw what I've got stored away. Well only time will tell. We prep for the worst and hope for the best.
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 6:39pm |
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Just wait until the post-pandemic cookbooks start hitting the shelves!
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:10pm |
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Well Turbo if you know where I live lets take over Marks office in
town. He is a Class 3 dealer and has move firepower that Iran.
Easy building to control and on the main town generator, has
kitchen and a full basement. Know the building I'm talking
about? I already told Glenn we are taking over the Wallmart. The
generators only have enough fuel for 3 hrs so that is a problem.
You may be wrong on where I live cause we have a Super Wallyworld with
food also. If you are thinking Cabalas you are in Western
Nebraska and that is 754 miles from me so fill the gas tank.
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:20pm |
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I don't live in the city, but I did live in Chicago for a year. Yikes.....I ran back to Ohio real fast! I live in semi-country part of Ohio,near Amish country(part Amish myself). I would offer a safe refuge to anyone in the city if you could get here. A few conditions though.
1. You are in excellent standing with Albert.
2. Have to bring some of your own supplies.
3. You know how to rub two sticks together for a fire! Jk
 If we all pull together...no one in the big city need worry!
Just my thoughts! Blessings!
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:21pm |
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It will be a lot differant in NYC than you remember it.
Remember we are talking about a flu you die from. A lot of the National
Guard will be sick also. No air conditioned places to take people to.
People scared of being close to one another. No food available etc.
Wthout the NG will St Louis stay in line? i doubt it as its one of the most deadly cities in the US now. The same for a lot of other cities. Vinegar soup? Might be healthy for you. |
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:25pm |
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rapture you able to house 250,000 exta people? I figure each farm
family will have to house and extra 250,000 comparing the rural
population to the city. Thats a lot of toilet paper.
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outsidethecamp
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:34pm |
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The more self-sufficient one can become, the better.
DH & I sold off everything we had to purchase a 1911 six bdrm., one bth. farmhse. Crazy??? Yes, we've been called that.... Secure? Yeah, more than most, these days... What have we done to prepare ourselves... Well, about a 12 mo. supply of "supplies" for a family of 10. Extras included. A 3 year supply of firewood to stoke our precious soapstone fireplace. About a one year supply of meds. Known, I might add.... & about.....24 years of prayer....we're gonna need it! May our precious Lord & Savior, Jesus Christ help us all... Peggy in.... soon to be frozen, MN |
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:38pm |
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Oldasrocks just stay prepared and ignore those who are less prepared.
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:42pm |
Was that meant for me???????
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KOMET163
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 7:55pm |
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most urban areas will just fall apart and not do well. rural areas will have to abosrb the tidal wave of urban chaos. Many if not most rural residents willl defend their property with shotguns, rifles and assault rifles. If urban chaos breaks out then all bets are off,
simply put,
urban areas are hell and they will fall into chaos....
KOMET163
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He who laughs last laughs hardest.
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 8:03pm |
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Lets all go to outsidethecamps place. she seems to have it all together.
Chloe, we have to study the non-prepared as they will be looking for food etc. Also we need to prepare for the long term after this is all over. my main worry is being able to run my AC. I picked a bucket of plums today if anyone wants to come help me make jelly. The catfish are getting big in the pond. I love to feed them and watch them eat. Yes Turbo that lump under my arm is a 45. So don't shoot me if you stop me for speeding I have my CCW. if you actually live near me we ought to get together. |
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 8:09pm |
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No Raptured that was NOT meant for you. Sorry guess I should quote the post I am replying to.
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 8:22pm |
Ok...now I can go to bed and not worry I did something! |
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 9:22pm |
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If this hits in the winter, wait till the "Ant Hill Apt" dwellers set the place on fire trying to keep warm. You think BF would be bad, how about uncontrolled fires sweeping through many if not most cities.
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Samoa
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 9:50pm |
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I never thought of that...if people can't cope with a HEAT WAVE...
In the immortal words of Bachman-Turner Overdrive,"B-B-B-Baby, You Ain't Seen Nuthin' Yet". |
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momasaurus7
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 10:39pm |
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I'm new here, so hello to all. I live in NY with a large family, and though we all pray that things don't get that bad. If it does...then all we can do is hope that what is left of man's moral code will hold. |
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We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
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Posted: July 26 2006 at 11:30pm |
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welcome momasaurus! I love your name! I do think that if we don't have a moral code, we'll get one fast. May have to dig deep, but I can't see people not pulling together on this one.
k105 - your post was hysterical! Maybe those exotic spices will come in handy for possum or squirrel meat with dandelion suffle on the side!
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 3:52am |
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I live in the city in pittsburgh but I have enough room for a mosest vegetable garden and a root cellar. I have included in my preps some items for barter that may appease or buy the loyalty of neighbors or marauders like extra powdered milk, beans, sugar and oil and enough rehydration salts for the whole neighborhood. I haven't yet purchased but am considering adding some cigarettes, whiskey and chocolate for the same reason.
My partner thinks I'm really crazy, but I have heard it said that in WW II europe "luxury items" like these items would buy you anything. any ideas what else might have value as a barter item? gardener momasaurus, I love your name, too |
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 4:09am |
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You all forget it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole bushel.
There will always be a few who try to take. This is why we need to be
prepped not only with food but with weapons.
Why is it that NYC and DC lead the country in weapon deaths when it is not legal to own a weapon in these cities? Because the bad guys have guns. Barter items should only be used to that- barter-- if you try to appease the bad guys with cigs they will smoke them and then smoke you to get the rest of your stash. Moma you better go read the Forum part onself defense. Barter will only work with someone you already trust. Which president said "millions for defense and not one red cent for tribute" ? The whole country should follow that today but that is a whole differant Forum. AND DON'T FORGET PEOPLE!!! There are nut cases out there who burn stuff for fun. If some nut case decided he could burn NYC to the ground without getting caught he would try. or Rape or Rob or? The whole point I'm trying to make with this thread is you have to be ready to fight fire with fire. You CANNOT sit around and pray that "mans moral code will hold" Why would it hold then and not be holding now? |
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 4:54am |
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Or the summer, and they have candles. If you have to rely on candles, I think its a good idea to buy stable candle holders, especially if you have children or just a large household. I have got these, and checked that my candles won't wobble in them. You can get a bit blase about candles if you have to use them for too long. Beth
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 5:04am |
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It is certainly true that items like cigarettes, nylon stockings and chocolate would buy you anything in wartime Britain. Or so my parents told me. I understand they were mostly used to buy sex.
I have never understood the concept of stashing stuff to barter. Why not use the space and the money to buy the stuff that you would be bartering it FOR? I suspect that if youoffered someone luxuries to prevent them from attacking you, they would find all the more reason to attack you because they would know you had the stuff they wanted. Both the basics adn the luxuries. I think a few luxuries for ourselves are a good idea. I can't see precious manufacturuing and transport facilities being used on chocolate or toiletries when the population was short of basics and even these were rationed. A few little extras would make a big difference to a long term bleak existence. Beth
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brianages
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 5:12am |
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I am happy to say I had moved from the "Peoples Republic of California" 4 years ago and found paradise. Having been through earthquakes, fires, riots, and a divorce (most costly disaster), in Los Angeles I now fear nothing. Surviving the lawyers was the toughest fight!
LA would turn into Somalia within weeks of a major pandemic hit. We can only hope the lawyers perish first. I was so tired of city living we now live on an island which will probably end up being a great location in the event things get tough.
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Brian Ages - Tybee Island - GA
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 5:17am |
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Beth, I see barter items as covering me for needs I have not anticipated, services that I need to purchase, or alliances I want to foster. I hope I wouldn't need them to buy necessities. For instance, I may be quarantined at work for periods during the pandemic, and I have an aging grandmother at home who is afraid of being alone and needs help with small things, like moving supplies up from the basement and taking the garbage out.
Sure, It could be that luxuries lead to looting, but hungry people, I suspect, would be no less likely to break in for beans and rice. gardener |
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 5:33am |
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Hey OldasRocks, I'm pretty sure you live in Lebanon and I now live in Camdenton. We're getting a new Cabelas just west of the Grand Glaize bridge in the town I work for. Knowing where the Grand Glaize bridge is, if you do, you should be able to figure out what city I now work for.
They want to build a new Cabelas because of the area around there, and the fact that they'll have lakefront property so they can sell more boats, fishing crap, and with the plethora of gun nuts here they'll be able to sell guns by the butt-load!
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 5:43am |
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Well Turbo we are neighbors. From you posts you seem like a decent
person. We need to get together soon. My wife has a kitten that she
thinks needs to go to the vet at Linn Creek today.
My family owns the Lake Chateau motel. At least we own the mortgage. My sister teaches in the Beach and my brother is a plumber there. Yes I live north of Lebanon. My mom live off 54-49 E mail me oldasrocks@wildblue.net |
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 5:50am |
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Gardener, be REAL careful in Bartering. Read some of the posts here.
Cigs, coffee, salt, sugar, candy, toilet paper, bullets, The reason to have some extra stuff to barter is you never know exactly what your needs will be. |
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 7:06am |
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strwberry
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 7:25am |
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I live just outside Detroit and am planning on staying. I have nowhere else to go. It does frighten me to think what might happen when people are hungry, the extremes they will go to too survive. I don't have any bartering items, but have been stocking with the idea that my sister and her husband and daughter will come live here (since he doesn't believe a pandemic will come and have not stocked). This will make me feel a "bit" more secure because there are safety in numbers. Single mother of 3 just might not scare anyone.....
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 8:48am |
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Strwberry, NOTHING and NOBODY on this earth is more ferocious and deadly than a mother protecting her young!!! Get yourself mentally prepared for the fact you might have to do battle to save your children. Then look HARD at your home and surroundings. Where are your weak points?? What can you do to make them harder??
Personally, I believe a good weapon with the proper skills and lots of ammo is a good thing. Lots of people believe otherwise and I'm not here to preach, but, there are a lot of other types of weapons.
Predators are usually opportunistic and will go for the the softer target, so
make yourself an unattractive place to haunt.
PREP ON!!!!!!!!!!!
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momasaurus7
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 8:50am |
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Thanks to everyone about my name. It's from a cup my husband got me 18 years ago, when my first three were babies. It had a picture of a mama dinosaur with two babies in her arms, and said momasaurus. I still have it. Now I've had seven. that's why the 7. I haven't considered getting anything to barter with. it's enough just to get things we need. Don't really have for extras. I truly hope when this hits it won't be so bad. |
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We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
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momasaurus7
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 8:51am |
I totally agree. Having seven little ones of my own, and a new born grandchild. My first.
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We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 8:55am |
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Moma, welcome aboard and congratulations on the happy event.
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momasaurus7
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 9:10am |
thank you on both counts. |
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We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
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strwberry
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 9:28am |
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I agree Femvet, but I don't have the means to buy weapons (gun), barely have enough to continue to buy extra preps. I have talked with my 16 year old a little on how we can hide our preps, disguise them. He came up with quite a few spots I didn't even think of. I don't want to scare them so really haven't talked to them about protecting ourselves. I will when the time is right though.
I have thought about ways of making our home look more "unappealing". When it gets to a point I believe people are starting to roam.....I will empty my cabinets, but leave a few to look like we are at the end of our food supply. Maybe even look like one of us has the flu.....coughing, sneezing...etc.
You are so right about a mother protecting her young.........I am and will be prepared to fight, I'm just going to have to do it with the things around my home. My best defense is going to have to be a good offense.....look worse off than the ones coming around.....????
momasaurus7, Welcome..I like your name too.....For prepping...make a list and do what you can, even a little a bit a week will add up faster than you realize.
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PATB
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 9:55am |
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I feel in control of stocking supplies, etc. but my biggest fear is home invasion. There is no way to stop a "gang" of determined invaders-and it will happen! we are close to Mexico border, 8 indian reservations with their own law, druggies and dealers shooting each other many times a week. I am not blowing this out of proportion. Every two people here owns guns, and it is not unusual to carry them on person in public (w/ permit). Soooo,
you can stop 1 or 2 but not a bunch. The shoot or don't shoot, feed or don't feed, run or stand is decision time.
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LoriCohen
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 10:48am |
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I'm new here too, though I've been lurking for several months. I live in the typical suburbs but I'm really concerned about what could happen here if we have no power or anything. Our houses are wired to the max, nothing works without electricity. Our fireplaces can't even heat our houses. We have no where else to go and, with 3 small children, I don't have the disposable income for a lot of extras. I have slowly been aquiring a pantry but I'm not doing well. Anyone have any advice for us in the 'burbs?
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 11:03am |
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LoriCohen,
Only thing I can think of (for safety) that I heard someone mention on the board in the past, is to make a large sign, which says "CAUTION-QUARANTINED" and if TSHTF you can stick that up in front of your house to help keep away intruders.
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 11:45am |
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I have no weapons, but a good friend across the street has enough for our whole block. Since I'm a single mom, I hope we can get the guys to set up a neighborhood watch (or barricade if we have to) for our block. I don't have much in the way of barter items, but I always pick up an extra bag of rice at the store, figuring I'll have something to share if the need arises. I agree with gardener, though, that barter items could come in handy (and keep some money tucked away in case people are still wanting cash) - you may need someone who can fix a generator or chop wood or whatever. A great barter item would also be extra fuel, if you could afford it and have a place to store it.
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 1:01pm |
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PATB, why do you live there??? I'd be packinga suitcase unless your are the meanest dog in the neighborhood.
Lori, your main hope is your neighborhood. I've read many threads where neighbors have planned together. I'd be talking to the local wives. Reach out to them and ask them if they value their children- if the answer is YES then fill them in on potential problems- most wives rule the houses.-- potental for mutation is 1 in 10 by September according to W.H.O.-- odds of your house burning down in the next yr is 1 in 10,000-- Do you carry fire insurance?-ask them Getting ready has the right idea here of neighborhood watch--but be careful of bartering only with people you know and trust. |
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sweetpea
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 2:17pm |
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I think that keeping an open mind about how disasters can change people, your friendly neighbors could become very irate and bullying when they are in desperate situations (ex: run out of food). You should be able to rely on your "first" instinct when meeting up with people ~ today and in post-pandemic times ~ so that you and your family will remain safe. Prepare yourself now to deal with those issues. You can get weapons, yes ... but you have to accept that you are going to have to physicallyl harm someone who might just be looking for food, answers ... and/or, you could also have a half-empty cupboard you could take them to and give them ramen, broth, some canned beans ... and tell them you'll share what you have left. Also, be careful whom you tell about just how much "storage" you have. In my neighborhood ~ LDS members and Christians, people have had a tendency to tell them ... "I'll know where to come when I need food." We are good-hearted people, but that doesn't mean that we're just going to stand by and let them just take ... Like some people have been saying in the forum, you could just tell "them" you've got sick people ...
or, that you didn't believe in food storage, so now you just go and and forage whatever you can in the community (birds, cats, dogs, mice, bugs) and offer to share that! ...
anything to deter them that makes you look like you're also in a real messy situation ... some people just don't like to hang around and deal with messy issues.
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"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 3:09pm |
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Good Idea Sweatpea, Tell them you are having a Golden Retiever you
caught with a deadbird in his mouth for supper. You have used the bird
to make a delicious soup, flavored with those orange muchrooms you
found growing in the woods. We had to use dirty diapers to
make the fire hot enough but you will get used to the smell.
Come on in and don't worry we have some garlic hanging up to ward off the evil spirits. AND dont' mind if we have to feed the youngsters two or 3 times because it just keeps coming back up. |
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sweetpea
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Posted: July 27 2006 at 3:22pm |
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LOL ... now that sounds like I wouldn't want ta hang 'round ...
 !!
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"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Chloe wrote: