Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Albert’s medical tents
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

Albert’s medical tents

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
Scotty View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:42pm
Doug: In a serious pandemic the churches will have two ways to go. Either way they will end up empty.

The same rules apply to all gathering places.I don't think this virus has any prejudices.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:50pm
scotty,

you're fun. A little bad, but fun.   I'd like to have a pint with you sometime.

gardener
Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 3:59pm
I didn't realise you did such things over there. Its the universal solution to all ills. I thought you guys had bars. Do you have proper pubs?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 4:33pm
A lot bad, I'd say.  But definitely fun!
Beth
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 4:59pm
So you change IV tubing every 12 hours.  14 sets per person per week.  And two litres of fluid per day.  14 litres of fluid.  Find the local neighbourhood drug addict and ask them to show you how to stick the needle in a vein.  No thanks, Id rather  try to figure that out for myself.  Much safer.
Now all I need is a source for the tubing/fluid bags.  Any ideas?
Beth
 
PS. And the address of the local welder for some oxygen.  Possibly a catheter supplier as well.
 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 6:17pm
Where can we get iv kits?  I know they have emerg. kits stockpiled outside NYC.  Could we get them mailed to us?
................................................................
 
ER Doc, I'm thinking about entire families.  I would rather be at home.  We have flu kits in the bedroom closets with everything except iv.
 
But if I had little ones and knew I was too ill to care for them I would be happy for that high school.
Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2006 at 11:47pm
Tubing can be had from DIY and Marine Stores and you can probably find Catheters in the decent BDSM stores. Also enema stuff.

Why the DIY Catheter. Have they banned that too? Why not try the local pharmacy?

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 4:32am
    Beth, if you are interested in home care, I suggest you learn more about oral rehydration salts. Look at rehydrate.org. ORS functions the world over in place of IVs.

If you are interested in home O2, remember what I said: a large (the really big ones on a dolly that are like 5 feet long and maybe 10 inches diameter) only lasts about 52 hours at 2 liters per minute, which is a relatively modest flow. If they really need it, patients are probably going to need it for longer than 2 days.   And how would you decide when to use it? you'd need a pulse oximeter. If you wait until the patient turns blu enough for you to notice, you are likely to need a lot more than 2 liters.

I just don't think it's practical too keep tank O2 at home. the people who use it chronically have oxygen concentrators. You can get reconditioned ones that run up to 5 LPM for about 500.00. Please note that I'm not recommending this, nor am I doing this for myself or my family. Part of me thinks it's irresponsible of me to even mmention it. I think that if you need oxygen, you are likely to deteriorate, and should be seen by a professional. if you show up at a care center or hospital too late, you may get triaged to palliative care only.

Scotty, we do have a decent pub or two over here. You just have to go searching for them. The search it self can be, well, rewarding.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 4:59am
Thanks Gardener.  I've looked up oxygen already and it doesn't seem practical for the reasons you have said, and the storage problems re explosion.  I think this further reinforces my determination to quarantine so that we don't have anyone with flu.  However, anything I can get reasonably easily to help with possible sickness would be reassuring to have.
 
Are re-hydration salts really as effective as IV drips?  I have loads and some baby cups and bottles to administer them if the person couldn't sit up. 
Is a catheter just a tube (and a bucket).  If so, what diameter?  Doesn't it have some sort of smoothed edge? Do you throw them away or sterilise them?  How often do you need to change them?  It would be as well to know, even just for reassurance.
Beth
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 5:03am
What kind of catheter, beth? to me catheter just means tube.   

Yes, all medical catheters inserted into the body need to have rounded egdes. IV cathters are single use items. In addition to the dfficulty sterilizing them. IV catheters have a needle in their lumen to allow insertion, and you can't really put the needle back into the catheter to reuse without screwing it up.

If a person can take anything by mouth, ORS can work as well asn IV fluids. Even with vomiting, a tablespoon every 15 minutes will allow a person to absorb enough to rehydrate them.   You just have to keep up with thier losses from diarrhea. Rehydration with ORS done right can be very labor intensive. IV's are a crutch for those of us who don't have the time to sit at the bedside with a spoon. Nasogastric administration of ORS slowly over time is another option.

If someone is too out of it to prevent choking or breathing too hard to swallow, that's when you absolutely need IV fluids. At that point, you really need professional care.

gardener
    
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 5:28am
Thank you gardener.  Beth
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 9:33am
Gardener, I have a 5 year old that takes breathing treatments <pulmacort & Albuterol>. It is my understanding that pulmacort helps heal and rebuild the lungs. Just curios, if he does get sick <BF>or any other family member, God Forbid, is this possibly a medication that can be given to help, should I stockpile? Any advice will certainly be appreciated.
Back to Top
Dlugose View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: July 28 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 277
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Scotty Scotty wrote:

I didn't realise you did such things over there. Its the universal solution to all ills. I thought you guys had bars. Do you have proper pubs?
What do you know over there about America anyways?  Varies a lot around the country.  Here in Boston, where the Irish population would make it maybe the 2nd largest city in Ireland, not to mention Scots and others, we have the freshest Guinness available, and in some neighborhoods the Irish pubs have stiff competition for each other and for the best performers.  I suppose it might still be a safe haven for those in political trouble overseas.  So this is a fine place to hang out and have a pint!
Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 9:51am
Standard piercing needles might do it. Surgical steel, hollow, purpose made for insertion through the skin, clinically clean, with or without plastic sleeve, any size from 1mm up to 5mm. Get them from any piercing studio.

So all you need now is some alcohol, some gloves, five years intensive medical training and away you go. Oh, I forgot to mention the risks. Actually there are probably too many to mention so I'll just stick with septicaemia and law suits. If you thought you didn't like lawyers, wait till you meet septicaemia.
Back to Top
Dlugose View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: July 28 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 277
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 10:05am
Originally posted by standingfirm standingfirm wrote:


A volunteer public health corps modeled on the civil defense corps is ideal. People are more likely to be involved if it means taking responsibility for those near and dear to them. The more people you can educate ahead of the event the fewer people you will have clogging the system out of sheer terror.
The Medical Reserve Corps now is up to at least 469 units. To locate a unit near you see http://www.medicalreservecorps.gov/HomePage If there is not a unit there already, there are instructions for forming one.  You are expected of course to keep in touch with public health officials, community leaders, and provide some basic training courses.  They will train you for free so that your members are familiar with setting up a temp shelter for something like giving shots in any kind of outbreak, handing psychological stress, the FEMA emergency structure which is not shared with the same terminology for police, fire depts, EMTs, medical people etc.  You need the group to be ready for general purpose health disastes, but you could invite in all the trainers you want to make sure your unit is especially prepared for a pandemic.
 

Daniel Mackie with the Washoe County District Health Department said the state needs more volunteers for its Medical Reserve Corps chapters.

His comments came during a discussion on building surge capacity when hospitals are inundated with patients during disasters.

The chapters, which were created after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, are made up of volunteers who are either from the medical community or citizens who donate their time and expertise throughout the year and during a time of community need.

These volunteers can help with simple events such as assisting with school vaccinations.

Currently, there are three reserve chapters in Nevada, in Washoe and Clark counties and in Carson City.


Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 10:30am

unfortunately, a good percentage of the medical reserve corps are nurses and doctors and respiratory therapists who are employed in hospitals.  Activating them will be taking them away from the hospitals in which they work--basically using your mastercard to pay your visa.

bummer, huh?
gardener
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 11:31am
The training I have is a few FEMA certs, Emergency Preparedness Core Competencies for All Public Health Workers: Part I, and a mass dispensing cert....not enough.

Even my CPR training is outdated.

I set up an entire pool program, training lifeguards, and WSIs but that was about 10 years ago. Now I just use common sense, try to do no harm and learn on my own.

Back to Top
Scotty View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: March 06 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 11:56am
Apologies Dlugose and Gardener. I ought not to jump to conclusions about pubs I haven't seen and beer I haven't tasted. I want you both to know that this apology has caused me enormous pain and suffering. (shall I bluff it out or just concede defeat)

Back to Top
Dlugose View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: July 28 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 277
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by gardener gardener wrote:

unfortunately, a good percentage of the medical reserve corps are nurses and doctors and respiratory therapists who are employed in hospitals.  Activating them will be taking them away from the hospitals in which they work--basically using your mastercard to pay your visa.

bummer, huh?
gardener
I agree, and they need to recruit more widely.  Some MRCs get a significant number of non-medical professionals, which would help some.  You don't force anyone out of their usual work when you call on MRC's. You ask them if they are available.  I for one would put in some extra hours with my MRC, not leave my job.  The Red Cross does not make much use of nurses and doctors, I hope that changes but don't think it will soon.  After Katrina it was much easier to volunteer for a smaller less bureaucratic organization.  One of my points is there is a method in place for new volunteers to get involved.
Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 1:42pm
Hi Dan, not in my little town in massachusetts but I am working within the public health system there as a volunteer in waiting. They will call when the time comes, if the time comes. For now it is just committee work and the most training you can obtain before the time comes.

Most will be on the job training. I am glad I am a quick study.
Back to Top
Dlugose View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: July 28 2006
Location: Colorado
Status: Offline
Points: 277
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2006 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Jhetta Jhetta wrote:

 
Question Dan: Is it your understnding that while organizations such as the CDC provide general guidelines for establishing negative pressure isolation, it’s up to the facility to determine the best solution for their needs and to incorporate the solution into an overall preparedness plan
TNPI seems to be a new development, or the terminology anyways, looks like a good idea.  It seems to me that the CDC talks about specific diseases such as TB or SARS and what clinicians will be trying to achieve, depending on things like anticipated droplet size, virulence, persistence of the microbe, etc. and their experts suggest some specifics of what the clinicians should try to achieve, and it is more or less up to hospital engineers to figure out how to do that given their engineering knowlege and what other hospitals have tried, and budgetary considerations.  Note CDC has no influence in getting funding to hospitals for needed improvements of capacity most of the time.
 
 
On SARS which would be more relevant, this is interesting:
In March through April, 2003, Taiwan had a total of 764 negative-pressure rooms. Most were specially designed isolation rooms with HEPA-filtered air, negative pressure under continuous electronic monitoring, separate bathroom, and anteroom so that two doors separate the SARS patient from the rest of the hospital. The Center for Disease Control in Taiwan tracked available isolation rooms on an ongoing basis, and all of the first 23 probable case-patients were cared for in such negative-pressure rooms, located in 15 hospitals across the island. Resources in the highly affected areas of Hong Kong, Singapore, and Toronto may have been quite similar or superior to those in Taiwan. In contrast, neither of the two hospitals treating SARS patients in Hanoi had negative-pressure rooms, and such rooms were not commonly available in hospitals in Thailand, Laos, or other Asian countries
Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 4:06pm
I wouldn't have any facilities for creating a negative pressure room, but I do have one with an extractor fan.  Do you guys think it is worth fitting extractor fans in other rooms?  Would they pull out contaminated air well enough to make a sick room appreciably safer?  They pull out moisture and cooking smells.
Beth
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2006 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by gardener gardener wrote:

You need a script for this stuff, unless it is labeled for veterinary use.
 
I just tried.  I froogled for normal saline and 0.9% saline and found nothing.  If you look for lactated ringers you'll get IV fluid bags, if that's the fluid you want.  I froogled "IV veterinary" to find IV tubing sets, and IV catheter" to get the needle sets.
 
If you find a source for liter bags of normal saline, let me know. 
 
gardener
 
p.s.  I lied.  I just looked more closely at the website.  You even need a script for veterinary use.
 
Gardener,
I went to ebay and you can buy the oxygen making machine (my mom has copd) on there used, is that illegal? Jo
Back to Top
MBattaglia View Drop Down
Experienced Member
Experienced Member
Avatar

Joined: August 20 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MBattaglia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2006 at 6:54am
Dear Gardener,

I think that many individuals will be allergic to the avian flu once it hits pandemic status therefore I propose the following OTC therapy...

We need to make a difference for the lay person to administer first-aid to family members who fall victim to an avian flu pandemic. My protocol enlists over-the-counter medicines, generic and available worldwide to stop the first signs of cytokine storm where no prescription medicines are available



Remember for example the citings of folks who were struck by the pandemic avian flu in 1918-1919:



People were struck with illness on the street and died rapid deaths. One anectode shared of 1918 was of four women playing bridge together late into the night. Overnight, three of the women died from influenza (Hoagg). Others told stories of people on their way to work suddenly developing the flu and dying within hours (Henig). One physician writes that patients with seemingly ordinary influenza would rapidly "develop the most viscous type of pneumonia that has ever been seen" and later when cyanosis appeared in the patients, "it is simply a struggle for air until they suffocate," (Grist, 1979). Another physician recalls that the influenza patients "died struggling to clear their airways of a blood-tinged froth that sometimes gushed from their nose and mouth," (Starr, 1976). The physicians of the time were helpless against this powerful agent of influenza.



Obviously my algorithm would do the greatest good for the most people if they were instructed to purchase enough Histamine 1 and Histamine 2 blockers along with bronchodilators in advance of a pandemic. These agents are OTC. If anaphylaxis is stopped during the first 20 minutes patients may not need to go to the ER/ED unless the avian flu virus progresses to pneumonia. People being prepared with this protocol will quell panic. Possibly cardiac patients will need a different regimen. Again here is my simple algorithm:

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

PROPHYLAXIS TO ANAPHYLACTIC RESPONSE AND CYTOKINE STORM OF PANDEMIC AVIAN FLU:



Please consider a simple algorithm for individuals exposed to and showing signs of anaphylactic sickness to an avian flu strain transmissible to people.



Histamine 1 blocker = Benadryl (diphenhydramine) 25-50 mg qid generic tab or chewable



Histamine 2 blocker = Pepcid (famotidine) 20 mg qid generic tab or chewable



Bronchodilator        = Primatene Mist (epinephrine) .22 mg x 2 puffs inhaled q 3 hr



Stay home, wear a filter mask so as not to transmit virus, rest, eat a balanced diet, drink plenty of non-alcoholic and non-caffeinated beverages and continue OTC medication for 2-3 weeks or until medical treatment is available.



________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________







A pharmaceutical company ALKERMES has AIR EPINEPHRINE in phase 1 trials, perhaps with your coaxing they might add powderized diphenhydramine and powderized famotidine to powderized epinephrine for a prescription strength inhaled combination product for cytokine storm agent. Perhaps a product like this can be fast-tracked for acceptance. Please enlist your professional connections to make a difference for mankind.




Back to Top
PATB View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: July 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 152
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PATB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 11:05am
My mom said thru the 1918 flu her own mother and her tended the sick. She believes they were more resistent to big, bad germs because they were growing and canning most foods. They had very little meat and lived with 6-8 people in one house, everyone contributed.  It was hard, but some did make it and her side of the family lived long lives. I would have said the odds were against them.
Pat
Back to Top
Mississipp Mama View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: January 20 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 524
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mississipp Mama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 2:09pm
  Hi MBattaglia, thanks for the information.  I will be sure to pick some of these items up.  At what point would you use these item if a person gets the flu?   Thanks a lot.
Back to Top
Mississipp Mama View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: January 20 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 524
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mississipp Mama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 2:14pm
  MBattaglia I for got to ask you, what is Algorithm?  Where can I get some information on it? 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2006 at 3:45pm
Hi MBattaglia: Welcome to the forum. You sound like a med person. The more the merrier! Are you?

That is quite a protocol you are suggesting.  I am interested. How do I recognize this anaphylactic response? How would I know to when to give it to someone to catch it within 20 minutes? I am really afraid that my young adults won't be able to breathe. This is such a fear of mine that I would try anything if my child or someone elses child in my care cannot breathe but I do not want to harm anyone so I must make sure. Is there someone that I should not give this to?

Thanks in advance.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down