Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Ebola - droplet transmission is airborne |
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Yes - when pigs are infected because it infects their lungs and causes them to cough and sneeze as a primary symptom. Nobody's disputing that it took place in that particular study under extremely advantageous conditions for viral transmission, but it wasn't humans. Different species, different symptoms. Med - nobody's trying to pick a fight with you, but you're quoting experiments with pigs and trying to extrapolate that directly to humans. That's not science - it's conjecture. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Satori
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Dallas Officials Looking For Missing "Low Risk" Potential Ebola Patient As CDC 'Almost' Admit Ebola Is Airborne according to Frieden of the CDC ""There are certainly theoretical situations where someone sneezes... and you touch your eyes or mouth or nose," and catch the virus from any transmitted particles, he said. "[But] realistically you can say what may be theoretically possible as opposed to what actually happens in the real world," he added." title of article is misleading but it does represent what the public understands "airborne" to mean however this is an important admission by the CDC but as usual they're still hedging |
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Medclinician2013
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We were discussing this, this morning and this is classic .gov thing of splitting hairs in a definition, while Ebola can spread through air. Whether you want to say it is airborne or not - it can be transmitted without touching by a sneeze.
A friend and I also talked about the argument of what bullet caliber is used to shoot someone as opposed to the fact they are dead on the floor in a pool of blood. How relevant is it? Ebola is very contagious. You can post a hundred threads and a hundred doctors swearing it cannot be caught from a sneeze and people will be sneezing and catching it and it may being making its way across Europe soon. Medclinician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Johnray1
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Med,I agree.John
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Medclinician2013
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It is not only airborne- it has also be weaponized.
http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2014/10/health-alert-ebola-is-airborne-video-2552384.html Confirmation... Published on Oct 8, 2014
Evidence now suggests the NBC cameraman contracted Ebola via airborne exposure as did the Spanish nurse. In this clip Dr. Rima Laibow CONFIRMS that Ebola is not only airborne but it is weaponized. It is real. It is patented and it can spread in colder climates. Medclinclician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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One of the doctors has said the nurse told him she touched her face with her gloves after caring for the priest.
Beforeitsnews is not exactly the most reliable source, Med. They just published a story about a retired soldier who claims to have spent 17 years battling aliens on Mars. http://m.thelocal.es/20141008/nurse-with-ebola-touched-face-with-gloves-teresa-romero-spain-madrid |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Germ Nerdier
Valued Member Joined: September 20 2014 Status: Offline Points: 3380 |
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It was 16 years.
All this mis-information has got to stop.
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WillobyBrat
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What does he mean he was on Mars? I never saw him in the PX!
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I like Ike
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Kilt2
Adviser Group Joined: December 17 2007 Status: Offline Points: 7414 |
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Ebola has a RO of 2
Get a grip - nothing to worry about unless you are an African that does weird things with corpses. I mean seriously washing a body dead from Ebola and then drinking the water is so stupid. We don't do that so it wont spread much here or there like in Africa.
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And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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onefluover
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Earth years or Mars years?
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"And then there were none."
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I knew something didn't seem right with that story.
Good point |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Medclinician2013
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no had touched the fact we may have made the virus as a weapon. Any comments on that. |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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With all due respect, I have a hard time with that one, Med. If it is
man made, they did a pretty crappy job because it's not exactly flying
around the globe - any seasonal cold or flu virus would have left it in
the dust by now. Chuck has mentioned that Soviet scientists tried and
failed to weaponize Ebola back during the cold war, and granted
technology has come a long way since then, but that doesn't explain why
it's been almost exclusively grounded in West Africa since December. I
don't want to minimize the truly horrific loss of life in Africa in any way, but in
the grand scheme of things it's still a localized epidemic in three
small countries with a handful of isolated cases outside of Africa.
Weaponized Ebola conjures up an image of something with a much bigger
reach than we've seen this virus demonstrate so far, especially in light
of the ease with which Nigeria and Senegal apparently managed to stop
it within their borders.
To put it in perspective, this is Texas in comparison to the size of the region affected. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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arirish
Admin Group Joined: June 19 2013 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 39215 |
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"any seasonal cold or flu virus would have left it in the dust by now"
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Buy more ammo!
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Germ Nerdier
Valued Member Joined: September 20 2014 Status: Offline Points: 3380 |
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Who's up for a novel co-infection? Eboluenza? Okie.. I'll shup now
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I had that once. The worst part was not being able to pronounce it.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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arirish
Admin Group Joined: June 19 2013 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 39215 |
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GN- Sounds like a bad movie plot! Scarier than Sharknado!
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Buy more ammo!
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Germ Nerdier
Valued Member Joined: September 20 2014 Status: Offline Points: 3380 |
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JD,
It's pronounced "pffftt" ;) arirish, I saw that movie! Well not quite. I tried to watch it.. think I made it to the scene where the bar is destroyed. |
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Medclinician2013
Valued Member Joined: September 17 2013 Location: Carmel Status: Offline Points: 9020 |
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Let's pronounce it CDC has admitted Ebola may be airborne.
http://theantimedia.org/cdc-admits-ebola-airborne/ According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Tom Frieden, the Ebola virus might be airborne. “It’s the single greatest concern I’ve ever had in my 40-year Experts are increasingly expressing fears that the Ebola virus can spread through droplets suspended in the air. This would explain the unprecedented increase in the number of Ebola cases in 2014. You probably didn’t hear about it on the corporate news, but a little less than 2 months ago the CDC updated their criteria for Ebola transmission to include “being within 3 feet” or “in the same room” as someone infected with the virus. comment: the CDC updated their criteria for Ebola transmission to include “being within 3 feet” or “in the same room” as someone infected with the virus. A study conducted in 2012 showed the Ebola virus was able to travel between pigs and monkeys that were in separate cages and never placed in direct contact. Dr. Gary Kobinger, from the National Microbiology Laboratory at the Public Health Agency of Canada, told BBC News nearly two years ago that he believed Ebola was spread by droplets suspended in the air. “What we suspect is happening is large droplets; they can stay in the air, but not long; they don’t go far,” he explained. “But they can be absorbed in the airway, and this is how the infection starts, and this is what we think, because we saw a lot of evidence in the lungs of the non-human primates that the virus got in that way.” This strain of Ebola is not Ebola Zaire. This is a new strain. According to the CDC, this virus is genetically 97% similar to the Zaire strain. I don’t know about you, but my DNA is 97% similar to orangutans. comment: So, as I have been saying for months, these definition things do not solve the issue that it can be transmitted by a sneeze or by someone in the same room. This would include a hospital ER waiting room. When the head of the CDC begins modifying his statements, one can only imagine the real facts and realities of this behind the media spin. Saying over and over, well if it was really that contagious and lethal people would be dropping in the streets... it is only just got out of Africa and looking at how well it is spreading in Africa, there are many places in the world where the sanitation and health care is not that much better. If we have a new variant which does better in cold weather as opposed to the tropics where the heat actually slows the spread of the new strain down, we are going to see it moving through Europe and colder climates. There are certainly issues or statements one would rather not be right about, and this is certainly one of them. An Ebola which even can spread to someone 3 feet from you can do a lot of infecting in buses and anywhere people are standing close... i.e. India - or Mecca. This definitely pushes us to truly begin preparing for a host of new diseases and as we begin a new Flu season. "Don't Panic, Prepare." Do begin reading here and other places and learn how to deal with situations of no water, no power, and no medical help of any kind when you may be on your own. I do thank the people who are helping me gather more information which will be coming out soon to you. When the head of CDC and WHO begin issuing more disturbing statements, you know it is the tip of the iceberg. Currently the mainstream media is neither reliable or consistent and totally misreported the death of the gentleman in Texas stating when he was deceased he was still alive. Israel reported the death and unfortunately the media outside the U.S. is often out there with the facts much quicker. The numbers being reported as far as cases and deaths are not accurate. They are based on very limited tests and even some of those tests are giving us false negatives. Day by day- for the REAL news- where and if you can find it. Medclinician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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jacksdad
Executive Admin Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I'd like to double dog dare it not airborne, but it doesn't quite work that way, Med. Nice try, though. And the pigs again? Really? And there is a huge difference between transmitting by a sneeze at close quarters, and infecting everyone in a room. A layman might be forgiven for muddying the rather broad distinction between airborne (respiratory) and droplet (contact) transmission, but I know you're smarter than that, Med. I respect your opinion and I'm not trying to pick a fight or stifle discussion, but I think you're conveniently reading things into the same flawed science (yep - the pigs/monkeys, and Reston). |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Satori
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Med thanks for the post I'm not gonna get into the whole air borne angels head pin thing "IN THE SAME ROOM" tells me all I need to know about how easily this stuff spreads "IN THE SAME ROOM" DAMN !!!!!! glad the CDC is finally coming around |
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Satori
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Ebola Expert: Virus May Soon Go Airborne http://www.prisonplanet.com/ebola-expert-virus-may-soon-go-airborne.html watch the brief video from ebola expert |
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Satori
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not gonna wade in on the whole air borne/droplet thingy but this article brings up some interesting points Medical Research Org CIDRAP: Ebola Transmittable by Air http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/10/14/CIDRAP-Confirms-Ebola-Transmittable-by-Air "However, the US National Institutes of Health reported in 2005 that 50% of bio-aerosols were found to be less than 5 microns in diameter. The NIH calculated that after correcting for dead space and lung deposition, “N95 filtering facepiece respirators seem inadequate against microorganisms.” |
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guest
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www.prisonplanet.com ----- That sounds like a trustworthy source!!!!
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Satori
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once again they are merely the messenger the question is is the story accurate? personally speaking I dont care who delivers it 2+2 still equals 4 whether an angel says it or the devil |
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Medclinician2013
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10/15/14
All sources and people considered considering the likely spread of Ebola to millions of people, even with the denials it is airborne, the odds continue to increase it will be. This, is of course, the worse scenario - one our global medical system cannot handle, the infrastucture, or our society. The denials are getting weaker in terms of what will happen when there are more cases and more mutations. The CDC has stated there is a risk and despite denials, are isolating people and containing the air. The standard precautions including the masks used for health care workers do not keep them from catching this. This is illustrated by what few are reported. Also Ebola is outside of West Africa now. Lately, I have been talking to much more conservative people, including those who either are in or involved with the system, the monitoring, and far more than just google news reports. It is unfair not to warn people they should prepare and many of the main media are misreporting dates and facts about Ebola. I am told that the "street smart" and those living in the South and used to some pretty harsh winters. To be continued |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Satori
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and when you see a group like DOctors Without Borders so seriously affected some alarm bells should be going off these guys are WELL experienced working in Africa and with ebola 16 from Doctors Without Borders have Ebola and you make a very good point about the denials getting weaker I have noticed that too the evidence is mounting that something is different this time around |
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leothelion
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZC27IQ037I
check this out as we need to do something!!
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Satori
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and the chorus is growing Doctor: Ebola Might Be Transmitted In Air Via “Droplets” http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/10/15/doctor-ebola-might-be-transmitted-by-air/ "The executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons says that despite what the CDC is saying, Ebola might be transmitted by breathing. "Dr. Orient says that when an aerosol dries up, droplet nuclei remain suspended in the air for a long time. A recent research study suggests that Ebola could remain infectious in an aerosol for more than an hour." "The droplets are “just too small” to be captured by standard medical masks, says Dr. Orient. A possible solution? Powered, air-purifying respirators for healthcare workers." your kidding me right ??? "“First, Ebola is not spread through the air like the flu,” said President Obama. “You cannot get it from casual contact like sitting next to someone on a bus.” Frieden here PROVES his incompetence by vetting Obama's erroneous remarks and I am certainly no expert on infectious diseases BUT I have been saying this for a long time "Dr. Orient also takes issue with the CDC’s conclusion that a person is not infectious until symptoms are present." |
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Medclinician2013
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Ebola is partially airborne. Although there are dozens of threads, it can be spread by a cough and much of what is on the media is not accurate.
There is no Ebola hysteria. Perhaps in the press they are beating to death a few cases, but the overall public still do not seem to exhibit any reaction to an epidemic which does not exist in the U.S. Money is being made on this scare and even the president is grandstanding and making comments which are completely inacccurate. The back and forth argument of whether this is airborne is academic. It is partially airborne, just not weaponized. We can beat this subject to death, but if it were really spreadable it would be all over. So for once, I will be the conservative voice. Obviously, it is mutating at records rates. Over 300x and it could go very airborne no matter who says what. It could. If there was hysteria there would be long lines at the supermarkets, stocks would be crashing, and people would be dead n the streets like they are in West Africa. We rarely touch and bury our own dead. This is not, for the most part a wet tropical country with bad santiation and few medical resourcdes. Sadly, it is not Ebola that is even the main problem, though it is very lethal i.e. 52-70%. It is D68 which is sweeping across America like wildfire. Ebola can be passed by a sneeze or a kiss. Doing a Lady Diana trick like hugging an HIV patient proves nothing. It can spread on a plane or cruise ship or they would not be taking precautions now for 46 DAYS (not 23) as the incubation period. Can it spread before there are symptoms? It is possible. http://www.naturalnews.com/047267_Ebola_outbreak_incubation_period_viral_transmission.html that's right - NaturalNews) A jaw-dropping report released by the World Health Organization on October 14, 2014 reveals that 1 in 20 Ebola infections has an incubation period longer than the 21 days which has been repeatedly claimed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. CDC's credibility is suffering a worse hit that than the current administration or even congress or the Health Care Disaster Plan. Many things states as absoute are false. Blatantly false. This is not Tin Hat. We don't have to go to Alex (the shiniest hat in the bunch) to find blaring errors and mess ups in the treatment and handling of Ebola. Yet, I have been asked imho - is this going to go Pandemic or even epidemic. Well, for starters, compared to the misinformation that is out there, I can at least put out a little more realistic idea. It could... and if it does- we are in big trouble. Hysteria- try prepping instead - Don't Panic - Prepare. You don't have to lose your God given common sense about this. Ebola is a threat in America. Anyone who tell you it is not is lying. Yet, right now it has not mutated enough to wipe us out. We need to stay on this? In a day it could change. It really could to true airborne. Forget the line of doctors and health experts. Viruses make their own rules and we certainly don't understand even half of them of what they can and cannot do. Personally, I will stay on top of this no matter who says what. They are cleaning aircraft and cruise ships like it is airborne or at least highly contagious. They are putting patient in air isolation whether are not they will say it is airborne. There are opinions and there are realities. It can be spread by a cough. It can be spread by a kiss. And you can get it if you are 3 feet away from another person long enough. Reality. Medclinician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Medclinician2013
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A doctor in New York City who recently returned from treating Ebola patients in Guinea became the first person in the city to test positive for the virus Thursday, setting off a search for anyone who might have come into contact with him. The doctor, Craig Spencer, was rushed to Bellevue Hospital Center and placed in isolation at the same time as investigators sought to retrace every step he had taken over the past several days. At least three people he had contact with in recent days have been placed in isolation. The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which dispatched a team to New York, is conducting its own test to confirm the positive test on Thursday, which was performed by a city lab. While officials have said they expected isolated cases of the disease to arrive in New York eventually, and had been preparing for this moment for months, the first case highlighted the challenges involved in containing the virus, especially in a crowded metropolis. Dr. Spencer, 33, had traveled on the A and L subway lines Wednesday night, visited a bowling alley in Williamsburg, and then took a taxi back to Manhattan. comment: The question is now that it is in New York and people were exposed in the plane as well before he got to the hospital - can this be contained and as it continues to be diagnosed outside of West Africa- will it mutate into an airborne virus.Medclinician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Satori
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CDC Finally Admits that Ebola Can Float through the Air … 3 Feet http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/cdc-finally-gets-right-ebola-spreads-aerosols-3-feet.html "Meryl Nass, M.D. – a board-certified internist and a biological warfare epidemiologist and expert in anthrax - comments: the CDC a day late and a dollar short as usual... |
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Satori
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EBOLA Is AEROSTABLE & May Infect Sewer Systems, Says U.S. Army |
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CRS, DrPH
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No. Viruses don't work that way. AIDS won't mutate into an airborne virus, rabies won't, Herpes won't, and Ebola won't either. On the other hand, influenza won't suddenly mutate into a contact transmission virus either. It takes millions of years for viruses to become what we presently experience. While Ebola is undergoing an unprecedented number of mutations in the human physiology, I don't see it mutating into an entirely new form. However, it may become "comfortable" with the human organism, as HIV AIDS has done, leading to some people carrying a potentially lethal virus around. That would be "interesting" and far worse than any airborne mutation.
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CRS, DrPH
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Satori
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CDC Says Ebola Droplets Can Only Travel 3 Feet … But MIT Research Shows Sneezes Can Travel Up to 20 Feet |
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CRS, DrPH
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Sneezing a pathogen is not "airborne" in the medical sense. To qualify as an airborne pathogen, the pathogen must transmit by droplet nuclei, and this is not proven for Ebola, nor is it the routine transmission route for this pathogen. An HIV patient could transmit AIDS if they sneezed blood, but this would be a rare event. |
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CRS, DrPH
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Medclinician2013
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Once again, we let definitions weaken the reality that Ebola can be spread by a sneeze. Now, if .gov or medical authorities want to say a sneeze is not defined as airborne DOES IT MATTER?
We live under a legal lawyer mindset administration. We are not in court. We are in the jungles and lethal terrain of West Africa where Ebola is bad. Despite the fact we do not personally touch our dead or grab a shovel and lower the bodies into the graves, touching, sneezing, and being next to people in a waiting room or sharing the bathroom can infect people. This not a .01% fatality flu which is "annoying" and won't kill people, this is Ebola which kills more people than survive. If this bug, virus, ... pathogen is allowed in the U.S. and even brought here on purpose we will see it spread. We can put up droplet charts until it has spread to every state in the U.S. and our medical system has been proved unable to handle or treat these patients. Extraordinary methods are being used - blood transfusions - experimental methods which will not be available to common citizens if this spreads. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/10/17/the-debate-is-over-ebola-virus-is-airborne/ The doctor here states Oh, and by the way, CDC is lying about every aspect of this disease. It is, in fact, according to a Special Report of the US Army Research Institute on Infectious Diseases (posted on my website) as easily transmitted by droplets as the flu but, unlike the flu, can infect every cell of the body, not just the respiratory tract. comment: Just presenting both sides of the issue and not just another chart. We need to wake up and smell the coffee. There is not an agenda here. There is an attempt to bypass a mountain of generated garbage on the Google engine of pure fiction being advanced as scientific fact. Ebola is a threat to America and it can be passed through air. Whether it fits the military definition of airborne is a moot point. It will spread. Medclinician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Satori
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well said Med
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Satori
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Top Experts Agree: Ebola Can Spread Via Aerosols http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/top-experts-agree-ebola-can-spread-via-aerosols.html A study by a British government defense lab found: " |
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Medclinician2013
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http://nypost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-pulls-poster-saying-ebola-can-spread-through-a-sneeze/
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control on Thursday yanked a poster off its Web site explaining how Ebola can be spread by contaminated droplets — from a sneeze for example — a day after The Post reported on the frightening revelation. The fact sheet was taken off line, and a link that led to it a day before now sends viewers to a different page with a different message. “The ’What’s the difference between infections spread through air or by droplets?’ fact sheet is being updated and is currently unavailable. Please visit cdc.gov/Ebola for up-to-date information on Ebola,” it read Thursday. Officials with the CDC remained mum on the issue, refusing to respond to questions for the original story and again on Thursday. comment: Ebola can be transmitted by a sneeze and now they know it. It is just a matter of time before it spreads through the U.S. Medclinician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Satori
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up to 6 feet wow the CDC is coming right along CDC Now Says Ebola Droplets Can Spread Six Feet, Not Three |
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Medclinician2013
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As the reports of ebola and test grind to a halt in terms of reporting in the U.S. media - Ebola is outside of West Africa. The debate as to what is airborne is even losing ground in terms of what the CDC knows internally versus what is being allowed. It can be spread by a sneeze. Now we begin a new phase - which could possibly be the start of the next Pandemic - the spread of Ebola around the world. Medclinician |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Technophobe
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I still do not believe the airborne hype, but 6 feet is too small a distance in hospital settings. Indoors, with controlled temperature, humidity and no untraviolet, droplet transmission could cover much further than 6 feet.
That would go for a mall as well. |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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Medclinician2013
Valued Member Joined: September 17 2013 Location: Carmel Status: Offline Points: 9020 |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Satori
Valued Member Joined: June 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 28655 |
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What happens when you sneeze on an airplane http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2014/11/05/what-happens-when-sneeze-on-airplane/ |
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