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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

H5N8 in 55 dogs
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 02 2015 at 1:41am
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-02/02/c_133964092.htm 

So far in 2014-15 antibodies against a H5N8-virusinfection has been detected in 55 dogs in South Korea. 

Two remarks:

1. How many dogs are not detected simply because they are not tested ?

2. What about wolves, foxes etc that live in the wild and may eat infected birds/food ? 

H5N8 might be slowly spreading in mammals. More testing is needed. 
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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This has been a concern of mine for a while... since I learned that H5N1 can transmit to/be carried by cats & dogs. I hadn't heard either way if H5N8 or the new H5N2 could be - but suspected as much.

If domestic dogs can carry, my gut says wild canines can/will as well. Ditto for the cats...esp considering that zoos have put down big cats with AI!

So since it seems every country in the world has a 'total cull' policy on all birds/mammals (excluding us 'superior humans' of course!) that can catch or carry this.... anyone willing to bet on how long it will before the men in white space suits come onto your farm and just automatically cull your livestock guardian dog(s), pet dogs, barn/house cats, your pet budgie (already being done) and of course, we can't forget our horses or our pigs - can we?!?!?! Because ONE chicken tested positive.

Sorry, if I sound sarcastic - butseriously getting tired of hearing how millions of birds (and hundreds of animals) are being slaughtered...
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Points: 95367 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2015 at 11:05pm
Would less intensive farming be an alternative ? Not chickenfarms with +100.000 birds but small scale and more room for a better life ? The Netherlandsis agriculture-exporter #2 (US=1) in the world. Producing food near were the food is eaten would make some sense (less transport but also less importbans if there is a virus infection).

Birdflu in other animals without symptoms is a big problem. Would it be thinkable that a birdflu-virus turns up in fish that is eaten without cooking ? 

The "total cull"strategy is not working when you look at present developments. You can not kill all wild birds !
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Well this is a first. 
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Points: 14913 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 10:27am
They eat dogs and cats over there. I know when my dad was in the military years ago he was stationed over there a couple of times and he said dog and cat meat was one of the foods that everyone over there eats.
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Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

Well this is a first. 


Yes, a first for the H5N8, I've been wondering what would happen to dogs/cats with both the (HP) N8 and N2 that we now have here in North America. Since what makes it different then previous strains is the new 'eurasian' twist to it.

I know that H5N1 has been shown to be carried in both, not sure 'which' sub-strain of N1 though, as in Asia it kills ppl and in US the press releases say the version here doesn't??

I thought that was the point of the various letters/numbers to show the various strains but too many mutated sub-strains I guess that all get classed together.
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Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

Would less intensive farming be an alternative ? Not chickenfarms with +100.000 birds but small scale and more room for a better life ? The Netherlandsis agriculture-exporter #2 (US=1) in the world. Producing food near were the food is eaten would make some sense (less transport but also less importbans if there is a virus infection).

Birdflu in other animals without symptoms is a big problem. Would it be thinkable that a birdflu-virus turns up in fish that is eaten without cooking ? 

The "total cull"strategy is not working when you look at present developments. You can not kill all wild birds !



Yes, I believe less intensive, more natural rearing and possibly even letting these flu's run their course (or at least Low Paths run their course) may be the only way these birds can ever develop immunity. Obviously SOME wild birds survive and carry on - or it wouldn't be spreading. So maybe we lose 20 or 50 or 90% of our flock...but some survive and are immune. Two questions are how long are they 'carriers' (shedders) and do they pass either the disease of the immunity (or both) vertically to chicks/poults etc. We know that ppl under artificial (fluorescent) lighting and with highly processed diets aren't the best fitness, condition or immunity wise - why do we think that birds are any different?

The more I read the more ridiculous the whole 'total cull' thing is... so if we cull all poultry, pigs (swine flu), dogs/cats, horses (don't forget the Spanish flu), sheep (hoof & mouth), cows/elk/deer/bison etc (mad cow, TB, chronic wasting disease) etc etc etc - ppl better hope and pray that no rabbit or rat (oh wait...if mice can carry AI so can rats!) plagues come along or we'll ALL be vegetarians - Whether we want to be or not!

Sorry - absolutely no idea on the fish question...
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 At this rate we will have to start worm farms to get protien.Confused
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Points: 95367 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2015 at 11:30pm
An article about "fish flu"; Infectious Salmon Anemia Virus (ISAV) http://www.nist.gov/mml/bmd/fishflu-110811.cfm 

I want to know more about H5N8 in other species then birds. So I will try to find out more (if I can find time).
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When my husband was in Subic Bay (Philippines), he was invited to a friend's home up in the mountains (very rural area).    At dinner, they served a meat-vegetable dish.  Husband asked what kind of meat it was, and the answer was "it's good."

And that is about as specific as it was going to get.
"WE ARE ONLY SEEING THE EARS OF THE HIPPO"
--Dr. David Jambai (Head of Sierra Leone's Disease and Prevention Control)
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Where poultry are housed in cages sometimes not large enough for the chicken to turn around (in the US, it is getting better, but I can't speak for the rest of the world), such intense poultry production will produce a huge outbreak.  Infection of one bird is going to spread like wildfire.  Hence, the mass slaughter of barns full of poultry.
"WE ARE ONLY SEEING THE EARS OF THE HIPPO"
--Dr. David Jambai (Head of Sierra Leone's Disease and Prevention Control)
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Any indication yet whether dogs can transmit the virus on ?   Or are they just incidental hosts, dead end hosts. Hope they are not amplifying hosts, canine flu factories, wouldn't want one of those licking my face.
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http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/Factsheets/pdfs/canine_influenza.pdf

 Page 6 of this report says there isn't a case but it is not impossible.
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Points: 95367 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2015 at 11:42pm
Thank you Kay for the Iowa state university factsheet of june 2014 on canine flu. In short the factsheet focusses on H3N2 in East Asia and H3N8 in the US. Timespan is 1990 to (early) 2014. It also mentions a list of other fluvirus found in dogs (and sometimes cats) (H3N1, H5N1, H9N2 etc)

Complications in finding fluvirus in pets might be lack of symptoms or co-infections. Also people do not bring their pets to a vet fast and even when the pet ends up with a doctor fluvirus is not the thing they might be checked on. 

The way people treat their pet has changed a lot the last 20-30 years. Pets are familymembers with good healthcare (clothing, insurance etc). Therefor pets get older and stay more active longer. 

I think it would be a good idea if vets would check pets if a person in the household gets a (flu)virus. The present H3N2 virus could be both in people and in pets but overlooked in pets !

The H5N8 in South Korean dogs might just be the tip of the iceberg. 
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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