Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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Posted: February 15 2007 at 6:47am |
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Ok folks, i've got two questions for ya:
First one: I'm in the market for a dependable .22, something i can shoot either .22LR or .22 Mag out of, and preferably both. There are just too many brands out there and I'd like some insights into them.
I have a .22LR/.22Mag revolver, but it's damned difficult to find parts for cause it hasn't been manufactured for quite a while.
2nd question: Some years ago (like maybe 2000 or 2001) at a gun show in Ft. Worth, i saw what i can best describe as a derringer. It was small, and had a break open type action. Three barrels, two for 410 and one for .45. Anyone know what type of gun this is? I'm thinking something or home defense that even my mom could use in an emergency...She don't care for guns at all, but I think i'd feel safer when I travel out of town knowing that she would have access to something like that. A gun that's straightforward to load and shoot. Odds are, because it only had something like a 2 or 3 inch barrel that the range for really suck, but i can't think of anything else along these lines.
Anyone know what gun I'm talking about?
In reference to my 1st question, I had an AMT automag some years ago, but sold it. It was a pain in the neck to load and the slide always gave me problems.
Suggestions?
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Fiction, The only 22lr / 22mag combo I know of the the Ruger single six. It comes with 2 cylinders, 1 for each cartridge. It is a western style single action pistol. There has been a lot of action in the "cowboy" gun market lately, so a couple other manufactures may be doing the same thing now. I don't know. I won the Ruger, I'm very happy with it.
I don't know of any rifle that chambers both calibers. A 3 barrel derringer?? I've never seen one. I've seen 1,2,and 4 barrel derringers, but not a 3 barrel one. That said most 45 colt derringers can also shoot a 2 1/2" .410. Thanks to Cowboy Action Shooting events there are several companies making these pistols. Check out a "Gun List" paper, or a Cowboy Action shooting magazine. I should point out that all of these pistol are single action, that requires the hammer to be cocked for each shot. Are you sure you Mom can handle that much of a load from such a small gun? If it was my Mom I would give her a simple 38spl revolver. But you do what you think is best. |
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Well, like I said, 'derringer' is probably the wrong word. And it was about five yrs ago, so my memory is probably off, but i'll continue to look for it at any future gun shows.
Mom is a pretty strong woman. But she doesn't like guns. I was just trying to find something that would be lightweight, fairly easy to shoot, and yet have enough 'firepower' to either scare the **** outta someone, or do enough damage to make them think twice, hence the interest in a gun that loads both the 410 and 45 simultaneously.
Then again, she knows where I keep the 22, and where the shotshells are for it.
I'll take a look at that Ruger you mentioned. I'd prefer a semi-auto, but if i want it to fire both LR and Mag, then I'll have to compromise...
Thanks for the info!
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Fiction strong doesn't have much to do with it. I'm no wuss, and I don't like shooting the 410 out of those small guns.
Also they make "shot" shells for most pistol calibers. I have them in 22, 22mag, 38, and 9mm. They work OK on snakes, but I wouldn't trust them for self defense. Just my 2 cents. |
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Again, thanks for the info.
After some thought on the issue, i put together a search string for yahoo and found the gun i had seen at that show...or at least a variant of it. Cobray, Leinad, and FMJ all made one, and the Leinad and FMJ are the closest to what i saw. An over/under arrangement, in .45LC and 410, for about $100...but one of the guns i came across when the query included 'derringer' in the string, brought me to something called a Thunder 5, which was a 'derringer' with a 5-shot cylinder...so more of a revolver than anything else.
Snakes, yeah, that's what i had in mind for the .22 shotshells. I did not mean to imply for self defense against the two-legged critter types.
And after looking over the FMJ and leinad handguns, i'm thinking about it for me instead...to keep in the truck for those long jobs i do...the jobs where having a gun, even a two shot one, might make me feel just a little bit better and safer...lotta jobs lateley that have taken me out in to the brushy areas...
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FictionWriter why dont you get your mom a 22 rifle thats got a 10 round clip?They are easy to shoot,load ect.If I couldnt kill what ever I wanted to with 10 rounds Id give up.Ive had mine since I was 5 and its old the sites are off most people couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with it but its like my right arm I dont even use the sites.Ive never cared for pistols of any kind.I shoot my sons 20 ga shotgun but boy it kicks like a mule.
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Have both the .22 rifle and the 20 ga shotgun.
Talked to her last night about what I was looking for...and she vetoed the idea, rather harshly too. In her words, 'live by the gun, and die by the gun, and she wasn't ready to die just yet. So, if the starving hordes come to our door, I asked her, are you going to feed them our stash?
These days, i get the chance to do that about once or twice a week. Illegals, begging for change. If they see you out in your yard, they hit you up for money for food. And when the pandemic hits, they'll try the same tactic, and it'll be a warning shot or two, before the next is center mass.
I hate to sound so, uhm, harsh, but i'm pretty sure the rest of us here are thinking along these lines. Only reason i wanted to arm mom, is that it's just her and I here. And unfortunately, i can't seem to pull those allnighters like I did in college. At some point i will have to let my guard down and sleep, and that when i'll be the most scared.
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I don't know what to tell you. Is this a SP indoctrination, guns are evil thing? If it is not, I can only hope that when the chips are down she will understand the need for self defense.
Of course you can always tell her that since she doesn't want a gun, she has to become a black belt. I wish you luck on your dilemma. |
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Not sure what 'SP Indoctrination' is. And i'm hopeful that if push comes to shove, she'll pick up a gun.
hmmm, an 84 yr old black belt...i wonder
Thanks for the luck tho...gonna need a lot of thought on this one.
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SP secular progressive, the common politically correct term for communist these days.
I regularly suggest a firearm safety course for non-gun people. The reasoning is that EVERYBODY should be able to make a firearm safe. A little knowledge goes a long way to eliminating ones fear. |
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Snuffie
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Wolfgang, I"ve read some of your reports and you seem to posses a rare thing ... common sence. I"ve handled guns since the age of 8. Took my 22 to school with me. I guesw that comment tells my age. One comment i hav'ent seen posterd about guns is a proper mind set. A oerson can be taught to safely handle a weopon and even become a good shot. Its another thibg for most people to pull the triger on someone even in a desperate situation. Even with military training , it sometimes takes a taste of xxxxx before you respond. For all those who have to use a weopon in self defence, don't try to talk an antagonist to death . Don't count on a weopon unless you realy mean to use it. Pray God, you never have to.
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Oh. ok. Had never heard the term before. But as far as gun safety goes, she does know how to use one. My dad taught her that years ago. He even took her hunting once...but she never could get over the idea of shooting bambi...I see bambi and see venison
Mindset. I had a good friend of mine, some years ago, explain it this way. He was very familiar with guns. He'd served in the army in Angola (he was Cuban). He said he probably fired off thousands of rounds in the jungle, never knowing if he hit anyone. When he came to the states, he had a handgun for protection. Some guy tried to rob him and his wife, so he warned him 'I have a gun and I'm not afraid to use it'. He told me that the witnesses to the event told the cops he rpeated that 3 or 4 times, even as the would be assailant got closer to him and his wife. Then he shot. Up close and personal.
He knew how to use a gun, had been trained to kill with one, yet he was so afraid of the consequences, that his shot was low...but it had the desired effect, shattering the other man's knee.
He told me, that in that split second before he pulled the trigger, that a million things can go through your mind. But it all comes down to, what are you willing to do to protect the ones you love.
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Fiction I agree with you. I belong to PETA. People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. I actually have the tee shirt. A little bit of advise. Don't wear that tee shirt to a cattle auction. Those cowboys get real upset till you get them to read the fine print. Some people just don't have a sense of humor.
Mindset.... Anybody that has taken psych 101 can tell you about fight or flight. Very few can tell you about kill or be killed. I'm afraid no one can describe it to you. But once you cross it the world is different. The importance of certain "things" in life are different. It also gives you an advantage over someone that has never reached that line. Simply because you know where the line is. Fiction don't worry about Mom. If she has the basic's down she will be OK. Snuffie, well said. |
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Johnray1
Valued Member Joined: April 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8159 |
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To all of those who own guns. Do not post how many and what kind of guns you own. Both bad guys and police are readind this and then both will know where to come to take your guns. All that is needed is a pump shotgun for each family member for home defense and plenty of ammo.Shotgun shells are big in size and can be used up very quickly so have many more than you think that you need. Maybe different sizes and different cal. for each family memeber and also plenty of training by a certified firearms instuctor. Do not tell you strenths to anyone because then they will know how to attack you. Johnray1
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Good advice Johnray1!We have a family member that is an NRA certified instructor.I was informed that if you are an owner of a shotgun,one should load it like this.Shot shell etc.I have no compunction in defending my kith and kin, under any circumstances!I live in a semi rural area and I do not belive violence would be a problem,its' the "outsiders" coming into our community, that concerns me the most.
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As for my original question, i found the gun I was looking for. Bond Arms in Texas makes it. .45 over a .410 (or was it .410 over a .45?)
Anyways, as a gun for snakes or other small varmints, i think it might have it's uses. Against a two-legged critter...i'd have to be a damned good shot
And be VERY lucky!
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Johnray1
Valued Member Joined: April 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8159 |
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Anon 54,you are very lucky to have family memeber that is a certified NRA Instructor. Now you and your family need to go a shooting range with him either one at a time or all at a time{it should be his preference} and learn everything that he knows. Johnray1
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Johnray1
Valued Member Joined: April 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8159 |
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Insomniac,get rid of the .22/.22mag. These guns are usually very poor. Get rid of the derringer,they are only made for shooting across tables or under tables,you do not need it and unless it is a very expensive derringer,it will be undependable. Get a 12 gauge pump shoot gun,I prefer Remington. These other 2 guns that are talking about will just get you into trouble or get you killed.Johnray1
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Insomiac is a TROLL
He's trying to hijack my original post to spread his lies...
Where the heck is the report button?
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Johnray1,
The .22/.22WMR is one gun...a revolver, that's an inherited gun...The quality, however, is excellent. I've enjoyed target shooting it for years...Don't have the derringer, and was originally asking about it as a 'last resort' sort of weapon...but i've pretty much talked myself out of it...if that's my last resort...i might as well just give up and die, eh?
Have the shotgun in question...as made by Ithaca...
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randyb
Adviser Group Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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If someone is in the market for a .22 to purchase with the possiblity of using siad weapon for self defense, I would recommend in 22LR a semi-auto like the Ruger 10-22. Its accurate, dependable, and can fire 10 rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger. The rifle is easier to shoot, and the ballistics are better than a pistol. In a .22 mag i would recommend a dependable semi-suto like the Marlin line for the same reason. The .22LR/.22Mag would not be my first choice for self defense, but in a survival situation the wieght oand cost of the ammunition makes it a viable alternative. In handguns the only combos I know of are the Ruger single six and the Heritage arms series. These are single action and slow to reload. I think that again a semi auto like th eBuckmarks or Mark II by ruger would be a good choice. |
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FictionWriter
Valued Member Joined: May 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 77 |
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AMT makes a semi-auto pistol in .22 Mag. I've used it, and found it difficult to reload, until the action was well used. The revolver i was talking about pre-dates the Ruger and Hermitage series...we're talking late 40's maybe early 50's for Sauer and Sohn of west germany. Very tough to find parts.
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Huh? I am a police officer and I *DO NOT* want your guns, nor am I ever going to even attempt to take them from you. I get more than my fair share of lead in my diet just from the shooting I do. I don't need a large dose of lead with the accompanying new breathing hole, thank you very much. Police aren't bad. People with anti authority problems are. You should worry more about your congressman reading this more than a police officer. |
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diego
Valued Member Location: Michigan Joined: June 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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most crooked politicians are to busy working on their latest scam or playing hide the salami with that hot young staffer.
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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Too bad that guest/police officer isn't one of our regular readers, I'd like to talk to him about police preps for pandemic.
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I am not a prophet
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That person is me John.
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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OH, ok. Tell me about what's going on in the force, anyone level headed enough to start pandemic planning? What do you propose to do in case of pandemic, are you authorized to fire on someone breaking quarantine? Will you be handing out emergency supplies? |
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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One of my brothers was a plain clothes detective for the King County Police. He died a couple years ago from a brain tumor. He made good money, had a brand new house. I'm too old to join the force.
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I am not a prophet
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Usual. We're dealing with a bridge that fell down, and responding to the gunshot detectors that our thoughtful big brother installed around the city. I call it a prelude to cameras on every corner of the city, as it hasn't been responsible for a single arrest. Basically we're responding to where someone fired off a few rounds and walked off.
It's not really discussed at my level, but there's some smart people involved. Level headed? I dunno. Who's going to be level headed when facing a Pandemic.
I've already talked about what I'd do. As for shooting people breaking quarantine, not going to happen. I fully understand leaving an area that's infected, and being handled by the government, or being the enforcer of the handling does not appeal to me. I'd walk off if it came to that.
No. The government's stance is that they'll do what they can, but for the most part you're on your own. |
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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Tell me about looting, has it been talked about? Going to shoot them? If they have no money cuz there are no businesses, what then?
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I am not a prophet
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Again, not at my level. In the event of a major catastrophe I assume that they'd hand out M16's to us all and push us out under FEMA control to do whatever it is FEMA dictates.
God, I hope not. I hope it doesn't get to that point. I guess it really depends on how bad it really gets. If it's one of those End of The World scenarios I won't be a police officer anymore, will I? If some came to sack and loot my personal home/family etc, if they push the issue I'll shoot them. In an official status it would really depend on what was being looted, and whether it was a bad situation. If people are taking food because they're starving, hell no. If they're stealing big screen televisions and they react aggressively when told to stop, whatever force they decide to use, I'll reciprocate.
If they have no money and they're stealing food, water, etc from supermarkets only a heartless moron would shoot them. If it gets to the point where there's no businesses, no government, no nothing, I believe my employment has come to an end. I wouldn't don that uniform anymore. It's already like having a giant target on my back and there's no catastrophe underway. |
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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Here's some survival information for you Turboguy. At your police station, do you know where they keep the cop car keys? Do you know what kind of firearms they keep in the trunk? Make sure you don't get into the back of the police car or you'll die there. Can you access the firearms they store in the station itself? Ammo, extra clips? Any food supplies they might have for the inmates? |
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I am not a prophet
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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Here's a tough question for you turboguy, if you are one of the last of the cops, would you shoot the dangerous inmates or let them starve to death? Would you let any of the inmates out, especially those in for minor offenses? What's your plan?
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I am not a prophet
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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In the event of starving to death, I don't think any of us here want to end up in jail during a pandemic. I don't want to die that way myself. Most jail cells have a sink in them, you wouldn't die of thirst but you might eat some of your own fingers. I have gone without food before, you get nauseated and you get a headache.
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I am not a prophet
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I used to be opposed to guns, but when you sit and think about the possibilty of someone armed wanting to take your families preps (and lifeline), principals go out of the window. I don't have a lot of money to spend that my wife would miss (she's not on board yet) so I'm looking at an old Mosin Nagant 91/30. I know - old gun and slow to reload, but much more effective as a deterent than a knife, baseball bat, etc. Big 5 regularly has them on sale - I may go and check out what they've got this weekend. For $84 and $70 for the background check, it'll be a major thing I can check off my to do list. I've researched what to look for (non matching serial numbers, pitted bore, sticky bolt, etc) so hopefully I'll get something that'll do the job for very little outlay.
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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Go to your local sports store, Fred Meyer's carries rifles in the sports section. Also, gun shops could have everything you're looking for.
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I am not a prophet
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I'd like to go shopping but my budget is extremely tight. I haven't seen anything that I'd want to pull the trigger on for as little money as the Mosins at Big 5. I checked on the internet and they have quite a following as long as you're careful about the condition. I've never seen a Fred Meyers in this neck of the woods. Today conspired to stop me picking one up though - a routine trip to the dentists blew my budget further out of the water when I found out I need to have two root canals (spent six hours today between my dentists office and an endodontist to get one fixed), two crowns, and four fillings. Popping ibuprophen and nursing a sore jaw at the moment as the endodontist said one of the roots stopped just short of the sinus cavity in my cheek.
Let this be a lesson to everybody - get your teeth up to par just in case the SHTF and you can't get to a dentist for a while. |
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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Jacksdad, instead of buying a Mosin from a store, you can order them directly from sources like J&G sales, get them in nearly new condition, and not have to deal with screwing around with a gun dealer that's trying to sell you crappy stuff.
You DO NOT WANT A GUN WITH A PITTED BORE! IF IT'S GOT A PITTED BORE IT'S GOT PITTED OTHER STUFF AND MIGHT BLOW UP! IF THE BOLT IS STICKING, IT'S BEEN FIRED WITH OVERPRESSURE CARTRIDGES, DO NOT BUY IT. Non matching serial numbers aren't that big of a deal, but it's nice for collectors. If you don't mind me asking, what city/state do you live in that it'd cost you $70 for a background check on a bolt action long gun? In most cases there is no background check for these weapons outside the standard *FREE* NICS instant check. Caveat Emptor, it sounds fishy to me. For $150 you can buy a mint Mosin Nagant, with 440 rounds of 7.62x54r ammo. I'll find you some links: Ammo http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/7-62x54r-bulgarian-heavy-ball-fmj-ammo%2C-300-rd-sealed-tin-/products_id/1692 Rifle http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/military-bolt-action-rifles/russian/p/mosin-nagant-m-44-laminated-/cPath/209_219_261/products_id/1532 If you call them make sure you ask for and pay the extra $10.00 for "Hand Select." It's very worth it. Buy the M44's as they're more modern and haven't taken the abuse the m38's have. Some of the '44's never saw action, ALL of the 38's did, and they show it. Don't discount these rifles. They're cheap, reliable, accurate, and POWERFUL! The 7.62x54 is nearly as powerful as our 30.06. If push came to shove and you had to shoot someone with this rifle, if you hit them, they're staying down. I've killed deer with mine, and I've seen people take bear with them as well. They do have a stout recoil though, just to warn you. If you get one, get an NRA safety course under your belt, and *PRACTICE* with it. The ammo for them is dirt cheap. you can afford to have a little fun with it. |
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johngardner1
Valued Member Joined: August 20 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 678 |
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We used to target practice every summer we went camping. Even though we never did do disneyland, the camping trips I think were a much better vacation. I've been using guns since I was 5, thats 32 years of experience.
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I am not a prophet
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Thanks for the post turboguy. I'm basing the background check on the experience of a friend who picked up a pump load 12 gauge (I'm in San Diego, Ca). It may well be different for a bolt action gun. I'll call them tomorrow to find out. Thanks for the tips - I plan on making sure the gun I do buy is about as nice as I can find. I've heard horror stories concerning Big 5 Mosins, but I've also heard of people scoring them in almost unused condition. I'll check the links you provided too. Much appreciated :)
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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Ohhh, you live in Kalifornia. Kalifornia is *VERY* not gun friendly, but there shouldn't be any real restrictions on that type of firearm, and definately not any further monetary charge for a free background check. You're not going to be getting your hands on a nice AK or AR as they have the whole detachable magazine deal, but a Mosin is well within the legal status in Kali.
Good luck, I hope you get a good one! |
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diego
Valued Member Location: Michigan Joined: June 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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turboguy, i started working a few months ago for the local metal recycler. a guy came in the other day with a feed sack of once fired brass. scaled in at 125 lbs. we buy cartridge brass at $1.60 per lb. can you read my mind? I'm like a kid in a candy store. when the guards from the prison across the road bring in their firing range brass, comes in by the 55 gal. drum, ( 5.56 & .40 s&w)...... powder & primers, can never have enough.
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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Diego, I hate you...
Once fired? Probably federal brass too isn't it. God, if these guys had any idea exactly what they're giving away. With the price of ammo going through the roof I'm almost looking to maybe buy one of those really nice factory grade reloaders. |
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diego
Valued Member Location: Michigan Joined: June 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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turbo, Dillon progressive? nice stuff, do you get their blue press? I've got over 25 years on my Lyman turret press. also have a rockchucker. favorite cast bullet powders, reddot, unique and herco. speaking of cast, a local brought in a 450lb. block of wheel weights today. going to get some new blades for my sawsall, he,he,he.
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detpat
Valued Member Location: Pennsylvania Joined: March 02 2006 Location: pgh pa Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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I get the blue press, that's a good company.
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never underestimate the power of human stupidity
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