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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Water Storage on Cement

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ps36 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ps36 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Water Storage on Cement
    Posted: February 19 2006 at 9:57am

A few days ago, somebody indicated that we should not store water bottles on cement (sorry I cannot locate the original posting). What damage can cement do water? Does it shorten its expiry period?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TNbebo408 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 10:12am
I am not sure about concrete hurting the water. But it will affect the storage containers.

And never out lead acid batteries on concrete, it will kill them, draws the fire out of them.

Just slip a board under the jugs or batteries, it will prevent this problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AuntBones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2006 at 11:24am
It has to to with a chemical reaction between concrete and plastic.  Chemicals from cement weaken plastic over time,  sunlight will do the same over time. Ps36 I think it maybe be the limestone in concrete.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:39am
I've read elsewhere, someplace online, to never store water containers of any type on concrete floors because, over time, the concrete floor imports a HORRID taste to the water.

When I read about this, the author also advised to make certain, if you have food & water stored in the basement, to make absolutely certain that none of the containers ever touch the concrete WALLS of the basement, either.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:40am
http://www.emprep.com/water_storage.html
 
 

Emergency Water Storage and Treatment
Earthquake, storm or other natural or man made disaster strikes, your access to food,
water and electricity may end for days, or even weeks.
USE COMMON SENSE!
Plan to be independent from resources other than your own.
WATER POSSIBLY YOUR NUMBER ONE CONCERN.
(remember no water no flush)
The following information about water storage and purification is the latest and most accurate
information available.
Guidelines from the Food and Drug Administration, U. S. Department of Agriculture
Extension Service as well as the Environmental Protection Agency Safe Water Hotline.
We have added our own personal opinions derived from practical applications and
professionals in Emergency Management.

How Much Water is enough ?

Store at least one gallon of water per person, per day. That is the minimum storage just for drinking.
We have also listened to medical doctors claims of approximately 2 quarts.
How much would depend on weather, exertion, size and physical condition. Safe to say
one gallon per day per person base line drinking and hygiene.
Remember, be practical consider space required, handling, rotation.
WATER IS A PRIORITY! Diversify your containers - portable and stationary
Properly stored water in your car is a must have. If you find you are stranded or must abandon
your vehicle and travel by foot you will need water. We favor water packets that can be stored
for extended periods. Packets will withstand temperature extremes of summer & winter.
( Packets normally contain filtered "purified" water and can be of use in a medical emergency)

How to Store Water

1.Store water in clean plastic containers, such as 2-liter soda bottles, with tight fitting screw-cap
lids. Use colored bottles to inhibit light. Soda bottles meaning carbonated beverage plastic
is of a finer grade of plastic and the caps have "soft seal" for positive closing.
The container must be of "food-grade" plastic. Do not use milk containers since they do
not have a lid that seals well. You may also purchase plastic containers at a camping supply
store. Be sure the containers are designated as water storage containers. Never use a
container that has held toxic substances.
2.Store in a cool, dark location such as closet.
3.Empty and refill the water at least every six months.
We prefer: Dark containers to inhibit penetration by U.V.
Non vented containers preventing air intake and unauthorized materials being added.
Always keep containers insulated from concrete to prevent leaching of chemicals.

If using commercially prepared "spring", distilled, or " drinking" water store as follows:

1.Keep the water in its original sealed container. Once the container is opened, use the water
immediately.
2.Rotate the water at least every six months.
Keep away from sunlight and fluorescent lighting.
PLEASE NOTE: Tests have shown that many bottled waters are no better than your normal
tap water. Many times containers are clear plastic for consumer appeal. You may be better
served by storing your own water in containers of your choice.

Other sources of emergency drinking water:*

Water in your hot-water heater

Water in your plumbing

Melted ice cubes

Water from your toilet tank (not the bowl)

Ways to Purify Water

In addition to having a bad odor and taste, contaminated water can contain micro-organisms that
cause diseases such as dysentery, typhoid and hepatitis. You should purify all water of uncertain
purity before using it for drinking, food preparation or hygiene.
Avoid at all cost unpure water, illness/diarrhea at a time of short water supplies can spell death.

There are many ways to purify water. None is perfect in a stress situation with limited resources. Often the best solution is a combination of methods.

Two easy purification methods are outlined below. These measures will kill most microbes but will not remove other contaminants such as heavy metals, salts and most other chemicals. Before
purifying, let any suspended particles settle to the bottom, or strain them through layers of paper
towel or clean cloth.

Boiling. Boiling is the safest method of purifying water. Bring water to a rolling boil for 3-5 minutes, keeping in mind that some water will evaporate. Let the water cool before drinking.

Boiled water will taste better if you put oxygen back into it by pouring the water back and forth
between two clean containers. This will also improve the taste of stored water.

Disinfection. You can use household liquid bleach to kill microorganisms. Use only regular
household liquid bleach that contains 5.25 percent sodium hypochlorite. Do not use scented
bleaches, color safe bleaches or bleaches with added cleaners.

Add 16 drops of bleach per gallon of water, stir and let stand for 30 minutes. If the water does not have a slight bleach odor, repeat the dosage and let stand another 15 minutes.
You may use bleach for storing water if you feel it necessary. Normally this is not needed
if you are using an approved source and are rotating your supplies as you should. The treatment
range is between 12 - 18 drops per gallon. For measuring drops you can simply dip a twist
of paper towel in bleach and count the drops.

NOTES:
The only agent used to purify water should be household liquid bleach. Other chemicals, such as
iodine or water treatment products sold in camping or surplus stores that do not contain 5.25
percent sodium hypochlorite as the only active ingredient, are not recommended and should not be used.
Beware of expiration dates, did you know; bleach average 16 month shelf life.
Potable water tablets, 2 years in original sealed container.
Beware of the term, EPA approved. Don't be misled into believing this means FDA approved.
EPA approvals will dictate how items will react to the environment and may also be directed
towards shipping methods. (Bleach = Corrosive, do not ship by air )
Beware of wording designed to trick or mislead the consumer.

Distillation. While the two methods described above will kill most microbes in water, distillation will remove microbes that resist these methods, and heavy metals, salts and most other chemicals.Distillation involves boiling water and then collecting the vapor
that condenses back to water. The condensed vapor will not include salt and
other impurities. To distill, fill a pot halfway with water. Tie a cup to the handle
on the pot's lid so that the cup will hand right-side-up when the lid is
upside-down (make sure the cup is not dangling in the water) and boil the water
for 20 minutes. The water that drips from the lid into the cup is distilled.
The safest most absolute way if you plan ahead and have the fuel.



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:42am
I have all of my stored on the concrete floor and I have never had any problems with my water..I dumped mine they had been in there for 2 years..and I use some to make sure i was storing properly and all was ok...but I will put drywall under them just in case..mine are in a closet under the stairs..i just hate the thoughts of moving all 300 plus of them...they have drywall between them so it is the bottom layer..oh rats...well I came across the folling artical as i was looking through this...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slcmom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:45am
Sticking a couple of 2x4s underneath the containers just to keep them off the concrete works well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 10:55am
 did you know; bleach average 16 month shelf life
 
 
This something I did not realize
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 11:13am
SIXTEEN months?

Yikes, I thought I'd read that the bleach you buy at the grocery store has an expiration of about six months, that's '6' and not, "16."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 12:21pm

Does anyone know which is correct,  6 or 16  ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daydreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 12:52pm
Here's what I found out from this website: http://www.clorox.com/solutions_reg_bleach_faq.php
 

Frequently Asked Questions

How has Clorox® Bleach improved its whitening formula?

We have a new patented formula across the entire line of Clorox® Bleach products. The new formula incorporates an ingredient, sodium polyacrylate, that binds to certian minerals that are in the water supply preventing them from depositing on your clothes. You get all the power and performance of Clroox Liquid Bleach you are used to, but now clothes will retain their whiteness that might have benn lost over time due to deposition of these minerals.

Do Clorox® Bleach Citrus Blend, Mountain Fresh and Fresh Meadow® and Clorox Splash-less Liquid Gel bleaches disinfect?

Our fragranced and Splash-less® Clorox® Bleaches are not registered disinfectants. If you need a registered disinfectant, you can purchase EPA registered Clorox® Regular-Bleach at almost any store that sell laundry products. Make sure that "Disinfects" or "Kills germs" appears on the label.

Can Clorox® Regular-Bleach be used to disinfect water?

Emergency Disinfection: When boiling water is not practical, water can be made potable by using Clorox® Regular-Bleach. Before the addition of the disinfectant, remove all suspended material by filtration or by allowing it to settle to the bottom. Decant the clarified contaminated water to a clean container and add 8 drops of Clorox® Regular-Bleach to one gallon of water (2 drops to 1 quart). Allow the treated water to stand for 30 minutes. Properly treated water should have a slight chlorine odor. If not, repeat dosage and allow water to stand an additional 15 minutes. The treated water can then be made palatable by pouring it between clean containers for several times. For cloudy water, use 16 drops of Clorox® Regular-Bleach per gallon of water (4 drops to 1 quart). If no chlorine odor is apparent after 30 minutes, repeat dosage and wait an additional 15 minutes. Do not use scented or Splash-less Clorox® Bleaches for this purpose.

What organisms does Clorox® Regular-Bleach kill?

For hard non-porous surface disinfection:
¾ cup diluted in one gallon of water, 5 minute contact time, to kill the following bacteria, fungi, yeast and viruses:

Bacteria
Staphylococcus aureus (Staph)
Salmonella choleraesuis
Pseudomonas aeruginosa
Streptococcus pyogenes (Strep)
Escherichia coli 0157:H7 (E. coli)
Shigella dysenteriae

Fungi
Trichophyton mentagrophytes (Athlete's Foot)
Candida albicans (yeast)

Viruses
Rhinovirus (Cold virus)
Influenza A2 (Flu virus)
Hepatitis A
Rotavirus
Respiratory Syncytial virus
HIV-1 (Human Immunodeficiency Virus)*
Herpes simplex virus 2
Rubella virus
Adenovirus Type 2
Cytomegalovirus

* For health care settings only.

For non-porous food contact surface sanitizing (refrigerators, freezers, plastic cutting boards, stainless cutlery, dishes, glassware, countertops, pots and pans, stainless utensils):

Use 1 tablespoon of Clorox® Regular-Bleach per gallon of water. Wash, wipe or rinse items with detergent and water then apply sanitizing solution. Let stand 2 minutes. Air dry. Kills the following:
Staphylococcus aureus (Staph)
Escherichia coli 0157:H7 (E. coli)

For hard non-porous surface disinfection:

¾ cup dilution in one gallon of water/10 minute contact time, to kill the following:
Feline parovirus
Canine parovirus

And 1 ¾ cup solution in one gallon of water/5 minute contact time, to kill the following:
Mycobacterium bovis (Tuberculosis).

What is the shelf life of Clorox® Regular-Bleach?

Clorox® Regular-Bleach should be replaced every three months to six months for optimum performance

Is Clorox® Bleach safe for septic systems?

Clorox® Regular-Bleach is not harmful to septic systems. By the time it reaches the septic system, it won't have the power to kill bacteria

Can I use Clorox® Bleach to gargle, brush my teeth or clean cuts and scrapes?

No. Clorox® Bleach is not for personal usage.

Is Clorox® Bleach flammable?

No, Clorox® Bleach is 90% water and is not flammable.

Always read and follow precautions and usage directions before using cleaning products. Always store cleaning products out of reach of children.


Don't put off tomorrow what you can PREP today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 12:55pm
I can guarentee you..when you do about 40-50; 2 litre pop bottles up you can smell the bleach....lol.....
and in there own site they say 8 drops and the other site says 16 drops..I use a measuring cup and dribble dribble....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 12:57pm

Originally posted by Im Appalled Im Appalled wrote:

<FONT style=": #222222" color=#ffffff>Does anyone know which is correct,  6 or 16  ?


    


CLOROX STATES:

....We recommend storing our bleach at room temperatures. It can be stored for about 6 months at temperatures between 50 and 70 degrees Fahrenheit. After this time, bleach will be begin to degrade at a rate of 20% each year until totally degraded to salt and water. Storing at temperatures much higher than 70 degrees Fahrenheit could cause the bleach to lose its effectiveness and degrade more rapidly. However, if you require 6% sodium hypochlorite, you should change your supply every 3 months....


http://www.med.cornell.edu/ehs/faq/biological_safety.htm




FOOD EXPIRATION DATES STATES:

CloroxXxYDDD 

12 (MONTHS) 

Keep at 70 degrees;
20% degratation each year after 1st year




http://www.a1usa.net/gary/expire.html


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 1:03pm

Originally posted by muskrat muskrat wrote:

I can guarentee you..when you do about 40-50; 2 litre pop bottles up you can smell the bleach....lol.....
and in there own site they say 8 drops and the other site says 16 drops..I use a measuring cup and dribble dribble....

    


I have read that IF you carefully rotate the pop bottles of water, then you only have to rinse the bottle out with bleach water, and then you simply fill with tap water. It's sposed to be fine for at least three months, but I think I change mine more frequently -- I use a couple bottles worth when I do laundry, then refill the bottles, and put at the back of the line.

I've stored this water simply for sanitation, not for drinking water, which is good, as I'd not known to never store any water or food on the cement floor. The dirty clothes don't mind, I just toss a couple bottles' worth of storage water into the washing machine while it's filling up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bruss01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 1:14pm
If you store calcium hypochlorite (dry swimming pool shock) instead of bleach (sodium hypochlorite, dissolved in water) it does not degrade... or at least it degrades so slowly that it is good for upwards of 10 years.  We found this readily available from our local swimming pool supply store in 1 lb bags for about $5-6 each.  It should be plain calcium hypochlorite without any stabilizers or algaecides or anything.
 
The formula is to put 1 heaping teaspoon into 2 gallons of water to make disinfecting solution, then add 2.5 tablespoons of the disinfecting solution per gallon to drinking water to sanitize it, let stand 30 minutes, then aerate to taste.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 9:17am
Originally posted by bruss01 bruss01 wrote:

If you store calcium hypochlorite (dry swimming pool shock) instead of bleach (sodium hypochlorite, dissolved in water) it does not degrade... or at least it degrades so slowly that it is good for upwards of 10 years.  We found this readily available from our local swimming pool supply store in 1 lb bags for about $5-6 each.  It should be plain calcium hypochlorite without any stabilizers or algaecides or anything.
 
The formula is to put 1 heaping teaspoon into 2 gallons of water to make disinfecting solution, then add 2.5 tablespoons of the disinfecting solution per gallon to drinking water to sanitize it, let stand 30 minutes, then aerate to taste.
Bruss01, how much shock would I need for about 3,800 gallons? TIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 11:18am
I've had a problem with buying bottled water in jugs. Maybe it was just me but I stored them in a closet on the carpet and some more in the garage on a wooden shelf. Several in both places leaked over time. Maybe I just left them there too long. I don't know HOW they leaked. A big mystery. Anyway now I buy the cases of individual bottles as my husband takes them to work anyway and if there is no emergency we still use them. Also I save bottles from fruit juice which are stronger.
 
Kari
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 11:29am
Those bottles were probably made with plastic which is specially formulated to be biodegradable, and it is SUPPOSED to start degrading within a couple years, so it's not a surprise that such bottles spring leaks.

You have ROTATE your water supply constantly.

I also keep tap water in old plastic pop bottles which have been rinsed out with bleach water.

I also rotate those - I use a couple each time I load the washing machine, then re-fill them and send them to the back of the line.

That way, I don't have to keep dating and re-dating the water bottles, and also, I absolutely never HAVE to actually dispose of any of the water due to it going "bad."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karianne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 7:17pm
Ahhh, I never thought about it being biodegradable. I know it was in there a long time because half of one bottle was empty and the floor wasn't even damp. So all that had leaked out and dried up before I even knew it. I guess I was a newbie at it huh? haha
 
Live and learn.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elizabeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 3:19pm
I've been buying cases of bottled water for drinking, but I need to store water for washing us and the laundry too.  We don't buy soda pop, so I don't have those bottles to use.  I had started to save plastic milk jugs, but now read in here that is not advisable.  But if it's just water to wash with, and I put some bleach in it, it should be ok for that, right?  And what about bleach jugs?  Since you are supposed to put bleach in it anyway, could you use bleach jugs?  We don't use that much bleach, but since I just found out I have to rotate my bleach now, I'll have to empty out my bleach jugs.  I did buy some for BF to disinfect with and treat creek water if I have to.   It seems to me those would be ok to store water to wash with...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 3:39pm
I've read in many places that people have stored their washing water in empty laundry detergent bottles, plastic dish soap bottles, etc. Some of them even leave some soap inside.

I don't know about the bleach bottles, maybe you should email Clorox and ask them.
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