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ChaosMotor
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 4:19pm |
Annie wrote:
The coupling of home equity debt and credit card debt has gone hand in glove for years. ... more are using high-interest credit card cash to pay at least part of their mortgages instead of the other way around. |
Income levels have been static for decades, since the 1970s, however the dollar has been greatly devalued, and living expenses have risen inexorably. First the American family put women to work to make up the difference, then started working longer hours, and finally turned in desperation to credit.
When incomes have no chance of rising, but prices continue to, and you cannot afford what you need NOW, why would anyone think they could put it on credit and pay it off later? You're not going to have more money later, you're going to have the same or less, and it will be worth less!
However, the global credit scam was required to provide the /illusion/ of continued prosperity and income increases to the public, who otherwise would have put intense pressure on the corporate masters to raise wages to livable levels.
This was all a premeditated scheme by the Establishment, the ultra-rich and powerful, complicit with our government, to push the middle class back into the lower class, create an unbreachable gulf between the haves and the have-nots, divert the entirety of wealth accumulation into the hands of those who are already wealthy with more money than they know what to do with, and drive the public out of property ownership and investments, and into debt and bondage. In short, this is a directed and planned scheme to enslave the public with financial obligations instead of whips and iron chains. The result is the same, the methods more insidious and invisible.
Which, among other reasons, is why I never, ever, ever will take debt in the form of credit. I am not a slave. I AM A FREE MAN. You can chain me when I die.
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ChaosMotor
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 4:27pm |
The end of the superbubble
That sound you hear is the popping of a financial bubble in housing, the economy and the market. And you can trace it all to Alan Greenspan's Federal Reserve.
Reading the papers, it's quite clear that the enormity of the problems facing Americans (and the world, for that matter) has emerged to the fore. Consequently, I decided a quick recap of our troubles might be useful.
There is a budding realization that the housing bubble's collapse will be more difficult than the masses and Wall Street had believed. You could see this last week as the market moved back toward the lowest levels since the collapse began last fall.
It's now obvious that this is a problem not only for the consumer but for the financial system itself, which is in dire straits as it tries to deleverage, thereby compounding the problem.
In addition, it has become common to see stories about runaway inflation somewhere around the globe, with riots and protests against high food prices being a binding theme.
A magnificent mirage unmasked For quite a while, many believed that because sovereign wealth funds were deemed to be flush with money, the banks and brokers could just grab some capital from overseas investors and cash-rich nations and go back to doing what they had done before. That has clearly turned out not to be the case.
However, leverage is quite capable of creating the illusion of liquidity. Thus what many had seen as excess liquidity was simply massive leverage, which is now being unwound. (The surfeit of savings, which is what "liquidity" alludes to, never existed.)
All of these problems trace their roots to Alan Greenspan's years at the head of the Federal Reserve.
What began as small bailouts along the way ended with the blowoff of the stock bubble in March 2000. In an attempt to ease the effects of the bubble's collapse, interest rates were taken to the absurdly low level of 1% and held there far too long. That engendered a housing bubble, which was nourished by the abdication of lending standards in the banking system -- as securitization, spearheaded and championed by Greenspan himself, and deregulation of the banking system were thought to be the solutions to any imbalances.
As if that weren't enough, consumers' paychecks are eroding, thanks to galloping inflation created by the money printing that fomented the housing bubble (and by the credit that Greenspan's replacement, Ben Bernanke, has subsequently thrown in to ameliorate the aftermath).
Behold the wretched beast he created The truly sad part is that this outcome was foreseeable. It was possible to anticipate a catastrophe of such dimensions even when the housing boom was still in full swing. Unfortunately, the very institution that had the regulatory authority to supervise the banking system was the one leading the cheering -- namely the Fed, in the form of Greenspan. (That was sort of like putting a bartender in charge of adjudicating disputes over breathalyzer readings.)
The collapse of the housing bubble is taking the economy with it and pressuring the stock market as well. Thus we will have all three markets feeding on each other as each deteriorates.
In his latest book, "The New Paradigm for Financial Markets: The Credit Crash of 2008 and What It Means," George Soros makes the case that we are witnessing the end of a 25-year superbubble.
I certainly agree with his observation and would note that the time frame of this superbubble roughly approximates the career of Alan Greenspan, who in my opinion was responsible for its creation -- and the enormous pain caused by its collapse.
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reality check
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 4:28pm |
gnfin wrote:
Man I sure was wrong? Whats going on? A sucker rally? I just dont get it. Subprime loans,foreclosures,dollar at a all time low,oil prices on the rise ,rumors of war, terriost threats, where do I stop? Arnt safe returns better than risky ones? |
Cash is king...RC
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Posted: July 10 2008 at 4:47pm |
reality check wrote:
Cash is king...RC | Yep!
BIS slams central banks, warns of worse crunch to come
Last Updated: 1:21am BST 01/07/2008
The central bankers' bank renews fear of second depression, writes Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
A year ago, the Bank for International Settlements startled the financial world by warning that we might soon face challenges last seen during the onset of the Great Depression. This has proved frighteningly accurate.
The venerable body, the ultimate bank of central bankers, said years of loose monetary policy had fuelled a dangerous credit bubble that would entail "much higher costs than is commonly supposed".
In a pointed attack on the US Federal Reserve, it said central banks would not find it easy to "clean up" once property bubbles have burst.
If only we had all listened to the BIS a long time ago. Ensconced in its Swiss lair, it has fired off anathemas for years, struggling to uphold orthodoxy against the follies of modern central banking.
"The current market turmoil is without precedent in the postwar period. With a significant risk of recession in the US, compounded by sharply rising inflation in many countries, fears are building that the global economy might be at some kind of tipping point," it said.
"These fears are not groundless. The magnitude of the problems yet to be faced could be much greater than many now perceive," it said. "It is not impossible that the unwinding of the credit bubble could, after a temporary period of higher inflation, culminate in a deflation that might be hard to manage, all the more so given the high debt levels."
Given the constraints under which the BIS must operate, this amounts to a warning that monetary overkill by the Fed, the Bank of England, and above all the European Central Bank could prove dangerous at this juncture.
European banks have suffered worse losses on US property than American banks. Their net dollar liabilities are $900bn, mostly short-term loans that have to be rolled over, a costly business with spreads still near panic levels. Mortgage and consumer credit has "demonstrably worsened".
The BIS cautions the ECB to handle its lending data with great care. "The statistics may understate the contraction in the supply of credit," it said.
The death of securitisation has forced banks to bring portfolios back on to their balance sheets, while firms in need are drawing down pre-arranged credit lines. This is a far cry from a lending recovery.
Warning signs are flashing across Eastern Europe (ex-Russia) where short-term foreign debt is 120pc of reserves, mostly in euros and Swiss francs. Current account deficits are 14.6pc of GDP.
"They could find it difficult to secure foreign funding if global financing conditions were to tighten more severely," it said. Swedish, Austrian and Italian banks have drawn on wholesale markets to lend heavily to subsidiaries across the region. This could "dry up".
China is not immune, although the BIS has dropped last year's comment that growth is "unstable, unbalanced, unco-ordinated and unsustainable".
The US accounts for 20pc of China's exports, but that does not capture the inter-links across Asia that ultimately depend on US shopping malls. "There is a risk that China's imports overall could slow down sharply should the US economy weaken further," it said.
Global banks - with loans of $37 trillion in 2007, or 70pc of world GDP - are still in the eye of the storm.
"Inter-bank money markets have failed to recover. Of greatest concern at the moment is that still tighter credit conditions will be imposed on non-financial borrowers.
"In a number of countries, commercial property prices are beginning to soften, traditionally bad news for lenders. These real-financial interactions are potentially both complex and dangerous," it said.
Do not count on a fiscal rescue. "Explicit and implicit debts of governments are already so high as to raise doubts about whether all non-contractual commitments will be fully honoured."
Dr White says the US sub-prime crisis was the "trigger", not the cause of the disaster. This is not to exonerate the debt-brokers. "It cannot be denied that the originate-to-distribute model (CDOs, CLOs, etc) has had calamitous side-effects. Loans of increasingly poor quality have been made and then sold to the gullible and the greedy," he said.
Nor does it exonerate the watchdogs. "How could such a huge shadow banking system emerge without provoking clear statements of official concern?"
But there have always been excesses in booms. What has made this so bad is that governments set the price of money too low, enticing the banks into self-destruction.
"The fundamental cause of today's emerging problems was excessive and imprudent credit growth over a long period. Policy interest rates in the advanced industrial countries have been unusually low," he said.
The Fed and fellow central banks instinctively cut rates lower with each cycle to avoid facing the pain. The effect has been to put off the day of reckoning.
They could get away with this as long as cheap goods from Asia kept a cap on inflation. It seduced them into letting asset booms get out of hand. This is where the central banks made their colossal blunder.
"Policymakers interpreted the quiescence in inflation to mean that there was no good reason to raise rates when growth accelerated, and no impediment to lowering them when growth faltered," said the report.
After almost two decades of this experiment - more or less the Greenspan years - the game is over. Debt has reached extreme levels, and now inflation has come back to life.
The easy trade-off has metamorphosed into a vicious trade-off. This was utterly predictable, and was indeed forecast by the BIS, which plaintively suggested in this report that central banks might like to think of an "exit strategy" next time they try such ploys.
In effect, this is an indictment of rigid inflation targets (such as Britain's), which prevent central banks from launching a pre-emptive strike against asset bubbles. In the 1990s, they should have torn up the rule-book and let inflation turn negative in light of the Asia effect.
The BIS suggests that a mix of "systemic indicators" should be used. The crucial objective is to slow credit growth and make sure that the punchbowl is taken away before the drunks run riot. "We need policy measures to lean against credit-drive excess," it said.
If there are going to be more bail-outs on both sides of the Atlantic - as there will be - the "socialised risks" should be taken on by political systems, and not dumped on the books of central banks.
"Should governments feel it necessary to take direct actions to alleviate debt burdens, it is crucial that they understand one thing beforehand.
If asset prices are unrealistically high, they must fall.
If savings rates are unrealistically low, they must rise.
If debts cannot be serviced, they must be written off.
"To deny this through the use of gimmicks and palliatives will only make things worse in the end," he said.
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coyote
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 8:11am |
STOCK JITS: FIGHT TO KEEP 11,000...
Mortgage lenders in shares meltdown...
'Israeli warplanes practice in Iraq'...
Oil sets new record near $147 barrel...
Time to fasten your seatbelts!
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Long time lurker since day one to Member.
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quietprepr
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 8:38am |
ChaosMotor wrote:
[QUOTE=Annie]
When incomes have no chance of rising, but prices continue to, and you cannot afford what you need NOW, why would anyone think they could put it on credit and pay it off later? You're not going to have more money later, you're going to have the same or less, and it will be worth less!
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Many are doing this because they don't have a choice. They are delaying the inevitable personal financial crash they are headed for. I guess if I had no food for my children and all I had was a credit card...I'd do the same. Thankfully, I have not put myself or my family in that position. There are very desparate times ahead.......
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"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming
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Levygoddess
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 3:03pm |
There are some people starting to panic....on one blog someone got their electric bill and is freaking out!!!! Here is the deal, if you cant pay the electric bill, the city will kick you out of the house.....so I think he is packing up and leaving in a travel trailer!!!
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God put us here for a reason
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Levygoddess
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 3:03pm |
They just announced 200 more people are losing their jobs locally.
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God put us here for a reason
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waterboy
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 3:31pm |
Next week will FLOOR you longs!!!!!!!!!DOW DOWN 500 POINTS!!!
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waterboy
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 3:53pm |
BIG CRASH COMING TO WALL STREET SOON.OIL HITS $150.00 NEXT WEEK......CRASH!!!!!!
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H2HPrep
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 4:26pm |
Elect a Socialist and then you'll really see depression.
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 4:42pm |
Gee I just read a Denver Post articel...People Wait In Line for New iPhone. One guy sold his 600.00 iPhone for 570.00 to some other fool and purchased a new iPhone from what I hear costs 20.00 more per month to have.(need to check that one out)
But here is the bottom line people give the Whine Line of the sky is falling but we all have cell phones, boats, ATVs, cars for everyone in the house that drives, jet-skis, snowmoblies, and houses that are way too big, and electric and heat bills that go with those way too big houses.
It is not the banks fault that people mortgaged their house to purchase these toys or that people purchased houses too big for them.
So if the BIG CRASH comes tomorrow it is OUR FAULT.. ego ridden people messed this up look in the mirror if the shoe fits.
Thank you for this rant time!
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H2HPrep
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 5:06pm |
The truth hurts.
Rant On!
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Penham
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 5:56pm |
FluMom wrote:
Gee I just read a Denver Post articel...People Wait In Line for New iPhone. One guy sold his 600.00 iPhone for 570.00 to some other fool and purchased a new iPhone from what I hear costs 20.00 more per month to have.(need to check that one out)
But here is the bottom line people give the Whine Line of the sky is falling but we all have cell phones, boats, ATVs, cars for everyone in the house that drives, jet-skis, snowmoblies, and houses that are way too big, and electric and heat bills that go with those way too big houses.
It is not the banks fault that people mortgaged their house to purchase these toys or that people purchased houses too big for them.
So if the BIG CRASH comes tomorrow it is OUR FAULT.. ego ridden people messed this up look in the mirror if the shoe fits.
Thank you for this rant time! |
Oh my gosh! We went to town today, to run errands and I worked a few hours. We happened to drive by one of the cell phone stores and there was a line wrapped around the building waiting for it to open. I said "what the heck is going on?" my 12 year old says I think the new i phone goes on sale today, then I remembered yep that was it.
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Levygoddess
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Posted: July 11 2008 at 9:42pm |
I think its sad that everyone thinks they have to keep up with everyone else even when they cant pay their bills. I dont own a credit card, and refuse to. They are no better than loan sharks!
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God put us here for a reason
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H2HPrep
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Posted: July 12 2008 at 8:52am |
Twas ever thus. Are there any dinosaurs out there who remember waiting in
line to buy the latest Beatles 45rpm?
The big difference may be that the record was 79 cents. The iphones are
$300.00 plus $70.00 per month.
Some recession, eh?
Courtesy of John, Paul, George and Ringo:
The best things in life are free But you can keep them for the birds and bees Now give me money That's what I want That's what I want, yeah That's what I want
You're lovin' gives me a thrill But you're lovin' don't pay my bills Now give me money That's what I want That's what I want, yeah That's what I want
Money don't get everything it's true What it don't get, I can't use Now give me money That's what I want That's what I want, yeah That's what I want, wah
Money don't get everything it's true What it don't get, I can't use Now give me money That's what I want That's what I want, yeah That's what I want
Well now give me money A lot of money Wow, yeah, I wanna be free Oh I want money That's what I want That's what I want, well Now give me money A lot of money Wow, yeah, you need money now, give me money That's what I want, yeah that's what I want
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Graywolf
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Posted: July 12 2008 at 9:56am |
Damn i do Wow i am old lol But full of wisdom! Like the wife says full of something lol
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Something wicked these way comes!!
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LaRo
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Posted: July 13 2008 at 10:38pm |
Well this should be another interesting week. Usually the bankers try to go broke on friday afternoon, until then, they are business as usual. Most people have a short memory and if a bank goes broke on friday, by monday all is forgotten.
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r we there yet?
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coyote
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Posted: July 14 2008 at 6:44am |
waterboy's comment: Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2008 at 3:53pm
BIG CRASH COMING TO WALL STREET SOON.OIL HITS $150.00 NEXT WEEK......CRASH!!!!!!
Oil rebound to near $145 a barrel
Monday July 14, 9:27 am ET
By Pablo Gorondi, Associated Press Writer
Oil rebounds on supply concerns after falling as US mortgage rescue strengthened dollar
Oil prices crept back up near $145 a barrel Monday on supply concerns after falling more than $2 earlier in the session as the dollar rose on expectations that the U.S. could avert a short-term worsening of the credit crisis.
ADVERTISEMENT
By the afternoon in Europe, light, sweet crude for August delivery was down 23 cents to $144.85 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Earlier Monday, the contract had dipped as low as $142.49.
The contract rose to a trading record of $147.27 a barrel in New York on Friday before closing at $145.08, just down from Thursday's settlement record of $145.29.
In London, August Brent crude was down 24 cents to $144.25 a barrel on the ICE Futures exchange.
The U.S. Federal Reserve said Sunday it would lend if necessary to major U.S. government-backed mortgage giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, which have seen their stock prices plummet amid subprime loan turmoil. The Treasury Department also said it would seek congressional approval to make a possible equity investment in the two companies.
"The Fed action on Fannie and Freddie is a short-term positive because it prevents a credit meltdown," said Victor Shum, an analyst with energy consulting firm Purvin & Gertz in Singapore. "But longer-term, it shows the extent of the problem facing the U.S. economy."
Investors have been buying dollar-denominated crude contracts as a hedge against inflation and a weakening dollar, pushing the price of oil to double in the past year. When the dollar strengthens, such currency-related buying tends to unwind.
On Monday, the dollar was stronger against the Japanese currency trade at 106.51 yen compared to 106.09 yen on Friday, while the euro weakened to $1.5874 from $1.5901 late Friday.
"The stress in financial markets should be a dominant market-making influence this week," said Olivier Jakob at Petromatrix in Switzerland.
Markets also will be keeping a close eye on this week's testimony before Congress by U.S. Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke, looking for signs, among other things, of which direction interest rates could take in the coming months.
Fears that a strike by Brazilian oil workers will cut supplies helped crude prices rebound Monday.
About 2,500 workers in the Campos Basin, which produces more than 80 percent of Brazil's oil output, began a strike at midnight Sunday (0300 GMT) to demand that state-run oil company Petrobras give them an extra day off at the end of each two-week shift on the platforms.
"Supply-side concerns in Brazil, Iran and Nigeria are putting a high floor on prices," Shum said. "We see limited downside risk and expect higher highs in the coming weeks."
Iranian officials vowed on Sunday that the Islamic Republic would fight back against any attacks on it and "cut off the hands" of the invaders. The comments came amid heightened speculation that Israel and the United States will attack Iranian targets to destroy what they say are Tehran's suspicious nuclear programs.
Nigeria's main militant group said last week it planned to resume attacks in the oil-rich Niger region because of a British pledge to help support the government in ending the conflict there.
Iran is OPEC's second-largest oil exporter, while Nigeria is Africa's largest oil producer.
In other Nymex trade, heating oil futures rose 0.51 cents to $4.0817 a gallon (3.8 liters) while gasoline prices fell 1.05 cents to $3.5527 a gallon. Natural gas futures were down 3.3 cents to $11.871 per 1,000 cubic feet.
Associated Press writer Alex Kennedy in Singapore contributed to this story.
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Long time lurker since day one to Member.
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waterboy
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Posted: July 14 2008 at 2:28pm |
Take a look at things to come. dont get suckered. Save your money.... Last night FUTURES were up. This morning they were up??? At close the markets were down. DONT GET CAUGHT UP IN THIS SUCKER RALLY. DOW 10,500 by Friday the 18TH???? BEWARE.....
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coyote
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Posted: July 15 2008 at 6:46am |
Stocks are plunging.. Dow is down 105 points...
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Long time lurker since day one to Member.
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H2HPrep
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Posted: July 15 2008 at 11:17am |
Oil is down $7.00 per barrel since this morning. Why?
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Turboguy
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Posted: July 15 2008 at 2:36pm |
Investors selling oil like hotcakes. They're under the impression that we're going to have a major correction in the US economy in the near future which will dramatically hurt gasoline demand. I'm not going to believe any of it until I see it.
It seems the stock market cycle has shortened itself from the yearly to the daily game. One day they're telling us it's all over, the world's gonna explode, the economy's gonna crash, we're all gonna die.
The very next day they're telling us that it's all over, the economy's gonna fly off! A world of laughing, playing, rivers of chocolate, children with gumdrop smiles.
It's all just crainial rectal inversion if you ask me.
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Posted: July 16 2008 at 3:24pm |
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TurboGuy wrote:
It's all just crainial rectal inversion if you ask me. |
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The act of having your head up your ass.
"Are you really that stupid? You must be suffering from a cranial rectal inversion.
What a dumb-ass."
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This is the way disaster works in the modern day. Some DFH says "perhaps a land war in Asia against a country that has never attacked the US and presents no threat might work out badly." Responsible people reply "You Damn Hippies. You were right about Vietnam and we've never, ever forgiven you. So we're going to cut off our nose just to spite your face."
Or perhaps "Maybe if we have huge tax cuts for the rich and a 150 billion dollar war that will cause large deficits."
Or possibly "Perhaps tax cuts mean less tax revenues, not more?"
Or "Invading Iraq may cause the price of oil to rise because it's very easy for guerillas to disrupt oil supplies."
Or "Repealing Glass-Steagall might be a bad idea". (Oh wait, Dems did this. Well both parties have "serious" people).
Or "Perhaps letting banks buy credit insurance just displaces the risk rather than covering it?"
Or "If you put interest rates to generational lows and leave them there, it might cause a housing bubble."
Or "Perhaps giving people loans they can't afford and not checking their credit is a bad idea and might make the housing bubble worse?"
Or (2002)"Given that we're probably on the wrong side of peak oil, perhaps the major car companies should be retooling for fuel efficient cars back in 2002 or so, and if they don't, perhaps when oil prices go up they'll finish going bankrupt?"
Or "Did your mothers drop all of you on your heads, then decide that wasn't enough and give you a roundhouse kick so hard it created a perfect and permanent cranial-rectal inversion?"
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jacksdad
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Posted: July 16 2008 at 5:46pm |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep" "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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LaRo
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Posted: July 16 2008 at 6:01pm |
I think you missed a couple points
1. North Korea developed an atomic bomb and exploded it. Why wasn't the government concerned at that point and invade them?
2. Iraq didn't do any terrorizing of the US and were NOT developing weapons of mass destruction, so why did the US invade?
3. Iran hasn't developed any weapons of mass destruction and they are about to possibly be bombed back into the stone age and possibly have a nuclear dropped on them.
What is the difference between North Korea and Iran & Iraq?
The only thing I see is Iran and Iraq do (or did not) not want to sell their oil for DOLLARS, this seems to be the common denominator.
Does this tick off the Federal Reserve?
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r we there yet?
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H2HPrep
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Posted: July 16 2008 at 6:12pm |
Nuclear Testing per Country:
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LaRo
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 9:15am |
I only have one comment, the bail out of Fannie May and Fredie Max will only cause more and more inflation.
Protect yourself from inflation anyway you can. It's going to get a lot worse.
Aren't you glad you only had $100,000 in Indymax, you got all your money back, look at the guy that had $200,000 stored there, he only lost $50,000, what a great deal.
Get out a gold chart for the past year. If you had bought one ounce of gold a year ago, that gold coin would have doubled in value, Isn't that better interest then the bank pays? The gold coin would have cost around $500 and you would now be able to sell it for around $1000. Such a deal. If you were looking at your grocery bill doubling over the past year, we'd call that hyper-inflation. Expect that to happen because the federal reserve is still creating money out of thin air.
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r we there yet?
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H2HPrep
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 12:03pm |
My Morgan Stanley friend said he's recommending gold bullion.
When they come breaking down your door looking for a can of beef-a-roni
throw the gold it may knock em' out long enough to get away.
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Littleraven
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 1:29pm |
Being fairly ignorant of what the hell is going on with the government and its perpetual inability to do much of anything right can someone speculate on what it means to someone who has their house loan through a bank like--Oh lets just say Indy Mac for fun? Does that mean the government owns your house at that point or do they just sell it off to another drooling bunch of moron banks? Government and finance was never my forte--obviously.
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There's a Bad Moon on the Rise
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 3:29pm |
Here is the answer...pay off your house that is something no one can take from you unless there is no law left in the U.S.
Your property value will go up and down but in 1989 we could not sell our house for 80K. Now it is worth over 275K yes it was up over 300K last year but gee who cares. The price will go up again when this bad stuff gets over.
When your house is paid off you life is secure, you will always have a roof over your head as long as you pay your property taxes.
Security is worth more that all the cash or gold you put away.
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Posted: July 18 2008 at 6:17pm |
Littleraven wrote:
Being fairly ignorant of what the hell is going on with the government and its perpetual inability to do much of anything right can someone speculate on what it means to someone who has their house loan through a bank like--Oh lets just say Indy Mac for fun? Does that mean the government owns your house at that point or do they just sell it off to another drooling bunch of moron banks? Government and finance was never my forte--obviously. |
The bank may fail, your loan stands strong. You will still owe your debt. Keep paying on time. Send registered mail if your bank fails so you can show you paid on time to the last notified address. Loans are sold and bought all the time without your knowledge. Just be sure to keep your payments current.
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Littleraven
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Posted: July 19 2008 at 11:18am |
Good advice FluMom and Annie, thanks. I hadn't thought of the registered mail idea---just in case. Boy this country has some tough times ahead.
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There's a Bad Moon on the Rise
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Turboguy
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Posted: July 19 2008 at 5:00pm |
I'll answer these for you:
LaRo wrote:
1. North Korea developed an atomic bomb and exploded it. Why wasn't the government concerned at that point and invade them?
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Because once they've got the bomb it's too late. Start attacking them and who knows where they'll send that bad boy. I'd hate to see a big 'shroom cloud over Tokyo...
2. Iraq didn't do any terrorizing of the US and were NOT developing weapons of mass destruction, so why did the US invade?
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What was that reactor the Israelis blew up for? What exactly was it that was used on the Kurds?
3. Iran hasn't developed any weapons of mass destruction and they are about to possibly be bombed back into the stone age and possibly have a nuclear dropped on them.
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Iran's not building a reactor for electricity. Anyone that thinks that Iran would be benevolant with not only nuclear technology, but fissile material, is simply naive. This being the same administration (In Amadinejad) that regularly talks about the destruction of Israel, the US, and anyone and everyone in the world in an apocalyptic war. It'd be like giving a suicidal sociopath an AK47 and leting hiim loose in a mall full of unarmed sheeple. He already wants to die, if he can take as many others with him as possible the better. A nuke on Tehran would be a very good thing.
The only thing I see is Iran and Iraq do (or did not) not want to sell their oil for DOLLARS, this seems to be the common denominator.
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I completely agree. but the possibility of a regional nuclear arms race is a BAD thing, especially for the price of oil.
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Chloess
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Posted: July 20 2008 at 12:00am |
Can we spell war time ecomony?
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Posted: July 20 2008 at 1:36pm |
Chloess wrote:
Can we spell war time ecomony? | LOL, I guess not, the correct spelling is Economy.
A NATION CHALLENGED:
THE FINANCIAL RISKS; A Different Kind of Wartime Economy
By RICHARD W. STEVENSON
Published: October 9, 2001
Given the nature of this new conflict with terrorism, the economy is not likely to be revived by the developments that fueled previous wartime booms, like surging orders for tanks and airplanes or demand for workers to replace those who go off to fight.
This time, the course of the economy will be determined in large part by the relative power of two broader but opposing forces.
On the negative side is the uncertainty, and in some cases fear, that has gripped businesses, consumers and investors since Sept. 11, further weakening an economy that had been teetering on the brink of recession, if not already in one.
On the other side of the equation is government economic policy, which had been performing mild CPR on the decade-long business expansion through much of the year. But now fiscal and monetary stimulus are being engaged full force in an effort to make sure that the downturn after the terrorist attacks is as short and shallow as possible.
''The question is whether this situation will push us into recession or pull us out of it,'' said Martin N. Baily, who was chairman of the White House's Council of Economic Advisers under President Bill Clinton.
''The part pushing us into recession is that everyone is more concerned about risk,'' he said. ''The part pulling us out is increasing government spending, cutting taxes, being less concerned about the budget deficit and having the Fed move more aggressively to stimulate the economy than it probably would have without this attack.''
The Federal Reserve has lately been pulling out all the stops to cut interest rates. Congress and the Bush administration have already approved substantial increases in government spending and seem headed toward approval of a second round of tax cuts and additional stimulus measures this year.
By comparison with past efforts, however, the one-two punch of monetary and fiscal policy falls short of the equivalent of the war mobilization of the World War II era, and may not even pump up the economy in the way the Vietnam War did in the 1960's.
''My guess is that this is not going to be all that similar to previous wartime economies,'' said N. Gregory Mankiw, an economics professor at Harvard University. ''Unless the fiscal stimulus ends up being a lot bigger than I expect, the differences will be greater than the similarities to the past.''
Instead, the effectiveness of lower interest rates, higher government spending and tax cuts in turning the economy around will depend to some extent on how the battle against terrorism goes, and on whether the United States and its allies suffer retaliatory attacks.
Given that the modern-day economy of the United States is far more substantial than in the past, the combination should pack enough of a wallop, economists say, to keep the fallout from the terrorist attacks and the military response from overwhelming the nation's economic strengths. Moreover, once the worst of the war is over, it should set the stage for a healthy recovery, probably sometime next year.
In the past, wars have had varying effects on the economy.
On Dec. 7, 1941, the United States was still struggling to emerge from the Depression. The war effort finished the job, creating what amounted to a full-employment economy.
On Aug. 7, 1964, when Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, giving its backing to increased American involvement in Vietnam, the economy was already recovered from a 10-month recession that ended in early 1961. Military spending helped keep the expansion going until 1969, even fueling inflation by over-stimulating growth.
On Aug. 2, 1990, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, the economy fell into what proved to be an eight-month recession. A spike in oil prices hurt the economy, and the modest and temporary increase in military spending was not enough to give the economy much of a lift.
On Sept. 11, it was already clear that the United States was enduring a sharp slowdown and that the expansion -- the longest on record -- might already have come to an end.
Despite a series of interest rate decreases by the Fed and a tax cut signed into law by President Bush, unemployment was creeping up, business investment in new factories and equipment had stalled, and consumers were growing increasingly jittery.
If the economy was not in recession before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, it almost certainly went into one afterward. Big companies have announced about 200,000 layoffs and have put expansion plans on hold.
The economy's strength in recent years has derived in part from a sense of excitement about the availability of jobs and the opportunities generated by technological advances, coupled with a drive by companies to drive down costs.
Both those factors are now at risk of being overwhelmed by fallout from the campaign against terror.
Companies in many industries now face the prospect of having to invest heavily in increased security, costs that do nothing for their bottom lines. Mr. Baily said El Al, the Israeli airline, spent about 4 percent of its own revenue on security, plus an amount equal to about 3 percent of its revenue from the Israeli government.
Airlines based in the United States, by contrast, have typically spent only about 2 percent of their revenues on security.
It is harder to put any figures on the potential for a loss of enthusiasm among investors, businesses and consumers.
''We simply do not know how the military action will play out, or what response there might be from the terrorists,'' said Ian Shepherdson, an economist at High Frequency Economics, a consulting firm. ''Even if the U.S. and other governments manage to foil attempted attacks, we do not know how American consumers will respond to what might amount to a state of perpetual national insecurity.''
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LaRo
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Posted: July 22 2008 at 10:15am |
You still have time to protect yourselves. Ike and Kennedy warned you about the present times. http://www.kitco.com/ind/schoon/jul222008.html
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r we there yet?
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waterboy
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Posted: July 23 2008 at 10:07pm |
GET OUT!
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Posted: July 25 2008 at 9:40am |
Thanks Gnfin! Hey, where is the Friday update?
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Albert
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Posted: July 28 2008 at 10:15pm |
Market was down -220 today, and I believe it was down 280 on Thursday. Nearly 600 points down in the last 3 days.
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Posted: July 29 2008 at 7:43pm |
HI ALBERT< I see you are posting this right after the earthquake> looks like all you did was rock and roll _ it is the shakers that will damage everything> glad all is well> thanks for the market update>
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Posted: July 29 2008 at 11:22pm |
Market up 266...guys this market will go up and down. But it will continue to keep going up little by little.
Just looked up the unemployment figures for Colorado
Current - 5.1 Highest Nov 1982 - 9.1 Lowest Jan 2001 - 2.5
So we are not in too bad a shape. Yes we have foreclosures but I keep saying who is at fault people who could not pay for houses they purchased or the banks that loaned them the money. We have 2-3 more years to get though and then the economy will turn around.
Sad some will get hurt and not recover very well, life will be different for these people.
The only stickey wicket is if the BF goes H2H and is bad or something else happens that is bad...life as usual.
Cheer up California is still standing!
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monte
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Posted: July 30 2008 at 3:14am |
Did any of you read the story about the guy on house extreme makeover? Had a 450k home built for him and family plus 10k a year for the next 25 years for taxes and maintenance all for free then he took a loan out against it to start a business. Well guess what, the business went south and he and family have no home. Aint that a female dog!
He is the poster child for what is wrong with America! But what can one expect from a society that expects handouts.
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Graywolf
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Posted: July 30 2008 at 4:58am |
Well the Goverment spends money they dont have why shouldnt the people not do the same!The Goverment does it must be ok!I belive if the goverment only spent what they took in the people would do the same!
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Something wicked these way comes!!
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LaRo
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Posted: July 30 2008 at 6:51am |
Graywolf, it isn't that simple. Your politicians recieve money to run a campaign, look how much is being spent today by the presidential candidates. Where does it all com from? How do they pay it back? Do they get large amounts of money because of how they look, or because of their religion? Absolutely not, it's because they are selling them selves to the highest bidder. Who has the most money is the highest bidder and that is the federal reserve, they have a botom less checkbook. They are a private company and completely unregulated AND they intend to stay that way. Remember if you control a country's money, you control that country.
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r we there yet?
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