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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Hep B Questions ???
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 14 2009 at 3:41pm
My daughter's ped. Dr.  called to tell us the results of blood work my daughter needs for starting school in California. She had a test for immunity for Hep B . She has had all 3 shots for Hep B. Her test shows that she does not have immunity. She is calling a specialist to see what to do and will get back to us next week. This is making me question all of our vaccinations. If we had a blood test to test all the immunities to all of the many vaccinations like polio,chcken pox, Hep A ect. what would the results show? We assume that once we have the recommended shots that we are safe. I guess not! I understand that there is always a percentage that it doesn't work on. You just don't think that you will be the one or your child. This is the only one that the school makes you check immunity on. Is it because this is  the one that there is a problem with? If anyone can help explain this to me I would really appreciate it. I would like to warn other parents that just because your child had the shot doesn't mean that it worked. How do we know that the new swine flu shot will work?
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Mary008 View Drop Down
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Points: 5769 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mary008 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 11:06am

MamaBear... look at this definition...

the disease has caused epidemics in parts of Asia and Africa, and it is endemic in China. [2]
 
About a third of the world's population, more than 2 billion people, have been infected with the hepatitis B virus.[3]
 
 
(as you know that area comprises about 1/3 of the world's Pop.)
 
 
 
Transmission of hepatitis B virus results from exposure to infectious blood or body fluids containing blood.
 
 
 
MomaBear... it is similar to fearing your child will get aids at school.  Bloodborn.
 
hmmm this vaccine is highly controversial.  I have posted on it. 
 
......................
 
It spread in poor countries like Asia, Africa and China.... due to Needle Reuse.
 
Needle Reuse during widespread Vaccine programs.
 
 
Mothers can pass it to babies.  If a person was  an IV drug user... or had 'relations'
 
with a man with Hep-B, it is a danger to babies.   It is like giving all babies and children an
 
AIDS Vaccine...
 
 
This liver cancer disease can also be spread by multi use vaccine vials.... were personnel in
 
clinics have stuck a needle syringe (having placed a new needle on the syringe thinking it
 
was ok ...NOT...) back into a multi use vial (it saved money?)
 
 
Stupid people who are not well trained must be all over the place...
 
 
After 3 vaccines...  I think you might want to ask some questions.
 
 
Make sure EVERY time a child is vaccinated, it is by a SINGLE USE Vial....that you SEE being
 
used.  or as i mentioned in some posts...there are prefilled single use needle vacs
 
available...but you need to ask...like go out of your way a bit.
 
 
..............
 
let us know what you hear.  thanks.
 
please note... f anyone wants a link...
I got specific info on this from Hepatitis B
on wikipedia.
 
sometime my posts shows up with HUGE letters this is usually a result of hitting edit post... and the the writing reappears in Huge letters...if you see this .. sorry...I
didn't do it intentionally.
 
 
 
 
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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Thank you for responding. We are also trying to have the blood work redone in case the problem is with the lab and not the vaccine. Still waiting to hear from the PED. The school is very strict about showing immunity. Even if we start all over again she wouldn't show immunity until all 3 shots are completed right?? At least 3 months and  she must be on campus Aug. 19th. I hope we can sign a waiver or religous form of some sort until we have this all sorted out.Thank you again Mary008-MamaBear4
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mrmouse View Drop Down
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MamaBear4, when you presented the school with her immunization records why were they not satisfied with that? I've never heard of a school asking a parent to prove the child seroconverted!
Even if a person seroconverts, that does not mean their completely immune from contracting the infectious agent. Does the school offer a way to opt out of the Hep. B vaccination, and if not see if your pediatrician will step in because there's no guarantee she'll seroconvert with the next round of Hep. B shots.   
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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They not only want proof of the shots but also a blood test to prove it. It is a school in the Bay Area . I will check if we can opt out since she has already had 3 shots. But if they are requiring the blood test I think not. Does this mean we should be worried about all her vaccinations? They were all done at  private ped. offices. Different ones because of insurance changes but all done in the Phoenix area. She is 17, in good health nothing that there  would be  a concern for the school . This is standard for all students. 
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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mrmouse, Please  bear with me and my lack of knowledge of serology. Why would someone not seroconvert? Will this be the same with flu and other vaccines?
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Mary008 View Drop Down
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Ask them... the exact ....name of the antigen they are testing for
............................................................................................................
Have it checked with this info below.    (give info to Doc.)

 

 IgG antibodies to the hepatitis B surface antigen and core antigen, (anti- HBs and anti HBc IgG). A person negative for HBsAg but positive for anti-HBs has either cleared an infection or has been vaccinated previously.
............................................................
 
The hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) is most frequently used to screen for the presence of this infection.


It is the first detectable viral antigen to appear during infection. However, early in an infection, this antigen may not be present and it may be undetectable later in the infection as it is being cleared by the host.


The infectious virion contains an inner "core particle" enclosing viral genome. The icosahedral core particle is made of 180 or 240 copies of core protein, alternatively known as hepatitis B core antigen, or HBcAg. During this 'window' in which the host remains infected but is successfully clearing the virus, IgM antibodies to the hepatitis B core antigen (anti- HBc IgM) may be the only serological evidence of disease.

Shortly after the appearance of the HBsAg, another antigen named as the hepatitis B e antigen (HBeAg) will appear.


Traditionally, the presence of HBeAg in a host's serum is associated with much higher rates of viral replication and enhanced infectivity;

however, variants of the hepatitis B virus do not produce the 'e' antigen, so this rule does not always hold true.


During the natural course of an infection, the HBeAg may be cleared, and antibodies to the 'e' antigen (anti- HBe) will arise immediately afterwards. This conversion is usually associated with a dramatic decline in viral replication.

If the host is able to clear the infection, eventually the HBsAg will become undetectable and will be followed by IgG antibodies to the hepatitis B surface antigen and core antigen, (anti- HBs and anti HBc IgG). A person negative for HBsAg but positive for anti-HBs has either cleared an infection or has been vaccinated previously.

source of above info
 
 
 
..................
 
 
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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In laymen's terms does this mean she may have immunity but the lab didn't  do a definitive test or dig deep enough to find it? I also found a UC Davis Hep b student form that said some students with celiac disease do not show immuntiy to Hep B. I called the county health dept. and they said to get 1 booster shot and she should be fine. ??????
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Mary008 View Drop Down
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MamaBear... you go..  :)    If it were not for your insistance on knowing and asking questions ...
 
 
that word in black... all through the info is the word        blood  or   blood tests.
...................
 
 
This is from...
 
 
 
 
... so all us lay people can understand.... and you will perhaps know more than your Doc... :)     so kindly explain... and wow them.
 
..................
 
What are antigens and antibodies?

An antigen is a substance on the surface of a virus that causes a person's immune system to recognize and respond to it. When the body is exposed to an antigen, the body views it as foreign material and takes steps to neutralize the antigen by producing antibodies. An antibody is a substance found in the blood that the body produces in response to a virus. Antibodies protect the body from disease by attaching to the virus and destroying it.

What are the common blood tests available to diagnose hepatitis B?

There are many different blood tests available to diagnose hepatitis B. They can be ordered as an individual test or as a series of tests. Ask your health professional to explain what he or she hopes to learn from the tests and when you will get the results. Below are some of the common tests and their meanings. But remember: only your doctor can interpret your individual test results.

Hepatitis B Surface Antigen (HBsAg) is a protein on the surface of the hepatitis B virus. It can be detected in the blood during acute or chronic hepatitis B virus infection. The body normally produces antibodies to HBsAg as part of the normal immune response to infection.

A positive test means:

  • A person has an acute or chronic hepatitis B virus infection and can pass the virus to others

A negative test means:

  • A person does not have the hepatitis B virus in his or her blood

Hepatitis B Surface Antibody (anti-HBs) is an antibody that is produced by the body in response to the hepatitis B surface antigen.

A positive test means:

  • A person is protected or immune from getting the hepatitis B virus for one of two reasons:
      • he or she was successfully vaccinated against hepatitis B
      • OR
      • he or she recovered from an acute infection (and can't get hepatitis B again)

Total Hepatitis B Core Antibody (anti-HBc) is an antibody that is produced by the body in response to a part of the hepatitis B virus called the "core antigen." The meaning of this test often depends on the results of two other tests, anti-HBs and HBsAg.

A positive test means:

  • A person is either currently infected with the hepatitis B virus or was infected in the past

IgM Antibody to Hepatitis B Core Antigen (IgM anti-HBc) is used to detect an acute infection.

A positive test means:

  • A person was infected with hepatitis B virus within the last 6 months

Hepatitis B "e" Antigen (HBeAg) is a protein found in the blood when the hepatitis B virus is present during an active hepatitis B virus infection.

A positive test means:

  • A person has high levels of virus in his or her blood and can easily spread the virus to others

This test is also used to monitor the effectiveness of treatment for chronic hepatitis B.

Hepatitis B e Antibody (HBeAb or anti-HBe) is an antibody that is produced by the body in response to the hepatitis B "e" antigen.

A positive test means:

  • A person has chronic hepatitis B virus infection but is at lower risk of liver problems due to low levels of hepatitis B virus in his or her blood

Hepatitis B Viral DNA refers to a test to detect the presence of hepatitis B virus DNA in a person's blood.

A positive test means:

  • The virus is multiplying in a person's body and he or she is highly contagious and can pass the virus to others
      • If a person has a chronic hepatitis B virus infection, the presence of viral DNA means that a person is possibly at increased risk for liver damage

This test is also used to monitor the effectiveness of drug therapy for chronic hepatitis B virus infection.

 
 
 
 
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mrmouse View Drop Down
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MamaBear4, I did not realize that your daughter was 17. More than likely the Hep. B vaccine has worn off, so that may be the reason the antigen does not show up? If your daughter is not an I.V. drug user, exposed to blood borne pathogens in her place of employment, or practices risky sex, then her chances of contracting Hep. B is microscopic in my opinion.

By the way is the school making her show proof for the new Gardasil vaccination?

Take a look at my post on The Truth Behind the Vaccine Cover Up, Page 4.

http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/HBV/HBVfaq.htm#D11
How long does protection from hepatitis B vaccine last?

Studies indicate that immunologic memory remains intact for at least 20 years among healthy vaccinated individuals who initiated hepatitis B vaccination >6 months of age. The vaccine confers long-term protection against clinical illness and chronic hepatitis B virus infection. Cellular immunity appears to persist even though antibody levels might become low or decline below detectable levels.

Among vaccinated cohorts who initiated hepatitis B vaccination at birth, long-term follow-up studies are ongoing to determine the duration of vaccine-induced immunity.

http://www.empowereddoctor.com/hepatitits-b-vaccine-study

But how long does the Hepatitis B vaccine last? The latest research in the Annals of Internal Medicine shows the Hepatitis B vaccine lasts for 15 years, a longer period than the ten years it had been previously thought to last. However, this varies depending upon the age of the person vaccinated. Older individuals, those 20 and older, are the ones protected the longest, while children who are vaccinated between the ages of 6 months and four years are the ones protected for the shortest period.
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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Thank you to everyone who has helped me with all my questions. Thank you to Albert for this site so that we can ask these kind of questions and get prompt, brillant answers to protect ourselves and our families. I still haven't heard from the Dr. but she may be busy with Swine Flu in her office. I will let you know what happens with this but it is looking like we will probably just get another booster unless someone recommends otherwise. Thank you again.-MamaBear4
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This is more common than you think!   a number of people dont seroconvert after Hep B and other injections, they may offer her a booster
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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What other vaccinations does this commonly happen with? Should we be checking our daughter for immunity for other ones too?? Thank you ausgirl22
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dr d View Drop Down
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nice postings and GOOD info. I have never heard of schools asking for serology tests. They must have had a bad experience along the way. A booster is usually all that is required that is correct.
The Hep B is most frequently passed by drugs and unprotected sex.The best sero conversion rates ( approaching 97%)are found when the shots are given at birth,one month and at NINE months. The current schedule is birth one month and six months.
These shots are given early to get the best possible rates of protection so that in later life especially teen year patients do not end up with chronic active hepatitis need transplants and probably die while waiting for one, unless you have the means to move to the front of the line. 
Dr d
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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Thank you dr d.-MB4
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ausgirl122 View Drop Down
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I have a family member that didnt seroconvert after a rubella booster! and I know it is common amongst nursing students not to convert after having the 3 hep b shots later in life.
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MamaBear4 View Drop Down
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ausgirl, Does that mean they are not immune or that the test just doesn't show it. Are they still at risk to get it?-MB4
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