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Govt spending
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7laws View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 09 2010 at 3:44pm

yesterday I saw on the news that the US had spent 1.05 trillion dollars on the Iraq and Afghan wars. That is almost $10,000 per taxpayer and over $3,000 per a citizen. Obviously the end of spending in these two countries is far from over if the current course continues. I am wondering how you all feel about this? Instead of going to war what if they had poured $1 trillion into getting the us off it's oil addiction. I think that would have made a tremendous impact.

 I also read in the paper that the green tax incentives to wind power companies has not worked. The wind power is not spending on more equipment because the demand is not there. I am sure people want to be off oil and gas and they would like clean energy so I do not see a desire problem. I just see a policy problem. Tax incentives don't work in a severe economic crisis because businesses and people don't have the money to spend to get the break.
 
At the end of the great depression were they not building dams, roads and power grids? The govt has to put the money directly into creating jobs by spending on infrastructure directly not through tax breaks that just line the pockets of the few that have money still. ass far as I can see it is already too late. They can make the changes now so in the future 10-20 years from now there will be benefit. But for now the common citizen has completely been screwed by the govt in the last 30 years and it is showing on main street.
 
Do you watch the us debt clock? How would you feel if someone put $500 on a credit card in your name so far this year? It has happened! If you are a citizen of the US your debt is growing very fast right now.   http://www.usdebtclock.org/
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7laws View Drop Down
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I am surprised noone commented. I guess I am the only one interested LOL. It is all funny money anyways, but it is our funny money. I really want us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. If we are going to do it all half ass like we have been nothing will come out of it but a bottomless debt pit. Might as well get out.
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Turboguy View Drop Down
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Iraq's about oil, that's indisputable. Afghanistan on the other hand has nothing to do with oil. The connection you made on that point is specious at best.
 
There's just no alternative to oil. Nothing has the energy density that we can use or is as safe. Also everything else is based on oil anyway. Wind, Nuclear, Solar takes nearly as much oil to build and keep maintained as we would have used had we just burned the oil in the first place. Ethanol pollutes upwards of three times as much as oil and would actually cost us more ethanol in than the amount we'd get out in the end if we tried going to an all Ethanol economy. I'm aware that Brazil uses sugarcane to get away with it, but there's two problems with that: 1. They don't factor in the oil used for pesticides, vehicle maintenance, etc. and 2. The United States doesn't have the climate to follow suit.
 
As much as I would love the possibility to throw a trillion dollars around and whip up an alternative, that alternative just isn't there.
 
Originally posted by 7Laws 7Laws wrote:

At the end of the great depression were they not building dams, roads and power grids? The govt has to put the money directly into creating jobs by spending on infrastructure directly not through tax breaks that just line the pockets of the few that have money still. as far as I can see it is already too late. They can make the changes now so in the future 10-20 years from now there will be benefit. But for now the common citizen has completely been screwed by the govt in the last 30 years and it is showing on main street.
 
This one is very problematic. The government is not there to ensure people have jobs, nor is it there to give people jobs. When you say that the government needs to start infrastructure programs to get people working it sounds like a great idea, but the downside is that the government needs to get that money from somewhere, and that is from the very pockets of those that are keeping the economy going: Small to medium sized business.
 
The government does not create wealth, it can only take wealth. More government labor does not create economic prosperity as you're just taking money from one person and giving it to another. Cut taxes on the people across the board and watch them surprise you with economic action and small business startups.
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Hotair View Drop Down
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7laws,
It is not that I don't care about all this spending but I feel gutted and helpless. We the people have no control anymore.
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7laws View Drop Down
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Turbo, I do understand that oil is in so many things, even the plastic tupperware containers have oil. I am not aware of how much oil is in the alternative energy products. Sounds like alot by what you say. I don't mean to lump the 2 wars together for oil, just for spending.
 
As far as the govt spending I disagree. i do agree the govt should just stay out and downsize tremendously. However, the money I suggest to use for building out infrastructure they have already spent on bailouts and tax incentives that have done nothing to get the economy going. They are spending the money and we the people are not seeing any benefit. The corps are doing great though. Argentina did the same thing. They sold out and ruined their country.
 
If the normal course of business had been allowed to happen we would probably be crawling out of the recession with a bright future in front of us. Instead of letting foolish business practices fail they bailed them out. That worsened and prolonged the depression we are in. This is going to be a long one. They are making the same mistake again but the consequences could be greater.
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7laws View Drop Down
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Hotair, from what I see in the future you may end up with some difficult choices. There will be a revolt of some kind. People are going to be siding with the govt, they are going to fight back or get out of the way and leave the country. I don't know exactly how everything will go down. The americans are accustomed to a very good quality of life. That is being taken away right now.
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4=laro View Drop Down
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I agree there are really hard times coming.
1.  There has been no job recovery.
   a.  Unemployment numbers may be going down, but that doesnt mean people have jobs.
   b.  Small businesses that have closed are not counted in the unemployment numbers.
2.  All of a sudden out of the blue, bankers are meeting in secret.  Why the secrecy, what have they to hide? 
3.  Buy gold and silver, the fiat system may fail and you will have nothing.
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Mary008 View Drop Down
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 that we can use or is as safe.
..........................................................
.
That corporation with over 300 Billion Capital thinks there is one thing that may fit the bill... :)
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7laws View Drop Down
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I never would have believed that the US and Europe could go bankrupt at the same time and yet here we are. It looks like the Euro is going to bail out greece. That sets a bad precedant or tone. There are many other countries in trouble. They keep talking about the PIGS. What about England? They have been spending just like the US. I have been watching a documentary on the decline of argentina and I have seen some very eerie commonalities to us here.
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I understand your anger.  The Stimulus which was suppose to create jobs went where?  Maybe we should have stated that our tax money was to create American jobs.
And we were sold a bill of goods on the "green" jobs.  Since Stimulus I went so well ....we now are contemplating...Stimulus II or rather another "Jobs bill" ? 
Just in time for the 2010 elections.  
 
 
Tuesday, February 9, 2010, 10:26 PM
Jim Hoft

80% of Stimulus Dollars For Wind Power Goes to Foreign Companies- Including China.

US workers may be laid off but a Chinese company is helping build a massive wind farm in west Texas. The firm will receive $450 million in Stimulus cash. The project will save or create 300 jobs in Texas and 2,000 manufacturing jobs in China.
That sounds like a good use of taxpayer dollars, huh?

Click Photo For Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKbh0rS2_fw
Jon Karl from ABC News found that most green jobs created by the stimulus are created in China.

ABC(?) reported this news today:

Despite all the talk of green jobs, the overwhelming majority of stimulus money spent on wind power has gone to foreign companies, according to a new report by the Investigative Reporting Workshop at the American University’s School of Communication in Washington, D.C.

Nearly $2 billion in money from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has been spent on wind power, funding the creation of enough new wind farms to power 2.4 million homes over the past year. But the study found that nearly 80 percent of that money has gone to foreign manufacturers of wind turbines.

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sjf53 View Drop Down
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These are scary thoughts.  By some economists' thinking our economy has already collapsed, we are just being kept alive by a printing press. 
 
China's debt bomb

"No one will call this a war. But it will certainly fit the classic definition of war as politics by other means. And the Pentagon knows it.

Last March, the Pentagon held its first-ever economic-warfare war game, with China as the putative opponent and with economists and bankers (including from UBS) helping out.

Details of what unfolded are still classified. However, sources told Fox Business News that the scenario played out as planned. That was the good news.

The bad news is that China won. "

----------------------------------------------------
America's No. 1 creditor holds the ultimate weapon

By ARTHUR HERMAN

Last Updated: 4:28 AM, February 8, 2010

Posted: 2:06 AM, February 8, 2010

'He who pays the piper calls the tune": That old saying captures perfectly America's growing dependence on our No. 1 creditor in the world, Communist China.

continue......
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Tax money, this is totally going off in another direction, but since it's tax time, this urks me to no end. The earned income credit and the fact that people get waaaaay more back than they pay into the system and people who work hard (like my husband and myself) get squat and we pay into the tax system all year long. Totally not fair in my opinion. I have a friend, single mom, 3 kids, makes minimum wage, gets food stamps, free day care, free medical for the kids, free school lunches and she got over $7000.00 back in income tax return. Now she didn't pay anywhere near that much in, but because of the earned income credit (I call it the UNearned income credit) and the credit for the kids she gets huge amounts back as opposed to us. Who have one kid left at home, have health insurance through hubby's job (which we pay a portion of) pay for school lunches for our kid and have paid several thousand dollars in taxes over the past year in our paychecks we get back a big whopping $169 Federal and we get to pay state taxes.  I do not think people should get back more than they pay in, I don't care what their situation is or how many kids they have.
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