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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Do you believe in mandatory vaccination? Why?

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sgg51 View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 19 2013 at 5:05pm
I am trying to start a meaningful discussion of vaccination reasons versus no vaccination reasons with evidenced-based independent studies that have no pharmaceutical ties or funding so we all can learn from each other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2013 at 6:23pm
My wife and myself, have been immunized for smallpox (were old ),tetanus, polio, and several other scourges of mankind, and have never gotten infected from the latter malady's. So I would have to say they worked, so I would qualify that as a meaningful reason for vaccination.
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I don't believe mandatory anything!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2013 at 10:26pm
No I don't believe in mandatory vaccination at all, I freely choose to get myself and child flu vacinations every year. I have never had the flu and my teen did get the flu 3 years ago and had a much milder case than her classmates (she had a flu shot and Tamiflu).
 
I respect others rights to choose not to get the vaccination and I respect their opinion, just like I want MY OPINION respected. I am not changing my mind, and I doubt they will either. I have asthma as does my teen. We eat healthy, I work out at the gym 1-1/2 to 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and my teen is an athlete, so we are both healthy and physically fit at this point in our lives and do a lot to try to maintain a healthy lifestyle. In my book, preventative healthcare is just part of a healthy lifestyle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MelodyAtHome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 19 2013 at 11:06pm
I believe in freedom and liberty. No mandatory anything like FluMom says.
Melody
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http://emergencypreparedness911.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2013 at 10:19am
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

I don't believe mandatory anything!!!


Pretty much this.

Caveat: As long as it's medical related. Some things that are mandatory I agree with, such as child molesters should be registered and it should be mandatory.

Actually, that should be un-necessary. They should be executed, and *THAT* should be mandatory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2013 at 11:42am
Agree on child molesters/sex offenders.   Mandatory they register and that execution for them should be mandatory for all child molesters.
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Thank you for your responses. 

Flu mom.  I am not trying to change your mind only to disseminate truth and facts that are substantiated by evidence-based science so that we all can be truly informed.

1. For those of you who chose to vaccinate what do you know about the risks if any from vaccination?  

2. What solid evidence based science do you rely on that tells you that vaccines are safe and do work?

3. Does anyone know what some of the ingredients that go into producing a vaccine and what are the possible adverse reactions to them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2013 at 7:46pm
Grasshopper sgg41 no one could ever change my mind. I lived through the polio epidemic and was grateful that they have a vaccine for that along with a vaccine for smallpox, measles, meningitis and flu.

Until you live through the polio epidemic where parents who were smart did not let their children go to movies or swimming pools or had the fear that your child's life would be forever changed... then you will never understand what a blessing vaccines are despite their side effects.

Yes I know what ingredients go into vaccines in fact I was asked by the CDC to attend a process to decide if and how to dispurse the H1N1 vaccine. The CDC is damned if they do and damned if they don't, but I for one are grateful for their work.

Grasshopper do not think any of us who have been doing this for a long time are not aware of much information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 7:46am
I can only speak for myself. I am college educated and yes I have done the research and will continue to take the flu vaccine. I do pick and choose which vaccines my teen takes for the optional ones. We opt to take mennengitis because there have been outbreaks in our school, we do NOT do the Guardasil because I did not like the research findings.
 
Like Flumom said, most of us have been doing this for awhile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 7:49am
Originally posted by sgg51 sgg51 wrote:

Thank you for your responses. 
1. For those of you who chose to vaccinate what do you know about the risks if any from vaccination?  


There are risks associated with anything. The question you have to ask yourself is a risk weight ratio for each.

If you take the vaccination, are the possibilities that you have a bad side effect higher than the chances that you actually catch the malady that you took the vaccination to prevent? My math says that the odds of catching the disease associated with *ANY* vaccination far outweigh the odds of my having a bad reaction to a vaccine.

When I say that I am possibly the most vaccinated person on this forum, it's not a stretch. I've got smallpox, anthrax, yellow fever, Hep A&B, typhoid, and about twelve others that I can't think of off the top of my head, and I have to get them every year! I'm due for another smallpox here in a month or two.

Originally posted by sgg51 sgg51 wrote:


2. What solid evidence based science do you rely on that tells you that vaccines are safe and do work?


When was the last time you had to worry about catching smallpox? Polio? Measles? Tetanus? The fact that you haven't had to think of these problems is scientific fact that Vaccines are safe and work. The vast majority of people have been getting these vaccines for a number of years now and people are living longer.

Originally posted by sgg51 sgg51 wrote:


3. Does anyone know what some of the ingredients that go into producing a vaccine and what are the possible adverse reactions to them?


Yup. Female pattern baldness, sensitivity to light, loose stool, anal leakage, halitosis, narcolepsy, kleptomania, pregnancy, and obesity.

Oh and living longer, not having to worry about diseases, being awesome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quietprepr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 11:43am
I have followed this topic with great interest for several years now. I do not believe anybody should be forced to take any meds they dont want. Having said this, I find that in my experience, the majority of those who say vaccines are the worst thing you can get have not lived through anything like Flumom described. I would not be able to live with myself if I kept my children from getting vaccinated and then had to watch them suffer and possibly die from a malady that was easily prevented.
There are risks associated with anything as Turbo said. hundreds of thousands of people die from smoking and alcohol related conditions every year, yet one person I know was lecturing me about vaccines with a glass of wine in hand. You make your choice and I make mine.
One thing I will say though...I feel if you refuse a vaccine...which is your right...then come down with the illness, I should not be required to pay for your medical treatment. Stay home and deal with your choice, just like I will if a vaccine gives me trouble.
Vaccines have saved millions upon millions of lives.
One other thing, if you do not want your child to recieve vaccines for things that could harm my child, please keep your child at home and away from children who could be effected by your choice. You have the right to make the choice for yourself and your children, but not to risk the health of mine. I do not want to sound harsh, I truly enjoy meaningful conversations like this, and I believe everyone should be able to choose.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming
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Enjoyed your simple sarcasm but for those who want to learn, here is cited factual information on health cost dollars from those who choose to receive the flu shot and contract Guillain-Barré syndrome.  This is one of many adverse reactions from the flu shot.


Possible Adverse Effects from the Flu Vaccine

It has been estimated that 1:4000 will experience an adverse reaction, a lot more than the one in millions that are quoted or written.

Reference:  JAMA, June 19, 1999 vol. 281, no.21, pg.2132

Vaccine adverse event reporting system (VAERS) – Voluntary reporting system for adverse reaction to vaccines that was formed in 1986 to compensate citizens for injuries.  It was set up because the government knows that vaccines can cause injuries and death and considers those results as a necessary sacrifice for the common good.   Anyone can report adverse reaction to vaccines including parents, health workers or the one who experienced the adverse reaction.  The FDA states that 1% to 10% of all Adverse Reactions are reported.

NOTE:  Adverse events are compared to doses distributed, not to doses administered, therefor expressed as a percentage of actual administered doses, adverse events could be significantly higher as no one knows how many doses are in storage.

At a CDC conference call for 2009-2010 flu season there was 16, 234 adverse reactions to the flu shot.   You can multiply that by at least 10 for a more accurate number of adverse reactions (162,340). 

Of the adverse reactions reported for the flu shot:  Again multiply all statistics by at least 10 for a more accurate number.

46 were fatal
605 considered non fatal – Ranges from hospitalization to a sore arm or rash etc.
93 reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS)  from the swine flu shot.  1:20 is fatal for someone that develops GBS.
112 reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) from the seasonal flu shot.  1:20 is fatal for someone that develops GBS.
Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) occurs mostly from the flu shot and Hep-B, but can be the result of other vaccines as well.  It affects the nervous system and the patient gets ascending paralysis that starts in your feet and goes on up both legs and can reach your diaphragm and are placed on a ventilator or you die.  A patient will usually spend 2 days to 6 months in the hospital and usually on a ventilator.  In a severe case you may go through months or even years of rehab and may never gain complete function back.  The CDC’s position is that the number affected statistically is insignificant compared to the number of shots administered.  But when it happens to you it is very significant.  It is also very significant the amount of health care dollars spent to help these victims recover not to mention there personal loss and the economic loss.   In the 2009-2010 flu season there was a 125 reported of GBS and 64 were verified to be caused by the flu shot.   There were 268 reports of Anaphylaxis and 115 were verified to be caused by the flu shot.  The vaccine injury court had 433 injuries filed and 26 deaths=459 claims.  144 were compensated, 43 were dismissed and 272 had pending claims.  The average for claims filed that get some kind of compensation is 25%.  The vaccine court looks for ways not to admit that vaccine(s) caused  the injuries and looks for every way possible to dismiss every case. 

A 2004 Study in Neurology, The Official Journal of the American Academy of Neurology stated that
“it costs the U.S., 1.7 billion a year to take care of these GBS patients or $319,000/patient due to vaccine induced GBS and most of the indirect costs were due to premature deaths.”  If the government & Pharmaceuticals reached their goal of 100% vaccination in the world with 7 billion people that would come out to 1.6/1,000,000 vaccine induced GBS x 7 Billion = 11,200 cases  x $319,000 = $3,572,800,000  health care dollars.
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This is for you Flu MOM.  I hope you are not to old to learn old timer?  Fear does wonders for your mythological belief system!

Oral polio caused 47,500 non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP) in India in 2011 researchers reported while India has been polio-free for a year, there has been a huge increase in non-polio acute flaccid paralysis (NPAFP).  In 2011, there were an extra 47,500 new cases of NPAFP.  Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received.  Though this data was collected within the polio surveillance system, it was not investigated.  The principle of primum-non-nocere [First, do no harm] was violated.”  This was never on the evening news as are many other negative outcomes of vaccines.

Reference:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22591873


Jonas Salk, inventor of the Inactivated Polio Virus (IPV), testified before a Senate subcommittee that nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine. "Crib death" was so infrequent in the pre-vaccination era that it was not even mentioned in the statistics, but it started to climb in the 1950s with the spread of mass vaccination against diseases of childhood.

- Harris L. Coulter, PhD.



The truth about Polio

Dr. Bernard Greenberg, a biostatistics expert, was chairman of the Committee on Evaluation and Standards of the American Public Health Association during the 1950s.  He testified at a panel discussion that was used as evidence for the congressional hearings on polio vaccine in 1962.  During these hearings he elaborated on the problems associated with polio statistics and disputed claims for the vaccine's effectiveness.  He attributed the dramatic decline in polio cases to a change in reporting practices by physicians.  Fewer cases were identified as polio after the vaccination for very specific reasons. "Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in reporting a communicable disease.  The criterion of diagnosis at that time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization

definition: "Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of non-paralytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart."  Note that "two examinations at least 24 hours apart" was all that was required.  Laboratory confirmation and presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting paralysis.  Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis.  Prior to 1954 large numbers of

these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis.

Reference: From Intensive Immunization Programs, Hearings before the Committee on Interstate & Foreign Commerce, House of Representatives, 87th Congress, 2nd Session on H.R. 10541, Wash DC: Us Government Printing Office, 1962; p. 96-97

                                                                                                                                             Simian Virus 40 (SV40):A Cancer Causing Monkey Virus from FDA-Appoved Vaccines

                                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                                             Between 1959 and 1960, Bernice Eddy, Ph.D., of the National Institute of Health (NIH) examined minced rhesus monkey kidney cells under a  microscope.  These were the cells of the same species of monkeys used to create and produce the oral polio vaccine. Dr. Eddy discovered that the cells would die without any apparent cause.  She then took suspensions of the cellular material from these kidney cell cultures and injected them into hamsters. Cancers grew in the hamsters.  Shortly thereafter, scientists at the pharmaceutical company Merck & Co. discovered what would later be determined to be the same virus identified by Eddy.  This virus was named Simian Virus 40 or SV40 because it was the 40th simian virus found in monkey kidney cells.


In 1960, Doctors Benjamin Sweet and Maurice Hilleman, the Merck scientists who named the virus SV40, published their findings:

Viruses are commonly carried by monkeys and may appear as contaminants in cell cultures of their tissues, especially the kidney . . . . The discovery of this new virus, the vacuolating agent, represents the detection for the first time of a hitherto “non-detectable” simian virus of monkey renal cultures and raises the important question of the existence of other such viruses . . . . As shown in this report, all 3 types of Sabin’s live poliovirus vaccine, now fed to millions of persons of all ages, were contaminated with vacuolating virus.

The vacuolating virus was another name for SV40.


In 1962, Dr. Bernice Eddy published her findings in the journal produced by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology. She wrote:

There is now an impressive list of oncogenic (cancer causing) viruses—the rabbit papilloma, polyoma, Rous sarcoma, the leukemia viruses . . . . It has been known for a number of years that monkeys harbor latent viruses . . . . The (SV40) virus was injected at once into 13 newborn hamsters and 10 newborn mice.  Subcutaneous neoplasms indistinguishable from those induced by the rhesus monkey kidney extracts developed in 11 of the 13 hamsters between 156 and 380 days.


Subsequent studies performed in the early 1960s demonstrated that SV40 caused brain tumors in animals and that SV40 could transform or turn cancerous normal human tissue in vitro.  A disturbing experiment performed during this era also suggested that SV40 could cause human cancers in man in vivo.  In 1964, Fred Jensen and his colleagues took tissue from patients who were terminally ill with cancer. They exposed the tissue to SV40 and then after it was transformed, they implanted the tissue back into the patient.  These implants grew into tumors in their human hosts.  This suggested the possibility that SV40 could cause cancers in man.


In July 2002, the National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine (IOM) Immunization Safety Committee convened a study into SV40 and cancer which culminated in a report published in October 2002.  According to the IOM report “SV40 Contamination of Polio Vaccine and Cancer”:

The committee concludes that the biological evidence is strong that SV40 is a transforming [i.e., cancer-causing] virus, . . . that the biological evidence is of moderate strength that SV40 exposure could lead to cancer in humans under natural conditions, [and] that the biological evidence is of moderate strength that SV40 exposure from the polio vaccine is related to SV40 infection in humans.

Reference:  http://www.sv40foundation.org/CPV-link.html


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sms Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 4:45pm

Turboguy I agree 100% with you on Child Molesters. Don't lock them up for a few years only to turn them loose again so they can do it again to another child. As far as mandatory vacinatons go first we have to know what does mandatory mean. During Hurricane Sandy they ordered Mandatory Evecuations and alot of people didn't leave and as far as I know not one was fined or locked up. I think we need to know what mandatory means by the word of the law. Can a hospital fire you for not getting the flu shot but every other person has a choice. I really don't have a answer.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DANNYKELLEY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 4:53pm

Me and mine chose to get vacccinated,we know about the risk if we do not!!!If you chose for you and your family not to, who is taking the bigger gamble you or me!!??

WHAT TO DO????
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I own a small diner in indiana,i am face to face with everyone  that walks in to my place .yes i think it should be mandatory for anybody that works with the public to  get vacinatons .i dont understand why anybody has a problem with that.i would not want to get anyone sick that comes in to my place and i would hope they would feel the same!!  
WHAT TO DO????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DANNYKELLEY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 5:14pm
as for child molesters as a father and a grandfather KILLEM DEAD
WHAT TO DO????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by sgg51 sgg51 wrote:

This is for you Flu MOM.  I hope you are not to old to learn old timer?  Fear does wonders for your mythological belief system!
 
Really, mythological?
 
Really? Ask yourself when the last case of a polio epidemic happened in the United States.
 
If you're not going to get a vaccine because you're fine with depending on herd immunity, that's cool. But for you to tell others that they should not get them and risk coming down with a malady that has been all but eradicated in the world, you're nothing but a snake oil salesman. Everything you've posted has been disproven time and again. So please, just stop.
 
When was the last time you caught the measels?
Tetanus?
Smallpox?
Mumps?
Whooping Cough?
Hepatitis A or B?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by sgg51 sgg51 wrote:

Enjoyed your simple sarcasm but for those who want to learn, here is cited factual information on health cost dollars from those who choose to receive the flu shot and contract Guillain-Barré syndrome.  This is one of many adverse reactions from the flu shot.

Then don't get it. I couldn't care less what you do. Smile
I'll be getting it, and I've gotten it every single year, and guess how many times I've gotten the flu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 7:15pm
New England Journal of med
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The Effectiveness of Vaccination against Influenza in Healthy, Working Adults

Kristin L. Nichol, M.D., M.P.H., April Lind, M.S., Karen L. Margolis, M.D., M.P.H., Maureen Murdoch, M.D., M.P.H., Rodney McFadden, M.D., Meri Hauge, R.N., Sanne Magnan, M.D., Ph.D., and Mari Drake, M.P.H.

N Engl J Med 1995; 333:889-893October 5, 1995DOI: 10.1056/NEJM199510053331401


Background

Although influenza causes substantial morbidity and mortality in all age groups, current recommendations emphasize annual immunization for people at high risk for complications of influenza. We conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled trial of vaccination against influenza in healthy, working adults

Methods

In the fall of 1994, we recruited working adults from 18 to 64 years of age from in and around the Minneapolis–St. Paul area and randomly assigned them to receive either influenza vaccine or placebo injections. The primary study outcomes included upper respiratory illnesses, absenteeism from work because of upper respiratory illnesses, and visits to physicians' offices for upper respiratory illnesses. The economic benefits of vaccination were analyzed by estimating the direct and indirect costs associated with immunization and with upper respiratory illnesses.

Full Text of Methods...

Results

We enrolled a total of 849 subjects. Base-line characteristics were similar in the two groups. During the follow-up period, consisting of the 1994–1995 influenza season (December 1, 1994, through March 31, 1995), those who received the vaccine reported 25 percent fewer episodes of upper respiratory illness than those who received the placebo (105 vs. 140 episodes per 100 subjects, P<0.001), 43 percent fewer days of sick leave from work due to upper respiratory illness (70 vs. 122 days per 100 subjects, P = 0.001), and 44 percent fewer visits to physicians' offices for upper respiratory illnesses (31 vs. 55 visits per 100 subjects, P = 0.004). The cost savings were estimated to be $46.85 per person vaccinated.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199510053331401

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 8:52pm
Gee, guys when things get hot new people join us and try to covince us not to take vaccinations. Well, it has never worked in the past and it won't work now.

I believe we now know sgg51 does not believe in vaccines and we respect his right to not take them but PLEASE sgg51 enough on this subject. We have better things to write about.

For me I am done with this subject!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 9:04pm
I am pretty ANTI-vaccine for routine stuff like the flu.  It would have to be a pretty severe disease for me to accept the risks accociated with vaccinations.
 
I had the measles, chicken pox, whooping cough, lots of flu, and also got the smallpox vaccine in my right eye when I will a child.  I almost lost my eye to this. 
 
I feel that the small, but extreme, dangers of vaccines outweigh the slight benefits that we might get from them.
 
I don't want anybody injecting me with toxic metals or known carcinogens for something that we routinely get over such as the flu.
 
If you think vaccines are truly safe then you need to read about it.
POLIO:
 
One of my all time favorites!  Read the interview with Merck scientist, Maurice Hilleman.
Dr Maurice Hilleman: …Right. So then the next thing you know is, 3, 4 weeks after that we found that there were tumors popping up on these hamsters.
 
Stuff found in vaccines;
Formaldehyde (known carcinogen & used to preserve cadavers)
Aluminum (causes alzheimer's and dementia)
MSG or Monosodium Glutamate, (an excitotoxin)
Thimerosal (preservative that is still found in some vaccines & is toxic to the brain/kidneys)
I think this is still found in multi-dose vaccines, but not the individual vaccines.
 
 

Objectives

  • To conduct population-based research on immunization safety questions
  • To evaluate immunization safety hypotheses that arise from medical literature, passive surveillance systems, adjustments to immunization schedules, and introduction of new vaccines
  • To guide national immunization policy decisions
  • To partner with healthcare providers, public health officials, and others to ensure the public has the best available information regarding the risks and benefits of immunization.

Documents released through the Freedom of Information Act detail the transcript of a meeting held in June of 2000 between members of the CDC, the FDA, and representatives from the vaccine industry.

Although this conference is apparently concerned with the effects of mercury in the form of thimerosal on infant brain development, participants seemed to have limited knowledge about mercury. None of the well known experts were invited, such as Dr. Ascher from Bowman Grey School of Medicine or Dr. Boyd Haley, who has done extensive work on the toxic effects of low concentrations on the CNS.

Dr. Johnston, pg. 14-15 & 19-20: (Chair of the meeting and a pediatrician-immunologist at the University of Colorado): “Thimerosal is cleaved (in the body) into ethylmercury and thiosalicylate which is inactive… The data on its toxicity (shows) it can cause neurologic and renal toxicity, including death.”

There are just a host of neurodevelopmental data that would suggest that we’ve got a serious problem.
 
Dr. Weil, pg. 24the potential for aluminum and central nervous system toxicity was established by dialysis data. To think there isn’t some possible problem here is unreal.”
 
This research is on-going for a reason!
 
______________________________________________________________
How can anyone want a routine flu vaccine after Baxter put live H5N1 avian flu viruses in it's flu vaccine????
 
"Deerfield, Illinois-based pharmaceutical company Baxter International Inc. has just been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries."
 
"In addition, as we have previously reported, those that have a stake in the Tamiflu vaccine include top globalists and BIlderberg members like George Shultz, Lodewijk J.R. de Vink and former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.
 
Authorities in both Europe and the U.S. have openly detailed plans for martial law, quarantine and internment should a bird flu pandemic occur.
 
The other motivation,
as we have exhaustively documented on this website for years, is the fact that elites throughout history have openly stated that they want to see a world population reduction of around 80 per cent. Shocking stories like this take the plausibility of that narrative out of the realms of conspiracy theory and into the dangerous reality of conspiracy fact."

______________________________________________________________

 
You can find an abundance of information on the internet pro & con regarding vaccine safety, BUT THE JURY IS STILL OUT on vaccine safety!  There are on-going studies examined by the CDC.  If vaccines were totally safe, why do they continue to study vaccine safety?
 
Some risks are small, but the actual health problems can be quite severe.  Do you want to play Russian Roulette with your health for something as benign as the flu in a healthy adult?
 
If you get the flu, and get over it as most healthy adults do, you can get a lifelong immunity to it. 
 
"As many as sixty million people were infected with the H1N1 virus, although only about 18,000 people are known to have died from the disease. What researchers are now discovering is what swine flu leaves behind: a superpowered immune system with antibodies that can kill off any new flu virus, not just a return of H1N1."
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 21 2013 at 9:29pm
Slight benefits?

I'll ask again: when was the last time you caught typhoid? Hep a or b? Smallpox?

So you don't believe in vaccines, and yet readily admit to having contracted the measles and whooping cough? LOL!!! You just proved my point for me.

I've never caught polio, measles, mumps, hepatitis (though know for a 100% fact that I was exposed because the dirtball spit blood in my face) smallpox, whooping cough, tetanus, etc and haven't ever even had to give them a second thought. Not even once.

I'd say that the fact that I don't now, nor ever have had to worry about catching any of the above is a bit more than a "slight benefit."

And find me something that isn't a carcinogen. Aluminum is gained from drinking everything from milk to soda and beer. Mono sodium glutamate is in pretty muc every food you've ever eaten. Next time you're enjoying a pack of Doritos, know that MSG is part of your snack.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Turbo,
 
This is my opening statement above. 
"I am pretty ANTI-vaccine for routine stuff like the flu.  It would have to be a pretty severe disease for me to accept the risks associated with vaccinations. "
 
I'm not 100% anti-vaccine, but getting them routinely, year after year, for the flu is not an acceptible risk for me.  That oral vaccine for polio that I took in the 50's had cancer cells in it.  You are also totally ignoring what Baxter did by putting live H5N1 in their vaccines?  How can you argue with that?
 
Also, judging by the fact that you replied so quickly demonstrates that you didn't bother reading much of what I posted. 
 
And for your edification, I had the whooping cough vaccine as a child, but caught the new strain that was circulating.  I did not die from it either.
 
The fact is that you are so pro vaccine that you refuse to read the literature, even that which I posted from the CDC!
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If you think vaccines are safe, then you MUST watch this short video.
 
Vaccines will be used to modify human behavior.
 
 
 
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Living in a risk area I was once late with my vaccination for hepatis - and as a result had a "mild" case - I was only off work for 6 weeks, and my BMI dropped below 18.  I have never felt so weak (and not to mention throwing up all over my wife).

Normally we don't get flu shots but when the swine flu came around, I encouraged my wife to get the vaccine as she is in a number of risk categories, and being a new strain things might go badly with her.  I fortuantely am in none of the risk categories and so I was not eligable for the vaccine before the flu came to our area [here vaccines were rationed by risk groupings]  I still had not made up my mind before events took the decision out of our hands, although I was leaning towards not having the vaccine as it seemed that I was in the age bracket that seemed to have some resistance. 

As H7N9 seems to be targetting older people, I might be more likely to consider a vaccine for it IF one was available in time.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 6:48am
Ok, everyone gets it, everyone has the right to choose if they want to get one or not. I don't think anyone on this board is going to change anothers mind about their decision on whether to take a vaccine or not, so it is pretty much a mute point. And we don't need 10 different posts about whether it's safe to get the vaccine or not because someone wants to push their personal agenda. It's getting old. I guess I've been here too long Smile, lol, I'm getting old and cranky, lol.
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Excuse me, but I thought this was a discussion forum.  How can you censure us because you don't believe in the things that we do?  If you think that vaccinations are great and wonderful then that's you're opinion which you're fully entitled to.  You don't need to follow this particular blog.  But, you have no right to tell us not to write about this anymore just because you've heard it already and don't agree!
 
How can you moderate anything in a fair and unbiased way?  The wonderful thing about this world is that we have the right to read what we want to.  If you don't like what we've written, then you don't have to read it!
 
I have no personal agenda, but it seems like you do.
 
If you want to censure someone, then censure those people who like to laugh and ridicule others for having different points of view.  There has been a lot of nastiness on this forum and I have gotten quite sick of the name calling and sarcasm.  Censure THAT!
 
Some of us on this particular blog have done extensive research on vaccines and post here in an attempt to enlighten others.  You don't have to agree by any means.  People should have information on both sides of a subject and if this subject comes up again, I will be there to post on it.
 
At one point in my life I was very pro-vaccine.  I used to get the flu shots every year until I started reading the research.  It was this research that changed my mind and people have the right to know even if you don't agree.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2013 at 5:44pm
Elver, I have not censured anyone regarding this topic. All I was stating was it gets old when an obvious new member comes here pushing an agenda, any agenda, regardless of the topic, the most recent just happens to be this subject. Yes, it is a discussion forum. Actually I look at every thread because I'm a moderator, so in a sense I do follow them. No, I do not have a personal agenda, but I will definitely post my opinion, if I feel like it, most topics I like to keep my mouth shut!
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Hey, if you don't believe in vaccines don't take them if you do take them but you will not convience the other of the others stance. A good reason to not discuss like religion and politics.
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I couldn't disagree with you more.  Statistically speaking, 96% of the people who have their minds made up will not change them, but 4% are open to embracing a new idea.  It is this 4% that I hope to share information with.  I am not offended by your beliefs, so you shouldn't be offended by mine.
 
I used to get the flu shot every year, so I guess I was one of the 4% who was open to embracing a new idea.  So, I am proof that information can change a person's mind.
 
Why is it that the subject of vaccinations should not be discussed?  If you are that offended by my anti-vaccine stance, then perhaps it is you who should not be reading these posts.  But, do not tell me what I shouldn't post based on your view of the world.  You have the option of simply not reading it which is what I would advise you to do at this point rather than tell me what I shouldn't be posting here.
 
There are many people here who would love to censure things they don't believe in.  Hopefully, you are not one of them.  There are also those people on this forum who continually belittle, laugh at or call other people derogatory names because they don't believe the same things.  Those are the people who need censorship, not I!
 
I HAVE NO AGENDA OTHER THAN PROVIDING INFORMATION!  You have the option of disagreeing with me or simply not reading it.  If you disagree, then let's have a discussion.  This is, after all bird flu forum, and flu vaccines should be open for discussion, not CENSORSHIP!
 
sgg51 who started this post sent me a 116 page power point regarding vaccinations.  I highly recommend that you ask him to send it to you.  It is saved in Office 2000 format, but if you have an older version of office I'm sure he would be happy to save it in an older version.  I am positive that anyone who reads it would be enlightened.  I've only read a little so far, but the history of vaccinations is very interesting and would undoubtedly surprise you.  You can drag it to your desktop and scan it if you're worried about receiving a virus.
 
Therefore, I am glad that sgg51 came on this forum because I have more to read on the subject because of him.  Just because you're not willing to read what we post doesn't mean that others feel the same way!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 3:29am
just look at what has happened in UK Wales, people not getting there kids vaccinated, now there is

 an epidemic of Measles, one dead more very very sick, you must have rocks in your head if you dont

vaccinate your child, here in Australia, your kids cant go to school unless they up to date on there

vaccinations
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More than 2,500 people have received MMR vaccinations in a fourth weekend of special clinics to tackle the Swansea measles epidemic.

Health board officials welcomed the high turnout at sessions in Swansea, Neath Port Talbot and Bridgend.

The figure includes 570 people who received jabs at the first clinic to be held in Llanelli, Carmarthenshire.

More than 940 measles cases have been confirmed with 83 people needing hospital treatment.

Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University Health Board (ABM), which covers the Swansea area, plans more evening drop-in clinics during the coming week.

The number of cases in the epidemic which began last November could pass 1,000 over the weekend if current trends continue.

Dr Sara Hayes, ABM Director of Public Health, said they were really pleased to see so many people attending the clinics on Saturday.

Continue reading the main story

Evening drop-in MMR clinics this week

  • Wednesday 1 May: Neath Port Talbot Hospital, 17:30 - 20:30 BST
  • Thursday 2 May: Princess of Wales Hospital, Bridgend, 18:00 - 21:00 BST
  • Thursday 2 May: Morriston Hospital, Swansea, 18:00 - 21:00 BST

"By having your MMR you are not only protecting yourself from a horrible virus, but others such as very young babies and people who are vulnerable because they are having treatment for conditions like cancer.

"We are particularly targeting children and teenagers aged between 10 and 18 years of age who probably missed having the MMR when they were little.

"We are going in to more secondary schools offering the MMR, but if you don't want to wait or miss the session in school we are running some evening drop-in clinics next week or you can go to your GP."

Schools targeted

The neighbouring Hywel Dda health board said around 570 people were vaccinated at the first drop-in clinic held in Llanelli, Carmarthenshire.

The board described it as "very successful" with the ages of the people who received the vaccination ranging from six months to 94 years old.

Sixty five cases have been confirmed in Llanelli since the start of the year.

All schools in the Hywel Dda region - which covers Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire - will offer vaccinations to an estimated 4,000 schoolchildren over the next four weeks.

Two other health boards - Anuerin Bevan and Cardiff and Vale - held drop-in MMR clinics on previous weekends.

Cases have also been identified in north Powys, and the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board serving north Wales is beginning a programme of vaccination sessions in schools.

Gareth Williams Gareth Colfer-Williams was suffering from measles but had other health problems

So far, only one suspected death has been linked to the measles outbreak.

Further tests are to be carried out on Gareth Colfer-Williams, 25, from Swansea, to establish the cause of death.

He had measles but was known to have suffered other health problems including asthma. A post-mortem examination proved inconclusive.

Meanwhile the Welsh Conservatives' health spokesman has called for a public inquiry.

Darren Millar told his party conference in Swansea: "Once this epidemic has subsided - as it eventually will - the Welsh Conservatives will press for a public inquiry into the outbreak to ensure that lessons can be learned."

In England, a £20m catch-up campaign already has 1.2 million vaccines ready to go amid concerns that that a generation of children have low levels of protection against measles after the MMR scare more than a decade ago.

The campaign aims to vaccinate children yet to be protected with the MMR - measles, mumps and rubella - jab by September.

Run through GPs, schools and community groups, it will focus on children aged 10 to 16.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 3:44am
and would you want  Mumps as an adult NAH never very very painful and you end up sterile!!!!, if you

not been vaccinated you just living off the rest of us that have "herd cover" ever heard of it ??? it

means you covered by the very fact the rest of us have had a shot , so the BUG cant infect most so it

dies out, the more not vaccinated the more chance you got of getting very sick , and putting your

kids  at risk, me i have never hesitated,
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Measles outbreak: New figures expected to show more than 1,000 cases

Public Health Wales will release the latest figures on the day an inquest is opened into the death of a 25-year-old who is confirmed to have had measles

A toddler receives the MMR injection at Singleton Hospital, Swansea A toddler receives the MMR injection at Singleton Hospital, Swansea

Cases of measles in one of the biggest epidemics seen in the UK for more than two decades is likely to top 1,000 today as the latest figures are released.

The latest numbers will be released later by Public Health Wales and are expected to show another jump from last week’s figure of 942.

In the past few weeks, health officials have seen up to 20 new cases a day and, despite a widespread vaccination programme, many people in the Swansea area, where the epidemic is centred, are still at risk.

The figures come as an inquest into the death of a 25-year-old man is opened today.

Gareth Colfer-Williams was found dead at his Swansea flat and was confirmed to have had measles at the time.

An initial post-mortem by Swansea coroner was found to be inconclusive about whether the virus was the cause of death.

Despite this, officials have said that, as long as the epidemic continues to grow they “would not be surprised” to see a death in Wales.

Although the outbreak, which is one of the biggest since the introduction of the MMR in 1988, is centred on Swansea, rates of measles are high throughout the Abertawe Bro Morgannwg University (ABMU), Powys and Hywel Dda health board areas, especially in Neath Port Talbot and north Powys.

The current outbreak has dwarfed previous outbreaks seen in Wales since the introduction of the MMR, with the previous highest figure reaching 159 in 2009, while 116 cases were recorded in 2012.

A major schools vaccination programme is continuing in South and West Wales as health officials try to target at-risk children, in particular those aged between 10 and 18 years old. It is thought that many in this group may have missed the MMR because of Andrew Wakefield’s now discredited research which linked the vaccine to autism.

Schools in the Swansea and Neath Port Talbot will be visited for the third week in a row, while vaccinations will start in schools in Bridgend from next week.

Yesterday, officials from Hywel Dda Health Board started visiting schools in Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire for the first time since the outbreak started.

Dr Marion Lyons, director of health protection at Public Health Wales, urged parents to consent to their children having the MMR vaccine before the summer examinations start.

She said: “Young people have important examinations coming up and we need to make sure that those aged between 10 and 18 are vaccinated so their preparation for these examinations are not affected.

“We have seen that measles can be potentially fatal and no one should be complacent about the severity of measles. It can kill but can be prevented by a simple, safe vaccine.”

Professor Tom Horlick-Jones, an expert in risk and health at  Cardiff University’s school of social sciences who predicted a measles crisis a decade ago following the distrust of the MMR, said that young people needed to be persuaded to have the vaccine.

He said: “Having the jab needs to be seen as a ‘cool’ sort of thing to have. If you haven’t had it done, then you’re missing the boat, not keeping up with the crowd.

“We need some teenage role models to come forward and be seen to have the jab. Young people often have strong, idealistic views about how they would like the world to be. Here’s the chance for them to remind their parents of what needs to be done.”

Last weekend, 1,900 vaccinations were given at drop-in clinics in the ABMU aream while other sessions were also held by Aneurin Bevan Health Board and Hywel Dda.

Evening drop-in sessions will take place between 5.30pm and 8.30pm  tomorrow at Neath Port Talbot Hospital.

Two more clinics will take place on Thursday, May 2 between 6pm and 9pm at the Princess of Wales Hospital, Bridgend, and Morriston Hospital, Swansea. Those attending have been asked not to arrive early so they do not disrupt other clinics.

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New vaccines to join immunisation schedule

30 April, 2013 | By The Press Association

Vaccination programmes to protect millions more Britons against flu, shingles and diarrhoea have been added to the UK’s immunisation schedule.

Children of the age of two, approximately 650,000, will be given a nasal flu vaccine from September as part of a wider vaccination programme.

Pilots to vaccinate primary school children and those of a younger age will operate in some areas to ensure the programme is ready for all pre-school and primary school children in 2014. Pilots for secondary school children will operate in some areas next year with the intention of branching out the programme in 2015.

There will be a shingles vaccination programme for 70-year-olds and a catch-up programme for those aged 79 or below. The idea is to reduce the 30,000 cases seen each year in people over 70 by 40%. The programme will start in September, with approximately 800,000 people set to be vaccinated in the first 12 months.

A rotavirus vaccination programme will begin in July that will see children less than four months old vaccinated against rotavirus - the cause of around 140,000 diarrhoea cases each year in children under the age of five. Almost one in 10, approximately 14,000 children with rotavirus, are forced to spend time in hospital. It is predicted the vaccine will reduce the number of vomiting and diarrhoea cases brought on by rotavirus by 50%, which could lead to 70% fewer hospital stays.

Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisation at Public Health England, added: “The introduction of the oral rotavirus vaccine in the US and parts of Europe has had a major impact on preventing young children from developing this unpleasant vomiting and diarrhoeal disease.

“The vaccine is very easy to administer and involves placing a droplet of liquid into the babies’ mouths. In the countries where the vaccine has already been introduced, the uptake has been high and has resulted in rapid and sustained reductions in childhood rotavirus hospitalisations.

“We are excited to be offering this vaccine as part of the national infant immunisation programme in the UK.

“As well as the rotavirus vaccine for infants, the upcoming introduction of childhood influenza and adolescent MenC immunisation programmes along with routine vaccination against shingles for older adults will all continue to contribute to our highly successful vaccination programme which we can boast in the UK.”

 

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Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:

Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

I don't believe mandatory anything!!!


Pretty much this.

Caveat: As long as it's medical related. Some things that are mandatory I agree with, such as child molesters should be registered and it should be mandatory.

Actually, that should be un-necessary. They should be executed, and *THAT* should be mandatory.
 
 
Totally agree!!!  Execution pronto... they can NOT be rehabilitated, studies have shown it and "they" have admitted they can't control themselves.  Innocence is stolen.  Little lives are FOREVER changed.  There isn't a sentence harsh enough in my opinion, beside maybe burning in the lake of fire forever & ever where the worm dieth not.
 
Sounds about right.
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The exact cause of Guillain-Barre syndrome is unknown. In about 60 percent of cases, an infection affecting either the lungs or the digestive tract precedes the disorder. Recent surgery, immunization and pregnancy have also been associated with Guillain-Barre syndrome. But scientists don't know why such an infection can lead to Guillain-Barre syndrome for some people and not for others. Many cases appear to occur without any triggers.

In Guillain-Barre syndrome, your immune system — which usually attacks only foreign material and invading organisms — begins attacking the nerves that carry signals to your brain. In the most common form of Guillain-Barre syndrome in North America, the nerves' protective covering (myelin sheath) is damaged, and this interferes with the signaling process, causing weakness, numbness or paralysis.

 
 
 

What causes GBS?

Many things can cause GBS; about two-thirds of people who develop GBS symptoms do so several days or weeks after they have been sick with diarrhea or a respiratory illness. Infection with the bacterium Campylobacter jejuni is one of the most common risk factors for GBS. People also can develop GBS after having the flu or other infections (such as cytomegalovirus and Epstein Barr virus). On very rare occasions, they may develop GBS in the days or weeks after getting a vaccination.

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You are no more likely to get GBS if you get a vaccine that you would be of getting GBS by the flu itself.  Infections make up the majority of cases of GBS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1NiceGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2013 at 2:58pm
I think the best source on vaccines is Dr. Russel Blaylock a very esteemed neurosurgeon.
In an interview he stated:

Dr. Blaylock: Well, it's a violation of the Nuremberg medical code, for one, you know this was to protect the public against being experimental animals for governments or vaccine companies. So suddenly we have this violation of Nuremberg protection, saying that you should be forced into a vaccine trial. And if your health is destroyed during testing of this experimental vaccine, then that's just the price you pay for living in this society. Well that's not certainly consistent with the founding of this republic, that people are forcibly put into experimental trials.


"Chance favors the prepared mind."
Louis Pasteur

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quietprepr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 7:26am
Originally posted by 1NiceGuy 1NiceGuy wrote:

I think the best source on vaccines is Dr. Russel Blaylock a very esteemed neurosurgeon.
In an interview he stated:

Dr. Blaylock: Well, it's a violation of the Nuremberg medical code, for one, you know this was to protect the public against being experimental animals for governments or vaccine companies. So suddenly we have this violation of Nuremberg protection, saying that you should be forced into a vaccine trial. And if your health is destroyed during testing of this experimental vaccine, then that's just the price you pay for living in this society. Well that's not certainly consistent with the founding of this republic, that people are forcibly put into experimental trials.


I understand and like questions that evoke serious conversation. This is one of those. As I stated before, I am a believer in vaccinations and to me the lack of smallpox, polio, and diptheria are all the proof I need. I do not believe in mandatory anything and this includes vaccinations. Having said this, is anyone aware of an instance where vaccination was forced in the US? I know about the school children needing vaccinations or they cannot attend, but as parents we have the option to not send them to that school. Beyond that instance, I do not know of any time it was called mandatory for the general public to get any vaccine. It certainly is not beyond the realm of possibility when you see how the government erodes our freedoms year after year, but I do not recall this happening yet.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2013 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

Excuse me, but I thought this was a discussion forum.  How can you censure us because you don't believe in the things that we do?  If you think that vaccinations are great and wonderful then that's you're opinion which you're fully entitled to.  You don't need to follow this particular blog.  But, you have no right to tell us not to write about this anymore just because you've heard it already and don't agree!
 
I didn't see what you're talking about. She didn't delete any of your posts, and thus didn't censor you in the least.
 
Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

How can you moderate anything in a fair and unbiased way?  The wonderful thing about this world is that we have the right to read what we want to.  If you don't like what we've written, then you don't have to read it!
 
Ahhhh but that's the beauty! The First Amendment goes both ways. If I don't like what you say, and I read it anyway, I can say anything I want about your argument and poke as many holes in your logic as I want. Free Speech is a a double edged sword. Get used to it, especially if you're going to be the first to bring it up.
 
Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

If you want to censure someone, then censure those people who like to laugh and ridicule others for having different points of view.  There has been a lot of nastiness on this forum and I have gotten quite sick of the name calling and sarcasm.  Censure THAT!
 
Oh, so now we can't laugh faulty arguments not based in reality? I thought you were all about free speech? See Elver, you've always been like this, it's just that nobody brings it up: You think that your arguments are above reproach and get all butthurt and indignant whenever someone pokes holes in your positions. I've seen you howl for Mahshadin's eviction from this forum no fewer than twenty times because he had a little fun with your ideas and positions.
 
Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

Some of us on this particular blog have done extensive research on vaccines and post here in an attempt to enlighten others.  You don't have to agree by any means.  People should have information on both sides of a subject and if this subject comes up again, I will be there to post on it.
 
Oh? Are you a medical professional? Do you have a degree in epidemiology? Virology? Published papers of dangers of vaccination? I regularly converse with the Director of Cytopathology of a large military hospital. Read that again: I have the opportunity to regularly talk with a Pathologist. He says to get the vaccine and that people that howl not to are snake oil salesmen. As he is literally one of about 200 specialists in his field, I'll go with whatever he says.
 
Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

At one point in my life I was very pro-vaccine.  I used to get the flu shots every year until I started reading the research.  It was this research that changed my mind and people have the right to know even if you don't agree.
 
Great. Rock on, I'm glad you have your opinions, but they're OPINIONS. For every source your provide screaming that there's a chance that you could get a malady from a Vaccine, there are twenty that say the chances of which are negligibly low. Vaccines are like anything in this world: A Game of Russian Roulette. If the chances of me having a bad reaction to a Polio or Flu vaccine are 1 in 300,000 I'll take those odds with a smile on my face.
 
Just as you say that people have a right to know your position even if I don't agree, they have the same right to know that I DO NOT agree with you too.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2013 at 8:49pm
Turbo,
 
The problem with trying to have any discussion with you is that when you disagree, rather than simply presenting evidence to back up your argument or even discussing things in a civilized manner, you like to put people down.  I don't care if anyone disagrees with me, but all to often, you simply "LOL" or try to make the other person feel as if their opinions are stupid or don't matter.
 
Above, for instance, you argue that I'm not a medical professional, but then neither are you.
 
Also, you referred to me as getting "butthurt".  I don't care if people disagree with me one bit.  I do care how they disagree and you have a bad habit of trying to put people down in the process.  There is no need to get nasty & sarcastic.
 
Above you also said; "I've seen you howl for Mahshadin's eviction from this forum"  For starters I never knew of Mahshadi's eviction, and never "howled" as you said above.  I thought he just quit on his own.  So, where on earth did you come up with this?
 
When a senior moderator says that they're tired of hearing it and assumes that anyone opposing routine vaccines has an agenda it sure sounds to me as if they are trying to get us to drop the subject.  It sure felt like sensorship to me, but I plowed on and ignored it anyway at the risk of getting kicked off this forum.  I felt that it was intimidation of a sort.  If I was kicked off the forum for expressing my opinions on the matter, then it wouldn't be a forum.
 
If you have faith in your patholotist I don't really care.  I simply state my opinions and try to provide information that I happen to agree with.  I don't dislike the fact that anyone has an opposing opinion, I dislike the manner in which they disagree.  Why can't you simply state your position rather than trying to make personal attacks all the time?
 
Once again you wrote; "For every source your provide screaming"  Well, I don't scream, but I'm really sick and tired of your sarcasm.
 
Your pathologist doesn't believe that routine vaccines can harm people, but there are other pathologists who would disagree with him and a whole bunch of doctors too.  Attached is a letter from a pathogist who disagrees with a mandatory hepatits B vaccine in Virginia.
 
You might want to read this doctor's opinion regarding routine vaccines.
 
In fact, our own CDC is still studying the safety of vaccines!  If they had already been proven to be totally safe, then why are they wasting their time doing this?
 
Just because you disagree with opinions different than your own doesn't mean that their agruments are "faulty arguments" as you said above.  They're only "faulty arguments" according to your opinion.  This tactic is another form of a put down.
 
Lastly, sgg51 sent me a huge power point that you might be interested in.  All you have to do is e-mail him.  Even if your mind is 100% made up it wouldn't hurt you to listen to other evidence on this issue if you wanted to.  But stop trying to blast me with more of your sarcasm because you don't agree with me.
 
 
 
 
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