Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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RicheeRich
Valued Member Joined: February 08 2006 Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Since I have 10 year shelf life on my food (M.R.E.'s), I guess I over-simplified my advice. It would be a better idea for most people to wait on a large purchase, but in the mean time, you can keep a VERY full pantry of things you commonly eat, rotating the stocks as needed to keep everything fresh. If stuff starts to spoil, then you have too much. |
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fritz
Adviser Group Joined: February 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 332 |
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RicheeRich, Have you tried (sampled) any of those MRE? I heard they taste like alpo. I also have alot of long term storage items but I got "whole foods" like Freeze Dried fruits, veggies and milk, eggs all in #10 cans (I am unable to lift or move a superpail (much cheaper) by myself so I ruled that out for me. Some MRE shakes (hi in protien) and mac n cheese. I have done this over several years and I don't think those that are just starting to prep at this time have the luxury of spreading out the cost over such a long time. I also have an extensive library on cooking with these type of ingredients as well as general cooking experience and a well stocked inventory of wet goods to use in combination with the FD or dehydrated stuff to make it more paletable. Those MRE's are loaded with sodium and I don't use salt in my everyday life now and my BP is high enough as it is! Just some things to consider. I don't buy anything with MSG in it either b/c it's not in my diet now. Also, I think 10 years is an average of MRE food stored under optimum conditions, not a garuantee, some will be more and some less. You may need to reassess your inventory in terms of real life senario. Are you feeding kids as well? Did you get alot of those auto heaters? Do you have a means of heating &/or cooking if no pwr? I have some of everything b/c I think we really won't know what worse case senario will really look like but in my mind I'm picturing Katrina like conditions from coast to coast for a very long time. It's been over 6 months & it looks like one week and the rest of the country is doing just dandy. I just can't get over this reality! Just sucks big time!
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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Mre' taste like cafeteria food, not oo bad. Alot of tomato sauce but over all when combined with store stuff not too bad. variety is the key to food fatigue.
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RicheeRich
Valued Member Joined: February 08 2006 Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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There are several tricks to MRE's:
Buy them NEW from the manufacturer, not military surplus, or from someone on the internet, since there is no way to verify past storage conditions. Military surplus have been abused terribly, stored at high temperatures for years, usually 4 or 5 years, since the gov's are quite efficient at rotating their inventories.
When you buy these new, and store properly (room temp or below), they are quite tasty (at least the SOPAKCO ones). They are similar to any frozen dinner once heated. A single meal package can last you up to a full day, depending on how many calories you are used to stuffing into your face.
I don't bother with chemical heaters, since it just creates more garbage, and they are a hazmat until used up. The microwave for one minute, or dropped in hot water for 5 minutes, or on a hot dashboard, does the trick. Lots of times, I don't even bother heating them, since they are fully cooked.
Beware of differences in manufacturers. There is one called "Heater Meals" that's popular, and put out by folks that hold the patent on the chemical heater. Unfortunately, their packaging leaves much to be desired, and so the shelf life is only 3 years (max, at optimal conditions)
The cheapest way to buy is by the pallet (576 meals), direct from Crown Point Foods, in Mullens, S.C. The shipment will weigh 950 lbs, so you need to have delivered to a commercial loading dock. If you don't have access to one, there are "public warehouses" that will take delivery for a small amount of money.
I understand that it sounds like alot of food, but it's really only a few month's worth, depending on family (or extended family) size. Also, you can always arrange to split the order with one or two other preppers, if you like.
The sodium content varies with the particular food item, but is not bad in mine, since extreme packaging is the trick to the long shelf life, not salting.
Good Luck, which ever way you go !!!
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omega
Valued Member Joined: March 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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I think that the stores will have been emptied by people in the know in the days immediately before the general public learns of an H2H pandemic.
Even if it were safe to go to a store, I believe that many stores would not be open, and those that were, would have strict quantity limits. And who knows if it would be safe to be in such a crowd of non-preppers, anyway.... |
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TNbebo408
Adviser Group Joined: December 10 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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Omega, you may be correct, thats why I intend to be in the know, and act fast for last minute stuff.
My last minute buys are for the longterm, most people will be after bread, milk, maybe even powdered milk and tuna. I base this on how they act when it snows, they are so used to buying for three days, and I bet they will do the same if TSHTF. |
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Don't blow your kids lunch money for things they may never need.
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Amethyst
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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My last minute buys will be for things like baking supplies (flour, sugar, baking soda and the like) and bottled water. Maybe some more rice or pasta.
I agree that most people will only buy for a week or two if TSHTF. They're going to hope that the flu won't last long, as if hoping will make it actually happen.
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Scott
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 06 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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TRIGGER LIST.
Last minute Trigger List: 1. 3/4 inch plywood to board windows etc. Mounting the board on the inside so all you can see outside is the curtain. -Low Profile. 2. More Wheat, beans and rice. 3. Fill all 55 gallon water drums and containers that I have purchased and collected. 4. Park cars in back yard (fenced) close to one another so you cannot easily siphon from my vehicle. 5. Start Carrying pistol in the house (concealed holster). I hate this whole bird flu thing!!!!!! Just hate it!!!! |
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As the Dark Horse Approaches.
Improvise Adapt and Overcome! |
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lkay
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Hello guys. Newbie here. (very new) so let me first say thank you to all for the info here. I've mentioned bird flu to several people this week and can you believe I got "bird flu, what's that?" more than a few times. I told my family I bet Noah felt the same way! No one around me seems to be the least bit concerned. I won't stop trying to inform my family and friends though. I may not be much help here because I'm so new at this, but maybe I can spread it as I learn it.
I have a couple questions. I've tried to search for the answers here before I ask (and also not to appear stupid) but I can't find them. Are you guys already collecting water? or do we wait until we hear of cases in the US? I mean, if I collect it now, will it still be good to drink in a few months?
And TNbebo, I saw that you were buying 200 lbs of flour and meal. I can't think of that many things I'll be able to use flour and meal for if things get really bad other than cornbread or dumplings? lol what else is there? I really want to know.
Maybe it's just my nerves, and I'm still in the "running around like a chicken with it's head cut off" stage but this seems to be making me eat more the last few days. Maybe it's the idea of one day not being able to get anything I want to eat. That or I'm trying to put on fat for hibernation....it's probably just the nerves.
Thanks again. Linda
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KatDoe67
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 02 2006 Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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Linda, Some of us know how to cook 1800s and depression style and can make a LOT of different things from the most basic supplies. Start looking around now for cookbooks and recipes using BASIC ingredients. Some of the major cookbook publishers are republishing retro cookbooks of the 30s-50s and they are readily available and quite good. Also many antique cookbooks are being republished, but I find those less helpful than the 30-50s ones most of the time. Yard sales are starting up. Look for those moldy tattered shreds of cookbooks as they are treasures if you want to cook from little more than flour and meal.
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lkay
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Thanks KatDoe. I'm realizing more each day I have a lot to learn...but I'm doing it each day, making list, and picking things up almost daily. I love garage sales, but I think when I hit them this year, I'll be looking at what I need to get in a whole different light. Today I found a website on Kitchen Gardening, Growing Herbs, and some pressure cooker recipes. At home now I have boxes of stuff that I had intended to give away to local churches. As bad as it sounds, I may need to go back thru the stuff and reconsider what needs to go...(including some old cookbooks). Thanks again.
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Ironstone
Valued Member Joined: March 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Ikay, some may be storing water. I still have water coming out of the tap so that is not a priority issue for me right now. I do have plastic garbage bags full of empty food bottles hanging from the garage rafters. I believe i will have plenty of time to fill them as everything will not shut off with no warning. I will be aware of illness in my area and fill the bottles at that time.
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Ironstone
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lkay
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Thanks Ironstone. That makes very good sense to me. I may fill my 55 gal drum with water to make sure it's nice and clean since it's set up a while, and then use it to water my trees and shrubs after a couple months. I'll wait on filling my other containers...and thanks for the idea of hanging them from the rafers!
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Mary kay, it is difficult to make a sound financial decision in this environment, there are simply too many unknowns. Let me try out a few different scenarios:
1. You pay off your house soon:
a. Your debt free - Good
b. You loose your tax deduction - Bad
2. If we have H2H:
a. We might have deflation, prizes drop, because too few people are working, no money. If we have deflation, that means interst rates will drop ala Japan, you could refinance at much lower rates than what you currently have, so to pay it off now would cost you money.
b. We have inflation - You're ahead of the game!
c. Inflation leads to hyperinflation: Fed uses this "opportunity" to inflate the US out of its enormous debt: Money in its current form will be worthless in a very short period of time. You're way ahead of the game.
In my personal opinion, and, please, take that for what you pay for it:
1. Pay off credit card debt
2. Pay off car
3. Make advance payments on utilities
4. Make advance payments on your mrtgage, will steeply reduce your overall interest and give you time to gather additional information.
5. Take cash out of the bank in amounts less than 10K, otherwise it WILL be reported to the IRS.
6. convert some to pgysical gold and silver. Has ALWAYS retained its buying power thru-out human history!!
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Femvet,
I am good with #5, no problem taking money out of the bank in less than 10K increments, it is the other five that give me the most problem.
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Ironstone
Valued Member Joined: March 13 2006 Status: Offline Points: 383 |
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Best thing that ever happened to me was having no credit after a divorce. I learned to live without creditcards. When i was able to afford a home i was deluged with offers to sign up for another. Too late, i did not need them. I seldom use a TV and have a small B&W, about 8 inches, i would guess. in the garage i have two brand new color ones still in the boxes. Guess people felt sorry for me and tried to move me into the remote control age. Habit, in living and spending, will detrmine how well we do in this. I was lucky.
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Ironstone
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BamSteve, would very much appreciate your thinking. Different opinions very much welcome.
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Femvet,
I would agree with your points - I am just too poor to do it (My sarcastic sense of humor always gets me in trouble). Although I guess if I really believed that society is going to degrade to the level being discussed - I would pull money out of retirement plans, take the penalty and pay off debt/mortgage. For myself, I don't believe that would be a wise decision based on my perception of the current threat. I would think that quite a few people have 401K or IRAs and I wonder how many people have removed their money from those plans. Those plans could be worthless a year or two from now in a widespread economic meltdown. I am betting that the melt down does not occur. But I am watching the cards as they come out of the deck and reserve the right to change.
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Femvet,I heartily agree. Get outta debt,this would seem a no brainer, but of course, you know people are materialistic and greedy, they borrow, spend, borrow, spend, borrow. Advance payments does have an advantage, the money is safe somewhere. Good thinkin'. The only survivors are people with no debt, owning a house, cash in hand, and an over packed cupboard, period. BTW, if this plague hits hard, and folks start dyin' causing empty houses to flood the market, it will bring a downward spiral in the market. I'm selling my rental houses now and possibly my residence after hurricane season. I have heard people say, don't worry if you can't make your mortgage, we'll all be in the same boat, the banks won't take our homes away. Well, don't be too sure about that. Remember, all rich investors need to put down is 10% and if noone wants to buy your house at it's present value, the bank will take whatever it can get, and that may be considerably lower than todays market value. Imagine losing all your equity. Someone buys your house for a song and you're out on the street. Don't say it can't happen, it did, it was called the great depression. My grandfather lost his home and his 11 children were on the streets until they found a much smaller house. My mom still cries when she tells the story. Concerning inflation, I see first inflation, as supply and demand will increase prices. But if the flu goes to a third wave and it's a super killer, then yes, it could become a deflationary market, but this of course would take time. HOWEVER one would have to include the calculation of the monies/estates inherited from the victims of AF. There may develop a deeper chasm between the haves and the have nots. MK |
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ladybug
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Many of the local banks in Southeast Louisiana were closed for several weeks after Hurricane Katrina hit, and most stores were operating on a cash only basis. Fuel was prepay only and there were people filling 55 gallon drums of gasoline up as well as lines miles long at the pump to fuel up. It was unbelievable, and we are 70 miles north of New Orleans. Power was out in our area for almost a month and so was the water due to possible contamination. Stores were out of everything and suprisingly enough our Walmart Supercenter is still not open 24/7 because they are unable to keep the shelves stocked due to the number of people who have relocated from areas that recieved alot more damage than we did- Damage in our area was extensive, but being 70 miles away from the storm helped buffer the blow a little. Storefronts were blown out, roofs torn off,trees on houses and vehicles, and mobile homes were flipped onto their sides here. We plan to be prepared for this, we have 6 children depending on us to be, but it sure is scary!
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Mississipp Mama
Valued Member Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 524 |
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Ladybug you sound like you are in my home town Hattiesburg. We plan to be a lot better prepared, I'm looking into getting a hand pump well. We bought 3 porta potties like the ones the construction guys use. Picked them uptoday. Our walmart is reopen 24/7 but it'hard for them to keep the shelves stocked. I hate to see what's going to happen if and when the SHTF.
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My last minute preps will be candy flour pancake mix cake mix dried fruit.
I am buying canned food and water and rice now paper products last.
Also I bought radio and batteries the last time we had a power outage .
I bought a generator too.
I will buy electronic next wind radio battery tv walkie takies
funny thing is the generator makes me feel safe . I dont want to rely on candles I will use candles when Ineed to look I wiil buy solar lights.
I see this lasting 18 months and in waves .I still beleive cash will be the currency needed but gold and liquior will be king for awhile I will be taking cash out for spending
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K_Ohio
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If chaos comes, I think there will be a huge run on banks and they wont be able to pay out as they have limited cash on hand. I was amazed to discover just how little cash a bank holds.
I asked about removing 80K and they said that might be a problem. You have 80K???? Damn I'm in trouble. I live paycheck to paycheck with 7 kids to raise and not a farm animal in sight. I've been trying though $20 here $50 there. It's gonna take awhile but at least I've started. |
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sweetpea
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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I'm curious what one would do with $80K? I hope you have a good safe at home, you could keep it stashed there until the banks are back to normal again. I figure when TSHTF that our world would become a world of bartering for goods, money wouldn't be of much use except that it's just another piece of paper ...
I have a different mindset, that a majority of my savings is my personal storage ... and whatever pidley amount I have left in savings, well I'll just have to trust FDIC with that. I might keep several hundred out for minor purchases at first, but soon money will become useless when people start to run out of food and water ... that when the bartering begins ...
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"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Amethyst
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 203 |
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Personally, if I had that much money saved up, I'd buy a house, or a small cabin up north if I already had a house. I live in an apartment right now and if a pandemic hits, I'd probably be safer outside of the city than in it. But a house would be more secure than an apartment (IMHO).
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sweetpea
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 299 |
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Amythest ... that is a very good idea, and with what MIGHT be left, just add more supplies ...
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"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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TNbebo408
Adviser Group Joined: December 10 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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80K, dang and I thought I was set with 500 bucks hid in my truck??????
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Don't blow your kids lunch money for things they may never need.
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Let me give some encouragement about saving money. Yep, I have alot now, even after "purchasing" six adopted kids. Adoption wasn't cheap, even though 5 of my kids were handicapped. I stayed home 15 years to raise them, gave up my nursing career. We were thrifty. I clipped coupons,and bought what we "needed." Went to yard sales alot. Hair cuts by mom. No $25.00 fake nails, no cable TV, no new cars, a simple life, but a good life.
But MOST importantly we gave God His share and He has ALWAYS blessed us. : ) MK |
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