Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Off Topic Forum > Political Discussion > Politics - Political Talk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - My fear when Mr. Trump takes the Oath of Office...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

My fear when Mr. Trump takes the Oath of Office...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 11>
Author
Message
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My fear when Mr. Trump takes the Oath of Office...
    Posted: November 16 2016 at 5:17pm
Inevitably, foreign powers "test" the new Chief Executive to see what his response will be.  

A classic example was the downing of a sophisticated US spy plane by China when George W. Bush was in office for only ten weeks in 2001:


Considering Russia's military buildup on its European border, I expect to either see a Russian military invasion of NATO countries in the Baltic, or a full-blown invasion of Ukraine, within weeks of the Trump inauguration: 


Trump will be clueless, and Putin knows this...the security establishment is shunning the Trump transition team, and key members have resigned.  We have no clue who the Sec. Defense is likely to be, but I doubt that it will be anyone impressive or intimidating to Putin. 


Scenarios could include Trump's acquiescence to Russia, or over-reaction (possibly involving nuclear strikes).  In any event, I wouldn't blame Putin for being militarily aggressive, it would be a historic opportunity to strike a blow at the heart of NATO. 

Not to mention what China, North Korea, Iran or other state actors might do.   I could also see a major cyberattack on the US cyber infrastructure. 

This is a good read on some of the possible scenarios and reasons for state actors to do something drastic:


Now would be a good time to check your supplies and preparations.  

Be safe, Chuck


CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2016 at 5:37pm
NSA chief: 'Nation state' intervened in presidential election 'to achieve a specific effect'

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...pecific-effect

" [Deputy Editor-in-Chief Rebecca] Blumenstein also asked Rogers about WikiLeaks, and the slow and steady leak of emails stolen from Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta's gmail account. "There shouldn't be any doubts in anybody's mind: This was not something that was done casually, this was not something that was done by chance, this was not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily," Rogers said. "This was a conscious effort by a nation state to attempt to achieve a specific effect."

That nation state is clearly Russia."


there's an increasing amount of evidence that Putin prefers Trump
why ?
Back to Top
Crabby View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2016 at 6:48pm
You're worried about a Russia invasion? The invasion has already begun and it isn't Russia. It's the Muslim immigrants flooding into Europe and they're coming from all over the middle east, not just Syria!

3/4ths of these immigrants are young males and in some camps the percentage is even higher. This is not the makeup of Syria.

Who cares about Ukraine when all of Europe is going down right now.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2016 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:

NSA chief: 'Nation state' intervened in presidential election 'to achieve a specific effect'

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...pecific-effect

" [Deputy Editor-in-Chief Rebecca] Blumenstein also asked Rogers about WikiLeaks, and the slow and steady leak of emails stolen from Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta's gmail account. "There shouldn't be any doubts in anybody's mind: This was not something that was done casually, this was not something that was done by chance, this was not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily," Rogers said. "This was a conscious effort by a nation state to attempt to achieve a specific effect."

That nation state is clearly Russia."


there's an increasing amount of evidence that Putin prefers Trump
why ?

Thanks, good information! 

I found this a few days ago, and haven't heard much from other sources:

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 65816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 1:31am
Does anyone think Mrs Trump is a Soviet mole ,Putin's honeypot in the white house? Talk about conspiracy theories....lol
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 9:02am
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Does anyone think Mrs Trump is a Soviet mole ,Putin's honeypot in the white house? Talk about conspiracy theories....lol

That thought actually crossed my mind.  


He suggested a sharper focus on fighting Islamic State, or ISIS, in Syria, rather than on ousting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. “My attitude was you’re fighting Syria, Syria is fighting ISIS, and you have to get rid of ISIS. Russia is now totally aligned with Syria, and now you have Iran, which is becoming powerful, because of us, is aligned with Syria. . . . Now we’re backing rebels against Syria, and we have no idea who these people are.” If the U.S. attacks Mr. Assad, Mr. Trump said, “we end up fighting Russia, fighting Syria.”


A careful reading of the logic behind this policy is that President-elect Trump accepts that American foreign policy should be guided by Russia. According to Trump, if Russia has an interest and military presence in a region, the United States needs to align with Russian interests or “we end up fighting Russia.” 


Later that day, after Trump talked to Putin, the Kremlin issued a statement welcoming a “dialogue of partnership with the new administration.”



CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 65816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 1:17pm
well while trump was saying the Election was rigged , 

was he telling the truth?????????

called hiding in "PLAIN SIGHT "!!!!!!!!

remember Edward Snowden!!!!!!!!!
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Crabby View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 3:05pm
Speculation serves no useful purpose.
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 4:06pm
Speculation serves no useful purpose.

it does serve a purpose
it gets people thinking
and that gets people digging
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by Crabby Crabby wrote:

Speculation serves no useful purpose.

In intelligence/national security, we call this "visioning." 

More interesting background information:

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 5:17pm
For what it is worth, here is the root of my "visioning".

In a sociology experiment, performed by my daughter's college, where the relevant words were adapted, and the comparisons were translated from the German: the public were read a series of Trump's comments and a similar series of Hitler's comments.  None of those tested could tell the difference.  

Putin already saw Trump as a potential puppet.  That was before he said he did not believe in the West getting/being involved in the Syrian conflict.  Experienced politicians have trouble in understanding Putin, this leaves no hope.

I believe at least one of his companies has been dogged by bankruptcy. 

His entire campaign was composed of aggression, xenophobia, impossible promises, evasion and blame-shifting.  I can't believe anyone was stupid enough to fall for all that.  It has certainly diminished America in my eyes.  It seems that now he is in power he will tone down what was promised, but even diluted that is scary, inhumane and, frankly, embarrassing. 

I have a very good imagination.  So, no prizes for working out where my visioning went.  
                                                                                                                                           I don't sleep so well now.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 5:39pm
Proposed bill turns protesting into a felony

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...-into-a-felony

Trump Supporter Cites Japanese Internment As ‘Precedent’ For Muslim Registry

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...1nx3vge8us1yvi
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 5:55pm
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 7:34pm
Welcome to the crowd, I was scared to death when a Community Organizer, with only a law degree and 2.5 years as a U.S. Senator became our President. Gee do I need to spell it out Obama. So don't cry wolf until you know there is a wolf because no one will listen or care about what you say in the future.

Give Trump a chance to govern it has been one week and people are going off the deep end for no reason! What people say in a campaign is totally different than what they do just look at Obama.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Welcome to the crowd, I was scared to death when a Community Organizer, with only a law degree and 2.5 years as a U.S. Senator became our President. Gee do I need to spell it out Obama. So don't cry wolf until you know there is a wolf because no one will listen or care about what you say in the future.

Give Trump a chance to govern it has been one week and people are going off the deep end for no reason! What people say in a campaign is totally different than what they do just look at Obama.

I wasn't scared to death, but I was concerned.  Pres. Obama had a pretty thin resume, but he had a good brain coming in and some competent people around him (I know one of them).  He's done a fine job, and much of that is from the quality of advice he was given at the beginning.   The Pentagon nicknamed him "No Drama Obama," and he's lived up to it.

Trump has Ivanka and Kushner.  He sacked his best advisor (Christie) and is surrounding himself with yes-men and fawning sycophants. 

I'm particularly alarmed at the selection of Gen. Mike Flynn as National Security Advisor, I don't think we want to live in a country with Muslim registries.  


Give him a chance?  With selections like Bannon etc., I'm not feeling that generous.  
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
EdwinSm, View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: April 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 24065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2016 at 10:20pm
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94007
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2016 at 1:52am
I think countries will test Trump. When Putin can make the US fight a war against IS under (a sort of) Russian supervision that would save Russia a lot of costs. 

North Korea always is hard to predict. One major player stays in the background but has a clear plan (and a lot of cards in its hands) :China. For the moment China is "best friends"with Russia and Iran. China is the energy-buyer; Iran and Russia sell energy. 

There are lots of countries that want to sell energy to China. Also China wants to get more independent. China is willing to cooperate with Russia and Iran under Chinese conditions for Chinese goals. 

The "New Silk Road" is meant to make the Chinese economy grow further. China has a housing bubble, owns a lot of debt-papers-also from the US. China wants "to rule" south-east Asia (more than the South China Sea-they want to be the most important trade dealer in Asia). 

When other countries make China a better offer than Russia and Iran make at present the Russia-Iran-China coalition-united against Obama-may not last that long. 

Trump wants to make the US more independent in energyneeds. Saudi Arabia, Gulf states (allready not happy with better US-Israel relations; Russia was gaining ground in Israel) will need other buyers for oil, face decrease in income. 

Basicly: Putin may be very bussy in the Middle East and keeping China happy. Putin wants better relations with Europe. He will try to use Trump for his goals but the US may not be priority number one for Putin. (The Syria-war is to expensive for Russia. One of the reasons why the west/gulf states keep supporting "rebels" is that it weakens Russia (and this also explains why China is limiting its role in the Middle East). Russia can not continu the war in Syria for years-they need a (Russian) victory. And if that means they have to "sell" Assad for Trump/US support they proberbly will dump Assad to replace him with a pro-Russian puppet.)

Trump needs to set goals to archive them. Otherwise other countries that do know what they want will go for their goals. 
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94007
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2016 at 2:08am
For the Ukraine time is on the Russian side. The US under Trump looks like less interested in putting a lot of money in the corrupt Kiev-regime. The Minsk-agreements are a European initiative. Both France and Germany have elections in 2017 with parties expected to play a major role to become winners that are "anti"EU. So they also will not support the Kiev-regime. 

Expension of NATO and EU ware the mean reasons for the Maidan-coup. Ukraine itself is broke, bankrupt. 

A "peace agreement" proberbly will mean "new elections" in wich Russia will regain influence. Both the EU and US do not pay endlessly for a regime that is that much disliked and fail to deliver. 

China may want to increase its role, maybe buying Ukrainian companies/energy/ports. 

When Trump decides not to risk major wars for "Syrian rebels", Wahabi-kings, and Ukrainian nazi's I think the world becomes a better place. There are better ways for the US to keep influence around the globe. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and some other "western allies" may do more damage than some "enemies" do.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2016 at 4:46am
As a point of interest, or possibly an omen, The day we found out that Trump had won (Wednesday 9 Nov.) was the anniversary of kristallnacht.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2016 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

For the Ukraine time is on the Russian side. The US under Trump looks like less interested in putting a lot of money in the corrupt Kiev-regime. The Minsk-agreements are a European initiative. Both France and Germany have elections in 2017 with parties expected to play a major role to become winners that are "anti"EU. So they also will not support the Kiev-regime. 

Expension of NATO and EU ware the mean reasons for the Maidan-coup. Ukraine itself is broke, bankrupt. 

A "peace agreement" proberbly will mean "new elections" in wich Russia will regain influence. Both the EU and US do not pay endlessly for a regime that is that much disliked and fail to deliver. 

China may want to increase its role, maybe buying Ukrainian companies/energy/ports. 

When Trump decides not to risk major wars for "Syrian rebels", Wahabi-kings, and Ukrainian nazi's I think the world becomes a better place. There are better ways for the US to keep influence around the globe. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and some other "western allies" may do more damage than some "enemies" do.

Thanks, Dutch Josh!  As always, your European perspective is very much appreciated.  

Since Trump is appointing "strong men" advisors (Tea Party to CIA, Flynn to National Security etc.), I'm expecting this group to roll over and play dead whenever Putin pulls the chain.  

A massive military incursion into Ukraine under the pretext of "defending" Russian-speaking citizens seems likely.  Resistance would likely be token in the face of Russian armor, as it was in the Prague Spring. 

An all-out invasion of the NATO Baltic seems less likely, but possible if Trump truly wants to push the alliance and see what happens.  

I'm not sure what China may planning, but they certainly will have some inauguration day gift for Trump. 
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 65816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2016 at 1:28pm
China wants Australia,

thats my gut instinct

Vast open country with unlimited mineral reserves

large high yeild uranium deposits,

why do you think they are building "stepping stones" through the south china sea?????


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2016 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

China wants Australia,

thats my gut instinct

Vast open country with unlimited mineral reserves

large high yeild uranium deposits,

why do you think they are building "stepping stones" through the south china sea?????



Damn good point!  And, you Aussies are fairly weak in a military sense...no nukes available.  

I'd like to think that these powers (Russia, China, Iran) are bullies who will try to subvert other countries into doing their bidding....

However, history also supports the view that they are imperialistic and wish to actually occupy the territory.  China is not nearly as big of a problem in this regard as Russia has been, historically speaking. 

Anything can happen.  

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94007
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2016 at 10:00pm
CRS,DrPH, why would someone go for a military-way when a non-military way gives better results for less investments ? 

In the Ukraine the Kiev "group¨ was payed by the west as long as they would bring the Ukraine closer to EU/NATO, They failed to do a proper job, turned Ukraine in a economic disaster (Poland is still giving some support-Ukraine and Poland share a "problematic past" with Russia).  When Germany, France stop "investing" in the Ukraine, the US stops paying the military bill "new negotiations" may become more fruitfull. 

Ukraine can try to do business with Turkey on the southern/Black Sea border but in many ways it simply can not escape from doing deals with Russia. 

China has a population problem. China has been exporting "workers" all over the world for over a decade. In several African countries there are Chinese communities. Oil, minerals, mining, but also building infra-structure is a Chinese export product (including Chinese workers). 

When you can buy Australian mines, food production, ports, put Chinese management in place, give building projects to Chinese companies (with Chinese workers) why would you choose to go for a military way ? Buying what you want is the short cut, destroying it and rebuilding it afterwards "is not good for business"! There is a whole world for sale, lets not destroy that ! (Proberbly the way China looks at the world-they are already in charge, only we did not see that.) 
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 65816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2016 at 10:30pm
"ITS BETTER TO TAKE THE STATE INTACT , than to resort to war ",

quote from SunTzu "THE ART OF WAR"

circa 6th century BCE

But when other things dictate a faster tranistion I.E

CLIMATE CHANGE,"a civilization change ",acording to the Chinese government.....

who knows???

just have to wait and see,

sit back and have another beer....lol
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2016 at 1:30pm
This is Directly From Steve Bannon's Breitbart, This is Really Happening, We Can't Kid Ourselves

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...-Kid-Ourselves

"Steve Bannon is part of the Alt-Right. He admittedly has made Breitbart News “the platform for Alt-Right” views. “’We're the platform for the alt-right,’ Bannon told me [reporter David Corn] proudly when I interviewed him at the Republican National Convention (RNC) in July.” “Bannon is our man in the White House” said Andrew Anglin from the Neo-Nazi website Daily Stormer. "

and Bannon is one of Trump's TOP advisers



if your not familar with the term "alt-right"
you may want to do a little research

the next 4 years could be pretty awful

READ before you accept the obscene and unthinkable as normal.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/20/1602264/-READ-before-you-accept-the-obscene-and-unthinkable-as-normal

"Trump’s vision for the United States is echoed in that of his chief strategist, Steve Bannon, a man who even the very right-wing Glenn Beck describes as a dangerous, sociopathic racist. In 2016, a reporter from the Daily Beast recalled this conversation with Bannon:

“I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed. Shocked, I asked him what he meant.

“Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.”

Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2016 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

"ITS BETTER TO TAKE THE STATE INTACT , than to resort to war ",

quote from SunTzu "THE ART OF WAR"

circa 6th century BCE

But when other things dictate a faster tranistion I.E

CLIMATE CHANGE,"a civilization change ",acording to the Chinese government.....

who knows???

just have to wait and see,

sit back and have another beer....lol

LOL!!  No kidding!  

China has been building up its military, particularly advanced aviation and naval forces (they are starting carrier operations).  This is why US allies like Japan, Philippines etc. are so wigged out. 

Viet Nam wants the US to come back to Cam Ran Bay, which is interesting.  

I'm not sure about Russia, but I could see China making a sudden push to invade Taiwan.  They've wanted to do that for a while, and the Trump transition might offer a historic opportunity. 

Trump is wrapping himself with former US military advisors who also have some sympathies for Russia, so it could be interesting.   Former Gov. Mitt Romney has been an outspoken critic of Russian engagement, and yet he went on bended knee to interview for Sec. State, so I don't know what is in his mind (except pure opportunism). 

May we live in interesting times....
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
EdwinSm, View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: April 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 24065
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 1:08am
Sadly, throughout history, four American presidents have been assassinated and various other unsuccessful attempts were made on the lives of a number of others.

Can you envy the Secret Service agents, on hearing gunshot near the soon-to-be President Trump, having to yell "Donald, duck..."
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 2:55am
Absolutely Quackers!!!  LOL
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 10:17am
This is so that AFT members in Europe, OZ etc. know what is going on around here....

CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 88450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 11:38am
All joking aside, that is both terrifying and deeply sad.  I had thought the mistakes Germany and her people made in the thirties, and for which they collectively felt a crushingly deep sorrow and guilt, had educated the whole world about the evils of such things.  I believed the few neo-nazis to be a tiny group of power-less/hungry nutcases.

Now, it transpires, I was not just wrong, but spectacularly so.  It appears that 50% of the greatest, freest, most egalitarian union on the face of the planet has joined them before the wounds from one small nation have healed.

Not only are those who do not learn the lessons of history forced to repeat them, but they can drag the whole class along with them.  'AND ONCE WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH!!!

I could say I am sickened, or saddened, or angry, or scared, but none of those adjectives seem strong enough.  I am speechless.
How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
arirish View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2013
Location: Arkansas
Status: Offline
Points: 39215
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 11:49am
Every day there are fewer and fewer people left to bare witness to the atrocities of the Nazi death camps! Every day it is easier to deny it ever happened! I had relatives with the 4th armored division of the 3rd army when it liberated Buchenwald. We should never let it happen again much less be a part of it!
Buy more ammo!
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

All joking aside, that is both terrifying and deeply sad.  I had thought the mistakes Germany and her people made in the thirties, and for which they collectively felt a crushingly deep sorrow and guilt, had educated the whole world about the evils of such things.  I believed the few neo-nazis to be a tiny group of power-less/hungry nutcases.

Now, it transpires, I was not just wrong, but spectacularly so.  It appears that 50% of the greatest, freest, most egalitarian union on the face of the planet has joined them before the wounds from one small nation have healed.

Not only are those who do not learn the lessons of history forced to repeat them, but they can drag the whole class along with them.  'AND ONCE WAS MORE THAN ENOUGH!!!

I could say I am sickened, or saddened, or angry, or scared, but none of those adjectives seem strong enough.  I am speechless.

Thank you for your perspective from the UK!  Here's yet another one, this one with some very bizarre photos & tweets if you follow the links:


Like you, I thought this was a fringe of older, angry white men....the youth of this movement is most startling.  
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 3:43pm
the final vote count is not yet in
but as of now
Clinton is ahead by 1.7 MILLION votes

one thing is clear
"the people" did NOT elect Trump
the electoral college did
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 3:57pm
Philosopher predicted rise of Trump-like figure in ’98 book

https://www.yahoo.com/news/philosopher-predicted-rise-of-trump-like-figure-in-98-book-215658929.html

"In the relevant passage, Rorty goes on to suggest that after his “imagined strongman” comes to power he will quickly make peace with the “international super-rich” and invoke memories of past military victories to encourage military adventures for short-term prosperity. But, Rorty continued, the strongman will ultimately be a disaster for the world and people will wonder why there had been so little resistance to his ascent."
Back to Top
Crabby View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:

the final vote count is not yet in
but as of now
Clinton is ahead by 1.7 MILLION votes

one thing is clear
"the people" did NOT elect Trump
the electoral college did


Donald Trump is the 5th president to be elected by the electoral college versus the popular vote. The last president to be elected by electoral collage versus the popular vote was George Bush in 2000 against Al Gore.

There is no use for the electoral college anymore, but I'm still glad that Hillary didn't win.
Back to Top
jacksdad View Drop Down
Executive Admin
Executive Admin
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2007
Location: San Diego
Status: Offline
Points: 47251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2016 at 11:15pm
As if having Bannon in the White House wasn't bad enough, it looks like an unqualified climate change denier is going to head up - and likely try to dismantle - the EPA Shocked

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/science/myron-ebell-trump-epa.html


"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 11:00am
Trump's own staff easily manipulating him

Reince Priebus tried to trick Trump into canceling his New York Times meeting

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/22/1603081/-Reince-Priebus-tried-to-trick-Trump-into-canceling-his-New-York-Times-meeting

the White House is gonna be one big clown car for the next four yearsLOL
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

CRS,DrPH, why would someone go for a military-way when a non-military way gives better results for less investments ? 

Good question, but my answer is to look at Tibet and Crimea.  If a great power can invade with little prospect of resistance, I think they will.  

Even the US is guilty of this.  Under Reagan, we invaded Grenada in 1983, using the same pretext that Russia did in Crimea ("protecting nationals").  

China tends to be less militaristic, but they have had border clashes with the USSR, India and Viet Nam. 

The only real military target I can see for China is Taiwan, which they consider as a renegade province, not unlike the situation in Crimea.  Taiwan would put up a pretty stiff resistance, and I suspect that they may have a nuke or two stashed away, but it is possible. 

Russia launching an invasion into the Baltic would be pretty drastic, and I could see all sorts of miscalculations on both sides.  

FYI, I was never in favor of offering former Warsaw Pact countries membership in NATO, as I saw it provocative to Russia.  However, they are in, and countries like Poland contributed greatly to the US efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, which invoked Article V.   

Should be interesting! 
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 4:47pm
poor Trump supportersCry
he's now refusing to prosecute Hillary like he said he would
and now this bit of backtracking

Donald Trump Now Says Humans Somehow Contribute To Climate Change

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b09b6055ff19a3

what's next

Trump=bait and switch
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:

poor Trump supportersCry
he's now refusing to prosecute Hillary like he said he would
and now this bit of backtracking

Donald Trump Now Says Humans Somehow Contribute To Climate Change

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b09b6055ff19a3

what's next

Trump=bait and switch

He's getting a dose of realism....


If he backs us out of the Paris Accord, other nations may well retaliate. 
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Crabby View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 5:31pm
The mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8 C over the 20th century is well within the variations recorded in the last millennium.

https://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3

Also consider the fact that people like Al Gore have gotten rich off of their climate change investments into so called "green" companies. It's about MONEY and population control.


Back to Top
Satori View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: June 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 28655
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 5:53pm
yeah
Al Gore leaves his porch light on even during the day
so therefore global warming is not happening
everyone can understand that "logic"
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94007
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 9:59pm
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-22/tpp-dies-asian-nations-salute-their-new-free-trade-leader-china Trump can say no to the Trans Pacific Partnership, North American Free Trade Asociation etc-but it is not clear what he has to offer instead. In export-oriented countries they now look for partners that do want to do business: China. 

Trump wants more US-energy, less rules-more fracking-the result will be even more earthquakes. 

Trump ignores climate-collapse, and of course the best way to get bigger problems is by ignoring them ! (Crabby; I would love to believe that climate change is not real-but evidence is different and getting devastating; sealevelrise will escalate within five years. Maybe some sort of feedback system in climatechange/global warming can change things but the way things are going now humans will be gone by 2030 or earlier).

Trump will be confronted with realities that are there; the US has spent billions/trillions in wars for oil to get an elite even richer. Clinton would continu on that destructive route. If Trump has an alternative he has to come up with realistic plans. Replacing middle-east/OPEC energy by US energy would go against the "free market" he claims to believe in. (The reason why the US did loose it position in energy during the 20th century is that productioncosts were much to high in the US.)

The US has "brains", innovation in energy (doing more with less-and reneweble-energy) is a challenge. But computer-driven, low energy electric cars build of new materials are the future. Bi-lateral trade-deals can be an alternative for globalism. 

Another risk in my opinion is "totalitarian democracy" in wich-company owned- main stream media claim that alternatives (like this forum) produce "fake news". All you do on the internet is monitored by the state. There is a group of people in power that have the arrogance to believe that they are always correct, have all the answers. 

Both in the US and Europe extreme right wing "politics" gain ground partly due to this arrogance. But also because an elite is funding these neo-fascist parties, neo-nazi's are fighting in the Ukraine (together with a.o. IS) against Russia. Hitler was funded by a (royal) elite that was afraid of the Soviet Union and atheïsm. Oil companies (and the Bush family, Henry Ford a.o.) paid the nazi's.

The last SS-unit fighting in Berlin may 1945 was the French SS-Charle-le-magne division. Nazism was widespread both in the US and Europe (including colonies). Voters can be manipulated so they are being manipulated-both in the US as elsewere. 

In Germany Merkel is the "moderate"experienced candidate running against "alternative-for-germany" (AfD) in elections in 2017. AfD may collapse under its own weight (or manipulation from outside). In France Marianne le Pen may face competition both from conservatives as from a "new left". Those races will be run the coming months. 

Trump will influence what is happening in Europe (and so will Putin). But the basics to build on are already here and the outcome of earlier decisions.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
Expert Level Adviser
Expert Level Adviser


Joined: January 20 2014
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 26660
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 22 2016 at 11:46pm
CRS, DrPH
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 94007
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2016 at 1:24am
CRS,DrPH, the article does not mention what to expect for the sealevelrise-lots of sources mention "that it will rise faster than expected" but since the polar regions are remote, satelite-data only gives limited information (so for exemple sea-water temperature at several levels under the sea-ice can only be very limited be measured by satelite) it is very hard to get more specific. 

Less land-ice means less pressure. The land-ice on Greenland was up to 3 kilometers, 1.8 mile thick. Less pressure means the underlying landmass will move up (by 1 kilometer if all the 3 kilometer of ice would go away). That gives seismic activity, earthquakes. 

Also layers in the seafloor, defrozen permafrost (also in mountains-partly glued together by ice=melt is collapse, landslides) on land react on temperatures getting above freezing with release of (a.o.) methane, but also water moving to the surface, sloppy grounds (buildings, roads, pipelines etc. getting unstable). 

Further fracking will cause superfractures. Oklahoma is being destroyed by the oil-industry (Dutchsinse did good reporting on this). Is the US waiting for a man-made (super)earthquake ? In the past I did discuss on this forum the maximum magnitude earthquakes can have by natural causes. The 9.5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Valdivia_earthquake had (proberbly for the most) natural causus. Fracking in sensitive US regions-close to faultlines wich gave strong earthquakes in the last centuries-partly overdue-and with global pressure redistribution-is not only a risk for the US !

Here in the Netherlands the oil/gas companies slowed down gas-exploitation because they had to pay for damages. Here the magnitude maximum was under 4. Further fracking in the US can turn the planet into a timebomb. I think a magnitude 10, maybe even up to 11 (?) is possible and that kind of earthquakes (also related super volcano's) is to much for any country to deal with. (It will effect rotation of the globe, give super-tsunami's, total destruction over thousends of kilometers.)

http://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/875/are-richter-magnitude-10-earthquakes-possible leaves out the human factors, fracking, massive landice-melt. A man-made faultline in combination with natural faultlines gives total new calculations-risks rise dramaticly ! (And I did not even mention underground nuclear testing....)
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 11>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down