Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Do you believe in mandatory vaccination? Why? |
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Elver
Valued Member Joined: June 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7778 |
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The EPA classifies a liquid with 200 parts per billion of mercury as hazardous waste. The limit for drinking water is only 2 parts per billion.
A typical flu shot contains 50,000 parts per billion of mercury. (5 millileter flu shot)
Hepatitis B contains 250 micrograms per shot
DTaP contains up to 625 micrograms per shot
Hepatitis A contains 25p micrograms per shot
Anthrax contains 600 mg of aluminum per shot
Anything greater than 25mcg is supposed to be labeled with;
"
WARNING: This product contains aluminum that may be toxic. Aluminum may reach toxic levels with prolonged parenteral administration if kidney function is impaired. Premature neonates are particularly at risk because their kidneys are immature, and they require large amounts of calcium and phosphate solutions, which contain aluminum. ...etc. Vaccines are exempt from this warning and are not required to follow the maximum dosage of 25mcg.
Read the Dr. Sears article about aluminum here. http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/vaccines/vaccine-faqs
Now watch the video on how mercury destroys the brain.
According to Lilly's Material Safety Data Sheet, Thimerosal contains 49.6% w/w organically-bound mercury.
The EPA states the level of mercury an adult can receive safely is 0.8mcg/day.
The FDA safe level is <1mcg of mercury/gram of fish and the Japanese Gov. said that a safe level is <0.3 mcg/gram of fish.
Thimerisol has been removed from most childhood vaccines & I believe the single dose flu vaccine. The multi-dose vials need to be shaken every time to disperse the Thimerosal evenly or the last dose may contain more than 25mcg.
Thimerisol is still in tetanus toxoid, multi-dose seasonal flu vaccines all H1N1 (swine flu shots) and meningococcal vaccines as a preservative.
My conclusion is this. You may not have any adverse effects from the shots you've been given so far, but you may as you get older. You may have an increased risk of alzheimer's, kidney disease, neurological problems, etc. Take your chances at your own peril down the road.
The CDC has now recognized that the mercury in the preservative Thimerosol is dangerous and has taken steps to remove it from children's vaccines. If you're going to get a flu shot, then ask for Thimerosol free or single dose vials. |
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Penham
Chief Moderator Moderator Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14913 |
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Since my name keeps being brought up here. I stand my ground that yes, I do believe that when a new person comes here and the only thing they post about is one or two topics that they are against, yes they have an agenda. I have not censored anyone! And yes, even though I am a mod, I have feelings and thoughts too and I suppose I am not allowed to post them? Sorry but I am also a member, so I can post my thoughts and feelings just like everyone else. As far as moderating/banning etc. we're pretty loose here, per Albert, the owners request, we have had to do some heavy moderating and banning in the past but it's been awhile. We don't like to, we believe in free speech and letting people express their opinions. The swineflu board is very heavily moderated for people who would like a different option, a lot of bird flu discussion going on over there right now.
You can tell when a member is coming here to learn about something or wants to ask questions regarding a topic. A lot of people are afraid to ask questions because of the responses they get from other people, they are afraid of getting "jumped on" for what they say. So they just don't ask. I've seen people get jumped on a million times on message boards, I've been hanging on them for 15 years. This is a place for people to learn from and for information to be shared. We are here to help people, share information and answer questions.
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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here,here , Penham
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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Elver
Valued Member Joined: June 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7778 |
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Penham,
On page 2 of this thread you said; "And we don't need 10 different posts about whether it's safe to get the vaccine or not because someone wants to push their personal agenda. It's getting old."
Above you also said; "A lot of people are afraid to ask questions because of the responses they get from other people, they are afraid of getting "jumped on" for what they say."
(Gee, I wonder why.)
It sure seemed to me that you were trying to intimidate anyone from speaking further on this subject regarding an opposing view from your own.
Then above you said that this is a forum that we can learn from. Well, no one can learn from another person if they're intimidated not to post anything again.
Well, this sgg51 surely wasn't welcomed, so I'd be surprised if he hangs out here any longer. As for me I'm so glad that he came. He sent me a power point that he obviously has put hundreds of hours into. It is extremely informative if anyone asks him for it. sgg51 was courteous and respectful and was met with sarcasm and a "go away" attitude. How on earth can he stay here to post on anything else since he's being intimidated to leave? No one has given him the chance to stick around or the respect. I've been here for years, even before my current logon name says so. In all this time I've never read any post that says; "It's getting old".
As far as I can see sgg51's only agenda is to provide information and have a respectful discussion, which obviously appears to be unwelcome.
The literature is full of information regarding the fact that major diseases such as polio and smallpox had been reducing drastically on their own prior to their respective vaccines even being introduced. This was caused by better sanitation and hygiene, not the vaccine.
If you asked sgg51 for his Power Point, he cites the exact facts and sources, such as the United States Census. This is a wealth of information and I am very grateful that he took an extreme amount of effort to compile it. Instead of trying to run him out on a rail, perhaps this forum should welcome people who hold different points of view and give them an opportunity to stay long enough to post on other topics.
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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Absolute bulls hit! He didn't ask any questions, he made this thread trying to push his BS agenda under the guise of a "Discussion" which was anything but. Then when someone disagreed with him, he got butthurt. If she'd wanted to intimidate him or you, she could have said something more along the lines of "Next person to post this crap is getting banned!" She didn't even remove this thread. Your faux butthurt can't be taken seriously.
Yes, intimidated into not posting anything again because people disagree with his drivel, flashy colors and big fonts, which he calls "Facts" and they're backed up by more bull. If you can't back up what you post, it is crap. Besides, I'm not going to let him post that kind of GARBAGE without getting challenged on it.
He's not unwelcome at all. But if he thinks he's going to be able to post crap that is WIDELY DISCREDITED TIME AND AGAIN without challenge, he, and you, have another thing coming. Every time another slice of the tinfoil brigade comes along they post the same crap the same way. Besides, he had no intention whatsoever of having a discussion, he was only here to posit that bulls hit. There's honestly no discussion to be had with someone that is that wrong.
Are you serious or are you trolling? Seriously man, if you're going to cry about me reacting with sarcasm and hysterical laughter, maybe, and I mean just maybe, you should post something that can be taken remotely seriously. Let me get this crystal clear straight: Immunizing nearly the entirety of the U.S. population had nothing to do with the literal eradication of Polio, Tetanus, and Smallpox? Are you serious? HAHAHAHAHA! Congratulations on just about the funniest paragraph I've read in years because if you actually believe what you wrote there, I've got news for you: I'm not the only one laughing at you. Ever been to Africa? I have. To a place where Typhoid is endemic and spent four months in sub saharan Africa. Guess who didn't catch Typhoid. I once had a guy who was infected with *ACTIVE* Hepatitis B spit blood in my face. I even tasted his blood. Guess who didn't get Hep B? I stepped on a nail that punctured my shoe a couple weeks ago. Guess who's immune to Tetanus? Heck, guess who hasn't ever even had to WORRY about getting Tetanus? This guy.
Nobody told him he can't post his drivel, but if the guy's going to post that, he's damn sure going to get challenged to it. Example: He talked long and proud about Guillain Barre syndrome, an affliction that affects one in a million people, and even then for the most part is easily taken care of. Every single CREDIBLE source goes directly against what the guy was saying. He's selling snake oil. Period. |
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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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quietprepr
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2495 |
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The title of this thread was to ask if we believed in mandatory vaccinations. Nearly all of us do not agree with mandatory anything. I think the title was a bit misleading. It should have been, "Do you believe in vaccinations of any kind?"
I believe everyone is entitled to post their opinion, but when disagreed with, sgg51 said "good luck with your phony mystical or mythological beliefs" Something to that affect anyway, I am not going to read back through all this to get the exact quote. That isnt someone open to real debate, that is a lecture and pretty condescending. Perhaps my sarcasm was a bit over the top, but I certainly do not want anyone who disagrees with me silenced.
Also, I have been to Africa and seen polio up close...it is horrifying in real life and I am so glad it was eradicated here before my kids were born.
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"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming
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Elver
Valued Member Joined: June 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7778 |
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Turbo,
Show me evidence to the contrary on these two items.
1)
90% of all disease deaths had disappeared prior to vaccines even being introduced.
This was due to better hygiene, sanitation, clean drinking water. Did you know that true herd immunity was also another reason? True herd immunity is gotten from people who have already gotten the disease and recovered. (Taken from an independent source with no ties to vaccinate or not to vaccinate.)
From 1911-1945 โthe death rate of diphtheria, measles and whooping cough dclined 95% among children , before the mass immunization program started in the United States.โ
These facts were cited in his power point from this source. His power point is absolutely full of sources.
Dublin L, Health progress, 1935-1945, Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, pg. 12, 1948
Reference: Dublin L, Health progress, 1935-1945, Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, pg. 12,
____________________________________________
2)
Diptheria deaths per 100,000:
1901 41,839
1906- 28,225
1911- 20,350
1916- 15,623
1921- 12,267
1926- 7,074
1931- 4,388
1936- 2,189
1941- 1,135 (vaccine introduced in the early 1940's)
1946- 467
1951- 125
1956- 45
1961- 22
1966- 15
1971-75 12
Reference: International Mortality Statistics by Michael Rowland Alderson Hardcover, 524 Pages, Published 1981 by Facts On File ISBN-13: 978-0-87196-514-ISBN, ISBN: 0-87196-514-3 In fact once you research this for yourself you will find that Polio, Diptheria, Pertussis, Tetanus, Measles, & the Influenza were all in serious decline prior to any vaccinations.-0
Turbo, I believe that your mind is so closed off to hearing other evidence that you wouldn't read it if it were handed to you. That's your option, but it would be better that you provide your own evidence to the contrary since you want to continue this discussion.
I have real immunity because I don't get the flu shot. I get the flu and get over it like most healthy people who don't get vaccinated do. When the flu shot doesn't even match the current years strain, as happens quite often, you're getting herd immunity from us! |
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MamaBear4
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 11 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 511 |
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I would love to see everyone's opinion of the shingles vaccine, please. Thank you in advance!
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Elver
Valued Member Joined: June 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7778 |
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I don't know much about the shingles vaccine because I haven't looked into it too much. I've heard that people have gotten the shingles from the vaccine. (Zostavax, manufactured by Merck is a live virus vaccine.) I've also read that people getting the vaccine have a higher incidence of shingles than people who don't get this vaccine. More studies need to prove or disprove this. I do know that getting shingles can cause permanent nerve damage in a very small percentage of <1%. (See Postherpetic Neuralgia) Your chances of getting this nerve damage rises with age up to approx. 3% after age 80.
Nobody on my side of the family has ever had shingles. My father-in-law had shingles which we believed was caused by a case of nerves. He was told that his pig heart valve was good for about 8 years. In his 8th year he got a case of shingles, but fully recovered.
The FDA approved this vaccine in 2006 and feels that it could reduce your chances of getting shingles by more than half and also reduce post-herpetic neuralgia by over 2/3rds. When you are talking about statistics, half and 2/3rds sound like large numbers, but I've pasted below Merck's brochure so you can look for yourself on page 9.
MRC-5 cells are in this vaccine. These cells come from aborted fetal cell tissue!
Apparently, .4% of unvaccinated people get postherpetic neuralgia while .14% of vaccinated people get this. So, this nerve damage is less than 1% either way.
Shingles usually isn't dangerous and the vaccine is pretty expensive.
Here is Merck's pamphlet. Look at the lower part of page 5 & page 6 where it talks about adverse side effects that occur with people who get the vaccine versus people who get a placebo.
Page 9 shows the incidence rates for vaccinated versus placebo. If my math is correct, 22 of 1,000 people who get the shingles vaccine will get shingles compared with 74 of 1,000 in people who don't get it. The difference isn't huge and >99% of the people recover without problems.
Why don't you research what is written about this vaccine and tell us your opinion?
Like any vaccine, I'm not blindly jumping on this one either. It hasn't been out that long and I'm sure many studies will follow. Not many people are getting this vaccine, so the data will be slow coming in. I'm not old enough for this vaccine yet so have time to look into this further.
The irony here is that most people would be willing take flu vaccines even though your chances of getting brain damange, kidney problems, or Guillian Barre as a result are pretty low. I'd be willing to bet that eventually lots of people would want this vaccine even though the chances of severe nerve damage is less than 1% for people under 60 and rise to only 3% for folks over 80.
People are willing to overlook the potential problems with flu vaccines, but would be willing to get the shingles vaccine to prevent a low incidence of shingles and very low incidence of nerve damage accompanied with it. Go figure! In either case, if you're one of the unlucky few, you'll be screaming from the rafters pro or con regarding vaccines.
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MamaBear4
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 11 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 511 |
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Thank you for your opinion Elver I really appreciate it! Would love to hear from others about their experience with this or people they know.
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Elver
Valued Member Joined: June 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7778 |
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One other thing, this shingles vaccine isn't cheap. Expect to pay around $205 to $220.
If you looked carefully at page 10 of the Merck brochure, it doesn't seem that this cost is worth the benefits since so few people ever get shingles in the first place. Merck is making a lot of money! Even those that do get the shingles, very few will end up with nerve damage.
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I've known a few people with shingles and it's very painful, and I know someone that has shingles at the moment and it's been about a year since it started. He's in a lot of pain all the time, and even the slightest touch on his back or arms makes him cry out. He was telling me that apparently shingles is the second leading pain related cause of suicide in men next to cancer.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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debbiencusa
Adviser Group Joined: April 25 2013 Location: nc Status: Offline Points: 2100 |
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i do not believe in mandatory but in the case of a virus so deadly it could wipe out society as we know it, i believe those who refuse the vaccine should be required to live separate from others. The new h7n9 is said to not respond well to vaccines which means that if a volunerable patient due to age, pre existing diseasse etc gets a lot of exposure through many unavoidable life situations like work, having to buy food etc they are way more likely to catch the virus. The unvaccinated can carry the disease and not get it also. That would potentially effect all the vulnerable folks in ways that are not even measureable. That seems very unfair to me, someone else chooses not to vaccinate and bc of that another person or loved family member dies due to exposure. Just as they had the TB sanitariums they should have unvacinated areas, no herd protection for those who do not want to take the vaccine, let them sip with other like minded folks, there are plenty of Dr.s and nurses who do not want to take the vaccine also, let them treat the unvacinated. This in my opinion portects everyone else, and truly puts to the test the depth of the beliefs against vaccination, without making those of us who must take the vaccine guinea pigs in the experiment of to vaccinate or not. If this seems harsh I apologize but coming from a family with many pre existing medical conditions which make vaccination a must, it seems very harsh to me that someone elses actions or lack there of could effect my families ability to survive. All I ask is to put their money where their mouth is, and mark the home so people know that unvaccinated live there and do not allow them to leave for any reason, or provide separate housing for the duration.
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God Bless
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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WHile not mandatory, if you decide to not get it and run around the world unprotected, you shouldn't get to come back.
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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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Okay Elver, let's ask our selves why that is, shall we?
Since you're the one who happily posited that it was herd immunity later in your post, I'll go with that.
So, everyone, or at the very least all kinds of people caught Whooping Cough, Diptheria, Measels, etc and got over it or *DIED!* Those that survived, went on to live with the immunity that they gained just by surviving. You're absolutely right.
The problem with your logic is that they had to SURVIVE THE ILLNESS! I got a shot as a child that rendered me 100% immune to having to worry about whether or not I'd survive. I've never had Whooping Cough, Measels, Diptheria, Typhus, Mumps, Rubella/Rubiola, HEP of any kind, etc not because I was never exposed to those agents, but because I was vaccinated against them. That alone is evidence enough to prove you 100% wrong.
How long ago did we all collectively have to absolutely worry about a Smallpox outbreak? Nowadays they don't even give the vaccination (Military aside because I got it) to kids because the illness has largely been eradicated THROUGH VACCINATION!
You're really going to try to say that modern medicine had nothing to do with people being able to live through diptheria? Really? Vaccinations allowed people to live without worrying about getting diptheria in the first place. I find it ironic that you posted DEATHS from Diptheria instead of CASES of Diptheria.
What you, and SGG or whatever his name was, are doing here is dropping the exact same logic bomb that antigun fanatics try to spew when they say we should be forcibly disarmed: That the U.S. has far higher gun deaths than any other country, and it's true! THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE GUNS! What they leave out is teh AGGRIVATED CRIME and MURDER rates actually go up in disarmed populations. The UK is an excellent example with their Aggrivated Crime rate that is nearly three times what it is in the United States.
Pot to kettle, pot to kettle, you are black. I have to provide sources and evidence time and again? Something like 99.9999999% of DOCTORS directly disagree with you. What part of that are you missing?
I don't even get the seasonal Flu in the FIRST PLACE because I got the shot.
While yes, sometimes they miss the strain that goes around the United States, you're still protected from all the other strains that are going around too, especially the really nasty ones. Each and every year there's something like six to ten strains of the flu zipping around and you catch *ONE* of them. Not all six to ten. Just one. Who is getting herd immunity from whom here?
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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Qld measles case sparks statewide alert
A STATE-WIDE measles alert has been issued in Queensland after a mine worker was diagnosed with the potentially deadly virus. Queensland Health says the central Queensland man probably caught the virus during a recent holiday in Asia and may have passed it on to colleagues. He had contact with fellow mine workers at the Moranbah mine camp while he was contagious from April 25 to May 6, acting senior director of the communicable diseases unit Dr Stephen Lambert says. He was in the dining room of the Grosvenor Village camp around April 29 and 30 between 6.30pm and 7.30pm (AEST). Queensland Health believes many of the mine workers he had contact with have returned to their homes around the state, potentially spreading the virus. Dr Lambert says anyone who thinks they might have been exposed to the virus should make sure they're protected against measles and seek medical advice if symptoms develop. Queensland Health is urging anyone born since 1966 who hasn't had two doses of the measles vaccine - or actually had the virus - to get the free vaccine from a GP. However, pregnant women shouldn't get the vaccine. "Queensland Health will continue to actively investigate this case and do whatever it can to prevent further transmission," Dr Lambert said in a statement on Wednesday. |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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Elver
Valued Member Joined: June 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7778 |
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This statement makes absoluely no sense at all. If you are getting your vaccinations, then why are you worried? You're fully protected! You have no reason to worry, RIGHT?
This article puts things into perspective regarding past pandemic "threats".
Let's all just take a big breath and relax about H7N9 until we even know that it will spread H2H. Right now there is no evidence that this is going to cause a pandemic.
Whatever the case, it will take about 6 weeks to produce a vaccine. You better worry about how to prevent getting the H7N9 in the first place. Research that!
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Guests
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Most flu and shingles vaccines have about a 60% efficacy. Not sure about Measles and Polio and other vaccines but most people must have a booster for these.
For people who choose to take vaccines know they are not totally going to protect but it is our choice to use them. Isolation is the best method but to single out a group is not practical. One must SIP if they want to avoid a pandemic. |
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Elver
Valued Member Joined: June 14 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7778 |
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60% sounds like a really high percentage, doesn't it?
Well you can read about your 60% on page 9 here on Table 5
In Merck's study they looked at the vaccinated versus the placebo groups.
Vaccinated subjects = 19,254 315 were infected or 1.636%.
Unvaccinated placebo = 19,247 642 were infected or 3.33%.
This is an overall vaccine efficacy of 51%! So you see, statistics sound HUGE, but we are talking about very low percentages to begin with. By vaccinating 19,254 people at a cost of $205 to $225 per shot Merck is getting a lot of money to help a small percentage of the population. A total of 327 people were saved from getting shingles out of 19,254 people or 1.6%.
Now look at page 10 for the statistics of nerve damage as a result. (Postherpetic Neuralgia)
In the greater or equal to 80 year old category, you will see that only 1/2 of 1% of this age group will get shingles, but 18.9% (of this 1/2 of 1%) will get the nerve damage.
Of the unvaccinated 80 years olds, 3.5% will get shingles, of which 25.5 % (of this 3.5%) will get nerve damage.
Why would you not ALSO be concerned with the insignificant, although very serious, side effects of a flu shot not get your attention? Things like Giullain Barre, Narcolepsy, Kidney disease, or even Alzheimer's?
That's the irony of it all.
If you haven't had chicken pox or immunization for it, I don't think you need to worry about getting the shot, but you should check with your doctor first.
Did you know that because of all the childhood immunizations for chicken pox that more people will get shingles? This is because the immunization put the chicken pox into people's systems.
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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i think what is happening in the UK is warning enough, you are fooling yourself if you think vaccine's
are not for the good of most of us , sure a few might suffer adverse effects, but thats the price we pay, as an aside do you not worry more about of antibiotic's given to live stock, and the rise of resistant strains of antibiotic bacteria, this is far more of a worry than a few people having adverse effects, i do however believe, those that do suffer adverse effects should be compensated |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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debbiencusa
Adviser Group Joined: April 25 2013 Location: nc Status: Offline Points: 2100 |
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yes flumom, you are correct it is BECAUSE we know that the vaccine is not 100% effective that we would fear the unvacinated. Even a mild case as they say you can get would kill some, then those little numbers become large ones.
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God Bless
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carbon20
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Labor's support for No Jab No Play campaign forces Liberal rethink
Books on display in the shop window of a nutrition and health shop in Bondi. NSW Labor Opposition leader John Robertson has swung behind the ``No Jab, No Play'' campaign and will introduce legislation into the parliament on Tuesday that will allow pre-schools and childcare centres to ban unvaccinated children. Mr Robertson's move this week has forced a red-faced Health Minister Jillian Skinner to play catch-up, saying the O'Farrell government would ``consider'' strengthening laws to allow child care centres to ban unvaccinated children. The Sunday Telegraph and The Daily Telegraph launched a campaign two weeks ago to wipe out potentially fatal diseases that can be stopped by vaccination and Mr Robertson agreed it was time to act. ``This shouldn't be about the alternative wishes of parents who choose to ignore the science. It has to be about the health of our children. That is why I am introducing this important legislation,'' he said. A recent report revealed that almost 80,000 children are unvaccinated with up to nine areas showing immunisation rates below 85 per cent and risking outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases. Mr Robertson said some Third World countries had higher immunisation rates than Vaucluse. ``It is astounding that places like Iran and Sudan have higher rates of childhood vaccination than parts of Sydney,'' he said. The vast majority of unimmunised children are not the children of vaccine refusers, but rather their parents have forgotten to keep up to date with the childhood immunisation schedule and the bill aims to target those, he said. Last week federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said an Abbott-led government would support childcare centres' right to turn away children who are not immunised and it would also review benefit payments to vaccine refusers. Ms Skinner said ntsGwould
seek advice ntsGfrom her departmentnte about the issuente: ``I tasked
the ministry to provide detailed analysis of the options, which may
include amendments to the Public Health Act.'' Danielle Weymark contracted meningococcal disease at 14 months and lost her arm, all her fingers, all her toes bar one which has been stitched onto her hand for a pencil grip. She is 19 now and training for her dream- the paralympics in equestrian. No wonder parents get confused BONDI nutritionist Debbie Orme has defended her shopfront promotion of an ``epidemic'' in childhood autism, claiming she is not against vaccination. With a variety of books highlighting now discredited links between vaccination and autism in her store, Ms Orme said her concern is for safe immunisation. Bondi was identified in a recent report where rates of vaccination are declining. From her store Ms Orme loans customers a DVD titled Finding The Words, which claims to show children who developed regressive autism after they were administered vaccinations, who then recovered from their autism after undergoing a program of ``detoxification, immune support and targeted education therapies''. But Westmead Children's Hospital paediatrician David Isaacs said the DVD was ``very weak scientifically'' and featured ``holistic pediatricians'' who are ``just a bit nutty''. Ms Orme claimed the rise in autism in our society is due to increased toxicity and decreased nutritional status: ``I believe ntsGthat one of the contributing factors,nte a major contributing factor, is toxicity and one of the sources of toxicity can be vaccinations.'' New vaccine to rein in a killer A NEW vaccine for the deadliest strain of meningococcal disease should be available in Australia by the end of the year. For the past decade the only vaccine available has been for the group c strain, but the group `b' strain, which leads to aggressive blood poisoning, was responsible for 83 per cent of the 222 cases of meningococcal disease last year according to the Meningococcal Reference Laboratory. Immunology expert Professor Robert Booy said although the group `c' vaccine had greatly reduced the incidence of the disease, group `b' remained a significant problem. Danielle Weymark contracted meningococcal disease at 14 months, her tiny body ravaged by the hallmark purple spots that mark blood poisoning. She lost her left arm below the elbow, her right hand, all of her toes bar one and most of her fingers. ``She was very lucky to survive,'' her mother Leanne said. She watched her daughter endure 80 operations including skin grafts to her legs and arms. ``Her legs stopped growing at age eight so she had to have surgery to put rods in.'' The plucky teenager has not let disability get in her way and has set her sights on becoming a Paralympian in her chosen field of dressage. ``It happened at such a young age so I don't know any different,'' Danielle, 19, said. She urged parents to get their kids vaccinated when the new vaccine comes in. ``Back then (in 2003) `c' was more deadly and we developed a vaccine for that and the overall meningococcal rate has been halved since,'' Professor Booy said. In 2000 there were 628 cases and 222 in 2012, mostly caused by group b. The group b vaccine has been approved in Europe and is awaiting approval by the TGA in Australia. Anger as AVN sells fake cure ANTI-VACCINATION group the AVN is engulfed in a fresh controversy with the Therapeutic Goods Administration by promoting a cancer cure that medical experts say is dangerous. The product black salve, which contains highly corrosive poisons that can burn layers of skin and leave scarring, was advertised on the Australian Vaccination Network website as an alternative cancer treatment. The ad proclaimed black salve as a ``safe, effective, natural remedy ... used for over 2000 years to treat skin cancers and other cancerous conditions, leading to a total remission of the disease''. But TGA said: ``Consumers would be entitled to expect that `black salve' will cure them of cancer when, in fact, there is no credible, reliable clinical or scientific evidence to demonstrate that the product is effective in the treatment of any cancer.'' Terry Slevin, chairman of the Skin Cancer Committee for
the Cancer Council of Australia. said the product didn't work and it was
illegal to sell the product because it is dangerous. |
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carbon20
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Despite the proven effectiveness of vaccinations in protecting children from life-threatening diseases, a new survey reveals some parents are not yet convinced. Luke Philben was playing happily on the floor when his mother, Sam Jackson, looked across and saw something was not right. Six-month-old Luke had a strange smile on his face, was holding his arm out at an angle and his body was twitching. Terrified, Jackson began carrying Luke to the car to drive him to hospital, but by the time she reached the driveway he was having such violent fits he was frothing at the mouth. She called paramedics, who arrived just as Luke was turning blue. ''I was screaming. I thought he was dead. It was really, very traumatic,'' she says. At the hospital, doctors checked Luke over and sent him home. They told Jackson seizures related to fever were common in young children and Luke's high temperature may have been due to his routine immunisations the day before. Pupils at Scotch College lining up for Salk vaccine injections in 1956. But 10 days later, Luke had another seizure and was admitted to hospital, where he had a third seizure that was so severe he had to be resuscitated. Brain scans came back clear, and Luke was prescribed drugs for epilepsy. But the seizures kept coming in the months afterwards. Jackson and her partner, Tom Philben, were convinced Luke's immunisations were to blame. As it turned out they were wrong. But the fears that repeatedly drove Jackson to the internet to scour the sites of anti-vaccination groups add them to the growing number of parents around Australia whose trust in the power of vaccination to keep their children safe is declining. Ava Donovan (far left), 9, and her friend Luke Philben, 7, have a form of epilepsy called Dravet syndrome, which would have revealed itself with or without vaccination. Photo: Wayne Taylor A new Australian survey confirms that many parents have serious concerns about the safety of vaccines given to children. Doctors worry that if these fears are not addressed they may change behaviour, causing parents to delay or withhold vaccines and risk their children being struck by diseases such as measles and whooping cough. In the past, parents have vaccinated their children after seeing the damage such diseases can cause. But as epidemics become fewer, there are heightened fears about the possible side effects of vaccines. Indeed, doctors are concerned we may be seeing an emerging crisis of confidence in the benefits of childhood vaccination. Associate Professor Julie Leask, of the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance, based at the University of Sydney, was an adviser on>the survey - the first to measure attitudes to vaccination in Australia. Commissioned to coincide with the release of a television documentary, Jabbed, on vaccinations, the survey canvassed the views of 1300 Australians, including 400 parents. While childhood vaccination rates for two-year-olds remain high at 92 per cent, the survey found that 53 per cent of parents had general concerns about vaccinating their children. (Of these, 45 per cent vaccinated anyway, while 8 per cent either delayed or withheld vaccines.) Vaccines are medicines that prevent people from acquiring serious infectious diseases. They work by stimulating the immune system to produce antibodies to fight a particular infection, helping it to quickly detect and destroy the infection when it becomes a threat. Leask was surprised the survey showed that one in four parents was worried about a particular aspect of vaccination. Chief among those worries were concerns about an increasing number of vaccines and inadequate safety testing. ''It taps into this idea of the infant as being young and vulnerable and needing our protection, and vaccines being these mysterious things that go into a healthy baby to protect them against diseases we may not have ever seen,'' she says. Parents also worried that their child's immune system could be ''overloaded'', a fear that scientists are keen to dispel, pointing out that the immune system responds independently to each infection, so cannot be overloaded or damaged by giving children a range of vaccines. They say serious side effects from vaccines are extremely rare, and there is strict safety testing Some fears about vaccines are misplaced and can cause widespread harm and anxiety. For example, measles epidemics continue to break out across Britain more that a decade after disgraced doctor Andrew Wakefield published a study in The Lancet claiming to show a link between the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine and autism. Wakefield's research was later declared fraudulent and unethical and his theory was widely debunked, but cases of measles have since skyrocketed after vaccine rates plummeted. In 2006, a 13-year-old boy became the first person in more than a decade to die of the disease in Britain. But damage can also be caused by what turn out to be problem vaccines, such as CSL's Fluvax, which was designed to protect against seasonal and swine flu. In 2010, it caused 410 adverse reactions in Australian children under five, including 67 who had febrile convulsions, before health authorities moved to ban it for that age group. Writing in the Medical Journal of Australia last month, public health physician Paul Effler and epidemiologist Heath Kelly said global fears of a swine flu pandemic led to ''accelerated approval" of Fluvax despite a lack of robust evidence of its safety in children. They say stricter protocols and improved surveillance are needed after vaccines are approved in order to maintain public trust ''and ensure the long-term success of paediatric influenza vaccination programs''. For the past 15 years at the Royal Children's Hospital, many parents with doubts about vaccination have met with immunisation paediatrician Jenny Royle. Often they are stunned to hear that some childhood vaccines protected against diseases for which there is no cure, such as whooping cough. (Parents might live around the corner from a hospital and think that if their baby caught whooping cough, doctors would be able to fix it.) ''We give supportive treatment, so you give babies fluids in drips and you put them in intensive care and give them oxygen when they turn blue, but there is no specific treatment to cure whooping cough,'' Royle says. ''It's a horrendous infection and even in modern Melbourne we are terribly limited in the impact we can make.'' Australia is in the grip of a whooping cough epidemic, with 10,134 cases reported in children under 15 last year. Two infants died, both aged under eight weeks, when they were too young to be vaccinated. As with whooping cough, doctors are restricted in what they can do when meningitis takes hold. There is a treatment, but it does not necessarily guarantee a good outcome. ''You can be rushed to hospital and an hour later they have in the fridge the exact antibiotic used to treat it, but you can already be deaf and brain injured,'' Royle says. ''Because the immune system is so underdeveloped against the meningitis bacteria at a young age, it gets in the body and multiplies and the treatment is not given in time because the disease doesn't declare itself early enough.'' Hesitant parents need their questions answered quickly, Royle says, because the worst thing that could happen is for their children to get a disease while they are still trying to work out whether to administer the vaccine that prevents it. Royle says her first task with hesitant immunisers is to work out the source of their anxiety. Had they heard about a worrying side effect? If so she provides information about how commonly it occurred with a particular vaccine. She points out that all medicines, even aspirin, have side effects. ''I'm not here hiding things from people. I'm very open about the range of side effects and how often they occur. I guess by talking about them you can then weigh up the chance of them happening, and how significant that would be, versus the chance of getting the disease and how significant that would be. It helps you in your risk/benefit discussions with people.'' Each year, the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance compiles a report of all adverse events reported in Australia following immunisation, but not necessarily caused by it. In 2011, the most current year for which data is available, there were 1121 such events in children under seven, including 531 in which there was a reaction at the injection site and 301 cases of fever. More seriously, there were 44 cases of convulsions and 38 hypotonic-hyporesponsive episodes in which babies can become floppy and unresponsive. The episodes are frightening for parents but babies usually recover quickly with no long-term consequences. Between 2002 and 2011 nine deaths following vaccination in children under seven were reported to Australia's drug regulator, the Therapeutic Goods Administration. After investigation, links to vaccination were ruled out in seven cases. In two cases, authorities were unable to confirm or exclude any contribution by the vaccine. In Queensland, a two-year-old girl died in her cot the day after having a Fluvax shot in 2010, and a coroner was unable to determine the cause of her death. Before licensing a new vaccine for use in Australia, the TGA requires manufacturers to provide detailed data supporting its safety and effectiveness. The TGA continues to monitor vaccines for safety once they are approved, with all adverse events entered into a database and analysed regularly by medical officers in an effort to detect any problems. Some side effects are expected with particular vaccines - for example, up to three out of 100 children can develop diarrhoea or vomiting in the week after receiving the vaccine against rotavirus, a severe form of gastroenteritis. TGA officers are looking for anything unexpected, such as in the case of Fluvax, which was triggering febrile convulsions in one in 100 children - 10 times the expected rate. In 2011-12 more than 800,000 children were fully immunised in Australia and authorities say it is vital to consider adverse events in the context of thousands of diseases being prevented, some of them potentially fatal. Fears about vaccines can stem from information overload, rather than ignorance. Research in the US and Britain has found that the more educated parents are, the more likely they are to oppose vaccination. Leask says this group is more inclined to question medical intervention in general. ''As part of their practice of trying to be 'good parents', they will feel it's important to research what they do with regard to their children's health โฆ they might not just go ahead with immunisation without a lot of questioning. If their friends are not vaccinating they may see it as more normal to question it and select out vaccines, maybe even demand a special schedule for their child,'' she says. The Australian survey of attitudes showed the internet was the main source of information for 50 per cent of people who oppose vaccination, while supporters overwhelmingly obtain information from a family doctor. Online searches would inevitably turn up anti-vaccination websites, Leask says, but do not create doubt where none had previously existed. ''It's an attempt to rationalise an emerging position you have on vaccination by going online and finding things that suit your theory and cherry-picking them,'' she says. ''People who are against vaccination will go and look for things that support that view, and they'll find them online much more than with conventional health professionals.'' For Luke Philben's family, however, the opposite was true. As Sam Jackson scoured the internet in her search for an explanation, she came across an article by a woman whose son had Dravet syndrome - a rare and severe form of epilepsy. It was, she said, ''like looking in the mirror''. A gene test confirmed the diagnosis. Soon after, Jackson became aware of the work of Melbourne neurologist Ingrid Scheffer, who had studied cases of children who developed severe seizures soon after vaccination. Out of 14 such cases, Professor Scheffer found that 11 patients had gene mutations that cause Dravet syndrome, which usually emerges around six months of age and is associated with intellectual disability. That meant many of the children with suspected vaccine reactions were destined to develop the devastating disorder anyway. At most the vaccine caused a fever that triggered the first seizure, just as a cold or toothache might. Luke has a friend, Ava Donovan, 9, who also has Dravet syndrome. Her first seizure occurred after a virus when she was five months old - not after her shots. Leask says despite a perception that anti-vaccination groups are fuelling doubts about vaccines through the internet, there are bigger forces at play. Often there is an assumption that if such groups did not exist, no one would have any concerns. But wider changes in society are having an influence, including reduced exposure to the diseases that vaccines protect against. A shift from the days of doctor knows best towards a model of care in which patients make informed decisions about their treatment is also part of the picture, along with the rise of alternative therapies. ''All of these broader changes may be influencing shifts in support for vaccination,'' Leask says. Jackson spent six months blaming immunisation for Luke's seizures, and herself for taking him to have his shots. Now she knows his first seizure would have emerged with or without the vaccine. She has chosen not to immunise him further because the jabs are a trigger for him to have a seizure, just like jumping on a trampoline or going outside on a hot day. But Luke's family relies on other parents immunising their children, because a fever from a disease like measles could threaten his life. Vaccines are given to the vast majority of children, and diseases can emerge at certain ages. Leask says that by chance alone, children can develop a disease or syndrome of unknown origin soon after having their shots. ''People want to know what's causing it and they blame the vaccine,'' she says. Jabbed: Love, Fear and Vaccines will screen on Sunday, May 26 at 8.30pm on SBS. Poll: Should all children be vaccinated?
Total votes: 1319. Poll closes in 10 hours. Disclaimer: These polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate. |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
Marcus Aurelius |
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Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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Measles epidemic: 60,000 have MMR jab in Swansea and Powys
MMR drop-in clinics finish this weekend, but jabs will be available from GPs
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Related StoriesOver 60,000 measles vaccinations have now been given which will help to reduce the length and severity of the outbreak in Swansea and Powys, says Public Health Wales. However, another 33,000 youngsters between 10 and 18 have still not had the jab, say officials. The number of cases in the outbreak has now reached 1,136 since November 2012, up 10 cases in the last few days. There were only 19 measles cases in Wales in the whole of 2011. "We are delighted to see that thanks to the efforts of health board staff and the efforts of parents, the number vaccinated with MMR has now passed 60,000," said health protection director Dr Marion Lyons from Public Health Wales (PHW). Final drop-in clinics
Continue reading the main story โStart QuoteDr Marion Lyons Public Health Wales "This will undoubtedly have helped to reduce the length and severity of the current outbreak - but we remain concerned for the 33,000 children aged 10 to 18 who remain unvaccinated. "There will always be the possibility of measles outbreaks elsewhere in Wales until we reduce the numbers of unvaccinated people." In all, almost 61,500 non-routine vaccinations have been given since 1 March. This includes 17,440 people aged 10 to 18 who are said to be the group hardest hit by the measles outbreak centred on the Swansea area. This week sees the final opportunities for people to be vaccinated at drop-in clinics and in school sessions, although jabs will still be available through GP surgeries. There will be a final drop-in session at the Princess of Wales Hospital, Bridgend on Thursday from 18:00 to 21:00 BST. In Powys, two drop-in sessions will be held at the outpatients' departments of Brecon Hospital and Newtown Hospital on Saturday between 10:30 to 14:30 BST. Related Stories
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.๐
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