Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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Wolfgang, I'm certainly no expert on what the police in New Orleans did in the aftermath of Katrina. But I wonder if the search of the houses of registered gun owners you alluded to, was done because the homes were vacant, abandoned or unlivable and it was feared that any guns left on those premises would be stolen by looters? Look, I own several handguns and rifles......all legally owned. Do you think the police would be within their rights to seize one of my handguns if I left it in the glove box of my unlocked car? I'd say yes for the simple reason that it's unsafe to allow easy access to a gun for whoever happens to be walking by. In New Orleans, I guess the problem would have been easy access by the public to guns in unsecured or abandoned homes. The problem for the registered gun owner would then be how to reclaim their confiscated property. In the case of Katrina, I would imagine any ownership records the gun owner had, might have been washed away or destroyed in the flood waters. Proving ownership might have been next to impossible, so reclaiming weapons might have been impossible. Now I'm not saying that this is what happened down there, because I just don't know. But I would think a concentrated search for weapons in every home, secured or unsecured, in New Orleans after the flooding would have been a monumental task even under ideal circumstances. But were they conficating these weapons because there was a problem they had to deal with or because they just felt like breaking the law and had nothing better to do? |
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detpat
Valued Member Location: Pennsylvania Joined: March 02 2006 Location: pgh pa Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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nope, they were going door to door and stealing guns from people who were present. they were instructed by the chief of police and the mayor to do this and most confiscating officers were from jurisdictions outside of NO LA.
the city was slapped with a laawsuit and lost immediately. i watched the newsclip where the mayor stated that he ordered police t start the confiscations. No criminal activity was involved and much of the criminal activity that occured during Katrina involved th NOPD anyway. pat |
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never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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detpat,
Really? In the civil action you mentioned, was it the city that lost immediately or the people initiating the suit that lost? I'm surprised they were able to confiscate many weapons period. I mean, people had to know it was going on and word of the illegal searches and seizures would have had to spread like wildfire, wouldn't it? I'm surprised that those people didn't hide their weapons beforehand. I know I would have and in all the devastion that happened in that city, I don't think it would have been too difficult to find places to stash my weapons. |
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R.C. detpat is right. They were going to peoples occupied homes and seizing weapons without a warrant, or any probable cause of a crime.
I'm all for officer safety. But I'm more for the constitution. In a disaster situation where the goverment is unable to provide police protection, the people have to be able to protect themselves. |
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Hi, I found some interesting targets that you can download and print out free. They have a Saddam Head, a Bin Laden head and torso and many other targets. WWW.GLOCKFAQ.COM enjoy. |
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detpat
Valued Member Location: Pennsylvania Joined: March 02 2006 Location: pgh pa Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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iirc, the tactical team from CHP was one of the worst offendders, of course you have ray nagin to thank for the spate of legislation around the us that forbids such criminal acts in a disaster situation.. i also understand that there were some out of state leo groups that quietly declined to participate.
pat |
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never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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I've had those. The problem is I waste all my ammo. |
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detpat, didn't they pass a Federal law preventing that? |
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detpat
Valued Member Location: Pennsylvania Joined: March 02 2006 Location: pgh pa Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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actually, no. the feds passed a law stating that no federal funding may be used to pay for such a thing, but as you are probably aware folks have already cooked all sorts of ways of getting around that. these usually involve local money and or groups doing the property stealing.
unfortunately i see this sort of thing ending in violence someday. although many states have passed their own laws forbidding this loathsome practice on their level. pat |
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never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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njsgt
Experienced Member Joined: January 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Pat and Mach,
the out of state carry law the feds passed still has a lot of holes in it, and cause problems for cops. if you are current leo's and out of state carrying you must act as a civilian. differnet states have different laws. if you carry onto school property in njwith a weapon its automatic 4th degree crime. hollow point round are also illegal to carry in a weapon. in sc, you can't carry in certains public buildings- hospitals, old age homes, liquor store ect. if your a cop carrying in a different state watch out - will you be covered in lawsuite by the town you work for? when i carry out of state i lay low and only plan on using weapon when there is no other alternative. |
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hmm.... hollow point illegal to caryy in a weapon, what are the legalities if you use your weapon without the type of round that you qual with?
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Mach or any one,
I am seriously thinking about getting a rossi .223 rifle with a good scope.
This is a single shot rifle. It has a heavy bull barrel and no iron sights.
I hope that everyone has diclipline when it comes to firearms. This combo
does not need massive firepower. One shot is all you need for one bad guy. You can get the combo models. With the combo models you get a rifle barrel and a shotgun barrel. The rifle will accept either barrel. I have a shotgun. What do yall think?
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Tigger, I've seen these. They nice plinker's, but unless you can't afford better I wouldn't bet on them is a self-defense roll. Yes yo only need 1 shot, but what if you miss, or there are more than 1 bad guy?
I could understand the Rossi as a backup to a Mini or AR, but not as my sole defensive rifle. |
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Wolf, Thanks, I respect you and more. I have come more and more to rely on the wisdom of our members. It is not hard to see where the wisdom is.
I am looking for a simple rifle. I am looking for one that will hold up. I am a good shooter. You ought to see my sister. I am glad she is on my side.
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Tigger2,
I'm a big fan of the AR-15 Carbine 16" barrel. The stopping power with the 55 grain ball round is impressive and better than a .40 cal hollow point from a handgun. It's not too good for hunting since the round does so much damage. If starting from scratch for defense, I would get a good reliable and concelable handgun like a glock in 9mm or .40 cal and an AR-15 with a chrome lined barrel for reliability, with enough magazines for both, and plenty of ammo. |
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Pookey
Valued Member Joined: July 20 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 79 |
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I'm with you on that. If I had to choose only one weapon to bug out with, it would be my AR-15. At just about any range out to around 300 yards, it is superior to most any other alternative. I have my 9 mm Beretta for a side arm, but it would only be used in a pinch for times when I am not carrying my AR. I also have shotguns, but they don't have much better range than my handguns. I think that it is much safer to engage BG's carrying handguns at ranges beyond handgun range.
I am also thinking about a 6.8 mm upper for a spare AR lower, that I have on hand. This seems a good compromise for when you need something heavier than 5.56 mm, but don't want to step up to 308. Like when shooting through brush or at game.
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I too have an unused lower, and was thinking about a 6.8, but I can't find any 6.8 ammo
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First let me say I'm not a 223 / 5.56 fan. Ever since I went down range, (during my army days) and started plucking those little bullets out of the plastic targets, or picking them off the ground next to the target.
That said, I have to accept that the 223 / 5.56 and the AR / M16 rifle is one of the most popular military rifles in the world. Even with all of the above I have to agree with Mach. The Car 15 / M4 is a very handy rifle. (It was my weapon of choice during my SRT days.) The magazines, ammo, and spare parts are readily available. The adjustable stock and light recoil makes it ideal for smaller statue people. Just remember to keep you range under 200 yards. Pookey if the military ever adapts the 6.8 SP round I will jump back on the AR with both feet. Till then I'll stick with my AK or SKS's |
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Mach It's out there. But all ammo is short supply right now. At least to us civilians. The militaries around the world are buying is all up. I really like the ballistics of the 6.8SP. It's a true intermediate round. |
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njsgt
Experienced Member Joined: January 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Mach, yet another hole in the fed law that the states and pd's don't like. no one will no until theres case law. and by then its too late for some poor cop. |
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detpat
Valued Member Location: Pennsylvania Joined: March 02 2006 Location: pgh pa Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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the hollow point ban by NJ isn't a cop issue, it's another unconstitutional restriction by the NJ government. NJ is a predatory state gov and should be avoided by any right thinking citizen. in general, case law has not held that cops using ammo outside of their dept policy is not a legal issue. and as for the status of us regular subjects, only NJ has such draconian laws.
why should there be special laws and priveliges for police only? We shouldn't have special laws for special people. if our rights are ignored, so should all. pat |
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never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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njsgt
Experienced Member Joined: January 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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detpat, i agree 100%, i'm a big time pro gunner for citizens and card carrying nra member. i hate nj gun control laws and how they prevent good citizens from the god given right to bear arms. but you know the job, just cause you disagree with the law doesn't mean you don't enforce it.
the point i was trying to make was if a out-of-state cop came to nj carrying under fed law, he might find himself jammed up if he used his weapon, especially using hollow points. i don't like it but in that kind of incident - its out of my hands in the hands of the prosecutors. |
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njsgt
Experienced Member Joined: January 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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oh yea- if anybody lives in nj, hollow points are not illegal to own, just illegal to use.
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detpat
Valued Member Location: Pennsylvania Joined: March 02 2006 Location: pgh pa Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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or carry in your sidearm.
yup njsgt, this is part of the reason i left le work. pat |
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That is probably the biggest threat to public safety for a 'public safety law' I have ever heard. I guess the govt of NJ would rather have rounds go thru BGs and hit innocent bystanders so the legal gun owner who is protecting his family can be procecuted for harming an innocent person because the round goes thru the BG and strikes someone else.
And who owns rounds that can't use? |
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Mach, I agree. These "Peoples Republic" states could care less about the law bidding homeowner. Only their communistic agenda.
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If ANYONE is on a tight budget and wants a LR just for an emergency self defense role, then it's the Mossin Nagaunt (did I spell that right). They are Russian arms, and this is why people are against them. But the bottom line is they are always on sale at Big 5 for at or around $100. I'm not suggesting this is the best all around gun you can buy, but for the money you can't beat it. I have several friends who bought one just to play with, and they are very satisfied with it for what it is. I think it's a nato round, but not sure. Do I have one? No. I have a Mini-14 with 20 round mags, a 30-30, and a Golden Boy. I don't need one, but if I felt I needed a gun for 'just in case' and only had a hundred bucks,,,,,this is the gun. It's ugly, but don't let the looks deter you. Pretty solid firearm.
B
PS. Sorry for you folks in NJ. Maybe they'll come around soon. Probably not, but hey, I'm in Cali. It gets pretty bad out here, too.
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Westy, you make a good point. There is a firearm for all budgets. The Naguant is a good solid bolt action rifle.
Thou the the round that the Naguant shoots, (7.62x54R) is not a NATO round. It is a widely available surplus round. It is still widely used as a sniper round and a machine gun round by countries that were supplied by Russia. It's been around in one form or another since the late 1800's I would like to add the SKS to the list. It can be had for around $150.00. It shoots the 7.62x39 round. The same round the AK and clones shoots. I have several of these. I think they are "fun" guns. I also hunt with one sometime. |
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Yeah, that would make sense Wolf. An old Russion gun shooting a NATO round. Duh!!!! I'll go beat my head against the wall now |
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If you want to see one in action, rent the movie "Enemy at the Gates".
The nagaunt is deadly in the hans of a Russian sniper.
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Don't beat your self up. It's a common mistake. The 7.62 get you. They measure differently than us. Their 7.62 measures out to a .311 caliber. Our 7.62 measures out to a .308 caliber.
Again you made a excellent point. There is a firearm for every budget. The naguant a strong inexpensive rifle. |
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You guys are crackin me up.. I have a yugoslav sks that has a nato 22mm granade launcher on it, so there might be an old russian gun chambered for a nato round, you never know. |
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No wonder why all there hardware is questionable. They can't even measure millimeters right! |
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It's how they measure that is different. The common way to to measure a rifle bore is from grove to grove. The Russians measure from land to land. Why??? I don't know. That is just what they do. Mach, how does the Yogo shoot? All I've had is Russian and chi-com. |
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The yugo has ejection problems with wolf ammo. winchester works fine, yugo gun doesn't work with ruski ammo? whoda thunk it. I think mit's the varnish in the3 round that makes it stick? i don't know. it has driven me nuts.
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Is not extracting the case, or not throwing it free?
It could be the varnish. Is the chamber pitted? Right not I have more questions than answers |
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OK, for those of you following this thread, Big 5 Sporting Goods is advertising the Mosin Nagant for 75 dollars. I don't remember seeing it this cheap. All of you considering buying a home defense weapon and are on a tight budget, take a few seconds and check this one out.
Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer, etc.
B.
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We live in the northeast and CCW laws are tight. You basically have to prove that someone is trying to murder you or that you carry large sums of money on your person daily to even apply for the permit here.
My husband is in federal law enforcement so we do not have much of a problem with this. All feds are now mandated to carry on DOMESTIC FLIGHTS due to the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
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hmmm... the only state in the northeast that doesn't issue concealed carry permits easily that I know of is NJ
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SNUFFIE
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TRY md IF YOU THINK nj IS TOUGH. sTATE pOLICE EVEN ASKED MMY BANKER FOR MY ACCOUNT NUMBERS
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