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Does the Pope read the Bible?

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OriginalHappyCamper View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 30 2015 at 9:37am

REPORT: ‘FRANCIS EFFECT’ PROMPTS SIX IN TEN AMERICAN CATHOLICS TO SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE

Leviticus 20:12-14King James Version (KJV)

12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.


Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2015 at 11:15am
I don't think anyone with a sane mind actually reads the bible and take it literally.

If you read the bible (i have) there is some very wicked stuff through out which doesn't match this day and age. Things such as slavery, rape and murder. 

Grabbing one part and saying this is what the bible represents is just dumb. 

Here i'll pick a quote:

(Zechariah 14:1-2 )
 
    Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst.  And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city

So god himself encouraging forceful rape.

Here's another good one:

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.. 

NUFF SAID
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jen147 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2015 at 1:18pm
I moved this thread to Off Topic, thank you for understanding!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2015 at 5:38pm
Sorry lets bring this back on topic..

Plague...

(Numbers 16:41-49)

God kills 14,000 people for complaining that God keeps killing them.
The Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them

Let's all blame god for Ebola, and while we at it, the gays and hemorrhoids.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2015 at 1:12pm
Cobber said - Let's all blame god for Ebola, and while we at it, the gays and hemorrhoids.
Buy more ammo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2015 at 6:41am
lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2015 at 12:25pm



Pope Francis’s pastoral letter for the Year of Mercy, indicating that priestsmay absolve those who procure abortions, does nothing to change Catholic church policy with regards to how abortion is viewed. Current canonical law states that abortion is a grave sin


Definition of absolve to ​officially ​remove ​guilt or ​responsibility for something ​wrong that someone has done or might have done:
Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?


Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2015 at 3:38pm
John 20-22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 10:24am
Jesus very clearly gave power to forgive sins to his Apostles.   Do YOU read the bible?   Did you know the Catholic Church preexisted the bible?   Without the Catholic Church the world would not have the new testament.  Catholics wrote the bible and canonized it in 393AD.

Stop being hateful!   And in particular stop using your religious fervor and hiding behind a "loving" god as an excuse for being so hateful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 10:39am
I disagree with OriginalHappyCamper on several issues here, just like you.  But, he is not accusing anyone of being "hateful".  You are, Deep Thinker.

Please feel free to argue DT, just be polite with it.  I am rather fond of OHC.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 10:50am
Technophobe..... I am not saying others are accusing him of being  hateful.

I AM saying it.   The comments are hateful.  How do you call a religious leader blasphemous and it not hateful?  Why are Catholics/the Pope one of the last few groups in society that it is still okay to attack?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 12:06pm
DT,  I am a pagan.  As such I am not a believer in the word of the bible (Though I am familiar with all of it as comparative religeon and I find a a wealth of wisdom and love in it.).  OHC is a nice guy.  He accepts me for what I am, although my faith is alien to him.  He is far less judgemental than you think.   

I do not want to start a fight here.  All paths go to the same place in the end and God(ess) is not judgemental.  NOT ONE SINGLE BIT ("Judge not and ye shall not be judged").

BUT, please be polite.  My friend OHC is not being nasty.  He simply has a strong faith.  It may not synchronise with your faith, it does not with mine, but that is his path to God and who am I to criticize another's faith?  He does not insult mine.

I could ramble on for hours here.  I probably have far more in common with your views than OHC's.  I just beg you for a little understanding.  So, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE Keep it polite, avoid being personal and try to see the other's viewpoint.  He does, I do and so can you.


How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 12:36pm
I have heard so much crap born of superstitious bs from all religeons including my own (I am a pagan) that it really hacks me off, for instance: a woman gets raped for one reason or another the baby will be born sub human in one way or another.   The woman will die in the process of giving birth and Oh God forgive the man that raped her, but if she seeks an abortion it would be a crime against God and nature and should never be allowed.,  A child is dying and can be saved by a blood transfusion but it is a mortal sin to ingest blood.  Love thy neighbor, but do not allow genetic engineering which will save him and millions of people and do away with loads of genetic diseases because it will go against nature and the will of God.  My son with his brain tumour and his autisim could have been saved by quick intervention of genetic engineering techniques, that are not natural so are against the will of God.   Thank you all! 

Well, if that is God's attitude let him come and face me, man to man and we will see if the SOB can walk away afterwards.  I am sorry to all you well meaning people out there who are full of the glorious wonder of God, but if that is how he really behaved, you could shove it where the sun does not shine.

I died in hospital for 47 minutes.  I met your God, my God and everyone else's God and that God was full of the love that one feels as a child when you have grazed you knees and your mother cuddles you in her arms and kisses away the tears.  THAT IS GOD!  THE REAL GOD! And we, or rather the everlasting soul with in us, for want of a better term, are just the children of God. literally it's babies.  The universe is just a nest for the energy being, that big light that is God, to raise its children.  There is no hell, no punishment, no judgement, just love.  Ask anyone who has died under the anesthetic and returned.  They will tell you the same.  

Now grow up and love thy neighbor.  Write that in the Koran, Bible, Torah or whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 12:56pm
I can say this to you because you are Americans in the majority, and some others on a computer:  In this country it would probably land me in a lot of trouble.  This is why I will vote against remaining in the European Union and continue to my dying breath to extoll the virtue of applying to our great ally to become the 51st state of America.

I hope these comments will inspire conversation and not cause confrontation.

Bernard Lowell Bartram

God bless America
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 1:18pm
OrigionalHappyCamper, I am sorry if I offended  you.  I don't know you and I don't know your heart.  You may very well be a wonderful human being.

My comments where directed at what you said not you as a person.   I found the comments offensive and I feel I should be free to express my opinion.

As to everyone else here... if OHC comments had be directed towards another religious group,  I am sure many  people would have come to that groups defense and called out the comments as offensive, but since Catholics where the focus I guess it is okay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 8:11pm
 Deep Thinker wrote "Did you know the Catholic Church preexisted the bible?   Without the Catholic Church the world would not have the new testament.  Catholics wrote the bible and canonized it in 393AD."

I offer this for a rebuttal:

      The original manuscripts for the English Version of the King James Bible comes from the copies of the original lost manuscripts from the 2nd 4th and 5th centuries and are almost identical with these original text. There were approximately 1,900 of these manuscripts that were utilized to produce the King James Bible of 1611.

With the exception of the Catholic and Jesuit Bibles all other Bible produced before the 19th century utilized these manuscripts

The manuscripts used to develop the King James Version were translated into most languages of the world and agree in translation.

 

David Otis Fuller DD. Says That the King James version “carried the Received Text in Hebrew and Greek , precious manuscripts were preserved by such as the church at Pella in Palestine where Christians fled , when in 70 AD the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, by the Syrian Church of Antioch which produced eminent scholarship, by the Italic Church in Northern Italy and also at the same time by the Gallic Church in Southern France and by the Celtic Church in Great Britain; by the pre-Waldensian, the Waldensian and the churches of the Reformation.” So the original manuscripts came not from Rome but from the Middle East where the apostles preached.

 

      The original Douay Version, which is the foundation on which nearly all English Catholic versions are still based on, owed its existence to the religious controversies of the sixteenth century. The fact however, that the primary end was controversial explains the course adopted by the translators. In the first place they translated directly, not from the original Hebrew or Greek, but from the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome. This had been declared authoritative for Catholics by the Council of Trent; it was declared infallible by the Pope. This Bible was written to counter the teachings of the reformation, which is the birth place of the Protestant religions of today.




Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 8:49pm
The following is from Roman Catholic Publications

"Sins can be forgiven only through the Sacraments when duly administered; hence, it follows that both priests and Sacraments are the instruments which Christ makes use of to accomplish in us the pardon of sin and the grace of justification." Catechism of Trent, p. 115, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: "The Book of Obedience", Chapter 3: "The Sacraments Administered by the Priests Are Necessary for the Salvation of All Mankind").

"And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of his priest and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse to give absolution, provided the penitent is capable of it." St. Alphonsus De Liguori, in The Dignity of the Priesthood, p. 27.

This is an interesting doctrine, THAT GOD IS SUBJECT TO THE DECISIONS OF A MAN, that is not what the Bible Teaches.

1 John 1 King James Version (KJV

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

NO Where in the Bible does it indicate that a man on earth can forgive us our sins only God in Heaven can forgive us of our sins


Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 9:16pm
The following are from Roman Catholic Publications;
The Catholic Priest Has Power to Create His Creator! "...the power of the priest is the power of the divine person; for the transubstantiation of the bread requires as much power as the creation of the world....thus the priest may be called the creator of the Creator..." St. Alphonsus De Liguori, in The Dignity of the Priesthood, p 33.

 The Catholic Priest Has Power to Command Christ and He Must Obey!
 " Power of Consecrating: The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating. 'No act is greater,' says St. Thomas, 'than the consecration of the body of Christ.' In this essential phase of the sacred ministry, the power of the priest is not surpassed by that of the bishop, the archbishop, the cardinal or the pope. Indeed it is equal to that of Jesus Christ. For in this role the priest speaks with the voice and the authority of God Himself. When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of Consecration, he reaches up into heavens, brings Christ down from His throne, and places Him upon our altar to be offered up again as the victim for the sins of man. "It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperors: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim. Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. For, while the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time, the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man - not once but a thousand times! The priest speaks and lo! Christ the Eternal and Omnipotent God, bows His head in humble obedience to the priest’s command. "Of what sublime dignity is the office of the Christian priest who is thus privileged to act as the ambassador and the vicegerent of Christ on earth! He continues the essential ministry of Christ; he teaches the faithful with the authority of Christ, he pardons the penitent sinner with the power of Christ, he offers up again the same sacrifice of adoration and atonement which Christ offered on Calvary. No wonder that the name which spiritual writers are especially found of applying to the priest is that of 'alter Christus.' For the priest is and should be another Christ." Faith of Millions, by John O'Brien, Ph.D., LL.D., p 268-269 ("nihil obstat" by Rev. T. E. Dillon-Censor Librorum and "imprimatur" by John Francis Noll, D.D. -Bishop of Fort Wayne)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 10:37pm
OriginalHappyCamper

This sure seems like an odd place to have a bible debate but I think we can keep it civil.

Are you familiar with John 20:22-23?  If so I would love to hear how you interpret it.   From the Catholic perspective it is easily understood, I am genuinely curious how it is perceived from a non catholic point of view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2015 at 10:51pm
Original Happy Camper, I am sorry to inform you that GOD,JESUS CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT are not required to any Catholic Priest Commands or any Protestant Preachers commands. Theses beings are so powerful that we can not even image their power. That can and do respond to our commands when we are right and it is within the promises that they have made to us. But who is truly righteous?

So what are they required to do when we call on them? Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2015 at 3:01am
Spot on, JohnRay!  How are you, dear?
Thank you, Deep Thinker!
My own faith is a gnostic one.  I have no wish to get tied up in this as I am certain that every path leads to the center (- in the end.  Some have more signposts than others and some people walk the wrong way.).  But thank you all for being civil.  I am also certain that a loving parent does not want their children to fight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2015 at 4:19pm
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

Original Happy Camper, I am sorry to inform you that GOD,JESUS CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT are not required to any Catholic Priest Commands or any Protestant Preachers commands. Theses beings are so powerful that we can not even image their power. That can and do respond to our commands when we are right and it is within the promises that they have made to us. But who is truly righteous?

So what are they required to do when we call on them? Johnray1

Johnray  I understand that only God Can Forgive sin.  The point I was trying to make was that the Roman Catholic Church and DT indicate that the priest and the Pope can act as God on earth and forgive sin.  I quoted the Roman Catholic Churchs publications to show how they arrive at that doctrine that mortal man can forgive sin because they believe and  teach that the priest can bind God to their decisions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2015 at 4:30pm
Technophobe, I guess that I am doing O.K. But I have already learned that I do not like living alone.

As far as a loving parent not wanting there child to fight. I am not sure about that. I believe that many people are put here to not fight,but I think that some of us were put here to fight,but at the right times.Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2015 at 4:55pm
Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:

OriginalHappyCamper

This sure seems like an odd place to have a bible debate but I think we can keep it civil.

Are you familiar with John 20:22-23?  If so I would love to hear how you interpret it.   From the Catholic perspective it is easily understood, I am genuinely curious how it is perceived from a non catholic point of view.

Reply from a book called the Desire of Ages to your question;

The disciples began to realize the nature and extent of their work. They were to proclaim to the world the wonderful truths which Christ had entrusted to them. The events of His life, His death and resurrection, the prophecies that pointed to these events, the sacredness of the law of God, the mysteries of the plan of salvation, the power of Jesus for the remission of sins,--to all these things they were witnesses, and they were to make them known to the world. They were to proclaim the gospel of peace and salvation through repentance and the power of the Saviour. "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." The Holy Spirit was not yet fully manifested; for Christ had not yet been glorified. The more abundant impartation of the Spirit did not take place till after Christ's ascension. Not until this was received could the disciples fulfill the commission to preach the gospel to the world. But the Spirit was now given for a special purpose. Before the disciples could fulfill their official duties in connection with the church, Christ breathed His Spirit upon them. He was committing to them a most sacred trust, and He desired to impress them with the fact that without the Holy Spirit this work could not be accomplished.

The Holy Spirit is the breath of spiritual life in the soul. The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ. It imbues the receiver with the attributes of Christ. Only those who are thus taught of God, those who possess the inward working of the Spirit, and in whose life the Christ-life is manifested, are to stand as representative men, to minister in behalf of the church. "Whosesoever sins ye remit," said Christ, "they are remitted; . . . and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained." Christ here gives no liberty for any man to pass judgment upon others. In the Sermon on the Mount He forbade this. It is the prerogative of God. But on the church in its organized capacity He places a responsibility for the individual members. Toward those who fall into sin, the church has a duty, to warn, to instruct, and if possible to restore. "Reprove, rebuke, exhort," the Lord says, "with all long-suffering and doctrine." 2 Tim. 4:2.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2015 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

Technophobe, I guess that I am doing O.K. But I have already learned that I do not like living alone.


I went through the same issue of living alone it is not something that I enjoyed nor wanted. After 10 months of living alone I went on a web site, at the persistence of my three boys(men), that was listed for like believers as me, and the Lord brought me a wonderful women, who loves Jesus, whom I have now been married to almost 4.5 years. 

Hang in there brother and trust in the Lord as he knows your every thought and he does have a plan for the rest of your life. Watch and ask for signs of his leading.

Your Brother kin Christ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2015 at 10:31pm
OriginalHappyCamper, It is not may intent or desire to argue with you or any one else over religion. But I will tell you how confused I am and how confused that I have been for years.

I was raised in a very strict protestant home and taught to not believe in or trust any person from any other Protestant religion or the Catholic religion. I was also taught that the last Emperor of Rome was the first Catholic Pope and that is true. The Legion Commanders became Cardinals,the Battalion   commanders became Bishops and the Centurions became Priest.The tactics of the early Roman Catholic Church were the same as the Roman Empire had been.

But then I went to Vietnam,I volunteered from my first day of enlistment for  the most dangerous missions and locations in Vietnam. What I saw along the way remade me. I keep looking for Preachers from the church that I was raised in to be where the killing and dying was going on.Because these people should have feared nothing,because they were already ear marked for heaven. The preachers from where I was raised,were not there. The only Preachers or Priest that I saw where the rubber meet the road, and where men really needed men of GOD to pray for them and me,were Catholic Priest. 

So now I no longer believe how I was taught when I grew up and I gained a very healthy and justified and proven respect for Catholic Priest.

So now I am just wondering around looking for what is real. For me, now, only GOD,JESUS CHRIST, and the HOLY SPIRIT are real.

GOD saved my life many times while I was in Vietnam and I will not get into war stories. I was a helicopter pilot in the 101st Airmoblie Division and then for Military Intelligence. I flew so many mechanical break downs that were suppose to kill every one on board.There were not and still are not any emergency procedures for these things that broke. I flew these  Mechanical break downs that even my maintenance officer called me a liar on many occasions when I told him how long I had flown before I crash landed in a friendly place. 

The only power that could have kept my helicopter in the air is the power of GOD.I was an excellent pilot,but no pilot is good enough to have always made it back to a safe  place before I crashed.I do not know what else to say,except that there are many unexplained things that happened to me that I can only give GOD the credit for. Johnray1  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2015 at 3:01am
Fight for good?  Yes!  -  Fight each other? No!

My faith really is a Gnostic one.  I KNOW whereof I speak, it is not just an article of faith.  I cannot say I believe in God-the-Creator (or the whole panoply of other beings).  I do not believe in the postman either.  Proof of both is freely available to me.

There is no need to argue over faith.  God loves, forgives and welcomes you whatever.  Each person has their own perfect path provided.  Diverting you to my path would slow you down,  it is my path alone.  That is why I will not argue creed or faith as such.  But our salvation aside, God loves all of us and we should respect and try to understand each other for God, even if not for each other - or our own salvation.

OHC, my friend, perhaps you could meet DT part way?  He/she has held out the hand of friendship to you, despite believing their own faith to be under attack.  Yes, it is ultimately God who forgives everyone (and will do so no matter what).  But a representative "granting" absolution can give some much needed peace.  We all know we are sinners after all.  Most of those reading my words will think I am possibly deluded in my gnosis, so - without direct contact, how else can one attain to peace in this life?  Sleepless, guilt-ridden nights are a torment fit for Purgatory right here on Earth.  So, do whatever it takes to help your brothers and sisters where you can.  I am not saying the Catholic system is beyond abuse, but it is potentially a comfort as well.  Please at least allow DT that.

Johnray, I am thinking of you a lot.  I wish I were in a position to visit, hold a hand, put the kettle on, listen.  Sadly, the real world and the electronic one do not coincide as much as could be hoped.  There are lots of people on this site who feel the same.  Eternally faithful God aside, you are not alone, even if the rest of the company is virtual.  OHC is absolutely right about one thing: hang in there Brother, God will provide.

There is a test to see if you have done everything God wanted you to in this life:  -  Are you still breathing?  If you are, the answer is no.  God will reveal the next step when you are ready to see it.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2015 at 7:33am
This statement is in the Bible and applies to all religions, nations, kindred and tongues on this earth.

Matthew 7:21-23King James Version (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The above statement indicates that there will be people who profess to follow God and the Bible doing good Works, yet the Lord says he knows them not.  

The Definition of love in the Bible is   

John 14:15

If ye love me, keep my commandments. 

Matthew 15:8-10King James Version (KJV)

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:

What doctrines of men is he talking about, they must be contrary to the commandments of God.



Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2015 at 7:52am
Johnray wrote:
I was also taught that the last Emperor of Rome was the first Catholic Pope and that is true.

This is what the historians say:

The Crown of the Cæsars Passes to the Papacy

 

The year A.D. 330 was to alter the culture and history of Europe forever. Having dominated the mighty Roman Empire for more than four centuries, the center of Roman power was moved from Rome to the Bosphorus as Emperor Constantine I transferred the seat of government to Con-stantinople, a name he devised in order to perpetuate his own place in history.

This event of great historic significance set the Papacy on course for ultimate political power. As the Roman Catholic historian and apologist Henry Edward Manning wrote,

But from the hour when Constantine, in the language of the Roman law, "Deo jubente," by the command of God, translated the seat of power to Constantinople, from that moment there never reigned in Rome a temporal prince to whom the Bishops of Rome owed a permanent allegiance. (The Temporal Power of the Vicar of Jesus Christ, Second edition, London: Burns & Lambert, pp. 11, 12)

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2015 at 7:56am
Johnray1
Thank you for your service.

I am a disabled veteran from the that war, as is my older brother. We lost our younger brother, who was a Navy Seal, to that war.

God bless you Brother
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OHC   I want to know what YOU think   I can use google, as a matter of fact I have already read from many of the sources you have quoted.  Please share some of your thoughts.

As to that passage I asked you about I find it fascinating.   Catholics are always accused of not taking the bible literally.   However in this is case I think the text is very clear and very straight forward.  Yes there is room to interpret in different ways but the Catholic interpretation is just as valid as others.

Another thing to note... in the Gospels Jesus serves two roles.   He is the son of God and the son of Man.   Both roles are essential for salvation.  Jesus was accused of blasphemy because he forgave sins as the son of man NOT as the son of God.   When he was accused of blasphemy his response was NOT to show himself as equal to God.   He is healing and forgiving sins as a righteous man.  It is the job and roll of holy men.

What do you think about James 5 14-16?    At the very least we are to confess sins to one another.    Most modern translations say we should confess to an elder.    As far as I know the original language uses the word for Presbyter.   Yes most protestants translate that word as elder but "priest" is just as valid of a translation.
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As to how we got our bible...
Let me ask you a simple question....  What came first the Church or the Bible?

You do know that the Syrian Church, Gallic Church, and the Celtic Church are all Catholic and where in full union with room before the great schism?

The quotes you showed me talk about stuff that happened during the reformation. You do know that the Christian history is 1500 years older than that

Did Jesus rite the new testament?   Did the Apostles publish a bible?  We know for certain the bible was canonized in hippo in 393.   Before that there where many lists of inspired writings.   Some of them where very similar to our current cannon but some where different.  There was no absolute confidence as to what was inspired and what wasn't. 

If you use logic there is a gap here...   Jesus died and rose again, and then latter we have scripture.  However what authority did early Christians use to decide spiritual issues before we had the bible?

And now for extra credit, do you know what the first English translation of the Bible was? (It wasn't the King James like most think)

 
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A rebuttal to your response on on John 20 21-23

I think I agree with most of what you said....   Yes Christians have the power to forgive sins by preaching the Gospel.    I can't argue that.  However that passage is missing a very important element.   Jesus not only gave us the power to release sins... but also to hold sins bound.   What part of what you posted talks about this power?  Your explanation does a very poor job of explaining this element.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2015 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by WillobyBrat WillobyBrat wrote:


I died in hospital for 47 minutes.  I met your God, my God and everyone else's God and that God was full of the love that one feels as a child when you have grazed you knees and your mother cuddles you in her arms and kisses away the tears.  THAT IS GOD!  THE REAL GOD! And we, or rather the everlasting soul with in us, for want of a better term, are just the children of God. literally it's babies.  The universe is just a nest for the energy being, that big light that is God, to raise its children.  There is no hell, no punishment, no judgement, just love.  Ask anyone who has died under the anesthetic and returned.  


WillobyBrat, i find your experience very interesting. I had a similar experience, but I did not die. One day, a few years ago, I was relaxing in the middle of a very busy holiday weekend. I was in your basic daydreaming "alpha state", but very much awake, when God began to speak to me. (S)he told me many things that day, but the biggest takeaway message I received was that we are here to learn to truly and unselfishly love one another and take care of the earth, encountering and surmounting many obstacles along the way. There was much, much more, but you get the idea.

The biggest surprise for me was that I was raised believing that God was always watching me, ever ready to record all my sins and that I would someday be punished for each and every one. But I didn't get impression at all from the God that spoke to me. I also did not get the impression of hell, or an angry God, or any of the other petty emotions that we sometimes ascribe to God. What surprised me, too, is that God has a sense of humor. I got the feeling that God is as amused by us at times as we are as we watch children trying to put together a coherent, cohesive sense of the world, and where they fit into it. I also got the impression that someday when we get a clue and learn how to love one another unselfishly and properly, we will become part of God, literally joining our energy to become part of God. And that we will all get there, some day.

Maybe that all sounds crazy to some, and I accept that. But it was my experience. It's my story and I'm sticking to it. :) My experience helped me have some much-needed compassion for others and myself. It's made me a little more easy-going, and that is a BIG improvement! Anyway, WillobyBrat, thanks for sharing your experience, it was beautiful to read!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2015 at 10:49pm
WillyobyBrat, I can not disagree with anything that you.

But I can agree completely with one thing that you said, I have believe for a long time now that someday that England and Scotland  ,would become our 51st state and be greatly welcomed.Johnray1 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2015 at 1:06pm
ViQueen, my first (and greatest) gnostic experience was very similar to yours.  If you are crazy, then so am I, and my lovely hubby WillowbyBrat is a wee bit nuts too.  His was a near death, yours and mine accidental - though I was deliberately meditating at the time.  I believe the term for our experience is daharana.  Hubby just calls it "Godspace"

The message I was given was slightly different, but also about learning in life.  The love was overwhelming!  

I was a different person after that.

Thank you Johnray for your welcoming attitude, and thank you ViQueen for sharing what I know personally was a very intimate and awesome experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2015 at 2:12pm
Yes, Technophobe, definitely life-changing! I learned that "all roads DO lead to Rome", and that we must respect all people and their paths, for we and our paths are individualized, and very purposefully so. Each individual is infinitely precious, as is their story. When we lose even one it's like losing the piece of a puzzle that will never fit together properly thereafter.

The funny thing is when I was 13, I read "Reflections On Life After Life", and in my 30's I read books by Dannion Brinkley and Betty Eadie, and each time I thought, wow, I'd like to have an experience like these, but without dying. Be careful what you wish for!

When it happened to me, I was unprepared for the bliss. I had never experienced anything like it. Part of me wanted to just sit and receive the message for as long as God wanted to teach. But I finally asked for a timeout so I could write down what I had learned so far. I didn't want to forget any of it.

Daharana. I'm going to look that up. Technophobe, I appreciate you sharing your story, too. We MAY all three be crazy, us and the others I have spoken to who have had similar experiences. But I don't think so ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2015 at 12:53am
Technophobe, I have not had sex in over a year. I do not believe that my wife would even expect this of me,because the only good part of our 44 year marriage was incredible sex together. I do not know how to court a lady or even look for a lady. I do not want to go to a bar type situation.How do I find some lady to be with me? Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2015 at 5:47am
Its such a cliche, but be yourself, Johnray!

Do not go to bars and clubs (unless you do already) but go to the places and to the meetings that interest you.  Then the people you meet will have something in common with you.  Opposites may attract, but they do so for a VERY short time only!  Lonely hearts advertisements are a waste of time, but computer dating could link you up with someone you have a better chance with.

As to the great sex, all women are different, but if you clicked with one you will do so again.  Men fall into two types: those that make an effort to learn and useless selfish *******s (insert expletive of choice here - they all fit).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2015 at 10:39pm
Technophobe,good advice.Thank You, Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 7:13am
Johnray1

After my wife of 42 years passed away I waited on the Lord to bring me a woman that he wanted me to be with, just as he did for Adam.  Which he did almost five years ago.

Genesis 2:21-23 King James Version (KJV)

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Trust in the Lord for he knows your every need.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 10:27am
God sure does!  Loves you too!  But is a little unconcerned about "here".  This is just like on Earth, Mummy and Daddy are not too worried about the playground squabbles or hurt knees.  If however you need someone, God will help.  Mum and Dad find a plaster when necessary as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 2:32pm
 Happy Camper I found a website you might like.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OriginalHappyCamper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Kay Kay wrote:

 Happy Camper I found a website you might like.

I have seen that site before and disregarded it as it does not follow scripture but instead follows the teaching of man (or Satan).

Example;  the first lie told to the human race is found in Genesis;

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

The website that you sent teaches that the soul is immortal, that when you die your soul continues to live.  That is not what Jesus taught in the story of Lazarus. He taught that you sleep till the resurrection, as that is what happened to Lazuras. Read that story as Jesus was trying to educate the disciples, the Jews also believed that when you died you popped of to heaven. Satan has not changed his tune.

1 Timothy 6:15-16 King James Version (KJV)

15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus Christ died and was raised on the third day, the only "God" to overcome death.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2015 at 3:11pm
 Sounds like a little difference, what about the theif on the Cross?
By the way not defending the website didn't read all but what I did I agreed .
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