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Re-use of masks |
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Bart
Valued Member Joined: March 08 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: March 08 2006 at 12:00pm |
Does anyone have any more ideas to possibly desinfect used masks. As i believe that masks will run out very quickly as soon as any pandemic starts. I recenty heard about 3 possible options, but like to hear feedback on these ideas; - putting them under high intensity UV-lamps - putting them in the microwave and nuke the viruses to death - drench them in chloric / water mix. Any further tips or ideas ?? |
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calendula
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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To the best of my knowledge, the medical authorities are still working on figuring out whether masks can be re-used. One of the reasons for the study is the concern that with the possibility of many people becoming sick, masks will be in short supply for medical personnel as well. The study results will come out late Spring 2006. ( the masks they were referring to N95, N100) it is my understanding that currently they do not recommend re-usage of masks.
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I am not here to reason, I am here to create"
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fafhrd
Valued Member Joined: February 25 2006 Status: Offline Points: 474 |
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As a sort of aside, someone once mentioned to me that you could use
colloidal silver in solution in a spray bottle to beef up a mask with a
couple of pumps. I'm not sure that getting the mask wet would be
the best idea though, especially one without splash tolerance.
Sure would be nice if you could do so without raising its porosity.
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I had a little bird,
his name was Enza; I opened the window, and influenza. |
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Eduk8or
Valued Member Joined: February 21 2006 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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I"m looking into finding some UV light fixture that one could rig into a
"decontamination" box, much like is used for sterilizing safety goggles in school laboratory situations. Remove masks throw into the box close box, run the UV light for 1-2 minutes...voila... Don't run the risk that you have high temps of ruining the elastic bands, or increasing the porosity by spraying with "wet" disinfectants. any thoughts on this scenario? |
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Bart
Valued Member Joined: March 08 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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I just orderded 2x UV-C lamps especially for decontamination. These can be bought at a good electricity/lighting shop. I'll put them on the inside of the lit of a big enough box. The UV-C lights are 8 Watts a piece. I couldn't buy them with more power than this, but it should be sufficient. The only thing i don't know if how long the mask (or any other item) should stay in the light to be fully virus free. Is 1-2 minutes long enough ? Don't like to take risk with this.. |
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corky52
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 168 |
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UVC only hits the surfaces and won't penetrate the mask fibers. I'm going to also use ozone filtered through the mask as well. UVC lights: http://www.atlantalightbulbs.com/ecart/nw012104/BULBRITEFG8T 5.htm Ozone generators: http://www.ozone.enaly.com/index.htm
I've had a test mask in the box for eight days and only saw degradation in the elastic of the bands. I have no way of measuring how well the two kill germs, but it's better than no masks at all. |
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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No use - if disposable mask, you discard it - if rubber half or full
face mask: to be sprayed, wiped and if necessary fully cleaned. That's
all
all other ways are unsuccessfull and unsafe. Anita RN pulm nurse |
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corky52
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 168 |
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Anita, What's better no mask or a recycled mask? Not all of us will have an unlimited supply of masks. |
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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What you all dont understand is that this procedure does not work for a
disposable mask. You cant again sterilize it, or you destroy the mask.
Quite different from the vintage gauze surgical masks. Its plain
and definitive. If you fear a shortage, use a reusable mask. Besides it
will be less expensive than stockpiling disposable.
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bruss01
Adviser Group Joined: January 12 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Has anyone tried putting them in an oven on a cookie sheet at a low temp but high enough for sterilization, say 250 degrees for 20-30 minutes?
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corky52
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 168 |
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Anita, Rigid medical thinking once again! Neither UVC nor Ozone will destroy masks. At some point filters for reusable masks will also run out, what then? |
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Sorry not "rigid medical thinking" as you say, only scientific based.
UV do not penetrate the filters, and you need a long exposure to
kill the germs outside the mask. UV can also destroy or fragilize
materials, think to it . Ozone is not a reliable way of sterilizing.
Worse, and this is the final point to your purpose, even if sterilized, your disposable masks cant last more than a few hours, straps, cup shape, inner foamshape for the nose part, everything do not fit well or lose its shape after a few hours wearing; sweat, moisture do not help. They are intended to be discarded after some hours of exposure to dust or particulates, so their cheap price - and if worn as single use in medical context, as against tuberculosis, this use is minor to the primary industrial use, where they can be put on again as long as they are right and not colmated. A P100 cartridge (not disposable flat filter) can last for days. Only the outer part must be decontaminated. run out ? in a catastrophic situation maybe ... but you will need much less P100 than N95 .... |
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roxy
Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 534 |
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THANKS ANITA, FOR THE INFO, the n95's are getting expensive, i would rather have the next step, with longer use roxy
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corky52
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 168 |
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Anita, If we were all rich and had unlimited supplies I'd change masks every ten minutes and have a full bio suit as well. Problem is I'm not and have only resources I can fund. Ozone and UVC combined are the best I'll be able to do, once the limited number of masks I will have have been through first use. I'd have to decide which members of my family to give protection to under your way. Rigid medical thinking is still there, if it's not perfect then we can't do it. Some of us will have to live in the real world where life isn't perfect and we'll have to get by with the best we can do! The art of the possible! |
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Sierra779
Valued Member Joined: March 16 2006 Location: N. California Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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HI, New to the board, having read for about a week and decided to jump in. I'm glad I found this board, it was by accident. I like many have realatives that are not concerned but I AM! Today, I'm dragging hubby to the doc's and we are both getting pneumonia shots and I am getting my tetnus booster. I've read everything I can on masks. So confusing! Conflicting data...I even emailed some companies for their thoughts..ended up by asking IF you were buying a mask(s) for your wife and children what would you buy! Most said they wouldn't get the disposables....so, I opted for half-face re-usable and bought one yesterday. Hubby has one from work that he can change different filters so he's covered. Personally, I'm afraid of the fit for disposables. I don't see how you can get as tight of fit with them as you can with the re-usable masks..they ARE tight...so much so I hate the thought of wearing it...but considering the other option..I will buy some disposables for 'just in case' but will use my other one for the main purpose trying to avoid getting out period I do have a few questions if anyone has the same type masks... 1. Do you dispose of the filters EACH use after being in public? 2. How do you plan on keeping the car germ free? Seems to me, if you drive to the store, wear your mask, gloves, etc. then re-enter the car, aren't you exposing the inside of the car to the BF germs? OR do we have to walk when this hits? I know I'll have more questions but this is the mask post so will try and post the other questions in the correct forum. THANKS for the help and for being here! GOD Bless everyone! Sierra, living in the HOT desert of CA....
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Bart
Valued Member Joined: March 08 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Very good questions Sierra. i don't have the answers, but also like to hear if anyone knows..
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Sierra welcome to the board...please try the search feature in the top right hand corner of the screen and then enter n95 masks, there is a wealth of information from other posters on how they would handle their indivdual circumstances...not all of us will be able to do the same things..you would have to look at your unique set of circumstances... I will be on all day and when you sign back in I would be more then happy to help you collect information..please pm me if you would like some help... I personally have not stocked on masks(just some painters masks) and these are not highly recommended...as I live in gomerville some items are hard to get up here.... Muskrat |
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Sierra779
Valued Member Joined: March 16 2006 Location: N. California Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Thanks for the welcome! I'm so glad I found this forum! Actually I found it by accident..heard a blerp on the news and decided to google BF and found this site...my curly hair turned straight after reading some posts that freaked me out
FORGIVE me MUSKRAT if I get off topic below .... From what I've learned, masks should be disposed of period. You can't reuse them IF you want them to be stable as purchased. I suppose you could lightly spray them with the bleach water solution but that's very iffy! I am glad I purchased respirators that are reusable with filters but will still purchase the disposables for 'just in case'. We may not have enough filters or they also may be hard to find. All of this has been a learning experience and not a pleasant one for sure! I can't believe how many people just are ignoring all the warnings! The problems I have with people like this is that they will just spead this virus. We got our shots on Friday...Sat was a bit rough a few hours but all in all I 'm glad we did and hope everyone that can will get the shot! With the right masks, food storage, emergency supplies, etc. maybe we can get through this till they can make a vaccine against this killer. OFF topic but.... Please remember SKIN...skin is your first line of defense! Cracked, dry skin makes it easy for germs to enter your blood system. Being an esthetician I see infections all the time that could have been avoided by just taking care of skin! You can wear all the masks you want but if your face is all dried out or has tiny scrapes and cuts, it's unlikely the mask will do much good...so please add whatever skin care products you use to your emergency care products!!!!! Remember your hands and arms as well. In a pinch, you can use any of your oils that you use for cooking as well...even crisco I can't tell you how important this is and will be!!! Happy to answer any skin related questions but I guess you have to email me because I don't know which forum would be the right place to discuss this issue... |
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ozjohn
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 27 2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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I intend to use a pump spray bottle of methylated spirit to spray the used mask, and then allow it to dry naturally.
I have no idea if this is a perfect solution, but I guess it is better than nothing.
Ozjohn
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Scout motto - "Be Prepared"
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I think anita has the trenches covered in a hospital setting please let her voice her opinion.....Pulmonary care is a specialized area so I would suggest she knows what she it talking about........let her talk might enlighten a few of us.
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Legacy
Valued Member Location: Ohio Joined: April 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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I purchased 50 tie-on surgical masks (moisture proof and very inexpensive) to wear over my N95. I've read a couple of places in this forum that, in a pinch, this can extend somewhat the life of the N95. Any thoughts?
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I do everything my Rice Crispies tell me to....
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Yes, they can, mainly by providing a first line covering against
droplets. The practice of double masking was common during sars
outbreak, mainly where full suits or full face masks were not used. But
1) breathing resistance and uncomfort are increased (train to wear your
N95 + surg mask for 3 hours, you will understand), and anyway you have
to rightly don/undon your tie on surg mask. Eyes are in fact in first
line exposed to contamination.
I have topost on my blog a pic of what is expeled when someone sneezes or coughs - instructive ... Anita RN pulm nurse |
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Legacy
Valued Member Location: Ohio Joined: April 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Yes, please do post that, Anita, And thank you for the info! When you day "properly don and remove" the surgical mask, do you mean using disposable gloves, etc? That is what I had planned. Also, I have safety goggles which seal around the eye area. I can just imagine how much fun it will be...trying to breathe through the 2 masks while trying to keep my goggles from fogging...yeesh!
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I do everything my Rice Crispies tell me to....
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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gloves yes; or proper handwashing; untie the surg mask without touching
the filtering part, and so on ! fun not so much - have not time topost
again the tales of Sars nurses ... To another time !
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bil1956
advanced Member Joined: May 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/panflu/news/apr2806masks.html
You can check here for info on reusing masks
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nettie4263
Adviser Group Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 158 |
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If I begin to run short, I plan to hang them in a closet for a week, so the virus can die. I also have surgical masks to wear over my n95's.
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http://www.nap.edu/catalog/11637.html#toc
Link to an article about the reusability of face masks. You can read it online (scroll down)
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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nettie hanging them will do nothing; either you discard, either you get
reusable (silicone/rubber face piece) masks. Not the same as for
dusting house or working with cement ...
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Legacy
Valued Member Location: Ohio Joined: April 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Bonjour again, Anita. What type of reusable mask do you recommend, and what is the procedure for cleaning the mask, if you don't mind?
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I do everything my Rice Crispies tell me to....
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nettie4263
Adviser Group Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 158 |
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Anita, why wouldn't any influenza virus trapped in the mask die after a week? I realize there would still be some dust and debris trapped; as I said this would be a last resort plan. I realize it's not ideal.
Thanks.
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Nettie ...
1) Not only viruses but other strains of the surinfection if you have faced an infectious person. 2)The life of a virus iis somehow more intricated. Remember that the virus alone is nothing, it is always "trapped" in a cell ... 3) Surface contamination when wearing or removing the mask is too a concern |
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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Legacy ... reusable are half face masks or full face masks (or hoods),
most time of silicone or rubber or some waterproof/airproof material. A
removable filtering device is attached to the mask, which can be reused
or discarded; the mask/hood itself must be cleaned and decotaminated
before any further use, but lwill last for months or years. The
solution used to decontaminate and clean depends on the material
of the mask, but are not a big concern to find.
I try to post something on my site but have very few time left. Regards Anita |
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Anita, where is your website?
That National Academic of Sciences study on reuse of respirators is loaded with information about their reuse. Read the sections published in full online. See http://darwin.nap.edu/openbook/0309101824/html/45.html
They are recommended not reusing assuming a) you have some alternative b) considering the manufacturers don't want the legal liability of telling you how useful they might be after the first wear c) the FDA which licenses these devices requires that for reuse, one of the requirements should be "4. After reprocessing the device must still meet the established performance specifications of the original device, after n number of times of repeated reprocessing.". Now if you run a manufacturer of these respirators, do you want to reassure people with very limited evidence, and no control over how people use their masks, or how they try to disinfect them, that they will be safe to use for 3 times with certain disinfection procedures? Read the whole report linked above and you will find lots of clues. Dryness and strong sunlight kill most viruses in a few days, UV designed for the purpose does a quicker job, but is more damaging to materials like elastic. Read up, buy what you can, use surgical masks over the N95's use them only when you need them, like in a supermarket, not driving down the street.
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AnitaRNpulmo
V.I.P. Member Joined: January 02 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 82 |
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I have uploaded new pages to my blog, but lot is to be done yet : other
PPE pages, lonks, tips, commentaries; for the next days / week !
Regards Anita RNpulm nurse Avian Flu Personal Protection
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I have limited N-95 masks also. My plan is to hang gallon size baggies on the arbor by the dining door, remove mask before entering, place them in the baggie, spray with disinfectant, seal and reuse when I have no choice. I hope the disinfectant and the sun will have rendered it safe or the pandemic will be over when I open the bags.
Good luck to all.
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