Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Will North Korea attack U.S. with Bioweapons? |
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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So much attention is being focused on the missile situation, it would appear that people and the media are oblivious to a much more serious threat. Kim Jong-un has eluded to other "surprises" for the U.S. and they are very capable of using a virus to infect America and cause enormous problems.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/why-the-world-should-fear-north-koreas-biological-weapons-14951 While the world might be worried about all things North Korea—especially its growing nuclear weapons arsenal—Pyongyang very likely has other nasty weapons of mass destruction that, given the right conditions, could be just as lethal. What most refer to as biological weapons—stuff right out central casting that always make those ‘end of the world’ movies all so good—might just be North Korea’s real weapon of war to fear. also note:“Indeed, North Korea special forces are a likely means for delivering North Korean biological weapons. North Korea has some 200,000 special forces, a small fraction of which could deliver devastating biological attacks against South Korea, Japan, and even the United States. North Korea could use biological agents in isolation, perhaps as an escalated provocation in which it seeks to infect a limited number of people, or it could use biological agents as the leading edge of an invasion of the ROK, hoping for thousands or even more infections to weaken the ROK’s defenses and will to fight. Biological weapon use in the latter context is particularly worrisome.” https://mic.com/articles/32885/war-with-north-korea-smallpox-and-bioweapons-are-the-real-threat-not-nukes#.C5er08zZW Did North Korea really create hybrids of smallpox and Ebola virus or Venezuelan equine encephalitis, as Ken Alibek, former head of the Russian bioweapons agency Biopreparat, has described? According to the International Institute on Strategic Studies, North Korea may be able to produce nerve, blister, blood, and choking agents, anthrax, bubonic plague, and cholera, with South Korea estimating its overall stockpile at 2,500 to 5,000 tons. comment: One of the reasons the AFT has continued for years is the lack of real news concerning Avian Flu, Ebola, and other outbreaks around the world. To my knowledge, I am the only person on the Internet today about the dangers of the danger of a biological attack from North Korea on the U.S. The ease of implementing such an attack and our lack of defense from one is truly disturbing. We could hardly handle a Zika outbreak or especially Ebola with our current medical situation and lack of decent care for most people in the U.S. today. Few people currently are immune or vaccinated against smallpox. What is a possible scenario? There is going to be some sort of military confrontation over North Korea. The only other event that would relieve the crisis is the removal of Kim Jong Un from the land of the living. No doubt there are a number of operations currently in place to do so. It is likely these ops would be carried out by South Korea which would not put the U.S. under the gun for the event. It is a given there simply is no effective diplomacy or world sanctions that are going to stop him. These are policies which failed against Iran and have never really been effective. The Russians and Chinese will ask we move our military out of the area near Japan and North Korea. This is not going to happen. If North Korea is receiving supplies and help from Iran and other big money countries - and that is likely as well as help in nuclear technology - there are not a lot of choices left. Any attack will lead to an attack on Seoul which could kill 15-25 million people in less than 30 minutes. South Korea is being held hostage. Many times I have posted about bio-weapons. We may have stockpiles of anti-virals and antibiotics, but given our current medical preparedness - is anyone going out in the anarchy we have now to deliver them or would it be safe to do so? Probably not. We are most vulnerable of all weapons of mass-destruction - and there could be no immediate attack on North Korea because they would have to prove the outbreaks even came from them. Most likely it would be attributed to ISIS. It is a dangerous day for the world today. Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Technophobe ![]() Assistant Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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I daresay that the US intelligence services are fully aware of the details of any North Korean threat, Med. Pearl Harbor was an unforgetable lesson. Military eyes are now superglued to the ball.
Quite what they will do about such threats and whether or not they will warn the public will be another matter, but they are well aware of the comparative risks. I very much doubt that NK will have any smallpox. Russia and the US certainly have it, and adapted versions for increased lethality, for all that they both agreed to dispose of it. But, when world stockpiles were being disposed of (permanently?) NK would have been too damaged by the Korean war to have bought any. After that it got too hot to handle. I bet they tried though! As for the other nasties, who knows? We can only speculate, but I would bet odds on $1,000 to a cent that the American security services know - right down to the last microbe or dirty slide. Any attempt to spread an agent known about, understood and stockpiled by the opposing side (us) is doomed to failure as the enemy knows how to tackle the effects, and in the case of the US probably has far, far worse to retaliate with - and Trump is itching for an excuse! Who could blame him? Not me! As a point of planning reasoning, Kim Jong Un, Il (or any other variant on the theme) don't give a damn about their people, as long as they are safe themselves. They are up against it too, where buying stuff on the international market goes. So, everything must be done on a shoestring. If a shoddy nuclear reactor goes boom, then they just move away and cover up the deaths. If a biological agent escapes, then there is nowhere for the ruling elite to run to. It makes sense to limit the weapons research to the safer nuclear - odd though that sounds. In summary, I will join you in your nuclear nightmares, but this one is a storm in a teacup.
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jacksdad ![]() Executive Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I totally agree - I'm sure biological or chemical weapons are on the radar of the intelligence community and being widely discussed, particularly after Kim Jong-nam's death from VX exposure, but a country the size of America would make chemical weapons largely ineffective, and biological weapons are indiscriminate and too unpredictable.
Now the nuclear threat is one I'm completely on board with though. That does scare the bejeezus out of me, and I'm getting very nervous about whether it's going to be handled well, or as a real estate deal. |
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
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Technophobe ![]() Assistant Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Prime real estate that Pyonyang!
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Satori ![]() Valued Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 28655 |
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Putin to Trump
"IN YER FACE" Ahead of Trump-Putin Meeting, Russia Halts U.S.-Drafted U.N. Resolution Against North Koreahttp://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/07/06/ahead-trump-putin-meeting-russia-halts-u.s.-drafted-u.n.-resolution-north-korea/ keeping up with the G20 meeting? at this point I ALMOST feel sorry for Trump he is being disrespected at every turn foreign leaders laugh at him behind his back and are starting to laugh IN HIS FACE |
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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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jacksdad ![]() Executive Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I can just see a Trump branded building there. Or hard labor camp.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Technophobe ![]() Assistant Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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"Trump-speak unbellyfeel Engsoch." as Orwell would have put it.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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I would like to spend some more time on this because this is something even Trump is missing. It would be very simple for North Korean operatives to bring a virus into New York and shut down the U.S. in two weeks. I mean complete and total chaos.
There have been forms of hantavirus which are weaponized. https://securitystudiesonline.wordpress.com/2011/08/11/potential-uses-of-the-hantavirus-as-a-biological-weapon/ I personally spoke to a guy with a global news station who wanted to interview me. He said he was going to have another scientist on who had developed a weaponized hantavirus that could spread incredibly fast. The guy was killed in a parking garage a few days before the show. Then he sent me a list of more than a thousand genetic researches who had been "eliminated" in the last three years. I forwarded this on to appropriate people. Then he disappeared as well. My point. North Korea has been dealing with Pakistan and Iran both who likely have bioweapons of mass destruction. These labs were photographed by satellite and pictures were put up on the net. https://mic.com/articles/32885/war-with-north-korea-smallpox-and-bioweapons-are-the-real-threat-not-nukes#.W7fhjYYkv Even if no modifications were really made, it is terrifying enough that U.S. and Russian intelligence services have found "medium" grade intelligence that North Korea may have acquired smallpox, and that some of the Biopreparat scientists may have moved to North Korea after the breakup of the Soviet Union. Frequently lethal and often disfiguring, smallpox might be stopped cold by 300 million stockpiled doses of vaccine in the Strategic National Stockpile, provided the North Koreans have done nothing to alter the virus. There are also antiviral drugs that may help to combat infections if a vaccine fails. But with each case of smallpox infecting, on average, 20 more people, the logistics of distribution will be critical, and the effect on any nation less prepared would be devastating. Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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Have been tracking this for some time and still think it would be far worse than a nuclear attack. They do have many forms of them and people have been getting pretty sick recently. These could never be tracked.
Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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CRS, DrPH ![]() Expert Level Adviser ![]() Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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Thanks, Med, I share your concern. It has been reported that NK likely has smallpox stores. During the Cold War, the USSR built up massive stores of smallpox virus through their industrial effort Biopreparat. They were planning on loading freeze-dried smallpox onto ICBMs. From what I've been told, the Soviets had tons of weaponized smallpox, and much of this just disappeared when the USSR fell apart. NK is likely being helped by former Soviet missile & nuke engineers, so it is not unlikely that they also have some of the Biopreparat guys on the payroll. Bioweapons could easily be pre-deployed behind enemy lines (i.e. the USA) without much problem, just waiting for a signal to deploy and disperse. I guess we'll see soon enough.
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CRS, DrPH
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Technophobe ![]() Assistant Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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I have a scary senario to think about.
What if some infectious agent broke out in America under Trump; say: monkeypox, or this year's flu - with one more nasty and successful mutation? If he decides this is the doing of North Korea (Well, Global warming is China, all terrorism is Islam and Russia helped 'Crooked Hilary'. Life is so much easier with someone to blame. You don't have to take any grown-up responsibility that way.) What would Trump do then?
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CRS, DrPH ![]() Expert Level Adviser ![]() Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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Trump seems to be itching to deploy nuclear force. I don't think he'd hesitate to bomb Pyongyang. |
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CRS, DrPH
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jacksdad ![]() Executive Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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I think he'd have to get past Mattis and the Joint Chiefs first. I'm willing to bet that conversations along those lines have already taken place without Trump's knowledge.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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jacksdad ![]() Executive Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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Chuck - a few years ago, a group of Russian nuclear scientists went to Washington to testify that NK had been actively head hunting them. They said that some of their colleagues had already gone there to work, and more ominously, the scientists with expertise in EMP technology were the ones being pursued the hardest.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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And so it really begins in the U.S. - of course this map throughout
the time I have been posting it, usually vastly understates the spread
of the flu. It might be noted that we have a rather peculiar item here.
Noting the threats of North Korea to attack Guam - it appears to have
begun there - and is widespread. Is this the big surprise we have been
threatened with? Medclinician ![]() |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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I just posted this and I am wondering why Guam is widespread right now. I do know many people who are very sick with the flu - several were in the hospital. It is a very bad flu and comes with a severe cough and an ear infection. Most people I have talked to get the ear infection. Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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CRS, DrPH ![]() Expert Level Adviser ![]() Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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Under active discussion.... Aides of Donald Trump are reportedly working out what they would say to him if he were to order the United States to launch a nuclear strike on North Korea. White House officials are said to be increasingly concerned by the President’s behaviour, both publicly and privately, and are worried he will start World War III. Trump’s Chief of Staff John Kelly and Secretary of Defence James Mattis are reported to have talked about what they would say to the President if he does order a nuclear attack. According to numerous sources who have spoken to Vanity Fair about a range of issues surrounding the President and his apparent ‘unravelling’, Kelly and Mattis have already discussed their response. “Would they tackle him?” the source said. The publication claims that those closest to Trump believe him to be “unstable”, while advisers said the White House was “in crisis” over the President’s “dark moods”. |
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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None of this is relevant. The president has the authority to order a nuclear strike without asking Congress and Trump may do so. What his aides feel about it - who cares? Would the military say no - we won't do that? Unlikely. They are posed right now on military exercises and if NK launches a nuke towards Guam even to splash down in international waters, it is likely we will nuke wherever Kim Jong-un is stuffing himself at his resort island with a chunk of gooey cheese in his hand and his mouth full. I am more worried about EMP and especially a virus - this could not only a disease virus - it could be a computer virus. Most everything we have uses computers and technology. A hiding "Silkworm" I have labeled this and tracked it - could just go off and shut down our entire net and infrastructure. Meanwhile - disease virus - what they don't have - they can buy - and be sure - the U.S. has already created several strains which could end human life on earth - or kill most of it. Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Technophobe ![]() Assistant Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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Actually, read your history. Nixon wanted to use nukes and his administration managed to stop things without stopping him. Watergate happened just after.
Kim Jong Un is not going to start WWIII. He is well aware that the retaliation will destroy his country if he does so. I can't say the same about Trump. What Kim will do in 20 years when his weapons arsenal is sufficient to do really big damage with, is another matter. But. he will do nothing to start things now. Chemical, conventional, electrical, bioweapons or nukes? Who knows? What I do know, is that China will immediately come out against whomever starts things. Despite the appearance of things, they are not pro-Korea, anymore than they are pro-America. They just do not want an unstable region or a huge influx of refugees. China is pro-China. PERIOD. If North Korea does use an EMP weapon and it is huge then China will damage them. They don't want an expansionist dictator free in the region, which with American influence gone they would have. If it is no more than an inconvenience then NK can get away with it. Guess which they will choose. Kim is an evil, dictator, a psychopath with no care for his people at all, but not a complete idiot. Quite like Trump, but possibly more stable.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
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jacksdad ![]() Executive Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: September 08 2007 Location: San Diego Status: Offline Points: 47251 |
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None of this is relevant? I wish I had glasses that rose-tinted, because a man as unstable and vindictive as Trump with his finger on the button seems awful relevant to me.
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"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary. |
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Satori ![]() Valued Member ![]() ![]() Joined: June 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 28655 |
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Disturbing signs on prospect of war with North Korea
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/19/1708141/-Disturbing-signs-on-prospect-of-war-with-North-Korea Just last night former CIA Director John Brennan assessed the prospect of war at around 20 - 25%. |
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“The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth.” Gary Kasparov
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CRS, DrPH ![]() Expert Level Adviser ![]() Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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I think it is inevitable, Satori. Trump wants to show the world that he has bigger cajones than Little Rocket Man.
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CRS, DrPH
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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Back to the thread topic - Will North Korea attack U.S. with Bioweapons?
http://www.cbrneportal.com/everything-we-know-about-north-koreas-bioweapons-program/ ![]() Kim's 2015 photo-op demonstrated that at the very least, North Korea has equipment that would allow scientists there to work with biological weapons. In 2015, a North Korean scientist defected to Finland with what he said was electronic documentation that showed North Korea had tested biological and chemical weapons on citizens. He's not the only defector to make such allegations, though none of those claims have been confirmed.
The most recent event to spur speculation about North Korea's
bioweapons capabilities was the
assassination of
Kim Jong Nam, the half-brother of Kim Jong Un,
which used the chemical weapon VX. Though VX is chemical,
not biological, experts suggested that the event proved North
Korea is willing to use these types of weapons. comment: At the very least, they probably have virulent forms of Anthrax and Smallpox. The U.S. still could not take a new form of Smallpox. South Korea is still not able to handle the effects of a smallpox attack by North Korea, which is judged to have the ability to manufacture the lethal virus, the Korea Herald reported on Monday (see GSN, March 2). Pyongyang's biological weapon abilities include the capacity to reconstitute from available digital genetic sequences the highly virulent variola virus that was declared eradicated from nature in 1980, the South Korean Defense Ministry concluded in a new white paper. The document also states that the United States believes the South is among the nations most likely to experience a smallpox outbreak. Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4741354/north-korea-biological-weapons-smallpox-cholera-plague-anthrax-us-troops/
Current 22nd October 2017, 1:32 pm Updated: 23rd October 2017, 10:15 am North Korea is ‘mass producing biological weapons’ and could unleash smallpox, cholera, plague and anthrax on US troopsUnder the cover of a farm lab, it is claimed North Korean chemists could be weaponising some the world’s deadliest diseases such as smallpox, Black Death and cholera which could lay waste to millions of people if an epidemic was sparked. Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Technophobe ![]() Assistant Admin ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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"Not if but when" indeed, Med. No argument there.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
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CRS, DrPH ![]() Expert Level Adviser ![]() Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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This is the report liked to the news story:
Amidst the growing threat of North Korea’s nuclear program, the assassination of Kim Jong-Un’s half-brother via VX nerve agent in February 2017 brought renewed interest in North Korea’s other weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs—chemical and biological weapons. If used on a large scale, these weapons can cause not only tens of thousands of deaths, but also create panic and paralyze societies. Nevertheless, the vividness of the nuclear threat has overshadowed other weapons programs, limiting the attention and policy input that they deserve. This paper focuses on North Korea’s biological weapons (BW).
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CRS, DrPH
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Medclinician ![]() V.I.P. Member ![]() ![]() Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12/20/north-korea-begins-testing-anthrax-onto-icbm-report-says.html
North Korea is beginning tests on mounting anthrax onto intercontinental ballistic missiles that would strike the U.S., a report said on Wednesday just two days after the White House’s U.S. National Security Strategy stated Kim Jong Un is pursuing chemical and biological weapons. The Hermit Kingdom is beginning experiments to test out if anthrax can endure immense heat and pressure it will have to endure when loaded into an ICBM and launched toward the earth’s atmosphere, Japan’s Asahi newspaper reported, citing an unidentified person connected to South Korea’s intelligence services. “North Korea has started experiments such as heat and pressure equipment to prevent anthrax from dying even at a high temperature of over 7,000 degrees generated at the time of ICBM's re-entry into the atmosphere,” the report stated. “In part, there is unconfirmed information that it has already succeeded in such experiments.” Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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CRS, DrPH ![]() Expert Level Adviser ![]() Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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Thanks, Med! To me, this is further proof that former USSR weapons scientists have new employment in NK. They were planning to load freeze-dried smallpox virus onto ICBM warheads during the Brezhnev years.
Easier said that done....however, it is far more practical to distribute bioweapons such as anthrax spores via agents inserted into society. It wouldn't have to be a very large attack to plunge the world into economic chaos and accusations. |
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