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Govt. Shutdown

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Poll Question: Who is in favor of govt shutdown to defund Obamacare?
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17 [30.91%]
38 [69.09%]

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    Posted: October 15 2013 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by coyote coyote wrote:

John Boner = "The Weeping Carrot"

Now what happens??

Maybe about time for me to go out and buy that brand new Dodge truck that I've been wanting a couple of years now??? I think not.
 
Maybe it is. Pay off about half of it and finance the rest. When the insane inflation rears its ugly head, you'll be able to pay it off for the price of a loaf of bread.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2013 at 7:29am
Don't forget the sauce
 
Boozin Bohner I guess cant govern unless he's half lit up
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2013 at 11:45am
6
Originally posted by coyote coyote wrote:

John Boner = "The Weeping Carrot"


I thought TG calling him "orange boner" was a crack up, but that's the best one yet
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2013 at 10:44am
John Boner = "The Weeping Carrot"

Now what happens??

Maybe about time for me to go out and buy that brand new Dodge truck that I've been wanting a couple of years now??? I think not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2013 at 10:41am

REPUBLICANS ARE SURRENDERING!!!

THROW THE BUMS OUT!
Poll suggests disgust with Obama, Congress could bring big changes in 2014...
Americans Speaking Out: 'I Think Obama Is Being Kind Of Crappy'...
GOP approval rating hits lowest point in Gallup poll history...
Democrats view of congressional job approval drops to 5%...
Americans' satisfaction with gov't falls to new low...
Perceived need for third party reaches new high...
Site urges users to 'drunk dial' lawmakers...
BUCHANAN: Is red state America seceding?
COULTER TO GOP: Change or die...

Drudge Report
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2013 at 9:48pm
Nobody is more resentful than a childish president who continually refuses to sit down and have a discussion witth republicans!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2013 at 7:33am
Why the Rich and Powerful Have Less Empathy
A psychologist reveals that the richer and more powerful a person is, the less empathy he or she is likely to have for people who are lower in status.
October 7, 2013  |    
 

Psychologist Daniel Goleman has written a fascinating  piece for today’s New York Times about social status and empathy. It seems that the richer and more powerful a person is, the less empathy he or she is likely to have for people who are lower in status:

A growing body of recent research shows that people with the most social power pay scant attention to those with little such power. This tuning out has been observed, for instance, with strangers in a mere five-minute get-acquainted session, where the more powerful person shows fewer signals of paying attention, like nodding or laughing. Higher-status people are also more likely to express disregard, through facial expressions, and are more likely to take over the conversation and interrupt or look past the other speaker.

[Snip]

In 2008, social psychologists from the University of Amsterdam and the University of California, Berkeley, studied pairs of strangers telling one another about difficulties they had been through, like a divorce or death of a loved one. The researchers found that the differential expressed itself in the playing down of suffering. The more powerful were less compassionate toward the hardships described by the less powerful.

It’s not that rich people are natural-born sociopaths — although some of them certainly give that impression. Rather, says Goleman, while rich people can buy all the help they need, people of modest means “are more likely to value their social assets”:

The financial difference ends up creating a behavioral difference. Poor people are better attuned to interpersonal relations — with those of the same strata, and the more powerful — than the rich are, because they have to be.
Goleman says that growing inequality and the social distance it creates may be responsible for a “empathy gap” that has led to the Republican party’s Scrooge-like politics: cutting food stamps, denying health care, etc. I don’t doubt there’s something to that, but political ideology is far more complicated than that. I have relatives whose politics are awful but whose personal behavior could hardly be more generous and empathetic. And I’ve also known people with great politics who behave like cold-hearted bastards, particularly towards their social inferiors.

But I do agree that in societies where there is more equality and less social distance, there does tend to be more empathy. That was one of the points I was making in  this post. As I wrote, “[d]eeply unequal societies like ours are … breeding grounds for a host of simmering resentments, petty tyrannies and everyday sadism.” That’s because, on the one hand, you have so many heartless power plays and unthinking acts of cruelty on the part of the powerful. And on the other hand, the experience of constantly being dehumanized and robbed of one’s dignity doesn’t exactly improve one’s character. What it’s likely to do, instead, is to cause you, in turn, to dehumanize others. It is not an edifying spectacle. But it is inevitable when you create an economic system that allows people to use human beings like objects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2013 at 7:28am

The Sick Social Darwinism Driving Modern Republicans

As a country, we've rejected the notion that each of us is on his or her own in a competitive contest for survival. Republicans want to bring Social Darwinism back.
December 6, 2011  |  
 

What kind of society, exactly, do modern Republicans want? I’ve been listening to Republican candidates in an effort to discern an overall philosophy, a broadly-shared vision, an ideal picture of America.

They say they want a smaller government but that can’t be it. Most seek a larger national defense and more muscular homeland security. Almost all want to widen the government’s powers of search and surveillance inside the United States – eradicating possible terrorists, expunging undocumented immigrants, “securing” the nation’s borders. They want stiffer criminal sentences, including broader application of the death penalty. Many also want government to intrude on the most intimate aspects of private life.

They call themselves conservatives but that’s not it, either. They don’t want to conserve what we now have. They’d rather take the country backwards – before the 1960s and 1970s, and the Environmental Protection Act, Medicare, and Medicaid; before the New Deal, and its provision for Social Security, unemployment insurance, the forty-hour workweek, and official recognition of trade unions; even before the Progressive Era, and the first national income tax, antitrust laws, and Federal Reserve.

They’re not conservatives. They’re regressives. And the America they seek is the one we had in the Gilded Age of the late nineteenth century.

It was an era when the nation was mesmerized by the doctrine of free enterprise, but few Americans actually enjoyed much freedom. Robber barons like the financier Jay Gould, the railroad magnate Cornelius Vanderbilt, and the oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, controlled much of American industry; the gap between rich and poor had turned into a chasm; urban slums festered; women couldn’t vote and black Americans were subject to Jim Crow; and the lackeys of rich literally deposited sacks of money on desks of pliant legislators.

Most tellingly, it was a time when the ideas of William Graham Sumner, a professor of political and social science at Yale, dominated American social thought. Sumner brought Charles Darwin to America and twisted him into a theory to fit the times.

Few Americans living today have read any of Sumner’s writings but they had an electrifying effect on America during the last three decades of the 19th century.

To Sumner and his followers, life was a competitive struggle in which only the fittest could survive – and through this struggle societies became stronger over time. A correlate of this principle was that government should do little or nothing to help those in need because that would interfere with natural selection.

Listen to today’s Republican debates and you hear a continuous regurgitation of Sumner. “Civilization has a simple choice,” Sumner wrote in the 1880s. It’s either “liberty, inequality, survival of the fittest,” or “not-liberty, equality, survival of the unfittest. The former carries society forward and favors all its best members; the latter carries society downwards and favors all its worst members.”


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2013 at 4:39am
Earnings Season Starts With Government Still Shut; 9 Days Till The Debt X-Date [link to www.zerohedge.com]
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Economic Collapse and the Debt Ceiling: The 4th Turning is Here


http://www.blacklistednews.com/Economic_Collapse_and_the_Debt_Ceiling%3A_The_4th_Turning_is_Here/29400/0/0/0/Y/M.html

"There are two distinct sectors of society emerging. One is buzzing with passion and new insights in the nature of our society and government. They are proactively using this knowledge to better the world (and themselves) in any way they can. Revolution is whispering in the wind. The other is passively reacting to things that are happening to them. They are becoming increasingly compliant with an overbearing, tyrannical government. Without a foundation, they go whichever way the wind blows.

History has shown us a societal situation like this before. During what are called “4th turnings” groups entrench themselves in the power structure and in support of it, and others organize to resist it. Famous Fourth Turnings of the past include: The Wars of the Roses (1459-1487), The American Revolution (1773-1794), The Civil War (1860-1865), and the Great Depression and World War II (1929-1946)

History is made up of highs and lows. During a high, government and institutions are built up while values are established and commonly held. Another generation is born and these institutions are questioned and undermined. Then, an “unraveling” era unfolds.

Authors William Strauss and Neil Howe document these patterns in their 1997 book The Fourth Turning. The book reminds us that the old adage “There is nothing new under the sun” is truly rooted in fact. The issues that we are facing today – with new faces and slightly different angles – are the same realities that our ancestors dealt with during their times of crisis.

“History is seasonal,” write Strauss and Howe, “…and winter is coming.” “Like nature’s winter, the saecular winter can come early or late. A Fourth Turning can be long and difficult, brief but severe, or (perhaps) mild. But, like winter, it cannot be averted. It must come in its turn.”

As a society we are sensing the coming winter and (hopefully) preparing accordingly, just as past generations did at their time of crisis. Government is certainly preparing for massive upheaval just in time for the arrival of the Fourth Turning. As Strauss and Howe point out, the outcome of this season of radical change and potential destruction is up to us.

The authors accurately predict in 1996 that one of the indicators of modern America’s Fourth Turning will be:

“An impasse over the federal budget reaches a stalemate. The president and Congress both refuse to back down, triggering a near-total government shutdown. The president declares emergency powers. Congress rescinds his authority. Dollar and bond prices plummet. The president threatens to stop Social Security checks. Congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling. Default looms. Wall Street panics.”

All of the indicators are in front of us. The new generation has forgotten the lessons of the past. An entrenched elite is refusing to back down. The global economy is teetering on the brink of collapse. The human capacity for intuiting danger is raising red flags across the board. Resistance is growing. The cycle is repeating."



THE FOURTH TURNING 


READ it !



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2013 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:

You truly believe what John Boehner and the house repubs  are doing is not revolting against authority?  Bullets flying  and violence ???   That is not what I was implying. 
 Your statement ,  " How much of the military is going to follow you and your kind vs Me and mine? "   What is your kind?  
 
There is a huge difference between not going along with what many see a horribly flawed agenda and outright Sedition.
 
Who is the authority? A wannabe dictator who thinks of himself as a king? The President is only the authority over the military, *NOT* the Senate or the House and there are very good reasons for that. Think long and hard before you start throwing terms like Sedition and Treason around. Words mean things. 
 
A simple disagreement over a bad law is hardly sedition, nor is it a revolt. Sedition is a high crime akin to treason. If anyone was pulling a Seditionous act the U.S. Marshall service, Secret Service, FBI, etc would be involved, and yes, bullets would be flying.
 
And if you think that the House of Representatives should be charged with Treason or Sedition, you might as well just scrap the rest of the Constitution and install Zer0 as your king, because that's exactly what you'd get. You'd also have a hot civil war on your hands in short order, and yes, there'd be quite a lot of violence, bullets flying, and bloodshed. Actually, chances are the military would instantly depose him with force and jail him.
 
If a civil war kicks off between Liberals and Conservatives, which side is the vast, as in easily 90% of the military, going to fight for? How about the police? Easily 90% of both professions are dominated by those further right than even I am. It's not going to be society's leeches who are clamoring for their free stuff they're going to work to defend.
 
My kind is the Conservatives and Libertarians who stand in your way, the way of fiscal irresponsibility.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2013 at 12:02pm
You truly believe what John Boehner and the house repubs  are doing is not revolting against authority?  Bullets flying  and violence ???   That is not what I was implying. 
 Your statement ,  " How much of the military is going to follow you and your kind vs Me and mine? "   What is your kind?  
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Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:

Sedition

<Wall O' Text>

 
So not doing everything a wannabe dictator wants us to do is sedition?
 
Have bullets started flying and I'm unaware? Are people talking open, armed insurrection?
 
That's a pretty strong word to throw around, but if you want to get all nasty about it and start throwing people in jail or outright executing them, by all means, start that one up because you're on the wrong side of a brewing civil war if you do. How much of the military is going to follow you and your kind vs Me and mine? How many of the Police are going to?
 
I find it funny how fast you liberals switch from sweet and cuddly to Waffen SS when you don't get your way instantly.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2013 at 7:46am
Sedition

A revolt or an incitement to revolt against established authority, usually in the form of Treason or Defamation against government.

Sedition is the crime of revolting or inciting revolt against government. However, because of the broad protection of free speech under the First Amendment, prosecutions for sedition are rare. Nevertheless, sedition remains a crime in the United States under 18 U.S.C.A. § 2384 (2000), a federal statute that punishes seditious conspiracy, and 18 U.S.C.A. § 2385 (2000), which outlaws advocating the overthrow of the federal government by force. Generally, a person may be punished for sedition only when he or she makes statements that create a Clear and Present Danger to rights that the government may lawfully protect (schenck v. united states, 249 U.S. 47, 39 S. Ct. 247, 63 L. Ed. 470 [1919]).

The crime of seditious conspiracy is committed when two or more persons in any state or U.S. territory conspire to levy war against the U.S. government. A person commits the crime of advocating the violent overthrow of the federal government when she willfully advocates or teaches the overthrow of the government by force, publishes material that advocates the overthrow of the government by force, or organizes persons to overthrow the government by force. A person found guilty of seditious conspiracy or advocating the overthrow of the government may be fined and sentenced to up to 20 years in prison. States also maintain laws that punish similar advocacy and conspiracy against the state government.

Governments have made sedition illegal since time immemorial. The precise acts that constitute sedition have varied. In the United States, Congress in the late eighteenth century believed that government should be protected from "false, scandalous and malicious" criticisms. Toward this end, Congress passed the Sedition Act of 1798, which authorized the criminal prosecution of persons who wrote or spoke falsehoods about the government, Congress, the president, or the vice president. The act was to expire with the term of President John Adams.

The Sedition Act failed miserably. Thomas Jefferson opposed the act, and after he was narrowly elected president in 1800, public opposition to the act grew. The act expired in 1801, but not before it was used by President Adams to prosecute numerous public supporters of Jefferson, his challenger in the presidential election of 1800. One writer, Matthew Lyon, a congressman from Vermont, was found guilty of seditious libel for stating, in part, that he would not be the "humble advocate" of the Adams administration when he saw "every consideration of the public welfare swallowed up in a continual grasp for power, in an unbounded thirst for ridiculous pomp, foolish adulation, and selfish avarice" (Lyon's Case, 15 F. Cas. 1183 [D. Vermont 1798] [No. 8646]). Vermont voters reelected Lyon while he was in jail. Jefferson, after winning the election and assuming office, pardoned all persons convicted under the act.

In the 1820s and 1830s, as the movement to abolish Slavery grew in size and force in the South, Southern states began to enact seditious libel laws. Most of these laws were used to prosecute persons critical of slavery, and they were abolished after the Civil War. The federal government was no less defensive; Congress enacted seditious conspiracy laws before the Civil War aimed at persons advocating secession from the United States. These laws were the precursors to the present-day federal seditious conspiracy statutes.

In the late nineteenth century, Congress and the states began to enact new limits on speech, most notably statutes prohibitingObscenity. At the outset of World War I, Congress passed legislation designed to suppress antiwar speech. The Espionage Act of 1917 (ch. 30, tit. 1, § 3, 40 Stat. 219), as amended by ch. 75, § 1, 40 Stat 553, put a number of pacifists into prison. Socialist leader eugene v. debs was convicted for making an antiwar speech in Canton, Ohio (Debs v. United States, 249 U.S. 211, 39 S. Ct. 252, 63 L. Ed. 566 [1919]). Charles T. Schenck and Elizabeth Baer were convicted for circulating to military recruits a leaflet that advocated opposition to the draft and suggested that the draft violated the Thirteenth Amendment's ban on Involuntary Servitude (Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47, 39 S. Ct. 247, 63 L. Ed. 470 [1919]).

The U.S. Supreme Court did little to protect the right to criticize the government until after 1927. That year, Justice louis d. brandeis wrote an influential concurring opinion in Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357, 47 S. Ct. 641, 71 L. Ed. 1095 (1927), that was to guide First Amendment Jurisprudence for years to come. In Whitney the High Court upheld the convictions of political activists for violation of federal anti-syndicalism laws, or laws that prohibit the teaching of crime. In his concurring opinion, Brandeis maintained that even if a person advocates violation of the law, "it is not a justification for denying free speech where the advocacy falls short of incitement and there is nothing to indicate that the advocacy would be immediately acted on." Beginning in the 1930s, the Court became more protective of political free speech rights.

The High Court has protected the speech of racial supremacists and separatists, labor organizers, advocates of racialIntegration, and opponents of the draft for the Vietnam War. However, it has refused to declare unconstitutional all sedition statutes and prosecutions. In 1940, to silence radicals and quell Nazi or communist subversion during the burgeoning Second World War, Congress enacted the Smith Act (18 U.S.C.A. §§ 2385, 2387), which outlawed sedition and seditious conspiracy. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the act in Dennis v. United States, 341 U.S. 494, 71 S. Ct. 857, 95 L. Ed. 1137 (1951).

Sedition prosecutions are extremely rare, but they do occur. Shortly after the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center in New York City, the federal government prosecuted Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a blind Egyptian cleric living in New Jersey, and nine codefendants on charges of seditious conspiracy. Rahman and the other defendants were convicted of violating the seditious conspiracy statute by engaging in an extensive plot to wage a war of Terrorism against the United States. With the exception of Rahman, they all were arrested while mixing explosives in a garage in Queens, New York, on June 24, 1993.

The defendants committed no overt acts of war, but all were found to have taken substantial steps toward carrying out a plot to levy war against the United States. The government did not have sufficient evidence that Rahman par ticipated in the actual plotting against the government or any other activities to prepare for terrorism. He was instead prosecuted for pro viding religious encouragement to his cocon spirators. Rahman argued that he only performed the function of a cleric and advised followers about the rules of Islam. He and the others were convicted, and on January 17, 1996, Rahman was sentenced to life imprisonment by Judge Michael Mukasey.

Following the September 11th Attacks of 2001, the federal government feared that terrorist networks were very real threats, and that if left unchecked, would lead to further insurrection. As a result, Congress enacted the Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001, Pub. L. No. 107-56, 115 Stat. 272. Among other things, the act increases the president's authority to seize the property of individuals and organizations that the president determines have planned, authorized, aided, or engaged in hostilities or attacks against the United States.

The events of September 11 also led to the conviction of at least one American. In 2001, U.S. officials captured John Philip Walker Lindh, a U.S. citizen who had trained with terrorist organizations in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Lindh, who became known as the "American Taliban," was indicted on ten counts, including conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals. In October 2002, he was sentenced to 20 years in prison

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:


You know what, you said something I agree with.

Oh wait...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!



I told you - not always, but once in a while. It's an extension of the "Infinite monkey theorem". A chimp typing on a computer for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text that another chimp will agree with WinkWinkWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 9:00pm
My question is, Are they going to let everything crash while we are still armed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Is This A Joke Is This A Joke wrote:



The law has already gone through and passed congress
The law has already gone through and passed the senate
The law has already been signed into law by the president

This is called the democratize process of the United States, which took a year and a half



You know what, I totally forgot to throw this one on you until now.

Dred Scott does not approve.

I doubt you'll understand that one.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:



Sounds familiar?       2. neo-feudalism
The phenomenon of corporations taking control of cultures and indiviuals through money, policies, practices, and gatekeeping in general to the point that they control many aspects of everyday private life.
Because of neo-feudalism, I now work 60 hours a week just to keep my job, so I have no life outside of work.

I had to stop smoking/go on a diet/get my tats removed/buy phone service from company X as a condition of employment. Neo-feudalism is killing me.

Under neo-feudalism, those with money and power tell those without "We own your ass."





Wait, did you say 0bamaphone? I gotta gets me one of dem shets.

You think 0bamacare ISN'T corporations taking control of cultures and individuals?

Illuminating.

For extra credit think about who will benefit most from 0bamacare. Hint: It's not the people.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

It's disturbing how many things and people are now labelled "un-American". Haven't seen this much anger and paranoia since 9/11 and the way Bush (ding - another point) and his little gang of bullies railroaded everything through by throwing that one out whenever someone voiced dissent. We roll out the cavalry and drop a few billion every time we think foreign nationals are being mistreated by their government, but God forbid we should help our own. That's just un-American. Go figure Stern Smile


You know what, you said something I agree with.

Oh wait...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Anyways, what was wrong when that butthole surfer Bush did it, is still wrong when Zer0 does it. Just because the previous ass did it, doesn't mean it's okay now, and literally if I changed the Bush to 0bama in your post, it reads the same because exactly the same crap is going on. The only difference is that now that the House is dragging their feet, they're "holding America hostage."

And to think we almost went to war and spent several billion taking on the mantle of Al Qaeda's personal Air Force. If not for Putin making a fool out of Zer0 on the international and domestic stage, we'd be screwing around spending money in a civil war we have no business being in.

Edited for clarity because it made more sense in my head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 2:06pm
It's disturbing how many things and people are now labelled "un-American". Haven't seen this much anger and paranoia since 9/11 and the way Bush (ding - another point) and his little gang of bullies railroaded everything through by throwing that one out whenever someone voiced dissent. We roll out the cavalry and drop a few billion every time we think foreign nationals are being mistreated by their government, but God forbid we should help our own. That's just un-American. Go figure Stern Smile
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2013 at 11:42am
Mc·Car·thy·ism  (m-kärth-zm)
n.
1. The practice of publicizing accusations of political disloyalty or subversion with insufficient regard to evidence.
2. The use of unfair investigatory or accusatory methods in order to suppress opposition.
Subversion refers to an attempt to transform the established social order and its structures of power, authority, and hierarchy. Subversion (Latin subvertere: overthrow) refers to a process by which the values and principles of a system in place, are contradicted or reversed *. More specifically, subversion can be described as an attack on the public morale and, “the will to resist intervention are the products of combined political and social or class loyalties which are usually attached to national symbols. Following penetration, and parallel with the forced disintegration of political and social institutions of the state, these loyalties may be detached and transferred to the political or ideological cause of the aggressor.” [1] Subversion is used as a tool to achieve political goals because it generally carries less risk, cost, and difficulty as opposed to open belligerency. Furthermore, it is a relatively cheap form of warfare that does not require large amounts of training.[2] A subversive is something or someone carrying the potential for some degree of subversion. In this context, a "subversive" is sometimes called a "traitor" with respect to (and usually by) the government in power. Terrorist groups generally do not employ subversion as a tool to achieve their goals. Subversion is a manpower intensive strategy and many groups lack the manpower and political and social connections to carry out subversive activities.[3] However, actions taken by terrorists may have a subversive effect on society. Subversion can imply the use of insidious, dishonest, monetary, or violent methods to bring about such change.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:

BAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! You actually believe that? Oh my God.


Yep. Well, that and I wanted to yank your chain with both hands, TG. And mission accomplished Thumbs Up
You forget that I'm your complete opposite, so don't be surprised when sometimes I don't agree with the world according to Turboguy, even at the risk of invoking extreme use of the quotation function and capitalized laughter. Once in a great while I'll be on the same page maybe, but definitely not always. You should know me better than that after all these years and all the times we've debated stuff like this. In order for there to be balance in the universe I'm the liberal counterpart to, well, you. Yin and yang. You wake up hating everyone, and I'm far more selective and require a reason. See how it works?
And dude - gratz on completing a post without insulting the entire population of the random sovereign nation you decided you don't like today. Must have taken some self control, especially with me being a huge fan of (here it comes)...Britain's National Heath Service!!! Actually, that one was a freebie, so have at it. Don't forget to start the next post with something like "BAAWAAAWAAA", "HAAAHAAAHAA" or "BAAAHAAAHAAA". Or whatever.
I'd happily blame Bush for everything if I had time, so give me a point back. And I don't think the GOP is racist - look at John Boehner. They elected him as the house speaker and he's clearly a person of color. Orange, but it's a color.
Jeez, why is it that conservatives claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views? No, wait - I can't steal that one because they're really not interested in other people's views LOL


PS. Jacksdad's Doohickeys (TM) are made in China and are, quite frankly, of questionable quality (we've had problems with the handles) and possibly contaminated with heavy metals judging by the nausea and the weird stains they leave on your hands. Selling them under threat of physical violence is the only way I can stay in business. It's free enterprise and my Sicilian business partners are in complete agreement. Returns require a receipt and the understanding that Big Sal will be "taking care of it" personally, so business has actually been pretty good.

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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 6:03pm

Darwinism

Social Darwinism is a belief, popular in the late Victorian era in England, America, and elsewhere, which states that the strongest or fittest should survive and flourish in society, while the weak and unfit should be allowed to die. The theory was chiefly expounded by Herbert Spencer, whose ethical philosophies always held an elitist view and received a boost from the application of Darwinian ideas such as adaptation and natural selection.

Spencer and Social Darwinism

Herbert Spencer, the father of Social Darwinism as an ethical theory, was thinking in terms of elitist, "might makes right" sorts of views long before Darwin published his theory. However, Spencer quickly adapted Darwinian ideas to his own ethical theories. The concept of adaptation allowed him to claim that the rich and powerful were better adapted to the social and economic climate of the time, and the concept of natural selection allowed him to argue that it was natural, normal, and proper for the strong to thrive at the expense of the weak. After all, he claimed, that is exactly what goes on in nature every day.

However, Spencer did not just present his theories as placing humans on a parallel with nature. Not only was survival of the fittest natural, but it was also morally correct. Indeed, some extreme Social Darwinists argued that it was morally incorrect to assist those weaker than oneself, since that would be promoting the survival and possible reproduction of someone who was fundamentally unfit.

Applications of Social Darwinism

Social Darwinism was used to justify numerous exploits which we classify as of dubious moral value today. Colonialism was seen as natural and inevitable, and given justification through Social Darwinian ethics - people saw natives as being weaker and more unfit to survive, and therefore felt justified in seizing land and resources. Social Darwinism applied to military action as well; the argument went that the strongest military would win, and would therefore be the most fit. Casualties on the losing side, of course, were written off as the natural result of their unfit status. Finally, it gave the ethical nod to brutal colonial governments who used oppressive tactics against their subjects.

Social Darwinism applied to a social context too, of course. It provided a justification for the more exploitative forms of capitalism in which workers were paid sometimes pennies a day for long hours of backbreaking labor. Social Darwinism also justified big business' refusal to acknowledge labor unions and similar organizations, and implied that the rich need not donate money to the poor or less fortunate, since such people were less fit anyway.

In its most extreme forms, Social Darwinism has been used to justify eugenics programs aimed at weeding "undesirable" genes from the population; such programs were sometimes accompanied by sterilization laws directed against "unfit" individuals. The American eugenics movement was relatively popular between about 1910-1930, during which 24 states passed sterilization laws and Congress passed a law restricting immigration from certain areas deemed to be unfit. Social Darwinist ideas, though in different forms, were also applied by the Nazi party in Germany to justify their eugenics programs.

Positive Results of Social Darwinism

Not all Social Darwinists were quite so extreme, and Social Darwinism was not the only justification of colonialism, imperialism, and other intrusive exploits (the "white man's burden" was another, almost completely opposite, justification). In fact, the early Social Darwinists, who regarded the theory as a logical extension of laissez-faire capitalism, would have been appalled at the use of the concept to promote state-run eugenics programs.

Though its moral basis is now generally opposed, Social Darwinism did have some favorable effects. Belief in Social Darwinism tended to discourage wanton handouts to the poor, favoring instead providing resources for the fittest of all walks of life to use, or choosing specific, genuinely deserving people as recipients of help and support. Some major capitalists, such as Andrew Carnegie, combined philanthropy with Social Darwinism; he used his vast fortune to set up hundreds of libraries and other public institutions, including a university, for the benefit of those who would choose to avail themselves of such resources. He opposed direct and indiscriminate handouts to the poor because he felt that this favored the undeserving and the deserving person equally.

The Problem with Social Darwinism

Social Darwinism's philosophical problems are rather daunting, and fatal to it as a basic theory (though some have applied similar ideas). First, it makes the faulty assumption that what is natural is equivalent to what is morally correct. In other words, it falls prey to the belief that just because something takes place in nature, it must be a moral paradigm for humans to follow.

This problem in Social Darwinist thinking stems from the fact that the theory falls into the "naturalistic fallacy", which consists of trying to derive an ought statement from an isstatement. For example, the fact that you stubbed your toe this morning does not logically imply that you ought to have stubbed your toe! The same argument applies to the Social Darwinists' attempt to extend natural processes into human social structures. This is a common problem in philosophy, and it is commonly stated that it is absolutely impossible to derive ought from is (though this is still sometimes disputed); at the very least, it is impossible to do it so simply and directly as the Social Darwinists did. (See also Evolution and Ethics.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 5:31pm
These repubs have the gall to talk about God as they are hacking away at our social compact. Faux outrage, hypocrites

  1. During debate on the measure, RepTim Huelskamp, R-Kan., asked, "Is it really the policy of this administration to make church services illegal?


31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 4:20pm

Sounds familiar?       2. neo-feudalism
The phenomenon of corporations taking control of cultures and indiviuals through money, policies, practices, and gatekeeping in general to the point that they control many aspects of everyday private life.
Because of neo-feudalism, I now work 60 hours a week just to keep my job, so I have no life outside of work.

I had to stop smoking/go on a diet/get my tats removed/buy phone service from company X as a condition of employment. Neo-feudalism is killing me.

Under neo-feudalism, those with money and power tell those without "We own your ass."



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 2:45pm
BAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! You actually believe that? Oh my God.

It was bad policy when that liberal piece of schit Romney did it, and it's an even worse idea when Zer0's trying to pull the same scam. I find it funny that you were able to hit almost all the dullard liberal talking points in one post. Gratz on that, though you forgot to blame Bush and scream racism, so minus two.

Romney is hardly a conservative, actually he's a hardline liberal in the vast majority of the country, and that's exactly why he lost as bad as he did to a pantywaist, effeminate, coward of a man. I still remain hoodwinked as to how they thought running an east coast liberal, basically liberal light, vs a hardline socialist might work out. My wager is that the party illuminati will try the same failed strategy and run Christy. As much as you'd like to tell yourself that he was the party golden boy, he wasn't.

The reason that it shouldn't be implemented is that it is astoundingly bad policy. If I've read the Bronze Plan correctly, and believe me, I have, it is a nearly $200 a month policy with a $5000 deductible. If something catastrophic happens, you're already in $7400 before you get a drop of treatment. What twenty year old through twenty seven year old is going to willingly lighten their wallet that much? Particularly when there is no basis for pre-existing conditions. Why not just pay the fine, and if you get sick or hurt, just get insurance while that's going on, then drop back off the rolls as soon as you're better?

HHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You think the insurance companies were screwing you BEFORE!?! You know they were part and parcel of the writing and implementation of this law, right? If your business was Jacksdad's doohickey, and the government asked you if it were a good idea to force the American public under penalty of death or incarceration to require them to buy a doohickey, would you be for that? And what, then, would you do to the price? Of course you'd raise it significantly. People either buy your doohickey or die/go to jail. Seriously, if you actually believe what you wrote, you desperately need to open your eyes.

If they wanted to screw the insurance companies, they could have let people buy insurance policies from across state lines and force competition, but they didn't, did they. You know that our government prevented you from going out of state for your insurance? So they created the problem, then to fix it, they went full retard.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 11:18am
If the ACA is going to be the disaster that it's detractors claim, why aren't Boehner, Cantor, Cruz et al playing it smart and waiting until it fails so they can come to our rescue and pick up a gazillion brownie points in the process? Any strategist and adviser worth their salt should be screaming at them to sit back and let everyone know they've done all they can to stop it, then take responsibility for undoing the damage when they're swept into power on the shoulders of the angry masses - simple and pretty obvious, but they're not doing it. Why?
Though you'll never hear mention of it in Republican circles these days, the dreaded R-word, Romneycare (AKA Masschusetts' affordable healthcare act), has them running scared. Even in the election Romney wasn't allowed to take credit for it because it was Obamacare by another name, and more importantly predated and heavily influenced the Affordable Care Act. Here's the kicker for those that have forgotten - Mitt Romney, former golden boy of the GOP, invented Obamacare, and for that (and that alone) I thank him Thumbs Up
And just in case those damned Democrats should decide to remind everyone of that fact and use Romney against them, groups like the Cato Institute (funded by the Koch brothers - formerly known as one of the biggest contributors to his failed presidential campaign) are now proclaiming his signature healthcare reform a failure. I just hope Romney has a stylish hat to hide the tread marks across his forehead from being thrown under the bus by his own party, because nobody in the GOP is going to kissing that boo-boo better anytime soon.
They know from Massachusetts' experience that the sky won't start falling, and if they give this a year or two enough Americans will realize that they're much better off not being royally - and legally - screwed over by the insurance companies, who are undoubtedly calling in every last one of their favors with their elected cronies and demanding they drive the bus off the cliff because someone let their cash cow - the American people - out of the barn where they had them safely locked up for decades. While it worked well for some, the system was broken for too many Americans and someone finally had the balls to stand up to the corporate bullies that had everyone in a stranglehold and at least try to fix it.
Ooh JD - what did you do now... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 7:55am
Originally posted by Kilt2 Kilt2 wrote:

We have an instant solution for a shutdown.

The Governor General sacks the Government, installs a caretaker Government and dissolves both houses of parliament in the hope the people will elect a better bunch of buffoons.

That happened in 1975 and it worked like a charm.


It also worked fantastically well on January 30th 1933.

Our Constitutional Republic works well specifically because we aren't going to do that, nor would we, the American people, allow it. We plainly are not going to let any one person strong arm control.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 7:44am
Originally posted by Is This. A Joke Is This. A Joke wrote:

How Pathetic

You don't even deserve a response

Your just an angry old man who needs to feel like a big man by attacking people online

How pathetic Turbo Turd


Yeah, that's probably a good idea considering that I know more about the law you're clamoring for than you do in addition to the economy at large.

Am I angry? You damned right I'm angry! I don't want you butthole surfers to crash the economy while sticking your grubby hands in my bank account to steal from me because I was smart enough to land a well paying job or two. You lack a grasp of economic fundamentals.

But my being angry doesn't change the facts or that I am right and you are wrong.

Admit it: You either don't have a job, or posting liberal drivel *IS* your job. Amirite?
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 7:36am
Originally posted by Strategos Strategos wrote:

Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:


Lockheed Martin furloughing 3,000 employees




http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2013/10/04/Lockheed-Martin-furloughing-3000-employees/UPI-27151380919203/






 

 

 See, this just keeps getting better and better. In fact, this gives a little peek in to a major issue with Obamacare that I know most people are not even thinking about, which is to say:
 
I think most would agree, and know, that Obamacare's funding is coming from the tax on the American people who would rather pay the penalty then get mandated insurance and those who are willing to get the insurance mandate or not, in other words, the American tax payer in general. But you see, unlike the normal way healthcare has worked, which is to say, the old system, this new Obamacare is more reliant on the USA economy to work. In other words, if the USA economy is strong, then more people have more money to put into the system, but if the USA economy is weak, then you have less money to put into the system, meaning Obamacare. So, what do you think would happen if we had an economical collapse?
 
Well first, the money pool for Obamacare would quickly dry up, which would cause, in time, the premiums of healthcare to sky rocket. That's because less people could put into the system. This would also mean that many more would be exempt from buying healthcare because they are now below the poverty line and do not have to pay the mandated penalty. In effect, hardly any money would be going into the system to support Obamacare.
 
Second, the tax penalty would still be in effect, so anyone that did manage to avoid going bankrupt and still finds themselves above the poverty line would be strapped paying for a system that has failed. In other words, they would be paying money that they can no longer afford to pay, but are still required to pay, for a system that is no longer functioning in the way that it was intend to function, which amounts to throwing money at a dead horse, money that would serve you best in your own pocket in economical times like that.
 
So, as you can see, attaching our economy to the funding of Obamacare is not a smart choice. Most would agree that the USA economy is in very deep trouble, especially with the massive debt we have. Most would also agree that the world economy, which all nations are linked to in one way or another, isn't in great shape either. So does it make any sense at all to put all our eggs in one basket? We are told never to do that, but here we are going against this sage advice. This is a loss even before the game has begun.
 
Now some people might argue that if something like this happened under the old system then it would have the same affect given all things equal, but I argue that it wouldn't. It wouldn't because if the economy tanks under the old system, which it has a few times in the past, then although people will be forced off of insurance because of lack of funds to pay for it, many would not. In fact, in an economy that tanks, it would be easier to save money by reducing your healthcare coverage for a while, or dropping it all together, until the economy picks up again, then it would be with Obamacare. That's because Obamacare effectively straps a person into a situation that leaves him or them, meaning a family of more then one, with no way out. You either have to have healthcare or pay for not having it, there is no wiggle room in this.

 

As a side not though, I have heard there is a system in place, in Obamacare, that would exempt people in die hard situations from having to get insurance, but in the case of an economical fallout, this system would only accelerate the downfall of Obamacare. In addition, with many natural and man made disasters occurring more frequently in the USA, this system would in fact reduce the overall effectiveness of Obamacare because more and more would be able to clam this healthcare exemption. In other words, reducing the overall funds of Obamacare would in turn increase the overall cost of heath insurance.
 
Now, of course, if an absolute total economic collapse occured, then it wouldn't matter one way or the other. But under an economical slow down, or partial economical shutdown, then the old way of doing things would still be less affected then Obamacare. That is because, as I've already stated, Obamacare ebbs and flows with the economic situation more so then the old way of doing things. Believe me when I say, Obamacare will greatly be affected by great economical changes, it can't help but be affected.
 
So, with that said, as you can see, this is not a good way to run heath care. It's not a smart way to run anything. There has to be a better way, I just know it. We need to stop wasting time with this law and come up with a substitution that will really work for all and at the same time keep government control at a limit, keep our liberties granted by our constitution in tack, and still provide healthcare for all American people as is the right thing to do. The latter, to me, is very important. I have family that could really use help in this area of their lives, and I know there are many who see the same thing in their families as well. This is a serous issue and it needs to be resolved, but not this way, not with force, but with a willingness to come together as a nation for the sake of all those who really need the help. I am my brothers keeper, I always have been, Glory to God. You can't live in America and not be.

 

So, with that said, say no to Obamacare in any way you can, and say yes to a better way of fixing this issue. Because in my heart, I know there is a better way to handle this problem. I just know it.

 

In any case, I hope I have made my point.


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Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 4:53am
Originally posted by Kilt2 Kilt2 wrote:

We have an instant solution for a shutdown.

The Governor General sacks the Government, installs a caretaker Government and dissolves both houses of parliament in the hope the people will elect a better bunch of buffoons.

That happened in 1975 and it worked like a charm.
 
 
You know, believe it or not, I feel as if this is something America may have to do to really get things on the right track. And along with that, I say from then on we only vote in those who say what they mean and not those who just tell us what we want to hear then do whatever they want to do regardless of what we want.
 
Also, we should have a clause in the law that says if person we vote in doesn't act as stated above, meaning, say what they mean and mean what they say, or at least try to do what they promised to do while campaigning, then we can pull him out and replace him with someone else who can and will keep his promises.
 
In any case, changes really do need to be made, you know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kilt2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2013 at 4:10am
We have an instant solution for a shutdown.

The Governor General sacks the Government, installs a caretaker Government and dissolves both houses of parliament in the hope the people will elect a better bunch of buffoons.

That happened in 1975 and it worked like a charm.
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:

if I remember correctly

the government is already involved in health care to the tune of app 50%

or better


Medicare,Medicaid,military,VA,Tricare etc

 
 
Indeed you are correct, however these goverment supported programs and Obamacare do not really compare, although both will run into the same problem with funding if our economy falls apart.
 
However, with that said, the impact of an economical fallout would be much more damaging on Obamacare then it would be with the programs you have listed mainly because of the size and massive scope of Obamacre compared to that which you have listed.
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Originally posted by Elver Elver wrote:

I totally agree with you.  Why does this government think they can run a healthcare system when the post office is broke, Fannie/Freddie and Sallie Mae are in deep trouble?
 
This medical experiment is not going to work, period.  I've looked at the premiums on the health care exchange and I know of lots of people who won't be able to afford it.  They couldn't afford it before and they won't be able to afford it now.  People have to have jobs and good paying jobs to be able to afford this.  So, I see that some people will try, but they'll have to cancel their i-phones, cable TV, quit going out to dinner or the movies and this will crash our economy sooner than later.  So, those people who will give it a try will have to cut back their expenses drastically to afford this and that is what our government fails to see. 
 
Then there are people like me who worry about how long I can afford health care as premiums continue to rise so we can pay for everybody who can't afford insurance.  There will be a point very soon where I will have to quit eating out, going to the movies, and will have to find a hundred little ways to save money just to keep my health insurance, but eventually I'll have to give that up too.
 
Gee, perhaps that is their plan afterall, to bankrupt us so that we gladly walk into their socialistic universe.
 
 
I do understand.
 
My older sister only brings in about $440 bucks a month. She has a son that brings in maybe $500 a month that lives with here. They are both on welfare assistance because of disabilities. I know they could sign up for medicad or medicare and have most of their heathcare paid for, but they still can't afford the out of pocket cash needed for meds and such. This has been the case before Obamacare and will remain the case after it. Obamacare changes nothing for them, so what use is it but to up the cost for heathcare for everyone else. Obamacare was supposedly created to fix a situation like this, but it falls short of doing so. And I know this is the case for many others who are below the poverity line as well.
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if I remember correctly

the government is already involved in health care to the tune of app 50%

or better


Medicare,Medicaid,military,VA,Tricare etc

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I totally agree with you.  Why does this government think they can run a healthcare system when the post office is broke, Fannie/Freddie and Sallie Mae are in deep trouble?
 
This medical experiment is not going to work, period.  I've looked at the premiums on the health care exchange and I know of lots of people who won't be able to afford it.  They couldn't afford it before and they won't be able to afford it now.  People have to have jobs and good paying jobs to be able to afford this.  So, I see that some people will try, but they'll have to cancel their i-phones, cable TV, quit going out to dinner or the movies and this will crash our economy sooner than later.  So, those people who will give it a try will have to cut back their expenses drastically to afford this and that is what our government fails to see. 
 
Then there are people like me who worry about how long I can afford health care as premiums continue to rise so we can pay for everybody who can't afford insurance.  There will be a point very soon where I will have to quit eating out, going to the movies, and will have to find a hundred little ways to save money just to keep my health insurance, but eventually I'll have to give that up too.
 
Gee, perhaps that is their plan afterall, to bankrupt us so that we gladly walk into their socialistic universe.
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Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:

Lockheed Martin furloughing 3,000 employees


http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2013/10/04/Lockheed-Martin-furloughing-3000-employees/UPI-27151380919203/


 
 
 See, this just keeps getting better and better. In fact, this gives a little peek in to a major issue with Obamacare that I know most people are not even thinking about, which is to say:
 
I think most would agree, and know, that Obamacare's funding is coming from the tax on the American people who would rather pay the penalty then get mandated insurance and those who are willing to get the insurance mandate or not, in other words, the American tax payer in general. But you see, unlike the normal way healthcare has worked, which is to say, the old system, this new Obamacare is more reliant on the USA economy to work. In other words, if the USA economy is strong, then more people have more money to put into the system, but if the USA economy is weak, then you have less money to put into the system, meaning Obamacare. So, what do you think would happen if we had an economical collapse?
 
Well first, the money pool for Obamacare would quickly dry up, which would cause, in time, the premiums of healthcare to sky rocket. That's because less people could put into the system. This would also mean that many more would be exempt from buying healthcare because they are now below the poverty line and do not have to pay the mandated penalty. In effect, hardly any money would be going into the system to support Obamacare.
 
Second, the tax penalty would still be in effect, so anyone that did manage to avoid going bankrupt and still finds themselves above the poverty line would be strapped paying for a system that has failed. In other words, they would be paying money that they can no longer afford to pay, but are still required to pay, for a system that is no longer functioning in the way that it was intend to function, which amounts to throwing money at a dead horse, money that would serve you best in your own pocket in economical times like that.
 
So, as you can see, attaching our economy to the funding of Obamacare is not a smart choice. Most would agree that the USA economy is in very deep trouble, especially with the massive debt we have. Most would also agree that the world economy, which all nations are linked to in one way or another, isn't in great shape either. So does it make any sense at all to put all our eggs in one basket? We are told never to do that, but here we are going against this sage advice. This is a loss even before the game has begun.
 
Now some people might argue that if something like this happened under the old system then it would have the same affect given all things equal, but I argue that it wouldn't. It wouldn't because if the economy tanks under the old system, which it has a few times in the past, then although people will be forced off of insurance because of lack of funds to pay for it, many would not. In fact, in an economy that tanks, it would be easier to save money by reducing your healthcare coverage for a while, or dropping it all together, until the economy picks up again, then it would be with Obamacare. That's because Obamacare effectively straps a person into a situation that leaves him or them, meaning a family of more then one, with no way out. You either have to have healthcare or pay for not having it, there is no wiggle room in this.
 
As a side not though, I have heard there is a system in place, in Obamacare, that would exempt people in die hard situations from having to get insurance, but in the case of an economical fallout, this system would only accelerate the downfall of Obamacare. In addition, with many natural and man made disasters occurring more frequently in the USA, this system would in fact reduce the overall effectiveness of Obamacare because more and more would be able to clam this healthcare exemption. In other words, reducing the overall funds of Obamacare would in turn increase the overall cost of heath insurance.
 
Now, of course, if an absolute total economic collapse occured, then it wouldn't matter one way or the other. But under an economical slow down, or partial economical shutdown, then the old way of doing things would still be less affected then Obamacare. That is because, as I've already stated, Obamacare ebbs and flows with the economic situation more so then the old way of doing things. Believe me when I say, Obamacare will greatly be affected by great economical changes, it can't help but be affected.
 
So, with that said, as you can see, this is not a good way to run heath care. It's not a smart way to run anything. There has to be a better way, I just know it. We need to stop wasting time with this law and come up with a substitution that will really work for all and at the same time keep government control at a limit, keep our liberties granted by our constitution in tack, and still provide healthcare for all American people as is the right thing to do. The latter, to me, is very important. I have family that could really use help in this area of their lives, and I know there are many who see the same thing in their families as well. This is a serous issue and it needs to be resolved, but not this way, not with force, but with a willingness to come together as a nation for the sake of all those who really need the help. I am my brothers keeper, I always have been, Glory to God. You can't live in America and not be.
 
So, with that said, say no to Obamacare in any way you can, and say yes to a better way of fixing this issue. Because in my heart, I know there is a better way to handle this problem. I just know it.
 
In any case, I hope I have made my point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 4:19pm

Lockheed Martin furloughing 3,000 employees


http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2013/10/04/Lockheed-Martin-furloughing-3000-employees/UPI-27151380919203/


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Shut Down Round Up: The Latest In Dysfunctional Government News


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-04/shut-down-round-latest-dysfunctional-government-news


Shut Down Round Up: The Latest In Dysfunctional Government News
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 10/04/2013 - 16:50

It may "not be some damn game", but this sure is some damn summary of all the latest news and developments. Via Bloomberg:
House Democrats will attempt to use discharge petition to force House to vote on clean stopgap spending bill; 17 House Republicans would need to back the measure and 20 House Republicans have said they’d vote for a clean bill
House in session tomorrow 10am
White House supports House bill to retroactively pay govt staff, says Obama would veto House piecemeal spending bills
House Speaker John Boehner says he won’t offer a clean debt limit bill, says shutdown "isn’t some damn game"
Tea Party-backed Rep. Dennis Ross, R-Fla., says he’s in favor of spending deal that doesn’t include changes to Obamacare



hmm

20 Repub's willing to go with a clean spending bill

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In the origanal.obama care everyone had to take obama care ,then when he gets passed what he wanted ,oh wait he adds to it WITHOUT getting ANYONES APPROVAL, that 19 more exemtions after its been okd, ok did you get that ok wait now he exempted MUSLMS YEH THATS RIGHT on page 107 or 104 of obama care their exemted ok so. Then exempts himself ! Congress.! Senates! their familes their aides, a CNN reporter. Ask obama if he is going to take it HE he wont answer now why are they exempt and its being forced on me im losing my ins because of obama didnt he say you can keep your ins Lies thats all he does and if you dontO open your eyes and. see whats happening you deserve what you get and your gonna get it just wait by by the way have you signed up i think you are going to be so surprised lol the jokes on you
WHAT TO DO????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2013 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Is This. A Joke Is This. A Joke wrote:

How Pathetic

You don't even deserve a response

Your just an angry old man who needs to feel like a big man by attacking people online

How pathetic Turbo Turd
 
 
No matter what you think of him sir, he has it right. Can you at least agree with some of what he is saying? Just wondering.
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How Pathetic

You don't even deserve a response

Your just an angry old man who needs to feel like a big man by attacking people online

How pathetic Turbo Turd
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Originally posted by Is This A Joke Is This A Joke wrote:

This has nothing to do with how many or who is being hurt by the shut down other than thousands of people are now without pay to keep their families afloat. This is about why not who


Oh, so you're now the champion of the Furloughed? Strange that we have absolutely nothing in common in regards to what's happening now. And furthermore, when I get back to work, I'm going to get a fat moneycheck for all the time I should have been there.

Originally posted by Is This A Joke Is This A Joke wrote:


They why is about the affordable healthcare act which is now law and has been since 2009.

The law has already gone through and passed congress
The law has already gone through and passed the senate
The law has already been signed into law by the president

This is called the democratize process of the United States, which took a year and a half


This same bill that was floated through both houses of hegemonically liberal controlled congress and *STILL* took a year and a half? Is that the one you're talking about? Is it the same one that the Montana Senator that thought this whole monstrosity up called a "Train Wreck?"

How about we have that same vote today and see the results? If you actually believe that drivel you wrote there, you're a fool.

Originally posted by Is This A Joke Is This A Joke wrote:


The only other regress is the fourth branch of government, the Judicial Branch
This has already Ben through .2 years of judicial review all they way to the Supreme Court which it was ruled constitutional by a republican heavy Supreme Court.


WRONG. Firstly the word you're looking for is "Redress." I don't expect a shining example of our public school to grasp that though.

Secondly, the Zer0 (0bama) team had to change their tune to say that instead of it being a penalty if you don't buy insurance, it's a tax, so it wouldn't get struck down on its face in the first day.

Originally posted by Is This A Joke Is This A Joke wrote:


From this point you need the votes to either change or repeal the in all three branches of government congress, senate, executive

The elections are over. The people have decided


BWAHAHAHAHAH! That's some rich crap there. Oh, you're going to get your change. But as much as you think you're going to like it, you're wrong.

Originally posted by Is This A Joke Is This A Joke wrote:


But all of that is not good enough for these people so now their going to try to force their agenda down your throat by inflicting pain on thousands and destroying the name of our country


Force? Um, I hate to break it to you, but for the most part, what the Republicans are doing right now is exactly what they were sent there for. To hamstring this catastrophe of a President and his signature disaster legislation. After all is said and done, Zer0 should be dragged from office in chains, tried for treason, and either thrown into general population at Ft. Leavenworth or get the customary sentence for treason.

Originally posted by Is This A Joke Is This A Joke wrote:


If the shoe was on the other foot you would be hearing words like anarchist or sedition


Ooh! Yeah! You Liberals need to do that! Get all angry and kick off a drum circle, or better yet go crazy and riot. Even better idea, you should all revolt and attack us evil Conservatives. I'd truly have a good time beating you like a redheaded stepchild in a Black family.

Get thee back to DU, commie.
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This has nothing to do with how many or who is being hurt by the shut down other than thousands of people are now without pay to keep their families afloat. This is about why not who

They why is about the affordable healthcare act which is now law and has been since 2009.

The law has already gone through and passed congress
The law has already gone through and passed the senate
The law has already been signed into law by the president

This is called the democratize process of the United States, which took a year and a half

The only other regress is the fourth branch of government, the Judicial Branch
This has already Ben through .2 years of judicial review all they way to the Supreme Court which it was ruled constitutional by a republican heavy Supreme Court.

From this point you need the votes to either change or repeal the in all three branches of government congress, senate, executive

The elections are over. The people have decided

But all of that is not good enough for these people so now their going to try to force their agenda down your throat by inflicting pain on thousands and destroying the name of our country

What we have here are people who can not handle a democracy when it doesn't go their way so they way to dictate to you by holding the country hostage until they get their way

Time to decide if you want to live in a democracy or a dictatorship or fascist society

If the shoe was on the other foot you would be hearing words like anarchist or sedition

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Touche'
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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