Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant |
why are they all covering it up? |
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chris
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Posted: June 01 2013 at 10:24am |
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well, I can say this very bluntly. Why does almost every country try to cover up cases of "new" diseases?
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sms
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money
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Loribearme
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How about the number of people that go to their doctor but they never get tested for what they have?
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Elver
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How about the people who almost never go to the doctor because they've had lots of cold or flu in the past and have always gotten over it?
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CStackDrPH
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Money and politics. I worked with CDC when the HIV pandemic first exploded in the world (spread from Haitians to American gay men). The prevailing thought at the time (under Pres. Reagan's administration) was this was a "gay man's problem" and wasn't taken very seriously. I was screaming that it was likely a bloodborne pathogen and would follow transmission patterns of Hepatitis B = drug users, heterosexual and homosexual sex transmission, etc. I even predicted the awful concept of "blood as a weapon" and of infected individuals deliberately trying to spread the disease through promiscuous sex. My rants were met with glazed looks and stony silence. Had we followed good prevention with what we should have known in the beginning, many thousands of lives would have been saved. When it comes to public health, never overestimate the brilliance of our elected leaders (nor their unelected counterparts in totalitarian countries). They are all worried about the negative PR, possible uprisings and economic impacts to tourism, industries etc. Pride also figures into it....look at how the delayed reaction of the Saudis kept the world in the dark about MERS. |
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CRS, DrPH
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April Gardner
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I do not believe there is a cover-up. I believe that those who are studying the viruses do not know what to do because it is so volatile. The real issue is that you have to protect yourself and not depend on others for preventative measures. There are just too many people and too many issues. You have to think about yourself and those you care about and act responsively. Perhaps, you should watch the choices made by those who have more knowledge and then base your decision-making on their behaviors as pragmatic models. Examples: Stay away from buffets and eat at home. Wear a mask in a plane, train, and/or bus. Leave your shoes outside of your home. |
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April Gardner
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Typo in my prior post...The flu died out after 4 months in the referenced "Documentary". Sorry... |
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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A cover-up and suppressing information are fairly similar. I would
say China has covered-up new cases i.e. no new h7 cases since April 21st
and we were seeing 4-5 new new cases per day up until the abrupt end in
reporting. Up until that point, Chinese officials themselves
estimated/announced there were an additional 90 - 120 that they had not
yet identified, and then of course they arrested a dozen of their
citizens for claiming a cover-up. Chinese officials then stated they
would stop releasing daily new cases and would do it weekly, which they
never did, hence suppressing information. They simply stopped releasing
information across the board with new cases and deaths. We also never
heard about the missing 38 hospitalized out of the 132 total cases, in
addition to never learning about their symptoms, treatments, etc.... and then if we
factor in that they waited 30 days to report the first h7n9 cases, along
with their cover-up of the original SARS outbreak in 2003, which is
widely known, well, I can assure you that communist China is withholding
information. In a very short period of time, China experienced
economic losses of the outbreak to the tune of 6.5 billion.
So yes, China is undoubtedly covering-up/suppressing information. Still Wondering whatever happened to the 38 patients still hospitalized. |
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KiwiMum
Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29640 |
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Albert do you think, therefore, that there are now hundreds of cases of H7N9 in China?
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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Yes
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I agree - it didn't stop spreading the day China stopped reporting.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Kyle
Adviser Group Joined: May 29 2013 Location: Colorado, USA Status: Offline Points: 5800 |
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I feel like if there were hundreds of cases unreported it would have spread to a country that would have reported to the WHO by now. However I could be wrong.
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CStackDrPH
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I'm also in agreement about the Chinese covering things up.
When news of massive waterfowl and swine mortalities hit the news, my heart skipped a beat - this was, I was (and am) convinced, a signal event of a significant influenza reassortment: However, the Chinese dissembled and blamed the swine mortalities upon an unrelated virus and polluted water etc. Typical communist BS. Don't forget, the populace are quite afraid of retaliation by the communist party, so I am sure that many cases likely died in their homes rather than risk coming to the attention of the authorities. No one has discussed this yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was mentioned on the Chinese underground web sites.
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CRS, DrPH
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Rors
Adviser Group Joined: May 12 2013 Location: Lebanon Status: Offline Points: 465 |
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China definitely covered up, but if it is still rampant as we're fearing, shouldn't it have crossed the borders by now?
it could also still be circulating but to a lesser extent. Next fall season will tell us |
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CStackDrPH
Valued Member Joined: April 21 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2308 |
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Not rampant (yet), but more prevalent among the Chinese. As you know, Rors, vruses don't "disappear," they lay fallow in a reservoir population. The move by the Chinese government (closing down live-bird "wet markets") seems to have slowed down the animal-to-human transmission, but the virus is likely disseminated in both domestic and wild fowl. The Chinese poultry industry lost $billions due to the bad PR, and as with the old melamine/milk scandal, I think they had to scramble and "put a lid on it." We have no idea what may be happening over there. Active cases might be sequestered from WHO for all we know. One thing is for certain = this is likely to be more problematic than SARS was, since the virus disseminates into an avian reservoir.
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CRS, DrPH
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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just think the loss of "FACE" for the Chinese , the loss of confidence in goods and food, also who
would want the stigma that goes with a PANDEMIC, the loss to stock markets could ruin a country, better you keep as quiet as you can and hope it breaks out in someone elses backyard , so they get blamed....... |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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KiwiMum
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There are situations that could arise in life where I think it's a good idea to keep the populace in the dark. An example would be a giant asteroid on a collision course with earth. If there is nothing that can be done then why make the last few months on earth hell for everyone?
However, I'm not sure that a pandemic flu with a 25% mortality qualifies. I guess that if you know it's lethal, and that you have no where near enough medical supplies/beds/doctors to even make a dent in the number of cases you are expecting, and you also know that basic services will cease once enough people fail to report to work then are you better to keep it quiet for as long as possible and delay the inevitable panic that will follow such an announcement? Perhaps you would keep quiet in order to ensure you and yours got the first pick of supplies? I wonder if there are chinese officials out there prepping like mad and moving their families out to their holiday homes for a long term stay?
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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Well, if it was a giant asteroid whirling toward earth, we would survive that as well. No prob. |
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CStackDrPH
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Personally, I'd want to know about it so I could prepare. Death doesn't scare me. This is quite interesting.... BEIJING (AP) — A large fire broke out at a poultry farm and processing
plant in northeastern China early Monday, charring much of the facility,
trapping workers inside large concrete buildings and killing at least
55 people, reports and officials said. ...I think we are witnessing incredible stress upon this huge nation's food supply chain! With the traditional wet-market retail outlets now completely closed down, the Chinese must be running their few meat processing plants at break-neck pace! That's why stuff like this happens... We can now see the logic of their purchase of Smithfield in the USA = access to food processing engineering. I consult in that area, I should book a trip over to Shanghai! My wife would slap me!!
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CRS, DrPH
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April Gardner
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We were informed by W.H.O. that MERS is, "...a threat to the entire world." That does not sound like a cover-up to me. As with anything else that is a probable threat, the masses of people do not pay attention and then claim in the end it was a "cover-up". How many people do you know heard the W.H.O. statement and went to the pharmacy and purchased basic masks? Probably few if any. There is a big difference between hearing and listening. I believe that cover-ups usually evolve as a an individual's excuse for not taking personal responsibility...like the people who lost their homes in the recent hurricane and blamed the "gov't" for them not having flood insurance. Regarding devastation from a pandemic, the population of Philadelphia is the same now as in 1918. That can be confirmed. The cities of 1918 mirror those of developing nations. ie. Industrial Revolution. As with anything else, we have been warned. Shop off hours, wear a mask at the movies and in public transportation. Better to appear a "fool" to the masses in public than one in a coffin. I will admit this, I do not like giving my birthdate to purchase over the counter cold/flu medicine.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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Good posts April Gardner, and glad to have you here. You should register sometime on the forum, although not necessary whatsoever.
Welcome to you as well Chris. Again - Good posts. |
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Turboguy
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Personally, I'd prefer not to know what happened to them in a country that has euthanasia trucks and people flush babies down the toilet where they get stuck in the pipes and that's a *COMMON* occurrence.
I honestly don't want to know.
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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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I dunno, re-read that news report with a raised eyebrow.
Exactly why would a chicken farm/processing plant mysteriously burn down with all hands aboard in the midst of a potential pandemic that the Chinese government is trying to cover up?
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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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debbiencusa
Adviser Group Joined: April 25 2013 Location: nc Status: Offline Points: 2100 |
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I believe the point is the farm was more then likely razed to try to control the influenza the authorities are calling it a accident in order to avoid panic.
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God Bless
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JorgeFoto
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I agree as it seems so random that this would happen now with all that is going on. I believe the death count is over a hundred people.
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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong."
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Turboguy
Admin Group Joined: October 27 2007 Status: Offline Points: 6079 |
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Hammer, meet nail.
Stomps on floor.
My bet is that the people "killed" there were either already dead or were locked in and the place set ablaze.
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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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debbiencusa
Adviser Group Joined: April 25 2013 Location: nc Status: Offline Points: 2100 |
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LOL great work
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God Bless
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Pixie
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Old article of Niman If it's true the burning of this farm is there MO
Answer To Containing H5N1 & Recombinants - "Make Villages Disappear!" Three Villages Razed In Qinghai After H5N1 Bird Flu Riots? By Dr. Henry L. Niman, PhD 8-3-5
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carbon20
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funny how we all seemed to have the same idea about the "Chicken plant"
my ears certainly pricked up, did'nt say anything, thought i was being a bit "paranoid", maybe not eh??............. April Gardner...spot on!! |
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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KiwiMum
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April, why do you have to give your date of birth for over the counter meds?
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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CStackDrPH
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I don't believe in a major conspiracy with the chicken plant fire, considering that it could derail the multi-billion dollar acquisition of Smithfield Farms in the USA.
I consult on the design of plants such as that, and my clients have included the largest poultry processors in the USA and Europe. Chinese tend to chain doors shut to prevent theft of product, machinery, tools etc. If they had an ammonia leak, their ammonia refrigeration system blew open. Ammonia gas is flammable, and I'm willing to bet that the plant used substandard materials of construction (wood, tar paper etc.) so it burned like a lamp. A plant run too hard....lots of chickens need to be killed, processed and eaten. I can't imagine what the populace is going through, they hate processed meats & much prefer to buy the live bird. We have live-bird "wet markets" in Chicago, they are quite disgusting, but very popular with Asian, African and Caribbean customers. |
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CRS, DrPH
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Pixie
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119 dead in Chinese poultry plant fire
< allowtransparency="true" border="0" scrolling="no" ="http://plat.twitter.com/widgets/tweet_.1368146021.#_=1370313857073&count=horizontal&count=http%3A%2F%2Farabnews.com%2Fnews%2F453907&id=twitter-widget-0&lang=en&original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Farabnews.com%2Fnews%2F453907&size=m&text=119%20dead%20in%20Chinese%20poultry%20plant%20fire%20%7C%20ArabNews%3A&=http%3A%2F%2Farabnews.com%2Fnews%2F453907%23.Ua1Uf-XPahc.twitter&via=Arab_News" ="twitter-share- twitter-count-horizontal" title="Twitter Tweet " -twttr-rendered="true" style="border-width: 0px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; width: 110px; height: 20px;"> < border="0" ="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" scrolling="no" ="0" ="0" width="100%" id="I0_1370313856314" name="I0_1370313856314" ="https://apis.google.com/_/+1/fast?bsv&size=medium&hl=en-US&origin=http%3A%2F%2Farabnews.com&=http%3A%2F%2Farabnews.com%2Fnews%2F453907&g=3p&ic=1&jsh=m%3B%2F_%2Fscs%2Fapps-static%2F_%2Fjs%2Fk%3Doz.gapi.en.hgKKOofQjvI.O%2Fm%3D__features__%2Fam%3DEQ%2Frt%3Dj%2Fd%3D1%2Frs%3DAItRSTOeNwU4i5ApX9gPGjnZ0AzovKWmWw#_methods=onPlusOne%2C_ready%2C_%2C_%2C_resizeMe%2C_renderstart%2Concircled&id=I0_1370313856314&parent=http%3A%2F%2Farabnews.com&rpctoken=37229745" allowtransparency="true" -gapiattached="true" title="+1" style="border-width: 0px; border-style: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; : static; top: 0px; width: 90px; left: 0px; visibility: ; height: 20px;"> THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Tuesday 4 June 2013 Last Update 3 June 2013 11:14 pm BEIJING: Fire raged through a poultry plant in northeastern China yesterday, trapping workers inside a cluttered slaughterhouse and killing at least 119 people, reports and officials said. “When I finally ran out and looked back at the plant, I saw high flames,” Wang, 44, was quoted as saying. Xinhua said she and three other workers were sent to a hospital in the nearby provincial capital of Changchun. It quoted an unidentified worker as saying the fire engulfed the building in three minutes, leaving too little time for many to flee. |
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debbiencusa
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The USA does not like to tell the whole story either, this is one example
drug resistant microbes:
MRSA, Acinetobacter baumannii, C. Difficile, VRE, etc. "Irresponsible medicine" Early this year (2006) an outbreak of MDR Acinetobacter baumannii swept over Arizona, 236 cases in just two months. It was reported by the state disease monitoring systems, but ignored on the national level. Now dubbed "Supergerms", they spread without warning and seemingly without official notices since they are infections instead of diseases. The government is taking advantage of this technicality. An ICU nurse at Bethesda Naval in Washington DC leaves work feeling under the weather. Within 24 hours she is in a community hospital, intubated, with Acinetobacter baumannii. It was determined that the bacteria were acquired from a patient at work. She succumbed to the infection quickly and with no fan fare. The story went silent. At Brook Army Medical Center in Texas a soldier fights for his life, as his combat wounds are made worse by infections the doctors can't seem to handle. The only reason his story is known is that his civilian girl friend speaks up for him. This outbreak that is spreading nation wide is largely due to the war in Iraq, and because of a legal technicality in reporting, the military and CDC will not discuss it publicly. More people come forward, bit by bit, telling stories of how the hospital played down their infection. The one person who could have done something about it, "Rep. Dennis Moore" has walked away from the issue deciding it wasn't worth getting into even after what he had seen on a visit to Walter Reed. This silent killer is continuing to spread, and to an indifferent country until it's YOUR turn. These bacteria will grow out of control in the near future as it spreads through neglect. Every VAMC in this country that had a soldier from Iraq in it is contaminated with MDR AB, as simple as a doorknob or privacy curtain to pass it on. Doctors often work at VA hospitals and community hospitals also. As long as it doesn't have to be reported it will not be. You're on your own America, until you say enough is enough. Focus On Acinetobacter Surveillance Comments posted March 4th 2006 By September 2004 the Department of Defense had collected 934 positive Acinetobacter baumannii cultures from 432 persons. This reported from the Navy Environmental Health Center in Bethesda. On September 21st, 2004 the Armed Forces Epidemiology Board met. They talked about Acinetobacter baumannii with 350 colonized soldiers as well as 200 infections. Yet, the CDC / DOD only announced 102 infection cases in the November 19th, 2004 MWMR report: 85 of the cases were OIF/OEF Landstuhl Regional Medical Center 33 Walter Reed Army Medical Center 45 U.S. Navy hospital ship Comfort 11 National Naval Medical Center 8 Brooke Army Medical Center 5 By August 2005 Forbes reported that at least 280 cases of infection had been reported. The DOD stodgily stood by public statements of 112 infections. The argument from CHPPM / MEDCOM is that colonized soldiers are a different story from infected soldiers. A colonized soldier however is still a carrier. CHPPM is also trying to say since this is just an infection they don't have to report it like infectious disease. They are not cooperating to provide any updated statistics on it because of a directive at MEDCOM stating they do not want to expose military vulnerabilities publicly. So its going to take a Congressional Inquiry to CHPPM in order to get a true idea of just how many cases of Acinetobacter baumannii there are in the military. That and how many are carriers. Spreading this infection from one hospital to another in America. Here is one example: A soldier dies in VA care at the James A. Haley Medical Center in Tampa Florida, in December 2004. He had extensive surgery in Iraq and was medivac'd to Landstuhl, Germany, Bethesda MD, and finally JHMC. This was head, chest, and abdomen trauma. After his death it was determined that he had tested positive twice for the Acinetobacter, which would have changed the clinical outcome if they had treated for it. (Page 22 of IG report) What about the 7 cases at Tripler Army Medical Center in Hawaii? Why were Chief Warrant Officer 3 Claude Boushey Sr.'s case and others not discussed? That was July 2004. In other cases, family members cannot get the medical records of their deceased soldiers. Many have died from non-combat injuries that the Pentagon is unwilling to disclose information about even to the parents. These stall tactics keep anyone but the military from knowing how many died of complications that the Acinetobacter baumannii contributed too. More than likely OIF troops walking into any Veteran Affairs Medical Center are possible colonized cases that contaminate that facility. This is a national threat to public health safety that the Department of Defense has taken a very lax position on. What the public doesn't know wont hurt them, which is certainly not true with a drug resistant bacteria that can be passed with as little as a handshake. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Superbug hits Canadian soldiers injured in suicide bombing Thu, 23 Feb 2006 Master Cpl. Paul Franklin of Halifax lost a leg, Cpl. Jeffrey Bailey from Edmonton had devastating head injuries, and Pte. William Salikin of Grand Forks, B.C., also suffered a head injury. The three soldiers were first taken to a U.S. military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. When they left a week later, all three men were infected with drug-resistant bacteria. Medical specialists aren't certain whether most infections started in the battlefield or the hospital. "It's thought that they may have gotten it from going through the hospital in Landstuhl," said Lt.-Col. Henry Flaman, a Canadian military doctor in Edmonton. Acinetobacter baumannii has become one of the most common sources of infections among American troops wounded in Iraq. The bacteria are found in soil and water in Iraq. When the microbes enter traumatic wounds in the battlefield, the superbug can cause serious damage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Iraq Infection Forbes Magazine - August 2nd 2005 NEW YORK - Military doctors are fighting to contain an outbreak of a potentially deadly drug-resistant bacteria that apparently originated in the Iraqi soil. So far at least 280 people, mostly soldiers returning from the battlefield, have been infected, a number of whom contracted the illness while in U.S. military hospitals. Most of the victims are relatively young troops who were injured by the land mines, mortars and suicide bombs that have permeated the Iraq conflict. No active-duty soldiers have died from the infections, but five extremely sick patients who were in the same hospitals as the injured soldiers have died after being infected with the bacteria, Acinetobacter baumannii. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Acinetobacter baumannii Infections Military Medical Facilities Treating Injured U.S. Service Members, 2002--2004 From January 1, 2002 to August 31, 2004, military health officials identified 102 patients with blood cultures of Acinetobacter baumannii at military medical facilities treating service members injured in Afghanistan and the Iraq/Kuwait region. Most of the infections were reported from Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, Germany 33 patients: 32 OIF/OEF casualties, one non-OIF/OEF, and Walter Reed Army Medical Center (WRAMC), District of Columbia 45 patients: 29 OIF/OEF casualties, 16 non-OIF/OEF. The Acinetobacter Baumanii strain was isolated to the soil in Iraq, and enters through dirty battle field wounds or serious infections ( Pneumonia ). The British Health Protection Agency was the first to publicly identify this in March 2003, and DOD waited till November 2004 to recognize it after the CDC posted the findings of the 102 cases. Cases of Cutaneous Leishmaniasis at Walter Reed Army Hospital also showed up with Acinetobacter baumannii. One person from there wants to meet others who were there to share stories. Marcie Hascall Clark junglem@yahoo.com 321 779 6799
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God Bless
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