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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

BF will now just be a thing of the past

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legacy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 10:29am
and p.s., Although I don't necessarily trust China completely either, please be careful, Cruiser, about presuming to speak for the "540 other viewers here"
I do everything my Rice Crispies tell me to....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 10:32am
Beamoth, I think that the comments here aren't a reflection of the Chinese as a people but rather the Chinese government.  Most Chinese ex-patriots would agree that their government doesn't necessarily share information with the outside world, puts their own slant on it when they do, etc.  I have two close friends who are Chinese, they are the most hardworking, kindest, loving people you've ever met.  Most of us have people within our circles who are Asian or of that descent, so it's not that they're slamming them, it's the government that they're slamming.
And most of us have raised eyebrows at our own governments too - I've read things on questions about our US government, the British governments, etc. - we've all raised the questions, raised an eyebrow and made the comments about various governments and their credibility in certain regards. 
Keep it cool folks..... remember to "loooovvvveeeee" one another and go visit the Tiki room if you need to cool off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Beamoth Beamoth wrote:

I'm half Chinese and I don't appreciate people people insulting part od my culture. Also I find it an incredibly lame argument.
 
Beamoth, distrust of a particular country is not the same as distrust of it's people. I'm an American and there are many aspects of my own government I don't trust. I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked. One of my very best friends is Japanese, I know you're not Japanese, but it's certainly not the case that I don't like or have some kind of adversion to a people because of race or even foreigness (is that a word?). I haven't seen anyone on AFT show any signs of being prejudice and I doubt Albert would allow it anyway. I'm glad you're here. My experience has been that everyone has something to contribute, I look forward to your contributions.
BTW, I'll be going to China in Feb or March as long as bf doesn't break out before. I can hardly wait, I've never been there,  but the pictures I've seen are beautiful and I've heard the Chinese people are most gracious hosts. I just get upset when the Chinese government withholds sequences and also I do wonder why the Chinese people cannot access the rest of the internet without serious repercusions. And why do they get thrown in prison for reporting things that are not popular? I love all people of the world and get angry at repression.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 10:43am
BeaMoth Your last post is welcome and would have been enough of a reply for me. If I have insulted you I am sorry. I hope you can get to the point faster next time as isulting others is not right either. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 11:11am
BEAMOTH I have to ask, the topic of this post is a strang one for a new member to post. Most people start by saying Hi I am so and so, and by the way I......
If you felt so strong that this is a non-event then why did you come to us and make a post at all?
Why even look back at us?
What could your motive be, to get us to stop prepping? 
And If so what harm could we do by buying preps( many of them made in China by the way) and helping each other deal with our own phobeas as you call them.  
Do you have reservations about your own conclusions that we might help you with?
Are you concerned about Bird Flu or Anyother Global Pandemic? If so talk to us about them. If not then enjoy the rewards of your conclusion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beamoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 11:58am
Oh it's ok. I haven't taken the attacks so personaly.   I just beleive if you are going to discredit my post e.g. the article I posted it SHOULD BE a little more than mistrusting China. And if you do mistrust the Chinese government say so don't attacks its people i.e. for example; the scientist.

I'm quit bored arguing this point actualy. Let's quit with the ad hominem attacks and find out what could be interesting about this article.

Can what the Chinese scientist know help us?
It was all a dream wasn' t it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 12:12pm
time will tell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by Cruiser Cruiser wrote:

Since there seems to a genuine concern over Tamiflu having an effect in the wild from it entering the ecosystem through our sanitary systems, can we expect similar downstream effect of the vaccines pumped into chickens we then consume?????  Here is the silly question, are we then going to be imunized from eating vaccinated chicken?? 
 In the study you are referring to, several rivers were studied, calculating how much excreted Tamiflu might be in therivers if lots of people were taking it during a pandemic.  If a tiny river flowed by a large city, the drug might be concentrated enough for birds to get enough drug to acquire viruses that are drug resistant.  One of the only examples found in America was the lower Colorado River where little water is left before flowing into MExico.  More rivers in Britain were found.
 
We would more likely kill flocks of avian flu sick chickens than vaccinate a lot.  China has shown that vaccination against H5N1 in chickens did not work well.  The best way to make sure Federal agencies like USDA, FDA, and OSHA actually regulate inspect, and punish offending private industries, to protect the public rather than protecting profits, is to vote the pro-business administrations out of office, and complain to congressmen every time they are not doing their job such as in this years' failure of regulation of the mining industry, causing deaths. 
Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by Beamoth Beamoth wrote:

Oh it's ok. I haven't taken the attacks so personaly.   I just beleive if you are going to discredit my post e.g. the article I posted it SHOULD BE a little more than mistrusting China. And if you do mistrust the Chinese government say so don't attacks its people i.e. for example; the scientist.

I'm quit bored arguing this point actualy. Let's quit with the ad hominem attacks and find out what could be interesting about this article.

Can what the Chinese scientist know help us?
 
Yes I think the Chinese scientist are exceptional..it's only that I have little faith that what they learn is/will be released to the rest of the world. IMHO the Chinese people as a whole have superior intellect, unless that is they just hide the dumb ones, lol. People tell me I'm pretty sharp, but every Chinese person I've ever met, thinks circles around me..doubletime!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 1:22pm

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 1:37pm
.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote emmajones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by vstr vstr wrote:

Mother nature dosent give enough warning nor do terrorists or enemy combatants. Prep on. Pray for time, time needs to be on our side.


I agree, prep on. If it isn't BF, it will be something else.

The Stand is one of my all-time favorite books. I read the uncut version first. Later I went to the library to re-read it, accidentally got the edited - I felt cheated! Ran out and bought the uncut version, read it till it fell apart. I need to get another one
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by quickdraw quickdraw wrote:

Originally posted by Cruiser Cruiser wrote:

Originally posted by Beamoth Beamoth wrote:

Timber, Cruiser and Rodin.

What do human rights abuses in China have to do with Bird Flu vaccination? And how is China "king of the propoganda machine"? What propoganda have you all seen coming from China that's so unjust and falty?
 
Short answer: EVERYTHING!  You have to be pulling my leg here and I couldn't possibly know where to begin to justify a reply!  Again China is a self-serving Communist country and a story such as this serves only one purpose and that is to stop the bleeding on their already vulnerable poultry trade.  Sit back and relax, nothing to get too excited about here.
 
 
I agree with you cruiser,I trust China about as far as I can throw them.
Bottom line, their full of it.
China on freedom of the press in health ................................
 
China sentences journalist to three years in jail

New York, January 25, 2006—The Committee to Protect Journalists condemns the three-year jail sentence given to Chinese journalist Li Changqing on Tuesday. The Gulou district court in southern China's Fuzhou city convicted Li of "spreading false and alarmist information," defense lawyer Mo Shaoping told CPJ.

The charge was linked to an article published on the banned Chinese-language Web site Boxun News exposing an outbreak of dengue fever in Fujian province before the authorities officially announced it.

But Mo told CPJ his client was the victim of factors "outside the law." Li, who worked for the newspaper Fuzhou Daily, was detained in early 2005 after supporting whistleblower Huang Jingao. Huang was sentenced to life in prison in November 2005 on corruption charges after he publicly exposed official misconduct in a letter to the People's Daily newspaper.

China is the world's leading jailer of journalists, with 32 imprisoned in December 2005, according to CPJ research.

"This is a terribly unjust punishment for a journalist who has committed no crime," said CPJ Executive Director Ann Cooper. "Li Changqing should be released immediately and unconditionally."
http://www.cpj.org/news/2006/asia/china25jan06na_2.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2006 at 7:53pm
Originally posted by Dlugose Dlugose wrote:

  The best way to make sure Federal agencies  punish offending private industries, to protect the public rather than protecting profits, is to vote the pro-business administrations out of office, and complain to congressmen every time they are not doing their job such as in this years' failure of regulation of the mining industry, causing deaths. 
 
Very sensitive and sore subject for me.  The company I work for indirectly deals with the coal mining industry which is by far the most environmentally unfriendly industry in the world.  Our vulnerability not only as a nation but as human beings on this planet are being irreversibly jeopardized in ways not known to the average occupant of this planet.  Al Gore has built an entire political career based on our abuses of the lack luster waste-water controls we have in place here in the US but are a quantum leap in comparison to emerging industrial nations blatant disregard for their coal industies impact on the environment  they so depend on. 
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Very well said, Cruiser.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote poultryvet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2006 at 6:35am
I apologize - missed the question about humans gaining immunity from eating vaccinated poultry.  Short answer is no - would require an extremely unusual and unlikely chain of events with killed influenza vaccines in poultry.  It would be more likely with modified live influenza vaccines, but still unlikely since most birds would be vaccinated long enough before slaughter that vaccine virus would probably not be there any more.  Very unlikely with vectored influenza vaccines since the vectors I have heard of do not replicate in humans.

Sorry so slow - Merry Christmas!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margreth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2006 at 6:15pm
I have read aboat a hundred of conditions of which the gene has been found. For most illness , finding the gene has not bought anyone that much closer to a cure for MS and huntings and on and on.
Scientist love these articles but they dont mean much for the average person.
    
The door to hell locked from the inside. The key to being all that you can be is yours to use. Find your power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KOMET163B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2006 at 6:01am

Let's prep, this is a joke. I have seen this thing before and I know that waiting for the proof is prudent.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Margreth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 20 2006 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Beamoth Beamoth wrote:

A scare and nothing more. Looks like a Vaccine is quickly on its way.




Now the rest of you on this board can quit worrying.




Chinese scientists identify deadly gene in H5N1
Mon Nov 6, 5:12 AM ET
HONG KONG (Reuters) - Chinese scientists have identified a gene in the H5N1 bird flu virus which they say is responsible for its virulence in poultry, opening the way for new vaccines.

ADVERTISEMENT

There are many different strains of H5N1, some of which kill more than half the people they infect, while others do little or no harm.

"We can now understand how this virus becomes lethal and the molecular basis for its pathogenicity," Bu Zhigao at the Harbin Veterinary Research Institute told Reuters.

The Chinese researchers zeroed in on the virulent gene after analyzing two closely related strains of the H5N1 obtained from infected geese in southern Guangdong province in 1996 -- one highly pathogenic in chickens and the other harmless.

Differences between the two strains were located in four genes, they found.

The scientists designed four genetically modified viruses each containing one of the four genes in question and tested them on laboratory chickens.

Only chickens infected with the modified virus containing the highly pathogenic gene died. The other chickens had no signs of disease, the scientists wrote in the November issue of the Journal of Virology.

"Now that we know the special role of the (highly pathogenic) NS1 gene, we can think about developing a vaccine," Bu said, adding that a vaccine which neutralizes the gene known as NS1 could be quickly designed.

"Technically, that can happen very soon, but it is the tests and other procedures that will take a long time."

The scientists are from the Ministry of Agriculture's Animal Influenza Laboratory, the National Key Laboratory of Veterinary Biotechnology, Chinese Academy of Agricultural Sciences, and the Harbin Veterinary Research Institute.

H5N1 remains largely a disease in birds although it has killed over 150 people, mostly in Asia, since 2003. Experts fear that it can spark a pandemic and kill millions of people if it begins to transmit efficiently among humans.
    


Again another article where they found the gene. They have found the gene for MS and Huntings and several others . Scientist are far from making this imformation useful. Finding the gene does not qualifile as finding a cure or a vacination. It just means they found the gene.     
The door to hell locked from the inside. The key to being all that you can be is yours to use. Find your power
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KOMET163B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2006 at 4:27am
Efforts to con us into not prepping won't work.  Prep on and prep until it gets done. The simple fact is that the bird flu is coming and until a proven vaccine is actually in my hands, prepping will be a way of life.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2006 at 6:29am
I would suggest that even if a vacine DOES come about, prepping should continue to be our way of life.  Lots of other 'Gotchas' in this world, and AF is only one of them.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill 100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 21 2006 at 7:29am
Even if the threat of avian flu dose fizzle out, it could be just a case of changing names.
 

USATODAY.com - Bird flu may become latest disease to jump to humans.

Posted 2/19/2006 6:42 PM

Bird flu may become latest disease to jump to humans ST. LOUIS (AP) — Humans risk being overrun by diseases from the animal world, according to researchers who have documented 38 illnesses that have made that jump over the past 25 years. An Indian veterinarian inspects chickens Sunday, a day after the country's first outbreak was confirmed.By Sebastian D'Souza, AFP/Getty Images

That's not good news for the spread of bird flu, which experts fear could mutate and be transmitted easily among people. There are 1,407 pathogens — viruses, bacteria, parasites, protozoa and fungi — that can infect humans, said Mark Woolhouse of the University of Edinburgh in Scotland. Of those, 58% come from animals. Scientists consider 177 of the pathogens to be "emerging" or "re-emerging." Most will never cause pandemics. Experts fear bird flu could prove an exception. Recent advances in the worldwide march of the H5N1 strain have rekindled fears of a pandemic. The virus has spread across Asia into Europe and Africa. Controlling bird flu will require renewed focus on the animal world, including the chickens, ducks and other poultry that have been sacrificed by the tens of millions to stem the progress of the virus, experts said at a news conference late Sunday at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. "The strategy has to be looking at how to contain it in the animal world, because once you get into the human side, you're dealing with vaccines and anti-retrovirals, which is a whole new realm," said Nina Marano, a veterinarian and public health expert with the National Center for Infectious Diseases.

Bird flu has killed at least 91 people — most of them in Asia — since 2003, according to the World Health Organization. It appears to kill about half the people it infects. However, should it mutate so it can pass from human to human, it likely will grow far less deadly, said Dr. Stanley Lemon, of the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston. "It is very unlikely that it would maintain that kind of case mortality rate if it made the jump," Lemon said. Each year, one or two new pathogens and multiple variations of existing threats infect humans for the first time. That pace appears to be unsustainable in the long run because it would imply that people run the risk of being overrun, Woolhouse told reporters. "Humans have always been attacked by novel pathogens. This process has been going on for millennia. But it does seem to be happening very fast in these modern times," Woolhouse said. Woolhouse argues that either many of those diseases and other afflictions will not persist in humans or that there is something peculiar today allowing so many of them to take root in humans. One explanation may be the recent and wide-scale changes in how people interact with the environment in a more densely populated world that is growing warmer and in which travel is faster and move extensive, Marano said.

Those changes can ensure that pathogens no longer stay restricted to animals, she added. Examples from recent human history include HIV, Marburg, SARS and other viruses. That prospect leaves open the question of what future threats await humans. "It always surprises us. We think that avian flu will be the next emerging disease. My guess is something else might come out before that," said Alan Barrett, of the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston. "It's very hard to anticipate what comes next."

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