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North Korea must be stopped

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Medclinician View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 04 2017 at 4:02am
Despite some earlier displays of action in Syria and Afghanistan, a historical even has occurred. North Korea under Kim Jong-Un launched a successful ICBM capable of carrying a nuclear warhead and delivering a payload to nearly any place on earth.

Diplomacy has been tried and failed with North Korea and just as it failed with Iran, unless there is some kind of response, it is only a matter of time until they launch missile and can hit not only California targets, but Washington D.C. as well.

Everyone is grumbling, but with the surety that they would attack Seoul and more than 25 million people would die, nothing will be done.

It would appear the people are more interested in the daily Jerry Springer show with Trump tweets and juvenile antics, which I personally am becoming embarrassed by. If I were giving advise I would say stop with the tweets - have formal press conferences and get out of the mud wrestling CNN. It is petty and juvenile and we have much bigger fish to fry on the world stage.

Leave the press alone.

I woke up from another nuclear nightmare in the middle of the night once more to log in and ready this stuff.

It is serious. I have posted hundreds of times of what would happen with a nuclear exchange and if there is not a surgical strike, which no nuclear power would retaliate against or Kim Jong-Un is not "removed" from power,  this is going to happen.

All the big parade of ships and Armadas and threats and how we would not tolerate a nuclear North Korea mean nothing. It is all words.

America is a less safe place to live today and we are on the verge of being attacked by North Korea and especially being drawn in a war in Korea any day.  Not if, but when.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 4:17am
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/03/asia/north-korea-missile-japan-waters/index.html

(CNN)North Korea claims to have conducted its first successful test of a long-range missile that it says can "reach anywhere in the world."

Tuesday morning's missile test, which was conducted on the orders of the country's leader, Kim Jong Un, reached a height of 2,802 kilometers (1,741 miles), according to state broadcaster Korea Central Television (KCTV).
That's the highest altitude ever reached by a North Korean missile, and puts the US on notice that Pyongyang could potentially hit the US mainland.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 4:47am
I could not agree more, Med!  I know things will get nasty if anyone tackles NK, but the longer it is left the nast-IER it will be.  That dictator and his minions (nothing cute or yellow about those guys) is a very serious threat to civilization as  a whole.

Whether or not Trump has had Russian help in the elections, he gets on better than most with them.  This could be to everyone's advantage.  It is time to get all the big powers on board, irrespecitve of previous alliances, and lay down the law to the dictatorship - being prepared to enforce it in whatever way is necessary, including war if that is what it takes.

I understand this is horrific.  But, it must not be unthinkable to the West.  It is definitely not unthinkable to Kim Jong Un.

It is obvious, I do not like Trump.  But, he may just be the best President we could have in this situation.  The appeasers failed to reign in the space cockroach.  Now, the bully needs to have a go.  Maybe he will do better.

One thing is inescapable:  The longer it is left, the worse it will get.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 5:18am
With regards to the belligerence and the obvious stage three threat posed by North Korea: North Korea must now be considered an enemy state and as such, its leader and all military personnel, as enemy assets.  

I know for a fact there are plenty of Korean, Chinese, Japanese and probably many other people of mongoloid race in the military of the United States.  

I honestly believe the answer is to dispatch a specifically trained K-unit to South Korea or a coastal area of North Korea giving access to the North Korean assets.  "Presents" of take down ordinance, or easily carried ordinance, could be supplied within South Korea, or carried in to the North.  

The purpose of the K-unit is to eliminate the the enemy assets with a wet removal.

Failing this, absolute identification of the position of the enemy assets can be ascertained by satellite and a high accuracy, maximum penetration device launched: thus removing the threat.  I am sure that the removal of the present enemy assets would bring about a internal revolution resulting in the removal of the core problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 5:33am
Don't you think it funny,USA sails close by islands,and next day a missile is launched....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 9:21am
I heard there were snipers that were itching to be put within a mile of Saddam Hussein pre-Gulf War, and it would seem simple enough to fix this whole mess by surgically removing Kim Jong-un. The entire issue would seem to come down to one man (I use the term loosely) who has an entire country gripped by fear, and it's easy to think that any regime change at this point has to be an improvement, but I remember thinking how much better it was going to be when Kim Jong-il died and his son took over. It's hard for us to imagine what it must be like to live in a nation force fed propaganda for generations with nothing from the outside to counter it, but we have to remember that this all started a long time ago, but not so far back that the north hasn't forgotten what happened during the Korean War.

They started the aggression by invading the south, but the US led coalitions response under the watch of military leaders like Gen. Douglas MacArthur was beyond brutal. We carpet bombed the country to the point that Air Force commanders complained of nothing above one story left to bomb, yet they continued for a further year. We dropped more ordinance and napalm on the peninsula than the entire Pacific campaign during World War II, and killed twenty percent of the population. MacArthur at one point suggested ending the war in ten days with a string of 30-50 atomic bombs that would have “spread behind us … a belt of radioactive cobalt.”

None of this comes close to justifying what Kim Jong-un has done to his own people because that is just self serving dictatorship at it's most extreme, but we have to see it from the perspective of the North Koreans who deeply distrust the west based on real events. He - and his father and grandfather before him - have successfully used history to brainwash his people to the point that it's now impossible for anyone outside of North Korea to predict whether his assassination would cause them to celebrate or rise up. I personally suspect the latter, but to what effect is anyone's guess. And with maybe a couple of dozens nukes in play, that could be a pretty expensive gamble.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 9:42am
Yep!  But, getting all the more dangerous every day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 9:43am
With every missile test, and new - and likely more powerful - nuclear device...
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 10:56am
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 11:09am
And it gets worse.  Yesterday within the same time frame, the Nasdaq took a cyber attack that decreased the shares of Amazon, google, and others by over 80%.  Coincidence?    This recently happened to the bitcoin, and I'm not buying the "glitch" theory.   Most likely a cyber attack, although if the feds mention that it will send the markets into collapse. 


Amazon and Google share prices were wrongly reported down more than 80% after test data went live

Nasdaq says it is investigating how wildly inaccurate share-price information for a range of major US tech stocks went live on large consumer information services, including Bloomberg’s trading platform as well as Google Finance and Yahoo Finance.

Headline price figures for Amazon and for Google's parent company, Alphabet, were displaying as down by more than 80% as a result of the error, which emerged after US markets closed.

Share prices for Amazon, Alphabet, Apple, and Microsoft are all being returned as $123.47. Prices for about 16 stocks were affected.

A Nasdaq spokesman told Business Insider that the exchange's unlisted trading privileges service sent out some test data that was wrongly sent live on Bloomberg.

“As part of its normal process, the UTP distributed normal test data, and certain third parties improperly consumed and propagated that data," the spokesman said. "Nasdaq is working with UTP and third parties to resolve the matter."

Bloomberg has been contacted for comment.

Here are the (somewhat terrifying)

Google: being marked down 86%

goog Google marked down. Business Insider Australia

Amazon: down 87%

gf_amzn

Amazon marked down.

Business Insider AustraliaGoogle: being marked down 86%

goog Google marked down. Business Insider Australia

Amazon: down 87%

            

             Google: being marked down 86%

               http://www.businessinsider.com/google-share-prices-reported-down-80-2017-7

Apple: relatively unscathed, down 14%

aapl Business Insider Australia   

       Google: being marked down 86%

goog

Google marked down.

Business Insider Australia Google: being marked down 86%

goog Google marked down. Business Insider Australia                     

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-share-prices-reported-down-80-2017-7


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 11:21am
The fed think tanks will have to first determine why all the prices hit $123.47, or 12347. 

https://archive.org/stream/gov.in.is.12347.1988/is.12347.1988_djvu.txt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 12:54pm
Damn - how did they get my PIN?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 1:03pm
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 3:06pm
WinkOOPS 
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 4:05pm
I'm just glad I was able to buy Amazon on the 80% dip.   Yahooo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2017 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

Damn - how did they get my PIN?




probably cause' you were using  MY pin "1-2-3-4" ???LOL

and in other news

Officials Confirm North Korea Launched ICBM, Say U.S. ‘Prepared To Defend Ourselves’


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-korea-missile_us_595aeea2e4b05c37bb7fdb9b?6pc&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009


"

Kim used the launch to taunt the United States during its Independence Day holiday, calling the missile a “gift” to Americans.

“We should send them gifts once in a while to help break their boredom,” he said, according to the country’s state-run news agency."


this was a DIRECT IN YER FACE provocation

PLENTY of tough talk AGAIN from everyone

but ACTION  ???


Trumps first really BIG test


and he is operating from a position of weakness

the French ambassador to the US just said that Trump is "harming global stability"

and the Germans are upset with him and making their displeasure known QUITE publicly now

and other world leaders are now referring to Angela Merkel as "the leader of the free world"

and not Trump



“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2017 at 3:11pm
thats all we need "Jerry"at the top.......lol.....


Mr Chuchill will be turning in his grave..........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2017 at 6:04am
It is likely but very scary that the U.S. is about to take military action to stop North Korea. China agrees that North Korea is more than just it's problem and is massing forces on the border as well as preparing for the detonation of a nuclear device by the U.S.

What do they know that we don't?  There is no easy surgical strike and it is for sure they will attack and level Seoul with any strike by the U.S.. 20,000,000 people will die.

There is no way we can take out all of the facilities yet it is only a matter of time before they launch nukes on California and other targets in the U.S.

The American military combined with others powerful armed forces may set in motion a war. Just because it is not that much in the news does not mean a lot is not happening behind the scenes.

Medclinician


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2017 at 6:22am
All I know is; the longer we wait, the worse it gets.

I am no Trumpette (feel free to precede that with an s if you like) but he just might be the best option here.  The diplomacy (without gunboat) from those who came before him, failed miserably.  I believe it will continue to do so, until whichever Kim Jong is in power at the time can just walk in and take what he likes. 

Trump, on the other hand, has no self control.  Well, self control failed.  Go Trump!

How about nukes on the interior; daisycutters or moabs on the border?  Ok, so that  is  horrible.  I have no defense except -  The alternative is so much worse.  That which is unthinkable to us, is not unthinkable to NK.  

The time when action could have made a difference without such a huge cost came and went decades ago.  Instead the West imposed sanctions.  How many have starved to death?  'And to what end?  The West just gets blamed in NK and so have given the Kims an excuse to  make weapons and train a huge army.  By any yardstick that is shooting yourself in the foot.

I seem to remember that Chamberlain tried to appease the Nazis.  Anyone believe that worked?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2017 at 3:34pm
North Korea just launched another ICBM with flew 45 minutes - the longest yet and flew 7 time higher than one of our orbiting weather stations. The military made a flatly inaccurate state that it would be a year before they had the capability to target Alaska, Seattle, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. They have it now.

It is beyond my comprehension how the soap opera continues to berate and attack President Donald Trump who is the commander-in-chief of our military forces. It World War III starts, and even if 15 million South Koreans die in 40 minutes it will be the end of the world as we know it.

Once any city in the U.S. has been hit - the Power Grid will go down in many areas and the net will collapse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2017 at 5:49pm
Nobody in public office should ever be placed on so high a pedestal that they are beyond criticism. Trump's bizarre, fractious and often irrational behavior is more than enough reason to question his ability to steer the nation through troubled waters. The "soap opera" is merely pointing out what a flawed individual he is.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2017 at 8:20pm
It's scary that someone like chump is in charge!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2017 at 3:47am
"Horses for courses"  A belligerent, bullying, ba$£^&d like Trump is probably just what is needed here.  The conciliatory ones who compromised and cajoled failed utterly. They actually seem to have made things worse.

I could not agree more about his inability to take criticism though.  Other Presidents have used unfavorable press reports to hone their skills and improve their results.  With Trump that is about as likely as Jesus's second coming happening tomorrow at 10.15 am precisely.  Did I mention he hadto be carrying a bunch of balloons - every color except magenta.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2017 at 4:09am
Heads up America!

For those of you who don't know or understand orbital physics, aerodynamics and rocketry, here is a little information for you:  Any nation that can put an object into an altitude (ie. distance from the Earth's surface) that would allow its payload to orbit (ie. satellite height) is capable of dropping its contents at any point on the Earth's surface that it so chooses.  

Most of you were probably not around during the second world war or the 1950s but the reason so many young American heroes and British servicemen and women (British meaning our Commonwealth of the time) gave their lives to destroy the Nazi war machine was to end things before they could launch their improved version of the V2 rocket containing atomic bombs that they were working on.  There is some evidence that they actually did test small tactical nuclear devices and we only just beat them to the punch , with the much larger devices dropped on Japan.  

I assure you North Korea is capable of manufacturing and delivering thermonuclear weapons much larger than those used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  UN action is needed immediately!  Preferably at a diplomatic level but the gunboats must be there to back up the diplomatic preamble.

I pray to God I don't have to live to see West Virginia or any other part of American soil glowing in the dark.

Ps. One thing Obama did very wrong was to sack America's best general for not answering a phone call quick enough and telling a loud mouthed press operative that: "Its only government- Its not important" or, as I am paraphrasing, words to that effect.  You all know "The Ranger" I mean.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 3:29am
There is an interesting scene in Space Odyssey with apes waving bones above their head until one them finally bonks one on the head and kills them. Then the bone is thrown in the air and the next thing you see is a space station indicating that was progress.

This time the next scene will be a nuclear wasteland in North Korea, South Korea, Los Angeles and maybe even New York or Chicago. There can be no military action in North Korea without 20 million people being killed in Seoul in minutes even if they nuke or destroy Kim Jong-Un with a Mother-of-all-Bombs (Moab) they have hundreds of guns and probably nuclear armed ICBMS now, not next year, as the military so inaccurately stated either from bad intelligence or wishful thinking.

As to the sad state of affairs in Washington - neither a lawyer or a businessman can effectively be the commander-in-chief of our military. We fared better when ex-military - even JFK was at the helm during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Our current situation is partially caused by the "pick you battles" truism severely lacking not only in the media but in higher places. Like bullies in high school, you do not respond to every barb and attack daily from every source. As an example, my best friend Bryan Rawson who is still alive and was a strapping 6' 4" Canadian guy in high school but the son of a minister did not want to fight anyone. This little (we won't name race) creature kept poking him, jeering him, over almost 3 month until finally he picked him up in his undershorts in the gym, held him up on the wall by this throat and told him "If you don't get off my ass, I am going to kill you."

That was the last time he ever bothered him. The "little dude" said "you are a crazy mfkr son of a bitch and I want no part of you."

point: Where this works in the gym it does not work with nuclear weapons. Perhaps in mega business deals with sane people it might. However Kim Jong-un is not sane. He is a megalomaniac who does not care about his people, the lives of his soldiers, or the survival of his country.  The only way they could have stopped him was to have an assassin take him out from South Korea and that was his greatest fear.  Then there would be no launch, no more nuclear program - no more North Korean threat.

As for nuclear or ship armadas our people better stay far apart. A nuke over several irreplaceable in the near future billion dollar ships would put a sizable dent in our forces.

Currently most of the senators and legislature are acting and talking like they are on drugs, and many probably are. Washington D.C. is a swamp and not easily drained. The distrust of our government lawmakers is an all time high. They do not represent the people generally other than sometimes their own state or area that elected them and the armies of lobbyists that control their votes and their lives. We do not have a democracy or representation anymore.

Put a lawyer in as president - i.e. the truly failed Obama or wanna be Hillary Clinton and we have words without substance, lying to the people and saying otherwise in private and doing essentially nothing to effectively better America. Put a business man in and the same tactics used to negotiate business deals will be used to make military decisions. You need a general - battle hardened - aware of the BS of countries like Iran - and with all due respect - China. China is not doing anything to stop North Korea. They don't want to. Russia does not want to either. They don't care if they nuke South Korea with it's U.S. forces.

They do not want a strong Western military presence on their doorstep. Neither did we in Cuba. It makes sense and we have never been in areas to protect anyone but our oil interests or set up bases closer to our enemies.

No one truly cares about people of color except people of color in government or the poor who have somehow got elected. Even so, they often become corrupted and soon become the Jeffersons trying to demonstrate it is time for (fill in the blank) people to have money and for the (fill in the blank) to pay back the debt of abuse for decades.

Meanwhile we are on the verge of a nuclear war. I will state again I worked in the nuclear program with nuclear missiles and had a need-to-know enough to know what would happen in a nuclear exchange and that the world could be destroyed in less than 40 minutes.

We don't need a high altitude missile that everyone can shoot down. A Russian drone or missile cruising just above the water launched from a sub would be almost impossible to intercept. Arrival time - 3 to 6 minutes. A multiple launch of 16 missiles with 8-12 warheads would fill the sky with projectiles - some of them dummies and many would get through.

Wake up America. You can have the war over there or over here. Except for a regime change (a polite way to take out Kim Jong-Un) people are going to die.

Wake up Mainstream Media. You fiddle while Rome burns pissing and moaning about things you think people want to read about versus what is truly important.

It is unlikely that either China or Russia will launch on us if North Korea is  attacked.

North Korea must be stopped. Negotiation - sanctions never worked with Iran and they won't work with North Korea.

Medclinician imho

Kim Jong-un is waving the bone with impunity against the western world. It is an ICBM with a nuclear warhead. It can take out a city for 40,000 years. We can defend ourselves now or later. Or is there really that choice? Once he launches and destroys a city,  other rogue state will as well around the world. Terrorists and ISIS and Al Qaeda in place will have the signal to strike in Europe and America. Can we afford to take the risk?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 4:08am
Agreed, Med.  Wishful thinking, for decades!

It may already be too late to do anything now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 10:50pm
This is the only strategy that will work:

a) Make a clandestine approach to NK military staff - say that "If you don't take care of Kim Jong Un, we will, and you go as well.  You have three days." 

b) Offer them the support they need to change the government - medicine, food, whatever. 

c) If they don't, pull the trigger on NK.   Massive, devastating attacks on the government & military infrastructure, making "shock and awe" in Iraq look like a kid's party. 

p.s. Isn't it a little stupid that Seoul SK is so close to the DMZ?  They should have relocated it a long time ago!!  That is about the only thing preventing an attack on NK.  Sad! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2017 at 10:54pm
That's the most plausible plan I've heard so far to deal with this, Chuck. Everything else is sure to result in an appalling loss of life all over the peninsula, and most likely elsewhere.

Messy, messy situation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2017 at 12:39am
Agreed!  But now!!!!  NOT when K.J.U. has had even more time to weaponise the North.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2017 at 12:55am
Total agreement, Chuck.  If "wet removal with maximum prejudice" is not practical,  then a "hot clean" is advised.  This is an occasion when one thinks: the Thor project should prove useful.  What a pity it was cancelled.  I could give you a list of excellent targets for it.    Doesn't that little cockroach know what: "No Surrender!  Hurrah!" means. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2017 at 7:08am
They will do this - blow up an American city. Just as Saddam Hussein took on the world and Baghdad was never nuked, so North Korea will attack the U.S. if Kim Jong-un is not removed from power.

I personally do care about South Korea and Seoul in which 20,000,000 people will die. Those who think this could not escalate into a global conflict are wrong - and much more terrorist attacks which will happen as soon anything this major occurs.

They can hit New York. For more than 35 years I have said that is where it will happen - but now - California (and who would want to bomb Alaska?) is in the cross-hairs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 04 2017 at 10:58am
I do care about all those people.  But something soon, or the numbers in danger just grow.

I had high hopes for Trump on this one.  Sadly, he seems to be just another appeaser.  I suppose bullies only pick on the weak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2017 at 3:38am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/07/north-korea-must-halt-missile-tests-for-talks-with-us-to-occur-tillerson-says.html

This is deeply disturbing to me and reminiscent of Obama Era foreign policy.

Kim Jong-un has zero interest in talking to the U.S. unless they accept them as a nuclear power. Sanctions have not worked and using the same failed strategy we did with Iran will not accomplish anything.

North Korea is a clear and present threat to America and currently can take out at least Seoul whether we nuke them or not.

Neither Russia or China have demonstrated any intent or willingness to become involved in stopping North Korea.

The current sanctions on Russia have ruined our relationship with them  and accomplished nothing. This simply increases the likelihood of a war between us and a nation capable of wiping out our country. It is Democratic posturing punishing our country because they lost the Democratic election with Hillary Clinton and simply will not give up on ruining America.

This is pointless rhetoric. There has been no signal of any kind from North Korea they will stop testing nukes in the near future if ever. What is Tillerson thinking?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:10am
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/07/haley-north-korea-needs-to-brace-for-combined-pressure-from-us-and-world.html

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley told Fox News that America has the iron-clad upper hand.

More words. It would appear that the engineers behind the sanctions feel they have delivered a "gut punch" to North Korea.

Not so. It is the people who will suffer, not the nuclear program in North Korea. I almost feel like posting my "wave the bone over the ape's head" video again.

I don't think they realize the psychology of a crazy person. A crazy delusional person just does things.  I worked with such people in 3-stage lock down at Agnew mental hospital and at Don Lo at Santa Clara  Medical Center. People would just "go off."  Once I was jumped for the keys and we had to deal with a crazy person who was bigger than me and I am 6' 2" tall and no midget.

I watched a freak in San Jose jail take down 4 officers when I working at the jail who was on Angel Dust.  The guy was amazingly strong and probably could have lifted a car.

My point is people who are many bricks shy of a load just do things. If they put enough pressure on Kim Jong-un he may just take out Seoul. While everyone is patting themselves on the back, he is still loading missiles on speedboats to take out our aircraft carriers. Nothing has changed.

We can handle it says our military.

It mystifies me. Is Kim Jong-un going to call on the phone with tears in his eyes and say "I am so sorry. I did a bad thing"?  I doubt it.

Will China follow through on the sanctions?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-06/china-confident-un-sanctions-can-block-north-korea-nuclear-push

“You need deeper sanctions over a longer period of time, like years, before you can see if North Korea changes its behavior,” Thomas Byrne, president of the New York-based Korea Society, said in a telephone interview. “The sanctions will have an economic impact but little effect on the strategic intent to develop ballistic missiles.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-big-win-china-sanctions-un-north-korea-2017-8

According to Yun Sun, a senior associate at the Stimson Center who is an expert on China and North Korea, the US essentially persuaded China to agree to the extensive sanctions on Pyongyang by threatening to sanction Chinese banks that do business with North Koreans.

But will these sanctions stop North Korea from building and testing missiles and nuclear devices?

"The answer is no," Sun said. "The belief that sanctions are going to bring North Korea to its knees have been proven to be false assumptions."

According to Sun, during economically lean times, it's the North Korean people who suffer. Pyongyang has prioritized its military and will most likely fund its weapons programs above all else.

Additionally, John Park, the director of the Korea Working Group at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, told South Korea's Hankyoreh that North Korea had billions stockpiled from years of a trade surplus. He projects that the regime could survive for years even under these strict sanctions.

comment: So to the tune of "you did a good thing" being pumped to the media, we still may be on the verge of World War III and a launch on South Korea's Seoul.

I see most politician's seem to do these little dances and wait for applause after pumping to them media how cool it was what they did. I am not convinced.

Yet North Korea won't win a military conflict with the U.S. and the allies.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:45am
Yep, Med!  Spot on!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:48am
http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-china-and-russia-agreed-to-tough-new-sanctions-on-north-korea/5603001

Russia and China want all of Korea to be a nuclear-free-zone. They voted for sanctions against NK in the hope the US is willing to de-escalate. 

From the article: mposing sanctions is one thing, enforcing them another. North Korea is adept at exploiting loopholes in restrictions and minimizing them other ways.

Most important, China wants Pyongyang’s economy kept from imploding. It accounts for around 90% of its exports. It’s the DPRK’s key ally.

Beijing and Russia oppose its nuclear and ballistic missile programs. They want these issues handled diplomatically – most of all non-militarily, the main reason they went along with sanctions to preserve a measure of stability on the Korean peninsula.

China’s UN envoy Liu Jieyi explained new sanctions aim to prevent chaos and conflict on the Korean peninsula, why his government supported them.

According to Liu, unanimously passed SC Res. 2371 has three components:

1. New sanctions against Pyongyang’s nuclear and ballistic missile programs.

2. No intention to harm DPRK activities not prohibited by the resolution – including economic activities and cooperation, food and economic assistance.

3. A call for resuming six-party diplomacy, a commitment to resolving contentious issues peacefully and taking steps to deescalate Korean peninsula tensions.


China and Russia seek an “integrated,” realistic and feasible resolution to Korean peninsula issues. They want provocative US THAAD missile systems in South Korea withdrawn, undermining regional strategic balance and threatening their national security.

Increased US regional militarization is polar opposite what’s needed to resolve contentious issues.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 7:58am
The only military option against NK is a united US-China-Russia plan. The NK elite could bow to such a united front-in wich a war would be a losing battle for NK from the start. 


From the NK point of view; why should some countries have a right to have nuclear weapons and other countries not have that right. For the Arab world Israel is an exemple of the un-logical reasoning by some states. 

When NK has to give up its nuclear programm, Iran give in to pressure-why then not Israel ? What moral right has any country to have the capability to destroy all of humanity ? 

What price is affordable to deal with the NK weapons/regime ? Should "we"go to w.w.-3 for that ? (And if we don't what then ?)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 10:40am

Report: North Korea now making missile-ready nuclear weapons


http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/08/politics/north-korea-missile-ready-nuclear-weapons/index.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 11:46am
I know I've discussed this at length with Chuck before now, but one of my biggest concerns - especially living near the ocean as I do - is North Korea preemptively loading nukes on innocuous looking boats and keeping them out in the water just in case. No ICBMs needed - just pleasure craft and fishing boats ready to sail into major harbors along the East and West Coast.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I know I've discussed this at length with Chuck before now, but one of my biggest concerns - especially living near the ocean as I do - is North Korea preemptively loading nukes on innocuous looking boats and keeping them out in the water just in case. No ICBMs needed - just pleasure craft and fishing boats ready to sail into major harbors along the East and West Coast.




You are so right about this.  For years they have been going on about the showy launch of missiles high in the air that could be intercepted.  Smuggling a nuke in the U.S. in a fishing boat is are real threat. I have written about this many times - especially in New York. It isn't the missile we have to worry about - it is the nuclear device that could be brought in and set off.  The same applies to the drop of a nuke from the satellite that crosses over New York and the East Coast.  A low altitude detonation could effectively destroy the power grid and set the stage for operatives (North Korea has a lot of "operatives" who could then do more damage.

The media core who has been moaning about Trump are now very worried that someone very emotional has control of the nuclear trigger pointed at North Korea. If this weren't so disturbing - since Hillary was already going to order a No-Fly zone in Syria which would have set off World War III, Trump's options are limited.

It he does nothing- eventually that crazy kid who loves cheese and doesn't fear the U.S. will try and take out Los Angeles or New York.

One must keep in mind - we have no instant-replay or give me a new 15 million life button on this. This a 32,000 year event - no one can live there anymore - and which will immortalize Kim Jong-un as the greatest mass murderer in human history.  It will be worse than Hiroshima. 

And you can count on the fact, there will be little level headed thinking when people panic and totally lose faith in the congress that let this happen. 

U.S. diplomacy has failed as well as sanctions. Iran ignored them, North Korea will work around them and has a stock pile and money flowing from Iran as well as technology. 

When the birds have flown, i.e. missiles launched by U.S. in some kind of Tomahawk statement - Seoul will be toast and China and Russia's masks will fall and cloaking device turn off. Meaning - they don't want the U.S. shooting off nukes next door to them in an exchange that could quickly become up-close and personal.

The only sane and realistic answer is a regime change. Perhaps the world will be unhappy but not as unhappy as 20 million in Seoul who will end up as collateral damage.

Medclinician
 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 2:14pm
Not if but when North Korea became a full-fledged nuclear power.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 3:37pm
Every President has passed NK along to the next President. Old Bush, Clinton, Young Bush, Obama have done nothing now Trump has to deal with this nut. My late husband would say, nuke them an deal with the consequents after. I have to agree that this would be the best way to deal with the nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I know I've discussed this at length with Chuck before now, but one of my biggest concerns - especially living near the ocean as I do - is North Korea preemptively loading nukes on innocuous looking boats and keeping them out in the water just in case. No ICBMs needed - just pleasure craft and fishing boats ready to sail into major harbors along the East and West Coast.




recommended reading

"THE SUM OF ALL FEARS" by Tom Clancy

just a book
OR
a prediction ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 3:46pm
"fire and fury"
the updated version of "shock and awe" ?

Video of Donald Trump casually threatening 'fire and fury like the world has never seen' nuclear war

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/8/1687877/-Video-of-Donald-Trump-casually-threatening-fire-and-fury-like-the-world-has-never-seen-nuclear-war
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2017 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

Every President has passed NK along to the next President. Old Bush, Clinton, Young Bush, Obama have done nothing now Trump has to deal with this nut. My late husband would say, nuke them an deal with the consequents after. I have to agree that this would be the best way to deal with the nut.
The longer the West waits, the more nuclear capable the mad regime in NK. becomes.  Your husband was right.  

The longer we wait, the worse it gets and this "worse" is nuclear "worse".  No sane person wants any war, let alone a nuclear one, but Kim is not sane, neither is his regime and after all those years of propaganda neither is most of his country.  Bush, Bush, Clinton and Obama had the best reasons on Earth for cowardice.  I would have done no better.  But, ultimately, cowardice is what it was.
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