| PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL |
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| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
TSHTF list |
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 Topic: TSHTF listPosted: March 30 2006 at 9:18pm |
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Let me give some encouragement about saving money. Yep, I have alot now, even after "purchasing" six adopted kids. Adoption wasn't cheap, even though 5 of my kids were handicapped. I stayed home 15 years to raise them, gave up my nursing career. We were thrifty. I clipped coupons,and bought what we "needed." Went to yard sales alot. Hair cuts by mom. No $25.00 fake nails, no cable TV, no new cars, a simple life, but a good life.
But MOST importantly we gave God His share and He has ALWAYS blessed us. : ) MK |
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TNbebo408
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 5:33pm |
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80K, dang and I thought I was set with 500 bucks hid in my truck??????
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Don't blow your kids lunch money for things they may never need.
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sweetpea
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 12:01pm |
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Amythest ... that is a very good idea, and with what MIGHT be left, just add more supplies ...
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"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Amethyst
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 9:38am |
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Personally, if I had that much money saved up, I'd buy a house, or a small cabin up north if I already had a house. I live in an apartment right now and if a pandemic hits, I'd probably be safer outside of the city than in it. But a house would be more secure than an apartment (IMHO).
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sweetpea
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 9:24am |
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I'm curious what one would do with $80K? I hope you have a good safe at home, you could keep it stashed there until the banks are back to normal again. I figure when TSHTF that our world would become a world of bartering for goods, money wouldn't be of much use except that it's just another piece of paper ...
I have a different mindset, that a majority of my savings is my personal storage ... and whatever pidley amount I have left in savings, well I'll just have to trust FDIC with that. I might keep several hundred out for minor purchases at first, but soon money will become useless when people start to run out of food and water ... that when the bartering begins ...
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"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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K_Ohio
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Posted: March 30 2006 at 8:15am |
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If chaos comes, I think there will be a huge run on banks and they wont be able to pay out as they have limited cash on hand. I was amazed to discover just how little cash a bank holds.
I asked about removing 80K and they said that might be a problem. You have 80K???? Damn I'm in trouble. I live paycheck to paycheck with 7 kids to raise and not a farm animal in sight. I've been trying though $20 here $50 there. It's gonna take awhile but at least I've started. |
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Posted: March 29 2006 at 7:15pm |
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My last minute preps will be candy flour pancake mix cake mix dried fruit.
I am buying canned food and water and rice now paper products last.
Also I bought radio and batteries the last time we had a power outage .
I bought a generator too.
I will buy electronic next wind radio battery tv walkie takies
funny thing is the generator makes me feel safe . I dont want to rely on candles I will use candles when Ineed to look I wiil buy solar lights.
I see this lasting 18 months and in waves .I still beleive cash will be the currency needed but gold and liquior will be king for awhile I will be taking cash out for spending
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Mississipp Mama
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 8:54pm |
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Ladybug you sound like you are in my home town Hattiesburg. We plan to be a lot better prepared, I'm looking into getting a hand pump well. We bought 3 porta potties like the ones the construction guys use. Picked them uptoday. Our walmart is reopen 24/7 but it'hard for them to keep the shelves stocked. I hate to see what's going to happen if and when the SHTF.
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ladybug
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 6:25pm |
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Many of the local banks in Southeast Louisiana were closed for several weeks after Hurricane Katrina hit, and most stores were operating on a cash only basis. Fuel was prepay only and there were people filling 55 gallon drums of gasoline up as well as lines miles long at the pump to fuel up. It was unbelievable, and we are 70 miles north of New Orleans. Power was out in our area for almost a month and so was the water due to possible contamination. Stores were out of everything and suprisingly enough our Walmart Supercenter is still not open 24/7 because they are unable to keep the shelves stocked due to the number of people who have relocated from areas that recieved alot more damage than we did- Damage in our area was extensive, but being 70 miles away from the storm helped buffer the blow a little. Storefronts were blown out, roofs torn off,trees on houses and vehicles, and mobile homes were flipped onto their sides here. We plan to be prepared for this, we have 6 children depending on us to be, but it sure is scary!
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 5:05pm |
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Femvet,I heartily agree. Get outta debt,this would seem a no brainer, but of course, you know people are materialistic and greedy, they borrow, spend, borrow, spend, borrow. Advance payments does have an advantage, the money is safe somewhere. Good thinkin'. The only survivors are people with no debt, owning a house, cash in hand, and an over packed cupboard, period. BTW, if this plague hits hard, and folks start dyin' causing empty houses to flood the market, it will bring a downward spiral in the market. I'm selling my rental houses now and possibly my residence after hurricane season. I have heard people say, don't worry if you can't make your mortgage, we'll all be in the same boat, the banks won't take our homes away. Well, don't be too sure about that. Remember, all rich investors need to put down is 10% and if noone wants to buy your house at it's present value, the bank will take whatever it can get, and that may be considerably lower than todays market value. Imagine losing all your equity. Someone buys your house for a song and you're out on the street. Don't say it can't happen, it did, it was called the great depression. My grandfather lost his home and his 11 children were on the streets until they found a much smaller house. My mom still cries when she tells the story. Concerning inflation, I see first inflation, as supply and demand will increase prices. But if the flu goes to a third wave and it's a super killer, then yes, it could become a deflationary market, but this of course would take time. HOWEVER one would have to include the calculation of the monies/estates inherited from the victims of AF. There may develop a deeper chasm between the haves and the have nots. MK |
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 3:15pm |
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Femvet,
I would agree with your points - I am just too poor to do it (My sarcastic sense of humor always gets me in trouble). Although I guess if I really believed that society is going to degrade to the level being discussed - I would pull money out of retirement plans, take the penalty and pay off debt/mortgage. For myself, I don't believe that would be a wise decision based on my perception of the current threat. I would think that quite a few people have 401K or IRAs and I wonder how many people have removed their money from those plans. Those plans could be worthless a year or two from now in a widespread economic meltdown. I am betting that the melt down does not occur. But I am watching the cards as they come out of the deck and reserve the right to change.
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 2:51pm |
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BamSteve, would very much appreciate your thinking. Different opinions very much welcome.
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Ironstone
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 1:52pm |
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Best thing that ever happened to me was having no credit after a divorce. I learned to live without creditcards. When i was able to afford a home i was deluged with offers to sign up for another. Too late, i did not need them. I seldom use a TV and have a small B&W, about 8 inches, i would guess. in the garage i have two brand new color ones still in the boxes. Guess people felt sorry for me and tried to move me into the remote control age. Habit, in living and spending, will detrmine how well we do in this. I was lucky.
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Ironstone
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 1:41pm |
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Femvet,
I am good with #5, no problem taking money out of the bank in less than 10K increments, it is the other five that give me the most problem.
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 12:24pm |
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Mary kay, it is difficult to make a sound financial decision in this environment, there are simply too many unknowns. Let me try out a few different scenarios:
1. You pay off your house soon:
a. Your debt free - Good
b. You loose your tax deduction - Bad
2. If we have H2H:
a. We might have deflation, prizes drop, because too few people are working, no money. If we have deflation, that means interst rates will drop ala Japan, you could refinance at much lower rates than what you currently have, so to pay it off now would cost you money.
b. We have inflation - You're ahead of the game!
c. Inflation leads to hyperinflation: Fed uses this "opportunity" to inflate the US out of its enormous debt: Money in its current form will be worthless in a very short period of time. You're way ahead of the game.
In my personal opinion, and, please, take that for what you pay for it:
1. Pay off credit card debt
2. Pay off car
3. Make advance payments on utilities
4. Make advance payments on your mrtgage, will steeply reduce your overall interest and give you time to gather additional information.
5. Take cash out of the bank in amounts less than 10K, otherwise it WILL be reported to the IRS.
6. convert some to pgysical gold and silver. Has ALWAYS retained its buying power thru-out human history!!
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lkay
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:28am |
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Thanks Ironstone. That makes very good sense to me. I may fill my 55 gal drum with water to make sure it's nice and clean since it's set up a while, and then use it to water my trees and shrubs after a couple months. I'll wait on filling my other containers...and thanks for the idea of hanging them from the rafers!
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Ironstone
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:10am |
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Ikay, some may be storing water. I still have water coming out of the tap so that is not a priority issue for me right now. I do have plastic garbage bags full of empty food bottles hanging from the garage rafters. I believe i will have plenty of time to fill them as everything will not shut off with no warning. I will be aware of illness in my area and fill the bottles at that time.
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Ironstone
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lkay
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 10:43am |
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Thanks KatDoe. I'm realizing more each day I have a lot to learn...but I'm doing it each day, making list, and picking things up almost daily. I love garage sales, but I think when I hit them this year, I'll be looking at what I need to get in a whole different light. Today I found a website on Kitchen Gardening, Growing Herbs, and some pressure cooker recipes. At home now I have boxes of stuff that I had intended to give away to local churches. As bad as it sounds, I may need to go back thru the stuff and reconsider what needs to go...(including some old cookbooks). Thanks again.
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KatDoe67
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Posted: March 28 2006 at 4:24am |
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Linda, Some of us know how to cook 1800s and depression style and can make a LOT of different things from the most basic supplies. Start looking around now for cookbooks and recipes using BASIC ingredients. Some of the major cookbook publishers are republishing retro cookbooks of the 30s-50s and they are readily available and quite good. Also many antique cookbooks are being republished, but I find those less helpful than the 30-50s ones most of the time. Yard sales are starting up. Look for those moldy tattered shreds of cookbooks as they are treasures if you want to cook from little more than flour and meal.
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lkay
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Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:57am |
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Hello guys. Newbie here. (very new) so let me first say thank you to all for the info here. I've mentioned bird flu to several people this week and can you believe I got "bird flu, what's that?" more than a few times. I told my family I bet Noah felt the same way! No one around me seems to be the least bit concerned. I won't stop trying to inform my family and friends though. I may not be much help here because I'm so new at this, but maybe I can spread it as I learn it.
I have a couple questions. I've tried to search for the answers here before I ask (and also not to appear stupid) but I can't find them. Are you guys already collecting water? or do we wait until we hear of cases in the US? I mean, if I collect it now, will it still be good to drink in a few months?
And TNbebo, I saw that you were buying 200 lbs of flour and meal. I can't think of that many things I'll be able to use flour and meal for if things get really bad other than cornbread or dumplings? lol what else is there? I really want to know.
Maybe it's just my nerves, and I'm still in the "running around like a chicken with it's head cut off" stage but this seems to be making me eat more the last few days. Maybe it's the idea of one day not being able to get anything I want to eat. That or I'm trying to put on fat for hibernation....it's probably just the nerves.
Thanks again. Linda
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Scott
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Posted: March 26 2006 at 11:24am |
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TRIGGER LIST.
Last minute Trigger List: 1. 3/4 inch plywood to board windows etc. Mounting the board on the inside so all you can see outside is the curtain. -Low Profile. 2. More Wheat, beans and rice. 3. Fill all 55 gallon water drums and containers that I have purchased and collected. 4. Park cars in back yard (fenced) close to one another so you cannot easily siphon from my vehicle. 5. Start Carrying pistol in the house (concealed holster). I hate this whole bird flu thing!!!!!! Just hate it!!!! |
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As the Dark Horse Approaches.
Improvise Adapt and Overcome! |
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Amethyst
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Posted: March 26 2006 at 10:49am |
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My last minute buys will be for things like baking supplies (flour, sugar, baking soda and the like) and bottled water. Maybe some more rice or pasta.
I agree that most people will only buy for a week or two if TSHTF. They're going to hope that the flu won't last long, as if hoping will make it actually happen.
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TNbebo408
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Posted: March 26 2006 at 7:42am |
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Omega, you may be correct, thats why I intend to be in the know, and act fast for last minute stuff.
My last minute buys are for the longterm, most people will be after bread, milk, maybe even powdered milk and tuna. I base this on how they act when it snows, they are so used to buying for three days, and I bet they will do the same if TSHTF. |
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Don't blow your kids lunch money for things they may never need.
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omega
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Posted: March 25 2006 at 8:12am |
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I think that the stores will have been emptied by people in the know in the days immediately before the general public learns of an H2H pandemic.
Even if it were safe to go to a store, I believe that many stores would not be open, and those that were, would have strict quantity limits. And who knows if it would be safe to be in such a crowd of non-preppers, anyway.... |
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RicheeRich
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Posted: March 25 2006 at 6:54am |
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There are several tricks to MRE's:
Buy them NEW from the manufacturer, not military surplus, or from someone on the internet, since there is no way to verify past storage conditions. Military surplus have been abused terribly, stored at high temperatures for years, usually 4 or 5 years, since the gov's are quite efficient at rotating their inventories.
When you buy these new, and store properly (room temp or below), they are quite tasty (at least the SOPAKCO ones). They are similar to any frozen dinner once heated. A single meal package can last you up to a full day, depending on how many calories you are used to stuffing into your face.
I don't bother with chemical heaters, since it just creates more garbage, and they are a hazmat until used up. The microwave for one minute, or dropped in hot water for 5 minutes, or on a hot dashboard, does the trick. Lots of times, I don't even bother heating them, since they are fully cooked.
Beware of differences in manufacturers. There is one called "Heater Meals" that's popular, and put out by folks that hold the patent on the chemical heater. Unfortunately, their packaging leaves much to be desired, and so the shelf life is only 3 years (max, at optimal conditions)
The cheapest way to buy is by the pallet (576 meals), direct from Crown Point Foods, in Mullens, S.C. The shipment will weigh 950 lbs, so you need to have delivered to a commercial loading dock. If you don't have access to one, there are "public warehouses" that will take delivery for a small amount of money.
I understand that it sounds like alot of food, but it's really only a few month's worth, depending on family (or extended family) size. Also, you can always arrange to split the order with one or two other preppers, if you like.
The sodium content varies with the particular food item, but is not bad in mine, since extreme packaging is the trick to the long shelf life, not salting.
Good Luck, which ever way you go !!!
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 11:46am |
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Mre' taste like cafeteria food, not oo bad. Alot of tomato sauce but over all when combined with store stuff not too bad. variety is the key to food fatigue.
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fritz
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 11:42am |
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RicheeRich, Have you tried (sampled) any of those MRE? I heard they taste like alpo. I also have alot of long term storage items but I got "whole foods" like Freeze Dried fruits, veggies and milk, eggs all in #10 cans (I am unable to lift or move a superpail (much cheaper) by myself so I ruled that out for me. Some MRE shakes (hi in protien) and mac n cheese. I have done this over several years and I don't think those that are just starting to prep at this time have the luxury of spreading out the cost over such a long time. I also have an extensive library on cooking with these type of ingredients as well as general cooking experience and a well stocked inventory of wet goods to use in combination with the FD or dehydrated stuff to make it more paletable. Those MRE's are loaded with sodium and I don't use salt in my everyday life now and my BP is high enough as it is! Just some things to consider. I don't buy anything with MSG in it either b/c it's not in my diet now. Also, I think 10 years is an average of MRE food stored under optimum conditions, not a garuantee, some will be more and some less. You may need to reassess your inventory in terms of real life senario. Are you feeding kids as well? Did you get alot of those auto heaters? Do you have a means of heating &/or cooking if no pwr? I have some of everything b/c I think we really won't know what worse case senario will really look like but in my mind I'm picturing Katrina like conditions from coast to coast for a very long time. It's been over 6 months & it looks like one week and the rest of the country is doing just dandy. I just can't get over this reality! Just sucks big time!
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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RicheeRich
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 9:35am |
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Since I have 10 year shelf life on my food (M.R.E.'s), I guess I over-simplified my advice. It would be a better idea for most people to wait on a large purchase, but in the mean time, you can keep a VERY full pantry of things you commonly eat, rotating the stocks as needed to keep everything fresh. If stuff starts to spoil, then you have too much. |
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Amethyst
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 9:18am |
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I think TNbebo408 has a very good point. Buying a ton of staples like flour, rice, and meal right now won't do much good if the bird flu stays in birds for a year or two. OTOH, at the first sign of H2H in the US, even if it's in Alaska, I definitely will go out and get more stuff. I have a lot of canned stuff at the moment and some pasta & rice as well. But getting more than a two-month supply won't do me a lot of good if I can't rotate the food before it expires. Especially since I'm single and don't have to worry about providing for any kids or significant others. |
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Chuck-91
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 7:42am |
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Mary Kay, I have put some of my money in bullion coins,may not be useful to me but possibly to descendants. Also put money into VERY good library, acid free paper,leather bindings, same logic as above. Purchased small pickup w campershell for 2nd car,good gas mileage,useful.Keeping a couple of grand at each daughters house, mostly 20"s but also 50"s. You mentioned 80 grand, thats more then I have to worry about but you might convert some of it to foreign cash, maybe Swiss francs, Australian dollars,English pounds. Some countries may come out a lot better off then others. Just a suggestion.
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Those who will not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.
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TNbebo408
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 7:25am |
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My answers to the questions about this idea. Number one, this thread got folks to thinking.
Beth and Moolooman, look at my list, 200 pounds of meal, and flour will last us, well beyond it's expiration dates. To buy this stuff now, would be a waste of my money, even if TSHTF did happen late this year, the flour, and meal could be ruined. Richie Rich came back to my original point, if TSHTF? This list is short, 4 bags of beans, 4 bags of rice, 8 each of flour and meal. This is 24 bags, we can sling them in two buggies or pile them on one and be gone. The 43 minutes it took us to make the trial run was on a heavy traffic day, and we stopped and filled some gas cans and the truck on the way home. We have 17 minutes spare to pump 50 more gallons of gas. Notice, I said first human case in the US, we may have birds with it for a year before a human gets it. Just because it's in birds, doesn't mean it will wipe us off the face of the earth. |
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Don't blow your kids lunch money for things they may never need.
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 7:04am |
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I'm not merely concerned about having paper money in my hand for emergencies,I already have considerable sums squirreled away. I'm considering the real,{real to me anyway}possiblity of a severe pandemic where the economy collapses and the govenment decides the debts too high, so let's not pay. Is that too "way out" thinking? I would pay off my house to hold my money in something tangible, that looters can't steal, while kicking my mortgage payment. Then I can sing, "Don't cry for me Argentina!" Mary Kay |
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Amethyst
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 6:49am |
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I really don't see how money is going to help long-term if it is a worst-case scenario. Money would probably be worthless. Better to stock up on trade items. As for candy, I noticed that Target has a bunch of St. Patrick's day and Easter stuff on sale lately. |
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RicheeRich
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 5:48am |
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Good point on 9/11! The way in which I think BF differs is how slowly and surely it is developing. 9/11 came as a complete surprise. We have lots of time now for people to ponder this, and so panic can build up over time, even if it's not really warranted. At the very least, we all need to take some action to protect ourselves, and our investments, from this aspect of BF. And of course, in so doing, we help to create the panic. Pretty cool, huh? |
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KatDoe67
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 5:42am |
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I heard many of the banks closed on 9/11, but so few of us were trying to go to the bank that we didn't notice.
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RicheeRich
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 5:23am |
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Muskrat, Cash will be essential, but if you have equity in your home, probably no need to rush out and pay it off early. Your equity is a valuable bargaining chip with your bank, and can be used later if needed. I'm hoping that cash will keep it's value. If we get an extreme loss of confidence in the currency, it can faulter, or fail. The replacement currency could not possibly be based on "the full faith and credit of the U.S. governemt", since people would be wise to that. Perhaps it would be replaced by Campbell's Chunky Soup, or some other "meal unit" |
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RicheeRich
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 5:18am |
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The TSHTF list should be really, really SHORT. All of these preps should be completed beforehand. The only thing left on my list is a midnight visit to my self-storage space, accompanied by a couple of carefully chosen friends. (And I pity-da-fool that becomes their enemy) |
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 4:16am |
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Posted: March 19 2006 at 4:04am |
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I want to add to the prepareness list and yes this will sound funny..kitty pan liners...I have 2 boxs of them here but I do not use them for the kitty pans..last spring I mixed multch and soil togerther and did this in cardboard boxes and I lined the boxs with a kitty litter liner...but his morning..don,t know why...but it jumped into my mind they could be used to line your toilet should the water go down...and get the kind that have the pull handles in them... I think I read somewhere to save your grocery store handle bags for this..but I am wondering would they not be to small..so I am going to stock up on kitty box liners for this ... |
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Posted: March 18 2006 at 9:55pm |
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Question: What do you think about removing large amounts of cash from your bank account? I'm slowly removing cash from my account. I'm considering paying off the house and pulling my money till all this is over. If chaos comes, I think there will be a huge run on banks and they wont be able to pay out as they have limited cash on hand. I was amazed to discover just how little cash a bank holds. I asked about removing 80K and they said that might be a problem. If things get to "panic" stage will the banks close? What if the government orders banks closed? They CAN do that. MK |
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moolooman
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Joined: March 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: March 18 2006 at 9:20pm |
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Very sneeky, that whole reverse physcology will work gold. But maybe if you leave it to the last minute your just like your neighbors perhaps?
Exposing yourself to a last minute rush just leaves you open to bird flu.
Like we always used to say in the army, be a gray man, but dont fit in with the general population. |
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Bird flu will enter like a thief in the night and inflict its "disgusting" rath for the unprepped.
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Posted: March 18 2006 at 9:16pm |
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Well Dumbo, Some of us have limited funds. Some of us have prepped on the installment plan. Some of us have lists of items that we will purchase ONLY if TSHTF is imminent. My last minute list is tacked to my fridge and it is an ever evolving thing as I acquire or decide that an item really isn't needed or an item is suggested here that I hadn't thought of. YMMV. |
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Posted: March 18 2006 at 9:10pm |
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Can't answer for TN but I have a last minute list and cash which will give me a chance to show my neighbors I am as worried as them and have just what they do...oh poor me. Also it will help and tie up some last minute preps. I figure while everyone is at the store And i am home folks will notice. My cache is confidential
 act like the locals obviously if there is sickness I stay home.
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moolooman
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Posted: March 18 2006 at 8:28pm |
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[QUOTE=TNbebo408]I carry a list of last minute stuff in my truck, I also carry double the price of todays prices in cash for this stuff. Keep both together and ready, to run through the store marking it off when loading it in a buggy.
I drew a map of the store we would go to, with each item numbered in order of priority marked on the map of the store. Lists are short 100 pound beans, 100 pounds of rice, 200 pounds each of flour, meal and any canned meats on the shelf. Call me a dumbo here, but why dont you just buy that stuff now??!! |
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Bird flu will enter like a thief in the night and inflict its "disgusting" rath for the unprepped.
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omega
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Joined: March 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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Posted: March 17 2006 at 3:23pm |
Yes, if it's still safe to go to a grocery store, then that's what I'd be most interested in too, the fresh fruits & vegetables, and dairy foods. Even when the price is superb, I NEVER buy more than a dozen of any one item at a time, because I dont want all my stored goods to originate from one factory on one day --- I want a good variety. For instance, with TUNA -- I'd prefer to pick up half a dozen cans at a time, never more, because I'm spreading out the possibility of having ALL MY STORED FISH come from one old diseased mercury laden tuna fish -- by buying smaller quantities, more often, I've reduced the risk of that, and also reduced the risk of having my cupboard become bare due to a recall. |
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