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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

HOME CANNING CAN KILL YOU

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    Posted: February 28 2006 at 6:43pm

 I would like to tell a little story for all you considering home canning:

My mother home canned, learning it from her mother......and so on. Growing up, we often ate home canned food with no problems...

Till one day ...... My mother had recently died, my dad was away for two weeks, leaving me alone, out in a rural area. One evening I opened a can of home canned peaches, and ate some. A few hours or so later I noticed something growing on the remainder ........I became horribly and violently sick not long after that. And then, I remember nothing

 

.. till days or possibly even a week later...... though I was weak and barely able to walk, but managed to make myself a can of soup. I have no memory past the onset of the sickness until I ate the soup. I do not know how much time had passed or how sick I had been.

I have had run ins with food borne pathogens before, but none like this. None that had affected my memory ...... and does so till this day. I have severe memory loss, as only about 40% of my childhood can be recalled. Some things are crystal clear, then there are entire years where I remember nothing or little that had occured. Even the years directly AFTER the eating of the peaches have memory loss gaps. It is only after my late teens that I have no gaps, and have normal memory.

I will NEVER eat home canned foods, no matter how well done. Botulism is so much MORE deadlier than the bird flu.....read the fourth line in "What causes botulism" for an idea of how lethal it is.........

in my opinion, a toxin that deadly just isn't worth the risk.

What causes botulism?

Botulism spores are resistant to heat -- even from boiling water -- and thrive in a moist, oxygen-free environment. As botulism spores reproduce, they generate one of the most extraordinarily powerful poisons on earth: one teaspoon-worth is sufficient to kill 100,000 people. Improper home canning creates the perfect environment in which to grow the botulism toxin. Because food contaminated by botulism may very well look and smell normal, there is often no warning. That is why home canning must be done properly with extreme care - any short cuts you take could be deadly.

 www.bchealthguide.org

Foodborne botulism (as distinct from wound botulism and infant botulism) is a severe type of food poisoning caused by the ingestion of foods containing the potent neurotoxin formed during growth of the organism. The toxin is heat labile and can be destroyed if heated at 80°C for 10 minutes or longer. The incidence of the disease is low, but the disease is of considerable concern because of its high mortality rate if not treated immediately and properly. Most of the 10 to 30 outbreaks that are reported annually in the United States are associated with inadequately processed, home-canned foods, but occasionally commercially produced foods have been involved in outbreaks

www.cfsan.fda.gov

Foodborne botulism is due to ingestion of a toxin formed in food. One of the most common culprits in foodborne botulism is home canned foods, especially low-acid foods such as asparagus, corn, green beans, lima beans, mushrooms, peppers, sauces, soups, meats, fish and poultry. More than 90 percent of foodborne botulism outbreaks between 1976 and 1985 were due to home-processed foods.

www.hgic.clemson.edu

You can be exposed to the bacteria causing botulism in several ways, the most familiar being by eating contaminated food. In most food-borne cases of botulism in adults, home-canned foods are responsible. The bacteria that cause botulism exist in dirt and dust as a spore, but this form is inactive and does not produce toxin. When a spore is moved into a low-oxygen environment, however, such as an enclosed jar or can, it can reproduce and make its dangerous toxin.

Home-canned vegetables that are not highly acidic (asparagus, green beans, peppers, beets and corn) are good incubators for botulism bacteria unless they are heat-treated appropriately to kill the spores during the canning process and eaten quickly after opening. The bacteria can release large quantities of toxin into the canned food jar, causing botulism symptoms in people who sample the produce. Home-canned, smoked or fermented fish is also a risk.

www.intelihealth.com

 

I am not trying to spoil anyone's fun.....

If you choose to home can, consider the risk and be very very cautious..

there are more dangerous pathogens out there than BF. And botulism is the most lethal toxin known to science.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daydreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 7:38pm
Thank you for posting this. I am sorry that you had that experience with home canned food. I, on the other hand, have never had a problem with home canned food. My mother canned food and her mother and on up the line.
There are risks with anything you do in life. But I believe that if you take all precautions and follow directions exactly you greatly reduce the risk of getting botulism.
I will continue my plans to can my own food. I don't see how you can prep and have enough meat without canning your own. Store bought canned meat is very expensive especially when you consider the size of the can that you are buying.
But, Marzinn, I will consider myself warned.
Don't put off tomorrow what you can PREP today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 7:45pm

I wasn't intending to change anyone's mind....just wanted everyone to be aware of the HUGE risk and be very very cautious and meticulous.

For years, nothing ever happened to me either.....till that one night. It only takes one jar to cause a disaster. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 9:26pm

When my great grandfather died there was awful lot of suspicion around my grandmother  she actually went to court about it, luckily she was acquitted . but to this day we often joke dont eat the  canned mushrooms. 

 So I got to admit I am nervous around home canning.  The funny thing is the only home canning Will eat are peaches now I will think about that  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 10:44pm
      PRESSURE CANNED MEAT AT THE RIGHT TEMP AND PRESSURE, IS AS SAFE AS ANYTHING CANNED IN THE STORE...DO IT RIGHT,BE ALL RIGHT    .
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Yes, that is the key, DO IT RIGHT.  Now, I am sure that those of you who do it will be very careful........

BUT my family did this for generations, my mom since she was a child... it only takes one jar. She checked all the jars for proper sealing before putting them on our shelf. This one, for all intents and purposes LOOKED perfectly normal to her experienced eye. But it wasn't.

To each his own, they say. But from having been there.......I fear BF, but I fear botulism more.  The risk, in my humble opinion, is too great. But then, I have the neurological damage to remind me of how close I came to death.  

  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 3:52am

Excellent post I am not a canner myself(don,t have the funds to start)..all the extra has gone towards basic preps, but seeing this is great..watch if you do a barter or trade with someone else, it may just get you this problem instead of the flu...

I have always worried about a few things I have prepped especially my flour..looks like i will be on google searching today..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 4:55am

Canning is safe and fun and rewarding. We do it.

but one time it almost killed me when  a jar fell of the shelf and almost hit me on the head.

If you trust people who put food in cans at stores why should you not trust yourself? I'll take my own canned food anyday over something  canned from food picked by a low paid migrant. trucked to a factory by the ton. perped by low paid workers.  additives and preservitavies included. Then dumped into a big vat and cooked. poured out of a pipe into cans hundreds at a time. and shipped off to people they don't even know to eat?

No rats or thumbs in my home canned food.

Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KatDoe67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 5:22am

Botulism cannot grow in acid foods like peaches. Botulism in indetectible by sight or smell. Botulism only grows in a properly sealed jar, without oxygen.

I seriously doubt it was botulism that you had! It sounds like a SERIOUS case of another more common, and milder form of food poisoning. One that your mom could have prevented if SHE had been the one to open the jar.

Botulism is killed by boiling a food for 10 minutes after opening the jar of food, if you are worried about the potential of it being improperly processed.

Some people HAVE to can food using methods that are not as safe as those listed in the newest books. In that case only the MOM should be OPENING the cans and serving the food, as hopefully she would know what to look for, and is aware of the EXACT risks she is taking, using the cheaper or quicker methods that are not 100.00000% safe.

Store bought jarred goods are becoming unsafer as time goes on :-( We have had some problems with food spilling out of the jars during processing, not allowing the top to seal. When we open the store bought jars there is dried food on the lips and there is not a noticable vacuum. Just in the past couple months we threw out pickles and 2 jars of Ragu. I wasn't worried about botulism, but even the less serious form of poisoning can be deadly if your immune system is impaired. It's just not worth the risk.

Also the butulism spores are more common in soil in the western part of the country, and you have to have the spores in the sealed, low acid food, for them to multiply. Botulism is a risk we should all work to prevent...but...we need to not OVERREACT to the TINY risk.

Adults really should inspect ALL jarred and canned goods before children eat them :-0

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NawtyBits Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 5:46am
I have been canning for 20 years.  Done properly, it is safe.

Use proven recipes (There are many canning cook books.)
Do NOT alter or substitute in the recipe.
Process for required times/pressures/altitudes.
When you open the finished product, if there is a strange odor, color, milky or foggy appearance, or ANYTHING you think is off, throw it away.

It really isn't as scary as one might believe.

nawty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 10:01am
Hi guys,
Love the thread. I do some home canning. I have a very large garden..But several yeas ago I discovered this wonderful macine called the vaccun food sealer (yes, the one you see on t.v!) This macine is worth its weight in gold! You can vaccum anything from food to clothes. Meat lasts a long time in the freezer. I make batches of soup and chilli and freeze them in blocks and the seal them. (the newer macines now allow you to seal liquids) I froze over 5 GALLONS of just green beans last summer (one of the most dangerous foods to pressure can) They are as fresh today ad they were when they were sealed! With a generator you do not need to worry about your freezer! How many of us throw away leftovers????????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mamabear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 11:00am
I noticed on other posts that people are freezing their flour.  Can anyone tell me how I should properly do this.  Do I take my 25lb bag, divide it out into gallon zip lock bags or do I just put the entire bag into the freezer.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daydreamer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 7:59pm

You don't have to separate it unless you want to. You can put the whole bag in and it will do the trick.

Don't put off tomorrow what you can PREP today
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 3:36pm

Hi Everyone! Great thread thank you all for all the input. We just bought our first pressure canner and went right to town with it. So for we have canned 7 quarts of chicken, 10 quarts eye round beef, 11 pints of ground beef, 16 half pints of cheese and last but not least 14 pints of butter - tomorrow we will be doing up a 10 Lb. pork loin that I picked up at Sam's Club today.  I can only hope that what I've done turns out to be safe?????  We had great fun doing it and what a wonderful feeling of accomplishmentSmile.

I would love any suggestions about cuts of meat or recipies - thought I'd get the meat out of the way now so when the veggies come in ....YEAH!!!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 3:53pm
        YOU GO MINI MOUSE, I SAID IT WOULD BE FUN......AND WHEN YOU PUT THE JAR ON THE SHELF, IT IS A GREAT FEELING...........QUESTION , HOW DID YOU DO THE CHEESE..........WE ALWAYS TAKE ONE JAR AND EAT WHAT WE MADE, TO SEE WHAT IT TASTE LIKE.........WAIT TIL YOU GET TO THE CHICKEN AND QUARTS OF BROTH.....WO   WO..........SUNSET
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 9:23am

Hi Sunset - I'm glad to hooking up with you on this canning thing - what fun!

About the cheese - I'll just tell you how I did it and if you want the links where I found the recepis I'll give them to you latter - I need help with that part.

I placed the hot, clean half pint jars in hot water and diced the cheese into the jars - as it melts I add more until I'm within the 1" top space. Then I put on the hot lids, rings and put them into a water bath for 30 minutes.   I might try my pressure canner next time - I was trying to follow directions very closely the first time around. What do you think about this method verses pressure? I haven't opened any of the jars yet - hope we don't die of the dreaded botulism.Confused

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 10:16am

 hi to all , my sister and i are going to try canning butter , she can't wait to try it, done other water bath foods, but still haven't tried the pressure  canner , fear of it blowing up in my face  lol good luck roxy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mightymouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 6:34am

Roxy - your pressure canner - if new style - should have a rubber plug that will blow if pressure starts to run away  - which would only happen if your regular vent (where the weight goes) was plugged with some kind of debris and your cooking at a "super high" temp and not following directions.  They are pretty fool proof but you do need to pay attention as temps. need to be turned down as the jars heat up to maintain a steady pressure.  That is part of the 'fun'.  The 'danger' is minimized with a modern canner.  The old time canners used to blow up on occasion.  I think blowing up one of the modern ones could only be achieved by those who also run their gas generators in their basements.  As they die from carbon monoxide poisoning - their canner blows up.  Not a good day for them at all.

The book says not to use a canner on an outdoor LP gas burner or gas range over 12,000 BTU's.  I would imagine that the heat generated could overwhelm the safety devices if you just left the burner on Max heat and went for a drive in the country -

Good luck and have fun canning.  Botulism be damned.

Nothing matters - Therefore everything matters
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 6:49am
 hi to all , and thanks mightymouse for the info , the canner is 2 yrs old, new, when i read the book , alot of warnings ,THIS WILL BLOW UP DUMMY IF YOUR NOT PAYING ATTEN TION,   i will have to learn to use it ... b ut at present everything goes in my new freezer ,but now  with bird flu  have to change that habit  no power no frozen food  .roxy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fiddlerdave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 6:48pm

I understood the danger from botulism to be from the toxin the microorganisms produce.  If it has been living on something long enough to produce the toxin, heating doesn't help - the botulism organism dies but the toxin remains.  If it's suspicious, toss it. 

I grew up on canned food and had no problems.  While I am sure I would feel differently if I had been affected by botulism, I have the attitude that that kind of error can happen store bought or home canned food.

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sunset Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2006 at 12:37pm
              MINI MOUSE , WOULD YOU PLEASE PUT  THE CANNING RECIPE FOR THE CHEESE..........WHAT KIND DID YOU CANN? ........WENT TO THE STORE YESTERDAY AND THEY HAD BUTTER ON SALE, THE LOWEST I HAVE SEEN IN TWO YEARS......1.68........WE BOUGHT A LOT AND WILL CANN IT SOON, ALSO CHICKEN LEG AND THIGHS  29 cents A POUND, THE GUY TOLD US WE WILL NEVER SEE IT LOWER, I THOUGHT , WANT TO BET, ONCE THE BF GETS HERE THEY WONT BE ABLE TO GIVE IT AWAY......ANY WAY, ONE CUT OF MEAT WE GET ON SALE IS PORK STEAK, 99 a pound THE NICE THING ABOUT CANNING IS CHEEP CUTS OF ANYTHING COMES OUT GOOD.....ALSO WE GOT VEGGIES ON SALE TO MADE VEGGIE SOUP AND CANN.......IT HAS BEANS IN IT TO.....IF YOU WANT I CAN GIVE YOU THAT TOO.                       SUNSET
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