Health Care Workers Discussion Area

    This room is for health care workers on the chat board to discuss and answer questions from others.

As a working C.D. investigator, I too would be happy to provide imput to this thread...thanks John

    Wow, didn't expect such a good response. What is a C.D. Investigator? As you all know, I am a CNA.

Last week I approached one of my bosses about a pandemic plan, and she didn't even know what a pandemic plan is. If I have time today I'm going to file a suggestion.

Same experience here, John. I approached my supervisor about a pandemic contingency plan, partly because some of my patients had raised the issue, only to be met with a blank stare, so I e-mailed the company directly. They contacted her after about a month and she relayed the message, which was that in the event of a flu pandemic they would defer to the CDC and the local health authority. I tried to explain by that time it would be too late to make any meaningful preparations such as organizing generators/fuel and stocking up on supplies, but I got the blank stare again. When I mentioned it to an administrative staff member, her reply was, "when has bird flu ever caused us any problems before?". Very scary.

"I know that the CDC and most governments in the world are more worried about the panic from a pandemic killer flu than they are of a killer flu".

   I totally agree. I think most, if not all of the people on this forum know that when you start to look deeper into the subject of avian flu and the history of it's interaction with mankind, you begin to realise just how bad a major pandemic could be. I'm sure we've all been through the panic stage already - I know I have. Translating the situation they faced in 1918 to today, with our increased reliance on a very delicate infrastructure, vastly increased mobility by virtue of air travel, and significantly larger population, the scenarios are downright terrifying. Compound that with widespread shortages of just about everything we've come to take for granted maybe within weeks, and you have the potential for social disruption on a scale unknown to most of us that haven't lived through wartime. I've seen worse case scenarios mentioning BF death rates of 1 in 20. That gives us a 1 in 19 chance of surviving - a hell of a lot better than even. But I wonder how many more would die not from the flu, but from the disruption caused by our reaction to the flu? I think the authorities are having to walk a fine line between creating all out panic or complete apathy. Exactly how to convey to people how bad it might be without causing panic buying and unwarranted social distancing is extremely tricky. Whether their approach is right remains to be seen, I guess. I don't envy them though.
   I was going to ask one of our doctors at work about his feelings on the subject. It'll be interesting to find out how well he's been briefed. When myself and a coworker first started to get up to speed on BF, she asked a neighbor (who is a fire fighter in the area) if he knew about it. This was nearly six months ago, and he said that he and his colleagues already knew all about it, and had plenty of stocks laid in. They also had plans to move their families to a rural firehouse when they got word. I have a friend who is a city paramedic now. I'll get in touch and find out what I can from him about how well they've been prepped.
   
    
    
    

jacksdad,so you are seeing basically the same thing in your area that I have seen in mine. Our fire department members were even given hand outs and they were told to keep them secret. The EMS people were told that when and if a Bird Flu case was confirmed in a given home,they were to ignore any calls for help from that home and not even stop any more. The fire department personnel were told the same thing and what makes this so strange to me is that I live in a small town and the fire department personnel are all unpaid volunteers. Johnray1

Johnray1 wrote: jacksdad,so you are seeing basically the same thing in your area that I have seen in mine. Our fire department members were even given hand outs and they were told to keep them secret. The EMS people were told that when and if a Bird Flu case was confirmed in a given home,they were to ignore any calls for help from that home and not even stop any more. The fire department personnel were told the same thing and what makes this so strange to me is that I live in a small town and the fire department personnel are all unpaid volunteers. Johnray1

D!    

reality check,the best that we can all hope for is that this flu never gets here,or if it does get here,that it has mutated into a form that is no worse than the regular flu that we see every year.Another thing ,every doctor who has had mass trauma training are trained to save the people that you think might live,you are taught to not waste time on people who(in your opinion) are going to die any way.So this does fit with mass casuality training. Johnray1
    

reality check,I hope that you are right and that I am wrong.I even hope that nothing that even looks like "Bird Flu" ever" makes it to our country. But you do need to go look up in any medical book on mass trauma or mass illnesses and see what it says about the one patients that you might be able to save and the one's that you think can not be saved. Just to add a little to this,nurses will be making these discisions at triage.Johnray1   

    Hi Albert, just had to re register, the board says my account isn't registered and wouldn't let me post

I'm personally guessing that the majority of HCW's will attend their jobs during a panflu.  As a whole, just like everybody else, they will most likely be taken by surprise and they probably won't understand what they're dealing with.   

Now, if I was working in a med center myself, I would want to make sure that the facility had enough tamiflu on hand to create an immediate tamiflu blanket to cover all employees.   Quite honestly, for a tamiflu blanket to be real effective, it should also include the families of the HCW's.  Unfortunately we're now talking about a lot of tamiflu with most likely little planning. 

 

 

 

    I can't honestly say that I'd go to work during a pandemic. If systems break down, will we even get paid?

my Dr. has already discussed his plan for patients to be separated from bf and regulars..some will be defilned from in the patio area vs. the office area. He hands out info on bf regularly, talks about it with each patient who wants to listen. This is the type you will show up to help....

reality check,did you go look up how mass trauma or mass illness of any kind is treated? Or can you read? By the way,I have been in medicine appr.30 years,why have I never heard of a Communicable Disease Investigator? What branch of the CDC do you work for? Or what branch of what health department do you work for? You have been very insulting to me over the last day or so on this board,and I would like to know what your Education Level is? I have turned downed jobs with the CDC. Have you? I know that they have people on an International Level,Country Level,and State Level who do track down diseases,but all of these people that I know hold at Ph.D's in on field or another. Most are either Infectious Disease Specialist or Epidemiologists. Which one are you and what office do you work out of? Your bosses should know just how uninformed you are and how arrogant you are and I am probably the man to tell them.Johnray1     

jacksdad,like I have said,many times,I hope this does not happen. But as long as we can keep the water running and the power on,there may be hope,but if this thing does happen,I expect that the utilities will go one at a time,as more people get sick ,there will be a point where nothing is working and no one knows what is going on and just before that point is the time to get youself and your family to a safe place,even if it is just your house with a locked door. My children are all grown and have families of their own and they will not listen to me any way.so I can pretty easily take care of me and my wife. Johnray1

Same here jacksdad! I know exactly what your saying! Coyote

PS: "it's not if but when". someday we will not be looked at like were "nut jobs". We can then tell them,I told you so.

   I was thinking along the same lines yesterday, John. I was getting supplies for our camp toilet and debating where I should dump it. I've never gotten along with my neighbors and they're only on the other side of the fence. Maybe on a dark night...
   Anyway, it occurred to me that there's going to be a lot of "stuff" around that's not going anywhere except into the ground water. We could be reeling from avian flu when something like typhoid hits. With an already overwhelmed healthcare system we'd be in serious trouble. All the more reason to make sure your water preps (either stored or filtered) are up to snuff.

reality check,where is your response to TERMS1 to this post. He is correct. Johnray1

Good idea for a thread. I look forward to interacting and talking to other health professionals.

MC

Thanks for contributing, Terms. EMS/Fire are going to be on the front line if a major pandemic materializes, and a lot of very hard decisions are going to be made. Anyone that thinks otherwise is in for a rude awakening.
   

johngarderner1,I have no idea who has a stock of Relenza or Tamiflu. I know that I do not. I do not even have one dose of either one. But I have heard through the grapevine,that there are many stores of both inside the beltway of Washinton,D.C. I have no way of confirming this or dening this. But I think that it is kind of strange that after all of the perparing that many of us have done and much of the hiding that the Feds have done(of relenza and Tamiflu) that the common cold has mutated into one of the very diseases that we have all been afraid of.Johnray1

To all on this board, there is one disease that we have all failed to watch. That is MRSA,it seems to be very common in this area now. MRSA is not a knew a new disease but it has been primarily restricted to out breaks in nurseing homes,but it seems to have made the jump to the general public. I live in a very small and a really rural area and we have had 3 cases that I know of in the last couple of weeks here,amoung other wise healthy people with minor injuries. I do not understand the jump it has made and I do not understand the mood of transmission that it is useing.It is very bebilating at least(multipe amputations) and it is deadly in many cases and it has me confused. Johnray1

johngardner1,all that I know about the common cold mutateing is that the CDC has known about this for 1 1/2 years. There is no telling how many people in nurseing homes and people who were very sick at home and makeing many visits to the E.R. have died from this.I know that I have seen many people in the last few months who I thought had the common cold ,but they could not get wll. It lasted months past what the common cold should last. These people had a slightly elevated white counts and also slightly elevated liver enzymes ,but there was stil nothing that you could say for sure what there diagnosis was. All that I know is they standed sick for months with the common cold symptoms and these laboratory abnormalities. None of my patients died,but that was probably more luck than skill,because this has been know about for 1 1/2 years,but we have only know about for 1 1/2 days. There is no way to know how many people in nurseing homes died of it and their death was attributed to something else and there is no way of knowing how many who were cared for at home,but still very sick,who died of this and we did not know that a mutation had taken place. Even if we had known that a mutation had taken place,I do not know that we could have done anything about it,but it would have been good to know,before a 1 1/2 years had gone by. Johnray1