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War in Syria

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Medclinician View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2015 at 6:55am
The situation in Syria is a serious threat to world peace and as United States ground forces move towards the area, the risk of this resulting in a serious long lasting (years) quagmire become more likely. The battle continues - and gains have been made by Russia in terms of establishing a military presence which may last decades.

We see a time when independent films and other data is bypassing the control of the mainstream media and giving us behind the scenes information.

Update October 28, 2015 on Syria and the fight against Isis in the Middle East

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2015 at 1:52am
The only way the wars in Syria and Iraq (and maybe also Yemen, Libya) can be stopped is by international talks. Conflicts can not be solved in a military way. The basic choice is talks or fight and then talk. 

According to Debka (who has made several reports that turned out incorrect, the KSA king is still in power, the Chinese Aircraftcarrier was not near Syria) Iran/Hezbollah did loose the battle to control the main road between Aleppo and Damascus. http://www.debka.com/article/24985/Iran%E2%80%99s-elite-Rev-Guards-units-routed-by-ISIS-in-the-Al-Safira-pre-battle-for-Aleppo

Peace for Syria and Iraq (and the rest of the world) would be good news. A war that will last even longer is bad news. 

Russia could claim that their intervention is a succes if it would end war in Syria and Iraq before the summer of 2016. If the war would go on much longer international "credit" might be lost. (If the US does think that prolonging the war so Russia's image would get damaged I think that would be a very unintelligent aproach. IS, Al Quada, are much worse than Russia.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2015 at 8:36am
There really seems to be no apparent logic to the U.S. sending in less than 50 special forces to "advise" fighters. It really is much more simple and easily stated as to what is happening. The conflict between the Christians and the Muslims has been going on for 1,300 years. The conflict between those in Canaan and the Jewish people occurred around 1407 B.C. That means they have been fighting for 3,422 years. This conflict will never end until neither exists anymore to fight. 

Basically Isis has called out the West, especially U.S. to put ground troops in. However well trained or brave they might be, it would be a disaster. Despite the promise this would not happen over and over and that is a totally illegal action without the approval of Congress, it is about to happen.

If the West enters the battle, we are the aggressors, it becomes a Holy War and the idea to pull us into what would be a slaughter and loss of life would become a reality. 

Imagine a wheel  (Wheel of Fortune) with each section marked with a bad idea with a few sections of good ideas and every time the U.S. is going to do something they spin the wheel and pay no attention at all to the consequences.

Personally, I think Russia going in was a bad idea and it could backfire. At the onset it may be all glorious with propaganda films of bombing the hell out of both rebel and some Isis positions, but it is unlikely they are going to end the conflict between the Shiites and the Sunni. This war cannot be won by fighting it must be ended by negotiation and political means.They can gather allies and orchestrate all the battles they can muster but just as the Republican Guard went underground when the West entered Baghdad, IS will hide if it needs to.

The U.S. economy, the World economy is not doing all that well. Unlike World War II, big arms sales and hyped up factories making bombs are not going to bring back the 50's and 60's prosperity to the U.S.

We near a time when the reality is how many bad decisions can be made in a row before it is catastrophic. We are nearing an endpoint to where in the melee of mixed nations, rockets, bombs, and jets, someone is going to hit someone else hard.

It probably was a better idea to let them fight it out and see if it spills over any further and then rally a global response and declare it a war - IMHO.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2015 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by Medclinician Medclinician wrote:



It probably was a better idea to let them fight it out and see if it spills over any further and then rally a global response and declare it a war - IMHO.

Medclinician


I have to agree!  We arrogant Americans feel that we can insert ourselves into any situation and turn things around, and, if properly done, a handful of US special forces could create havoc with ISIL. 

However, it is a losing strategy.  Better to let Russia get involved in that, they don't seem to learn either. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2015 at 10:21pm
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-01/ban-ki-moon-condemns-american-stand-syria-endorses-putins

In an interview with Spanish newspapers that was published October 31st, U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon condemned U.S. President Barack Obama’s demand that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad be removed from office, and Moon said: “The future of Assad must be determined by the Syrian people.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 1:42am
https://www.rt.com/news/323215-warplane-crash-syria-turkey/

A Russian Su-24 fighter has been shot down in Syria, the Russian Defense Ministry said, adding the plane hadn’t violated Turkish airspace and was flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters.

“During the flight, the aircraft was flying within the borders of Syria, which was registered by objective monitoring data,” the ministry said, adding that the aircraft was "supposedly shot down from the ground.”

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/24/middleeast/warplane-crashes-near-syria-turkey-border/index.html

"A war plane with unidentified nationality fell near the Turkish border in Syria's Bayirbucak region," the Anadolu Agency reported. "The moment of the plane falling into Bayirbucak region across from Hatay's Yayladagi was captured on camera. The pilot's evacuation via parachute was also captured. Heavy smoke has been seen in the area where the plane fell."

The area referred to by the news agency is in southern Turkey, close to the Syrian border.

The Turkish government is strongly opposed to the Syrian regime of Bashar al-Assad. Skirmishes between Turkish and Syrians have taken place in the past, with Turkish officials accusing the Syrian planes of violating Turkish air space.

http://www.debka.com/newsupdatepopup/13818/Russia-confirms-its-warplane-shot-down-by-Turkey-Pilots-ejected

The defense ministry in Moscow confirmed its warplane was downed by Turkish forces, but claimed it was flying sorties against rebels over Syria and was shot down by Turkish artillery. Ankara says it was shot down violating Turkish air space by Turkish F-16s after repeated warnings. The two pilots were able to eject from the plane, but their fate is unclear. Some sources report that one of the pilots was captured by a Syrian rebel group. Turkish media broadcast video footage of the plane crashing into mountains near the border with Hatay province.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 1:51am
Russia will do all they can to bring back the pilots. If those pilots are in the hands of "rebels" proberbly in a military way, if in Turkish control by negotiations. But if Turkey starts shooting at Russian planes above Syria (maybe defending IS-forces that are attacking Kurdish fighters) it is a further serious escalation. 

Putin is in Iran:

Putin, Khamenei hold talks in Tehran, with Syria front and center 
DEBKAfile November 24, 2015, 12:40 AM (IDT)

Russian President Vladimir Putin met Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Monday in Tehran, with Syria dominating the agenda as their countries tighten military cooperation in support of embattled Syrian President Bashar Assad.  
The two leaders also discussed possibilities for joint efforts in other fields following Iran's nuclear deal with Western powers, reports said. 
In comments released to the media, the two leaders criticized Western and other countries for pushing for Assad's removal. “No one can or should force any form of government upon the Syrian people from the outside, or decide who should rule them,” Putin said during the talks. “This should be decided only by the Syrian people.”
Khamenei claimed Russia is playing an important role by countering US influence in the region, adding that Tehran will only hold bilateral talks with Washington regarding the nuclear issue, according to the Iranian media. 
Putin is making his first visit to Iran since 2007 to attend a meeting of the Gas Exporting Countries Forum. The Russian president is also scheduled to meet his Iranian counterpart Hassan Rouhani.
Tehran is one of Moscow's main allies in the Syrian conflict, with forces from the two sides already engaged in joint operations as seen in DEBKAfile's special report.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 2:30am
http://www.todayszaman.com/latest-news_turkey-shoots-down-warplane-near-syria-border_405108.html

A warplane that Russia said was a Russian Su-24 was shot down by Turkey inSyria near the Turkish border on Tuesday.

The Russian Defense Ministry said the downed plane was a Russian Su-24 and that it was within Syrian airspace. It said the aircraft was flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters and that it was apparently gunned down from the ground, the Sputnik news agency reported.

"For the entire duration of the flight, the aircraft was exclusively over Syrian territory. This was recorded by reliable monitoring methods," the Defense Ministry said in a statement

A CNN Türk reporter in Yayladağ said a helicopter was hovering over the scene of the crash, apparently to pick up the pilots, but that opposition fighters were preventing it. The reporter later said one of the pilots was in the hands of Turkmen opposition fighters while the second pilot was dead, citing local sources.

The Russian Defense Ministry statement said the fate of the pilots was still being determined and that according to the preliminary data, the pilots were able to eject from the plane.

Doğan news agency footage showed what appeared to be Russian military helicopters searching for the pilots.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 2:40am
"Turkmen opposition fighters" are Turkish backed fighting Assad in Syria. Question1: How can Turkey shoot down a Russian plane above Turkey that crashes in Syria ?
2. "Turkmen"fighters should be seen as not a part of the Turkish army in Syria, but what then ? 3. There are some reports that also a SearchAndResque-helicopter was shot down over the crash area in Syria. Russia will not accept that. What military reaction is to be expected. ? (Full scale attack on Turkmen position-para-troops fighting Turkmen ? Russia/Iran to "keep away"Turkish (and US) planes ?

I hope Putin and Erdogan are having a telephone call !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 7:48am
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/caught-tape-syrian-rebels-destroy-russian-helicopter-us-supplied-anti-tank-missile

Earlier today, just hours after Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane near the border with Syria, the FSA (more specifically Alwiya al-Ashar) released footage of fighters celebrating over the body of a dead Russian pilot. 

The group would later claim to have executed both pilots after they ejected from the plane and attempted to parachute to safety. 

In a second serious escalation, another FSA-aligned group claimed to have shot down a Russian search and rescue helicopter.

You can read our full coverage here, but just note that if the FSA's 1st Coastal Brigade did indeed use an American-made TOW to destroy a Russian aircraft, it confirms exactly what we said on Monday when we detailed the American, Turkish, and Saudi-sponsored program to supply anti-tank missiles to the Syrian opposition: 

Obviously, this is the very definition of absurdity. It would be bad enough if the US were supplying TOWs to anyone in Syria. But this is Washington and Riyadh handing anti-tank missiles to forces that are firing them at the Iranians who are operating under cover of Russian airstrikes. Just to drive that home: the US is waging war against Iran and Russia with but one degree of separation.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-pilots-executed-while-parachuting-turkish-media">http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russian-pilots-executed-while-parachuting-turkish-media

If Putin was angry when Turkey shot down a Russian plane, which may or may not have crossed Turkish territory - reports on both sides are conflicting - he will be absolutely livid to learn that, according to Turkey's Dogan News, the Russian pilots who had parachuted in an attempt to save their lives after the plane was shot down, had been executed while parachuting down by local rebels, which considering thevideo released earlier belonged to the Free Syrian Army, are same "rebels" who are funded directly by the CIA.

Putin slams Ankara over 'stab in the back', vows 'significant consequences' 

DEBKAfile November 24, 2015, 3:56 PM (IDT)

Russia's President Vladimir Putin denounced Turkey on Tuesday over the downing of a Russian warplane by Turkish jets earlier in the day, calling it "a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists." Arriving in Sochi from Tehran, he vowed the incident "will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations," without elaborating further. He rejected Ankara's claim that the Su-24 violated Turkish airspace, saying it was part of a group of warplanes in Syrian airspace that was struck by an air-to-air missile one kilometer from the Turkish border when it crashed. Putin spoke while receiving Jordan’s King  Abdullah at his Black Sea residence.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 8:27am
http://www.todayszaman.com/business_russian-tour-operator-to-suspend-sales-of-trips-to-turkey_405151.html


Russia and Iran can not accept Turkish support for IS and FSA. This means further escalation of the wars in the Middle East and Ukraine. The Krim was without electricity due to actions of groups backed by Turkey. "

Some experts believe that the terrorism act was conducted by Turksih intelligence services in concurrence with the US. The goal is to prevent a growth of the Russian influence after the Paris attacks on November 13.

De facto, the terrorism act was made by Crimea Tatar extremists and the “Right Sector” terrorist group.

Russia, Iran (and China) are close to a confrontation with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Gulf States (and with this "the west, NATO, defending IS).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 9:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 9:59pm
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-24/russia-escalates-suspends-military-cooperation-turkey-moves-warship-coast-destroy-an

Despite demands from France's Hollande, America's Obama, and NATO's Stoltenberg that this situation not esclate, it appears Putin is not taking the shooting down of a fighter jet lying down. The seemingly cagey confirmation by NATO and Obama of Turkey's claims that Russia invaded its airspace has been rebuked by Russia which claims the Hmeimim airbase radar shows the attacking Turkish plane violating Syrian airspace. In response, Russia is moving a Cruiser 'Moskva' off the coast to strengthen air-defenses - just as French and US carriers are on their way.

 My own ideas:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan After consultation with Iran, Iraq and Syria Russia might support the Kurdish people in their claim for an independent state. South-Eastern Turkey will be part of that state. Also Russia may support claims of Syria on Antakya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antakya in Hatay Province wich only became Turkish in 1939. 

Russia might react in Ukraine. Today Putin will meet King Abdullah of Jordan in Sochi. Jordan has a large Palestinian population. Palestines (in Hezbollah) are fighting in Syria. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 11:21pm
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/10/russia-violates-turkish-airspace-because-turkey-moved-its-border.html 

Turkey has maintained a buffer zone five miles inside Syria since June 2012, when a Syrian air defense missile shot down a Turkish fighter plane that had strayed into Syrian airspace. Under revised rules of engagement put in effect then, the Turkish air force would evaluate any target coming within five miles of the Turkish border as an enemy and act accordingly.


Completely unkown to the international public only a week ago, Sheikh Moaz al-Khatib has been catapulted to the presidency of the Syrian National Coalition, which represents pro-Western opposition in the Damascus government. Portrayed by an intense public relations campaign as a highly moral personality with no partisan or economic attachments, he is in truth a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and an executive of the Shell oil company.

VOLTAIRE NETWORK | DAMASCUS (SYRIA)  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2015 at 11:45pm
Turkey allowed World Food Program-trucks to transport weapons for IS. A US-journalist Serena Shim working for Press-TV in Turkey reporting on this was murdered in 2014. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0GrcQ9kXbI&feature=youtu.be About "We are change" https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChwwoeOZ3EJPobW83dgQfAg


Debka: Moscow could place nuclear weapons in Syria to counter Turkey: analysts 
DEBKAfile November 24, 2015, 6:42 PM (IDT)

Leading Russian military commentators in Moscow said Tuesday evening that Russia could place nuclear weapons in Syria if tension with Turkey continues to rise. When asked by a Western interviewer if such a situation could actually happen, one commentator said it is now considered to be a real possibility. 


http://www.globalresearch.ca/plans-for-redrawing-the-middle-east-the-project-for-a-new-middle-east/3882


MAP OF THE NEW MIDDLE EAST



Note: The following map was prepared by Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters. It was published in the Armed Forces Journal in June 2006, Peters is a retired colonel of the U.S. National War Academy. (Map Copyright Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters 2006).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2015 at 12:37am
http://fktv.is/ukrainian-oligarch-kolomoysky-sorry-about-mh-17-but-it-s-a-andquot-trifleandquot-27443

This clip is of a drunken Ukrainian Oligarch, Igor Kolomosky, who's the Governor of Dnepropetrovsk State, being goaded into admitting that he was in charge of a rogue operation that attempted to to hit "Plane Number One", Russia's equivalent of the US' Air Force One, to assassinate Russian President Vladimir Putin - but which, instead, accidentally ended up shooting down the commercial airliner MH-17, killing all 298 aboard, more than 200 of which were Dutch citizens.

Interviewer: And what about the Boeing?
Igor Kolomoysky: What do you mean?
Interviewer: Well, what was Poroshenko thinking about?
Igor Kolomoysky: What? There is nothing to wonder about. Apparently, it was an accident. Nobody had any intent to take it down.
Interviewer: Well, I am sure it is the work of your people.
Igor Kolomoysky: Oh, stop that! What are you telling me? The shot was accidental - we wanted
to shoot down the Number One Plane but hit another plane. It's totally normal, not that bad. Sorry about the Boeing, about the people, however it's a trifle. You know, [unprintable]. When serious stuff [weapons] gets into the hands of a novice, this kind of [unprintable] rubbish 
is the  result...So you believe that we did that [unprintable]? — Intentionally, no, there was another [plane]…


As a voice recording allegedly featuring the voice of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan ordering his son, bilal, to dispose of vast amounts of cash -- as much as $1 billion, according to claims -- amid a corruption operation in mid-December of last year continues to shake Turkey, Today's Zaman is publishing an English version of the full transcript of the audio. (Bilal Erdogan made up to a billion US$ in IS-Iraq-oiltrading).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2015 at 9:12pm
Turkey=part of the axis of evil
state sponsored terrorism

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2015 at 10:53pm
A lot of Turkish people are fed up with Erdogan and his mix of "religion and corruption". "Axis of evil" is not helping the people in Turkey that risk their live to fight state-sponsored terrorism. I think Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Gulf States, Pakistan are supporting terrorism. But what role does NATO, US, EU play ? 

"The west"was supporting the "revolts" in Ukrain, Libya, Egypt, "democratic movements" in Syria, Iran, Russia. Russia and Iran are supporting state-terrorism in Syria. "Foreign policy" in the interest of few has brought us back to the 18th century with 21st century weapons. 

The "big evil" is that power is in the hands of a very small extremely rich group that claim to own almost all of this planet and are fighting each other to get even richer. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2015 at 3:34am
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/25/here-is-what-turkeys-erdogan-fears-most/

Erdogan has been careful to purge the military of secularist officers who may pose a threat to his rule. Turkey’s military has historically been a vanguard for protecting the country’s secular constitution, formed under the principles laid out by the country’s modern founder Mustafa Kemal.

The constitution has been watered down several times, most recently in 1982, becoming increasingly tolerant of Islamist political movements and reducing the military’s influence in government affairs. Erdogan’s Justice and Development Party (AKP) seeks to amend the existing constitution or replace it with a new one.

The Turkish military has traditionally repelled such attempts by warning civil rulers against moves to change the constitution, which led the country into military rule. Such moves are often preceded with “memorandum” warnings from the military against rulers.

“In Turkey there is a marriage between Islam and democracy. The child of this union is secularism. Sometimes the child becomes ill, and the Turkish army is the doctor who saves it. Depending on the disease’s severity we administer the right medication to cure the child,” a 1997 military memorandum authored by General Cevik Bir said.

Erdogan has been careful to avoid such a scenario, purging the military of hundreds of officers, most famously in 2013, when it arrested 275 people, including senior generals for a conspiracy to overthrow the government.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2015 at 10:25pm
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-26/russia-releases-video-s-400-sam-battery-deployment-syria-putin-issues-warning-obama

Bottom line: another direct engagement by a Turkish fighter will be its last, and in fact now that Russia is prepared we would not be at all surprised to see Russia cross into Turkish airspace on purpose just to provoke Erdogan to repeat the events from last week, only this time with the Russian ready and prepared to retaliate to any engagement. In fact, the odds of Russia doing just that in the next few days are especially high.

But while the reason behind the S-400 deployment was largely known to most, where Putin's press conference took an unexpected detour was what he said just around 20:30 in, when in not so many words, Putin effectively accused the US of leaking the coordinates of the Russian plane to Turkey, which was merely a hitman acting with the blessing of the Pentagon.

This is what Putin said:

"We told our US partners in advance where, when at what altitudes our pilots were going to operate. The US-led coalition, which includes Turkey, was aware of the time and place where our planes would operate. And this is exactly where and when we were attacked. Why did we share this information with the Americans? Either they don't control their allies, or they just pass this information left and right without realizing what the consequences of such actions might be. We will have to have a serious talk with our US partners.

In other words, just like in the tragic bombing of the Kunduz hospital by US forces (which has now been attributed to human error), so this time the target was a Russian plane which the US knew about well in advance, was targeted however not by the US itself, but by a NATO and US-alliance member, Turkey.

And while the deployment of the Russian SAM missiles was already known, the real message from today's presser, the one that will be the topic of a private and "serious talk with Russia's US partners", is that Putin indirectly blames Obama for what happened on Tuesday realizing that Erdogan was merely the "executor", one who is simply motivated to protect his (and his son's) Islamic State oil routes.


http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/11/24/michael-hudson-explains-what-the-french-president-really-wanted-to-say-but-didnt/

From Michael Hudson: What French President Hollande Would Have Liked To Have Said

“I apologize to President Obama for not realizing that ISIS’s attacks on France were expressions by the ‘legitimate moderate opposition’.” I appreciate President Obama making it clear that ISIS is America’s Foreign Legion just conducing moderate opposition in their own moderate manner.”


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 12:25am
If the 2003 war against Iraq (with weapons of mass destruction as  an excuse) was all about oil IS was created to steal that oil. Russia has been bombing the oil-wells, transportationroutes into Turkey. That is way Turkey shot down the Russian plane (based on US info, with NATO going along with it). 

In reaction Russia is giving the Kurds better weapons and info to defend themslves against the IS/Turkey/NATO coalition. The next "proxy-wars" will be in Turkey and Saudi Arabia (that is losing their Yemen-war). 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 12:34am
Dutch Josh,all of this is possible,but I do not believe that the US feed information to Turkey so they could shoot the bomber down. The reason that I do not believe it is that a decision of that kind would have to come directly from the President of the US and I simply do NOT believe that Obama has the Bal** to make a decision like that.Johnray1 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 1:12am
Johnray1, I would love to believe NATO is not supporting IS for oil. Obama has shown himself to choose for a more "hidden" form of warfare. Drones and funding "rebels", leaving the war to CIA etc. falls into a pattern. 

Paul Craig Robberts (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/) calls European "leaders"idiots. Looking at what is happening, a very small group getting richer and richer, there is some logics behind that. Stealing oil from countries without a government might be cheaper than to have pay tax. Gadaffi (LIbya) also wanted a "golden Dinar" in stead of US $ for oil. 

There are many reasons to reduce the importance of fossil fuels, energywars are one of those reasons. Do not get me wrong, Putin is a major shareholder in Gazprom- he is fighting for Russian fossil fuels interests. (That might explain why China is not directly involved yet. Eventhough NATO is supporting Islamist in Western China and giving them aid to join IS).

On China http://en.people.cn/n/2015/1127/c90000-8982503.html (Djibouti is just south of Yemen, west of Somalia)

The largest foreign military base in Djibouti is US Camp Lemonier thataccording to

 its websiteis a navy led installation hosting approximately 4,000 US military personnel,

 and"providesoperates and sustains superior service in support of combat readiness and 

security of shipsaircraftdetachments and personnel for regional and combatantcommand requirements".

Liu Hongwudirector of the School of African Studies at Zhejiang Normal Universitysaidbuilding

 military supporting facilities was just a start for China to carry out securitycooperation with the African Union.

Security cooperation will be a key area in future cooperation between China and theAfrican Union,

 since for many years African countries have asked China to take part intheir security processesLiu said,

 and there is a tendency for China to strengthen its security cooperation abroadespecially with Africa.

Carrying out such cooperation makes sense as China has a major economic presence in AfricaLiu added.

China is Africa's largest bilateral trading partnerwith trade volume in 2014 surpassing$200 billion,

 almost three times US-Africa trade.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 1:48am
Erdogan (Turkey) puts journalist that prove Turkey is exporting arms to "Syria" in prison. 


The articles, published on the daily's front page, reported that the trucks in question were intercepted by gendarmes on two occasions in January 2014 after prosecutors received tip-offs that they were illegally carrying arms to Syria. There have been allegations that the arms were going to extremist groups fighting against the Syrian regime. Ankara, on the other hand, insisted that the trucks were carrying aid to Syrian Turkmens and branded their interception as an act of “treason” and “espionage.”

Dündar continued, “First the government responded saying: ‘No there is nothing of the sort. This is aid. Then it was revealed that these were guns. Then they said that these were going to the Turkmens. Then the present deputy prime minister, Tuğrul Türkeş said, ‘I swear to God they [the trucks] were not going to the Turkmens.' … Then later the Turkmens said they did not receive any arms.”

“The president is acting as if this is a personal lawsuit, saying I will be following this, and I will not let it go. He, personally, is the complainant. I do not know why the president alone is the complainant. This secret is a secret that belongs to the state, it is not a secret that belongs to him personally.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 2:02am
http://www.globalresearch.ca/russia-china-relations-and-the-downing-of-russias-jet-fighter-by-turkey/5491012

China has trade-interests to maintain economic growth. For its energy needs it is depending on Russia, South China Sea and Asian countries (Malaysia, Indonesia, Iran).

The New Silk Road can not be developed without Russia and Iran. Turkey/"west" supporting "human rights" and Muslim extremists, Tibet etc. makes Russia and Iran "interesting"as a counterweight for China against Japan, South Korea and US. 

On the longer term China wants to become a "major player" and already is seeing the US as an obstacle. China will not go for open conflicts when it can avoid doing so.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 3:27am
France and Russiaagree on strategy against IS; destroying oil trade. https://www.rt.com/news/323603-isis-oil-smuggling-turkey/

Islamic State’s daring and impudent oil smuggling into Turkey should become a high-priority target in order to cripple the terrorist group, President Putin said, backed by French President Francois Hollande. Both agree that the source of terrorist financing must be hit first and foremost.

Commercial-scale oil smuggling from Islamic State controlled territory into Turkey must be stopped, Putin said after meeting Hollande in Moscow.

and "“We assume that the top political leadership of Turkey might not know anything about this [illegal oil trade]. Hard to believe, but it is theoretically possible,” Putin said, adding that this however does not excuse Ankara from not stopping the illegal smuggling of oil.'" 


I (DutchJosh) also expect a financial (cyber) war to destroy banking links to IS etc. This will "influence"global ICT.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 7:23am

The conflict continues to escalate between Russia and Turkey. Is there a possibility Turkey will request help if it is attacked?  Implications of this are far greater than a display of force in Syria.
"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 11:31am
Turkey Arrests Journalists Who Exposed Erdogan's Weapons Smuggling To Extremist Syrian Rebels

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Turkey_Arrests_Journalists_Who_Exposed_Erdogan's_Weapons_Smuggling_To_Extremist_Syrian_Rebels/47520/0/38/38/Y/M.html

“deliberately aiding a terrorist organization."

yeah there's someone DELIBERATELY aiding a terrorist organization alright
it's Erdogan and his family

Turkey is aiding and abetting known terrorists
and they're a member of NATO  ?

I wonder if any of the money Erdogan's son paid for ISIS oil went to buy any of the weapons
involved in the massacre of 120 French citizens ?

what ya think ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 12:42pm
How Turkey Exports ISIS Oil To The World: The Scientific Evidence

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...tific-evidence

there is blood on Erdognan's hands

literally

and Obama's response ?

crickets chirping.....

talk about a FAILURE in leadership
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 8:45pm
Dutch Josh and Satori,one thing is certain.someone has been buying and using IS oil since day one and the most of the oil has been moved in Turkish pipelines. So that pretty much proves that Turkey is in the pot of players.

Another thing is for certain,NO ONE has bombed the oil wells,the refiners, or the pipelines so that also makes every country that has dropped a bomb against IS also suspect. We may find out when it all falls apart and it will,because  everyone involved would cut their own mothers throat for another nickel.Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

Dutch Josh and Satori,one thing is certain.someone has been buying and using IS oil since day one and the most of the oil has been moved in Turkish pipelines. So that pretty much proves that Turkey is in the pot of players.

Another thing is for certain,NO ONE has bombed the oil wells,the refiners, or the pipelines so that also makes every country that has dropped a bomb against IS also suspect. We may find out when it all falls apart and it will,because  everyone involved would cut their own mothers throat for another nickel.Johnray1

Amen to all of that, Johnray1!  

Turkey hasn't been worth a plugged nickel ever since the great Turgut Ozal died.  Now there was a leader!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 10:53pm
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-26/800-shotguns-headed-belgium-turkey-seized-italy

A shipment of 800 huntingriffles from Turkey to the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. Question: Who did send those riffles and who would recieve them. Other question: There proberbly were more shipments. 

The official story is that the terrorists that killed 130 people in Paris bought there weapons in Germany. Was that German part of a scheme linked to Turkey ? (That would link the Parisattacks to Turkey>)

Terrorist-cells need a source of income. Were do they get their money from ? If the Paris attacks needed 200 people to plan and prepare (a Debka-story) you are talking about a lot of money. Now IS has a lot of money, lots of weapons, but then there is also the logistics; to get "the means" in the "right" place. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2015 at 10:58pm
Johnray1, the Iraq oil wells may have been out of any government control since 2003 (after the US/NATO invasion). IS proberbly took over control, but it might be the same "warlords" (former officers Iraq army from Saddam Hussein era, Baath party) that are doing the deals with whoever wants to do those deals. 

The more oil on the market, the lower the price. Russia is only involved in the region a few months. Since Russia is producing oil their interests are in decreasing oilproduction to raise energyprices. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2015 at 1:28am
http://www.todayszaman.com/anasayfa_diyarbakir-bar-association-president-killed_405573.html

"I have just learnt that Bar Association President Mr. Tahir Elçi died and a policeman was martyred," President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said at a meeting in the northwestern province of Balıkesir, adding that an unspecified number of policemen were also injured. “This incident shows how right Turkey is in its determined fight against terrorism.”

Diyarbakır Co-Mayor Fırat Anlı earlier wrote that Elçi was killed on his Twitter account.

Witnesses said a man started firing at a group that included Elçi, other lawyers and members of the press as Elçi was delivering his statement, a Doğan news agency reporter told private broadcaster CNN Türk. Police teams in the area fired back, sparking a gunfire, he said, adding that a journalist was also wounded.

Elçi has been in the news recently after he said in televised remarks that the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) is not a terrorist group. He was detained in October and was awaiting trial for comments he made during a debate aired on CNN Türk television.


Although he declared that Russia would not go to war with Turkey for “stabbing it in the back,  DEBKAfile’s military and intelligence sources report that since Wednesday night, Nov. 25, Russian heavy bombers and warplanes have been hitting every Turkish vehicle moving or stationary inside Syria.

They bombed the Bab al-Hawa border crossing, located on the Turkey-Syria frontier, as well trailers and tractors parked in an area belonging to the Turkish Humanitarian Relief Foundation, on the Syrian side of the border.

It was this group (a terrorist association in disguise) that five years ago organized a flotilla to break Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip. The lead-ship the Marmora was boarded by Israeli troops and 12 “aid workers” were killed in a clash, an incident that sparked a major clash between Ankara and Jerusalem. Erdogan then insisted he had never heard of the organization although their strong links were uncovered.
Putin has made no allegations. He simply sent his bombers to destroy the organization's vehicles and plough up their parking area on the Syrian side of the border. He also refuses to take calls from Erdogan.
All these circumstances are features of a very active war waged between the two countries - albeit on Syrian soil - since Turkish warplanes downed the Russian Su-24.



I was also trying to post a link to VeteransToday in wich the role of Turkey in Latakia/Syria becomes more clear. Erdogan is using Turkish minorities in Syria to fight against Assad with Turkish aid. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2015 at 3:27am
http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_turkmens-re-take-control-of-kizildag-hill-from-syrian-forces_405491.html

Turkmens living in the Bayırbucak area near Turkey's Yayladağı border gate withSyria on Friday morning regained control of Kızıldağ (Red Mountain), one of three strategic hills that had fallen into the hands of the Syrian army on Thursday.

After an exchange of heavy gunfire between the Turkmen groups and the forces of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad early on Friday, the Turkmens had re-taken control of Kızıldağ by 6 a.m. Turkmen forces also captured two tanks from the Syrian army.

Yesterday, the Syrian army deployed armored vehicles, heavy machine guns and troops to Kızıldağ after recapturing it. The hills have strategic importance for the Turkmens, as they overlook 10 nearby villages where Bayırbucak Turkmens live.

(Turkmens did run to Turkey during Syrian/Russian attacks but returned from Turkey after those attacks)

Syrian forces -- supported by Russian air and land forces -- started a military ground operation in Bayırbucak this week, where there are about 50 Turkmen villages, and have been pounding the mountainous area where Turkmens live. Turkmens are an ethnic Turkic group living mostly in Syria and Iraq, along with Arabs and Kurds.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2015 at 6:55am
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34953505
Turkey's president has said he is "saddened" by the downing of a Russian combat jet by Turkish forces on the Syrian border last Tuesday.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he wished the incident had not happened and hoped it would not happen again.

https://undercoverinfo.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/isis-survives-largely-because-turkey-allows-it-to-the-evidence/  (Turkey = IS)

http://www.voltairenet.org/article189366.html

Qatar has bought sophisticated military equipment from Ukraine on behalf of ISIS. The operation took place in late September 2015, just before the Russian military action against the terrorist organization. It was approved by the US embassy in Doha. Officially, the new emir is not involved in the war in Iraq and Syria.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2015 at 7:25am
Israel is giving medical care to alqueda-fighters from Syria http://www.voltairenet.org/article189411.html

Several journalists who were participating in a media tour organised by the Australia/Israel and Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC) were able to visit the Ziv Medical Centre, in Zefat (North Israël). The hospital has at its disposal a service specialising in war traumatology. It is government-run and linked to the Israeli Defence Forces. In this context, it treats Syrian « refugees ».

While the rest of the group - the assistant chief editor of theDaily Telegraph, Ben English ; the journalist from Seven News, Alex Hart ; the political reporter from Sky News, David Lipson ; the chief editor of the Australian Financial Review, Aaron Patrick ; the head of the political column of the Sydney Morning Heraldand The Age, Bevan Shields – followed the organisers, a famous journalist from News Corp, Sharri Markson, stayed with some of the patients in order to hear their stories. She was thus able to confirm that more than 500 of them are members of Al-Qaïda, wounded during the fighting in Syria. She was able to note the details of the manner in which they had been transfered to Israël to receive hospital care, and then sent back to continue the jihad in Syria. She was then arrested by security officers.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2015 at 7:30am
http://www.voltairenet.org/article188381.html Ukraine and Turkey create an international Muslim Brigade

http://www.voltairenet.org/article189162.html IS members moved from Syria to Ukraine (by Turkey Georgia) 

https://www.rt.com/news/317849-ukrainian-russia-isis-revenge/ According to this document, the jihadists had been instructed by Senator John McCain to organise with the CIA, from Ukraine, the destruction of a US plane in Syria and to attribute the operation to Russian forces, in order to create conflict between the two countries. http://www.voltairenet.org/article185980.html">http://www.voltairenet.org/article185980.html

VT sources say this is part of a CIA led team hunting Iranian and Russian targets inside Syria that includes Navy SEALs


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2015 at 11:35pm
Putin's strategy is simple. First deal with IS in Syria and Iraq. The picture I am getting is that Russia is blocking transport-lines to Turkey. IS can not longer sell oil, can not longer get their supplies from Turkey. There are other oppositiongroups opposed to the cruel dictator Assad. But to solve "the problem" they are paying a high price. 

I guess Putin will start pushing IS to the south across the border towards Saudi Arabia. They also created the problem. The corrupt Gulf-kingdoms are no better than the Assad dictatorship. 

Turkey will see more internal unrest. The Russian sanctions, the break down of tourism (also from the west, even it was for free I would not go to Turkey for a holiday) and growing protest from large groups may bring the Turkish Army to "restore order". 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2015 at 10:57pm
http://en.alalam.ir/news/1764342 http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/11/28/iranian-press-putin-to-send-150000-troops-to-syria/ and others https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUBOVREsTs are claiming that Russia is preparing 150.000 reservists to take over Raqqa and start a major offensive in Syria. Already a small number of Russian troops is fighting not far from Latakia. Putin wants results and not enable "other powers" to re-arm IS (or "moderate opposition"). Iran and Iraq may be starting to get ready for a major battle as well. 

Such a major development would need backing of China. Russia could coordinate with Israel to keep away Iran and Hezbollah from Israels borders. 

The official story is that Russia does not want Russian soldiers fighting a groundwar in Syria. Only to "speed things up" it may be needed to start a ground war. 

Turkey (NATO) controls the Black Sea-Mediterreanean Sea-connection, Bosporus. Russia could send supplies via Iran. A "sever escalation" will have effects on the relation between NATO (supporting supporters of IS) and Russia, Iran. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2015 at 2:00am
https://www.superstation95.com/index.php/world/593


“The Obama administration effectively switched sides in what used to be called the Global War on Terror [GWOT] when it decided to overthrow the sovereign government of our Libyan ally, Muammar Qaddafi, who’d been helping in the fight against al-Qaeda, by actually teaming up with and facilitating gun-running to Libyan al-Qaeda and Muslim Brotherhood [MB] elements there in 2011,” explained Lopez. “This U.S. gun-running policy in 2011 during the Libyan revolution was directed by [then] Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and [the late Libya Ambassador] Christopher Stevens, who was her official envoy to the Libyan AQ rebels.”

To avoid having the funds tracked back to the Obama administration, the arms flow to Libya was financed thru the United Arab Emirates, while Qatar served as the logistical and shipping hub, she noted.

“In 2012, the gun-running into Libya turned around and began to flow outward, from Benghazi to the AQ-and-MB-dominated rebels in Syria,” Lopez added. “This time, it was the CIA Base of Operations that was in charge of collecting up and shipping out [surface-to-air missiles] SAMs from Libya on Libyan ships to Turkey for overland delivery to a variety of jihadist militias, some of whose members later coalesced into groups like Jabhat al-Nusra and ISIS [also known as IS].”

Jabhat al-Nusra is al-Qaeda’s Syrian affiliate.

“The downstream consequences of Obama White House decisions in the Syrian conflict are still playing out, but certainly the U.S. – and particularly CIA – support of identifiable jihadist groups associated with the Muslim Brotherhood, Jabhat al-Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham, the Islamic State and other [jihadists] has only exacerbated what was already a devastating situation,” declared Lopez.

Some of the other weapons that eventually ended up in Syria included thousands of MAN-Portable-Air-Defense-System (MANPADS) missile units, such as shoulder-launched SAMs, from late dictator Muammar Qaddafi’s extensive arms stockpiles that pose a threat to low-flying aircraft, especially helicopters.

“It’s been reported that President Obama signed an Executive Order on Syria in early 2012 [just as he had done for Libya in early 2011], that legally covered the CIA and other U.S. agencies that otherwise would have been in violation of aiding and abetting the enemy in time of war and providing material support to terrorism,” notes Lopez. “Still, such blatant disregard for U.S. national security can only be described as deeply corrosive of core American principles.”

Libya Amb. Stevens was killed by jihadists in Benghazi on September 11, 2012, along with three other Americans.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2015 at 2:05am
Echoing a Benghazi resident who provided a first-hand account of the incident, retired U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Dennis Haney, a CCB member, suggested to Breitbart News that Hillary Clinton’s State Department armed some of the al-Qaeda linked jihadists who may have killed the four Americans in Benghazi.

(Dutch Josh)In other words: The US organized the murder of the US ambassador in Libya who was giving arms to IS and Al Queda terrorists as a US strategy to fight terrorism. Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama should be kept responsible also for this murder ? 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2015 at 2:09am
“The reason the U.S. government was operating in Libya is absolutely critical to this debacle because it reflects where America went off the tracks and literally switched sides in the GWOT,” points out Lopez. “This is about who we are as a country, as a people — where we are going with this Republic of ours.”

“There can be no greater treason than aiding and abetting the jihadist enemy in time of war – or providing material – weapons, funding, intel, NATO bombing – support to terrorism,” she continued. “The reason Benghazi is not the burning issue it ought to be is because so many at top levels of U.S. government were implicated in wrong-doing: White House, Pentagon, Intel Community-CIA, Gang of Eight, at a minimum, in Congress, the Department of State, etc.”

The State Department and the CIA did not respond to requests for comment.

Clinton was asked about the gun running operation when testifying before the House Select Committee on Benghazi in October. The Democratic presidential frontrunner claimed she was not aware of any U.S. government efforts to arm jihadists in Libya and Syria.

Clinton did admit to being open to the idea of using private security experts to arm the Qaddafi opposition, which included al-Qaeda elements, but added that it was “not considered seriously.”

Members of the 2011 “Gang of Eight” mentioned in this report included: then-House Speaker

Rep. John Boehner (R-OH) 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
 
 
 
 
   
Rep. Mike Rogers (R-AL)
 
 
 
 
 Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger (D-MD)
 
 
Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV)
 
 
 
 
 
Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
 
 
 
 
   
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
 
 
 
 
 and Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA).

 

Lopez is the vice president for research and analysis at the Center for Security Policy and a senior fellow at the London Center for Policy Research and the Canadian Meighen Institute.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2015 at 2:16am
The wars in Libya and Syria are the outcome of the Obama administration. The Bush administration is the main responsible for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. NATO partners followed the US in most of these choices. 

IS is armed, trained, funded, by the US/NATO via Turkey and the Gulf states (other reports also see a role for the Ukraine, Georgia and Israel a.o.).

What "went wrong" is that Russia started to get involved. IS has over 7000 fighters from EU countries, over 20.000 fighters from Russia, also fighters from China. IS is now showing up in Afghanistan, Ukraine, Libya, Nigeria-all countries linked with oil/gas (transport) and proberbly getting logistical transport etc. from NATO ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2015 at 2:22am
https://www.rt.com/usa/324081-intelligence-chief-iraq-war-isis/

The former commander of US Special Forces in Afghanistan and Iraq said that without the Iraq war, the Islamic State wouldn’t exist today, according to the German newspaper Der Spiegal. He also blamed a poor emotional response to the 9/11 attacks.

“First we went to Afghanistan, where al-Qaeda was based, then we went to Iraq,” Flynn told the newspaper in an interview.“Instead of asking ourselves why the phenomenon of terror occurred, we were looking for locations. This is a major lesson we must learn in order not to make the same mistakes again.”

General Flynn, who served in the US Army for more than 30 years, was stationed in Afghanistan and Iraq from 2004 to 2007. He said he regretted his role in the Iraq war and said the terrorist attacks on 9/11 led the US to create disastrous military polices. The US invaded Iraq after administration officials – including President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, and Secretary of State Colin Powell – presented false intelligence about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction program and alleged links to Al-Qaeda.

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