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SECONDARY PNEUMONIA FROM SEVERE FLU

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willow41 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willow41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 6:56pm

I have talked to my doctor about the pneumonia shot. It protects against the bacterial pneumonia, but not against viral pneumonia. The flu causes viral pneumonia, which is what is killing everyone. The bacterial pneumonia is a secondary infection caused by a weaken immune system due to recovering from the flu. Yes, you do want to get the pneumonia shot to protect yourself from the bacterial pneumonia. But, you are giving yourself a false sense of hope if you think it will protect you from the viral pneumonia, that is caused by the flu. Talk to your doctors about this.

My hubby and I are going to get the pneumonia shot as soon as I can find a place that will give it. Not having any luck so far. As far as my young children go, they received their pneumonia shots when they received all their other shots. They give the pnemonia shots is increments of 4 for children. I have copies of their shot records and is says right on there Pmeumococcal, so I'm not sure why any of you would have trouble getting the vaccine for your children. 

My doctor also said an adult only needs to get the vaccine once, then when the person turns 65 they recommend you get another one.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2006 at 7:28pm

Thanks Willow... I go round and round with this. 

The pneumo vax is just a link in the chain... not the silver bullet.  And it is an especially important link for anyone over 30 in considering protection angles from H5N1.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2006 at 11:46pm

Can someone with medical knowledge answer this please. 

My teens have had all their vaccines, however, I was under the impression that the Pmeumococca shots they received as toddlers is not the same as Pnemovax 23. 

Also - a question for Birdie.  Are you saying that the walk in clinics we keep referring to in strip malls would not fork it over, but your public health department would?  From everything I understood, the walk in clinic would provide the vaccine (at a tune of $80 or so) compared to the Health department ($25) which would only give it to you if you "qualified" (65 and older, etc).

Hope
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2006 at 5:29am
FYI--having worked in the health care field for nearly 30 years, I can say that the majority of pneumonias in young people following the flu are: mycoplasma, chlamydia TWAR, and legionella. None of these are really prevented by a Pneumo vaccine, and all can be fatal.  They can be treated with antibiotics.  I would like to see evidence that Pneumoccocal is the primary pneumonia following flu, and in what age groups.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rocky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 12:19pm
I would like to find out what antibiotics might be most affective in treating
the pneumonias noted below (mycoplasma, chlamydia TWAR, and
legionella). I think this would be very valuable information for many of us.
Thanks very much. Rocky

Originally posted by sbulldog sbulldog wrote:

FYI--having worked in the health care field for nearly 30
years, I can say that the majority of pneumonias in young people following
the flu are: mycoplasma, chlamydia TWAR, and legionella. None of these are
really prevented by a Pneumo vaccine, and all can be fatal.  They can be
treated with antibiotics.  I would like to see evidence that Pneumoccocal is
the primary pneumonia following flu, and in what age groups.
Prepare for the Unexpected!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote northern_mamma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2006 at 12:31pm

According to this arcticle, they are considered "atypical pneumonia" and are treated with the anitbiotic erythromycin. Info is here:

http://healthsciences.columbia.edu/dept/ps/2007/mid/mid15.pd f

NM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 3:32pm

My daughter who isn't even 18 walked right into a strip mall clinic and got her pnemonia vaccine.  If your doctor won't give this to you, drive to the malls and go to the walk in clinics! 

 

 

Hope
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grego olsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 11:45am
I had Pneumonia about 3 years ago...  Do I need to get a shot or do I still have a resistance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2006 at 3:34pm
Hi Grego... No, you need vax.... and it is only good for bacterial pneumonia, not viral.  But every little bit of protection we can manage is a step in the right direction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2006 at 9:05pm
Albert are there any known side effects with the shot for pneumonia.  I have also been reading about using Curcumin and its been suggested to also take piperine with it to enhance its potency although I dont know the dosage, also Emodiin and Resveratrol again  I dont know dosages.  These herbal remedies are supposed to lessen the severity of the cytokine storms.  Any advice is greatly appreciated.  Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calendula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 7:01am

 

Laboratory tests on the generic drug amantadine showed it is effective in stopping the replication of strains of H5N1 isolated in Indonesia and China, indicating the older class of antiviral medicine may be a cheaper option to Roche Holding AG's Tamiflu in fighting the virus in humans, the WHO's Cheng said yesterday.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 1:03pm
Richard I have a link here for curcumin/peprine combo.I just ordered a bottle. Folks say this company is fast and reliable.www.iherb.com/curcumin3.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 1:53pm
Thank you Albert.  Will the correct dosages be on the bottle and should I begin a treatment only when I get sick as it is a imune suppresent and do you think I should take it in combination with anything else.  Thanks, Richard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 2:05pm

Richard  the correct dose will be on the bottle.This is my plan to fight this thing.

1.Master Tonic

2.Homemade Sambucol curcumin/ peperine combo.

3.Garlic

4.Essential Oils in a nebulzing diffuser.

As to starting a course of treatment,the first bird flu death is confirmed I start items 1 and 3.Any deaths in my area items 2 and 4.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 2:07pm
Richard I almost for got to mention Oil of oregano supposed to be and anti viral.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carolanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2006 at 3:41pm

The New Scientist Magazine in England - 7th January 2006 says PREPARE IN ADVANCE:

I QUOTE:

"We're not going to tell you not to get antiviral drugs such as Tamiflu or Relenza - we know of too many flu experts who have their own stash.  Distribution of official stocks could be a problem. It might be too late for the drug to work by the time you get it. You might have to wait in a huge queue of infected people or try to penetrate an angry mob. And you could be mugged on the way out of a dispensary by people desperate for the drug."  You would need to take within the first 2 days of contracting the flu - twice per day for 5 days or once per day for 10 days as prevention in the case of Tamiflu.

 

"Ask your doctor for pneumococcus vaccination - NOT the flu vaccination!  This vaccine protects you from a kind of bacterium that can cause pneumonia when it infects lungs damaged by the flu virus. The protection lasts for five years.  You could also stock up on antibiotics for treating other kinds of bacterial pneumonia. Half the victims of 1918 died of such secondary infections. Ask your doctor which antibiotics work agains the most common infections in your area."

 

"Consider statins. Yes we know these drugs are for lowering your cholestorel, but there is very preliminary evidence that they might protect against the general inflammatory reaction caused by flu, which can trigger heart attacks or strokes. A Dutch study of several thousand people aged 60 or more found there was no surge in deaths during the flu season among those on statins".

 

Stock up on emergency supplies - dry/canned food, water and fuel.

Wash hands often.

Wear latex gloves.

Only FFP3 or US standard N-95 masks will protect and even these make it very hard to breathe. Avoid touching your mouth, nose and eyes.

You can also check out Lauricidin - sales@lauricidin.com.  Some US doctors believe this may also offer some protection? 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 14 2006 at 10:53pm

After MUCH trouble, me and my two kids (14 & 23) are slated to get our shots this thursday.

FIRST, to even be considered for it, I had to lie my butt off to the State Health Center.......after which they scheduled us for LAST THURSDAY. But, after arriving last thursday, we found that the doses they had left over from the flu season were expired, and they had to order some from the district manager or some such thing, saying they didn't know if THE DISTRICT even had any. SHEESH.  Well, I got the call yesterday - our vaccines are in...and again we are scheduled for thursday.  I was so happy!!  Hubby is getting his through his doctor in early april........so, God willing, we will have one less thing to worry about.

 

As for the viral vs. Bacterial issue - we all know this is a bacterial shot and that viral pneumonia isn't covered by it. Still, having read up on the two types, the general consensus in the medical community is that bacterial is FAR FAR WORSE than viral.  Google both types, and the data one finds is that, while both can kill, bacterial is the baddest of the bad.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2006 at 6:52pm
EU acts to combat antibiotic resistance

www.chinaview.cn 2006-03-18 04:55:13

BRUSSELS, March 17 (Xinhuanet) -- The European Union (EU) on Friday
launched a new scientific network, in a bid to tackle the increasing
problem of resistance to antibiotics when dealing with lower respiratory
tract infections, such as bronchitis or pneumonia.

This Network of Excellence, GRACE, will pool European expertise and
excellence in this field to increase knowledge, ensure the practical
application of any research findings, develop new diagnostic tests and
improve education and training.

Around 75 per cent of all antibiotic prescriptions are for the treatment
of respiratory tract infections - and this extensive use of antibiotics has
dramatically increased resistance.

Officials at the GRACE project also fear an outbreak of pandemic bird
flu would be likely to trigger even heavier consumption of antibiotics.

"We know that there is growing concern among the public about rising
rates of antibiotic resistance," EU Science and Research Commissioner
Janez Potocnik explained at the launch on Friday.

"By pooling our excellence we have a much better chance of finding
answers more quickly," he added.

The project will focus on training for health care workers, monitoring
resistance and developing tests to establish patients' suitability for drugs
to treat pneumonia and bronchitis.

The GRACE scheme will cost 11.5 million euros (14 million U.S. dollars)
in five years and will link medical and science faculties in nine countries.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-03/18/
content_4314891 .htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2006 at 6:59pm
Principles of Appropriate Antibiotic Use for Treatment of
Acute Respiratory Tract Infections in Adults: Background, Specific Aims,
and Methods

20 March 2001 | Volume 134 Issue 6 | Pages 479-486

"The need to decrease excess antibiotic use in ambulatory practice has
been fueled by the epidemic increase in antibiotic-resistant Streptococcus
pneumoniae. The majority of antibiotics prescribed to adults in
ambulatory practice in the United States are for acute sinusitis, acute
pharyngitis, acute bronchitis, and nonspecific upper respiratory tract
infections (including the common cold).

For each of these conditions—
especially colds, nonspecific upper respiratory tract infections, and acute
bronchitis (for which routine antibiotic treatment is not recommended)—a
large proportion of the antibiotics prescribed are unlikely to provide
clinical benefit to patients.

Because decreasing community use of
antibiotics is an important strategy for combating the increase in
community-acquired antibiotic-resistant infections, the Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention convened a panel of physicians
representing the disciplines of internal medicine, family medicine,
emergency medicine, and infectious diseases to develop a series of
"Principles of Appropriate Antibiotic Use for Treatment of Acute
Respiratory Tract Infections in Adults." These principles provide evidence-
based recommendations for evaluation and treatment of adults with acute
respiratory illnesses.

This paper describes the background and specific aims of and methods
used to develop these principles. The goal of the principles is to provide
clinicians with practical strategies for limiting antibiotic use to the
patients who are most likely to benefit from it. These principles should be
used in conjunction with effective patient educational campaigns and
enhancements to the health care delivery system that facilitate
nonantibiotic treatment of the conditions in question."

http://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/community/technical.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carolanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2006 at 12:55am

Hi Rick,

It's good to see that something is being done about the overuse/misuse of many of the antibiotic groups.  Here in the United Kingdom, as in the USA, antibiotics are only available through your doctor/prescription but in Europe - certainly Spain, they are readily available to purchase from any pharmacy without prescription.  Your can purchase 500mg size (they don't sell the 250mg?) Amoxicillen, Erthromycin and all the other known antibiotics without discussing symptoms.  It seems in Spain that most drugs are sold over the counter as long as they are non-addictive.  The antibiotics are extremely cheap to buy in Spain, much cheaper than the price of a prescription in the U.K. and for that reason, many British will stock up with supplies when they travel back from vacation.

This vast unmonitored availability must have helped in creating resistant bacterium strains.  What a shame we can't have one drug administration that polices the world's supply.  We also need to look at all the offshore internet sites that will supply any drug, including antibiotics, at a price.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2006 at 7:44am
Antibiotics Becoming Less Effective and Drug Companies
Not Interested in Developing New Ones
By Rosanne Skirble

Staph, strep and more serious bacterial infections like meningitis,
pneumonia and tuberculosis routinely killed millions of people before the
discovery of antibiotics in the 1940s. But antibiotics have become less
effective over the years, because some bacteria have evolved ways to
survive the medicines meant to kill or weaken them and drug companies
are not interested in developing new ones.

On Christmas Day 2005 Katie and Scott Smith's 14-month-old son Bryce
got sick. "As first time parents we took him to the doctor the next day,
and found out he had a viral infection that would last probably the next
seven to ten days," says Katie Smith.

But Bryce didn't get better and was rushed to the hospital on New Year's
Day. An aggressive staph infection called MRSA had eaten a hole in his
lungs. Scott Smith says over the next two months the child had six blood
transfusions. "His lungs were so bad they couldn't supply the oxygen his
body needed." Surgeons had to insert five chest tubes in his body due to
the hole that was in his lungs. "A respiratory therapist told us his lungs
were so hard and infected that it was like trying to pump air into a brick,"
says Scott Smith.

Bryce finally went home in late February and is making slow, but steady
progress in learning to walk and talk all over again. But his doctor John
Bradley says even the slightest chest cold could set him back. "His lungs
are ravaged by this infection," he says. "There are scars throughout both
lungs, and we have some concern that the holes that were present earlier
from the staph pneumonia may open up at any time."

RSA or methicillin-resistant staph aureus - once exclusively found in
hospitals - is now increasingly common in community settings. A recent
study says children under two years of age, like Bryce, are at greatest
risk.

But they are not alone. Two million hospital patients a year get bacterial
infections. 90,000 of them die. More than 70 percent of the bacteria that
cause these infections are resistant to one or more antibiotics.

Martin Blaser is President of the Infectious Diseases Society of America,
whose members include physicians and scientists. He says bacteria are
becoming resistant faster than we can develop drugs to fight them. "The
time to prepare is now because it takes years to develop new antibiotics."

But Blaser says the antibiotic drug pipeline is drying up. Market forces are
partially to blame. Drug companies make a lot of money with medicines
for long-term chronic diseases. They see little profit in drugs to fight the
increasingly resistant germs doctors see in hospitals everyday.

Blaser says there are other financial roadblocks as well. "The development
of resistant strains of bacteria limits the long-term market potential for
an antibiotic," he says. "Also infectious disease experts may suggest
restrictions on the use of new antibiotics in order to preserve the
effectiveness of these drugs for those patients that need them most.
Although sensible, such restrictions reduce the incentives for companies
to develop new drugs."

The Infectious Diseases Society of America is calling on Congress to act.
IDSA policy director Robert Guidos says incentives for the pharmaceutical
industry can help pave the way. "We're calling for tax credits for research,
for facilities that are used to manufacture and do [research and
development> for these products. And, we are also calling for the
establishment of an independent commission that will identify which of
these infections are the most serious and therefore for which of these
incentives should apply."

Guidos says that the problem can be addressed in part by re-authorizing
the 2002 Public Health Security and Bio-terrorism Preparedness Act. IDSA
hopes a new version of the law will include provisions that encourage
drug companies to take a greater lead in the battle against ever more
toxic germs.

- VOA News


http://
www.digitaljournal.com/news/?articleID=4538
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sierra779 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2006 at 9:31am

Hubby and I got our shots yesterday thanks to this board!

We had no problems, I called, they said come in and get the shots. We drove to the doc's, about 5 minutes later the nurse called us back and gave us our shots. Insurance covered them and that was that...

I do have a  question now after reading a lot of this forum...

Is there more than one type of vaccine? We were told we had to get them every 7 years...I thought once or an added booster after age 65?

I'm confused now

Thanks for any answers.

Sierra, CA

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2006 at 8:13pm

We were told at 65 also, but the nurse giving them had to check the guidelines, and even THEN SHE WASN'T sure.

mY read on the booster is that it depends on what illness you have and your age. In other words, if your immune system is seriously compromised (cancer, aids, diabetes, etc.) , you will need a booster in 5 -7 years.  Otherwise, it's 65.

As I said, even the manager at our State Health Center had to read the guideline book.........AND STILL WASN'T SURE.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carolanne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2006 at 2:59am
Although The New Scientist states that pneumococcus vaccination protection lasts for five years, when my family was given their vaccinations the nurse told us that they are now telling everyone this is cover for life.  I still think I wil be getting a booster at 65 though to be on the safe side (I'm 45 now).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 3:24pm

no luck at doctors in getting pneumonia vaccine? what should I do? please advice.  I am in michigan usa

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willow41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 4:52pm
I previously posted that my children received their pneumonia vaccine with their regular child immunizations.  On their immunization chart it states that they have each received the Pneumococcal vaccine.  After talking with their pediatrician I found out I was wrong.
 
The Pneumococcal Vaccine they received is given in a sequence of 4 shots.  It's abbreviation is PCV.  It is for a particular strain of pneumonia that is very dangerous for young children. 
 
However, this is not the pneumonia vaccine that protects you from 23 different types of bacterial pneumonia.  That pneumonia vaccine's abbreviation is PPV23 and is not given during a child's normal immunization schedule.
 
This, PPV23, pneumonia vaccine is the one that everyone needs to get for added protection during a pandemic.  My children are scheduled to receive theirs next week. 
 
I'm sorry if my previous post created any confusion.  Please speak to your children's doctor regarding their immunization records and regarding this particular vaccine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willow41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 4:53pm
Tazman- try the area Urgent Care clinics. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2006 at 7:50pm
Taz,
                         Did you try the state Health Center?  It is free for at risk groups. If you and your family are not 'at risk".........LIE!!!!  We did! Desperate times call for desperate measures. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2006 at 7:31am
I too live in MI and no luck here withthe state or all docs. I had to go through the VA because of a specific health condition that I have. But they make no exceptions here! I knwo I called the whoel state with no luck. Tell me if you got a better outcome! Good Luck, April
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debtrag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2006 at 12:17pm
Called health dept request a pneumonia shot.  She asked why I felt I needed one.  I told her that Bird Flu starts in the lower lung and paves the way for bacterial pneumonia.  She asked me if I wanted to be a nurse and made my appointment for pneumonia vax for Monday, also for my sister and mom.  I asked about my 3 yr old and 6 mo old.  She is going to investigate correct dose for children because adult dose is so large.  She explained they would need it because prevnar(baby shot) is not the same as adults get.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2006 at 8:02pm
I Got my shot on 03/24. I went to the state health department. I have chronic bronchitis and they agreed to administer it. It cost me $9. Now I need to work on getting my wife one. thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debtrag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 10:10am
Myself, my sister and my mom got ours on 3/27.  When I asked about my 3 year old, I was informed that she would be ok since she had her full course of prevnar.  Can someone let me know if they think this is correct.  She told me that prevnar covers 7 types of pneumonia and that she is a healthy child that should be fine.  I also know that the PPV does not take well to children under 3 or very old adults.  What should I do? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jdub2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2006 at 8:00pm
My Girlfriend and I are going in to a clinic where I know the Dr. tomorrow (March 30) to get our Vaccination.  I hate needles, but you have to do what needs to be done!!!  God Bless EVERYONE...Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willow41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 11:52am

Debtrag- I have young children, too. The pneumonia vaccine, PPV23 Pneumovax, is not the same as Prenvar the childhood  vaccine.  One of my children is 3 and just received the PPV23 pneumovax vaccine.  The childhood vaccine, given in 4 dosages, does not cover all of the bacterial strains of pneumonia only the most deadly to young children.  My 3yr old received all of his prevnar dosages and recently recovered from pneumonia! So, this week all of us got the Pneumovax vaccine.  go to www.cdc.gov , they have child and adult vaccine schedules along with detailed info on the different vaccines.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote willow41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 11:54am
Also, they will not give the pneumovax PPV23 to children under 1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debtrag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 12:19pm
Thanks Willow41.  I guess I will just insist that my 3 year old get the vaccine next Thursday.  Also my sister took her 7 & 10 year old daughters yesterday.  Boy was the 7 year old a basket case.  Unfortunately she saw her sister get the stick and then went balistic when it was her turn.  Told her mom it was the "worst day of my life", and this coming from the little trooper.  Well hopefully it will be the worst day of her life since she has so much more ahead of her.  Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elizabeth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2006 at 9:54pm
I got my shot this week.  Even if it doesn't help H5N1, I figure what the hell, at least I won't get regular pneumonia again for a while.  I had to plead with the doctor a bit.  She questioned it because I'm technically not old enough, but I pointed out to her that once you have had it a few times you are more likely to get it again.  She went ahead and gave it to me.  Now I just have to get the husband and adult kid to do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2006 at 11:19pm
So which type of bacterial pneumonia (secondary) does the bird flu cause? I see several types mentioned, but did not see where it gave specifics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Breeze26 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2006 at 7:01am
HI I'm in MI and would appreciate any advice.  My doc said the pneumonia vaccine would have to be given to my son, who is 2, in four doses.  Maybe he was thinking of the wrong vaccine. 
Anyways, he said that he's not giving the shot to his three kids because he wouldn't want to traumatize them like that.
 
Also he told me that he thinks the whole avian flu thing will be like SARS and blow over, and I shouldn't worry so much.  He told me for peace of mind that he would give me my vaccine, I refused, telling him I didn't want it if the kids couldn't get it.
 
I would appreciate any news articles, reports, etc. from reputable sites that can be dug up about the use of this vaccine or bacterial pneumonia w/ connection to the bird flu. 
 
Doc and I were talking and he said that there had been no H2H cases and I begged to differ.  I told him that even on the CDC website they stated there had been limited H2H.  Doctor basically said that this just means they don't know how they got it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2006 at 7:38am
Once again, please keep in mind that there is a difference bewtween bacterial and Viral pneumonia.  H5N1 produces VIRAL pneumonia and the pneumonia vac. you all are getting will provide NO protection.  The H5N1 virus kills within DAYS of onset of S&S and the VIRUS moves into the lungs almost immediately causing pneumonia. From the VIRUS.  I would be verry interested to see any report with sources, that says H5N1 killed via bacterial pneumonia.
Whom is behind the world ahead. There are many paths to tread. Through shadow, to the edge of night. Until the stars are all alight. Mist and shadow, cloud and shade. All shall fade, all shall fade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2006 at 7:47am
Anne, you have no idea what you are talking about. 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2006 at 7:54am

Who should receive the pneumonia vaccine?

The pneumococcal vaccine can lessen the chance of pneumococcal pneumonia, a major complication of the flu. The pneumococcal vaccine, however, is not a substitute for the flu vaccine. This vaccine helps to protect a person from strains of bacterial pneumonia. It is generally recommended for many of the same high-risk persons for whom influenza vaccine is recommended. People with emphysema/COPD, congestive heart failure, cirrhosis, renal failure, diabetes or Hodgkin's disease should be given the vaccine. In addition, individuals over age 65 and those who have HIV infection with no symptoms should receive the vaccine. Native Americans are also at risk. The pneumococcal vaccine is given every five to seven years. It is safe to receive both the influenza and pneumococcal vaccines at the same time.

http://www.njc.org/news/health-news/y2001/fluvaccine-2001.as px

Helping to prevent flu complications

With the recent flu shot shortage, the MGH and the Massachusetts General Physicians Organization will be offering the pneumococcal vaccine to help prevent flu complications for certain MGH patients. Posters and flyers about the pneumococcal vaccine were distributed throughout the hospital this week to help educate patients about pneumococcal pneumonia and whether they should ask their health care providers about the vaccination program.

http://www.massgeneral.org/pubaffairs/Issues/120304vaccine.h tm

  

Seniors Should Receive Pneumococcal Vaccine Now to Prevent Future Flu Complications

 

May is Older Americans Month

Philadelphia, PA, April 27, 2005– What can seniors do to avoid serious illness or even death if the flu vaccine shortage continues into the next flu season? Make sure they have received their pneumococcal vaccinations. While it is still vital for seniors to receive their annual flu shots, the one-time pneumococcal vaccination provides a lifetime of protection from pneumococcal pneumonia, a common and serious complication of the flu.

 

http://www.einstein.edu/aboutus/news/2005/article10708.html

 

Pneumococcal Vaccines

Experts are now recommending that more people, including healthy elderly people, be given the pneumococcal vaccine, particularly in light of the increase in antibiotic-resistant bacteria. This vaccine does not prevent influenza, but it may help prevent pneumonia in people who are susceptible to sever flus. 

http://www.nym.org/healthinfo/docs/094/doc94medictreatprev.h tml

Pneumococcal Vaccines

Experts are now recommending that more people, including healthy elderly people, be given the pneumococcal vaccine, particularly in light of the increase in antibiotic-resistant bacteria. This vaccine does not prevent influenza, but it may help prevent pneumonia in people who are susceptible to sever flus.

Candidates for the Pneumococcal Vaccine. A recently approved pneumococcal vaccine (Prevenar or PCV7) is very effective in children, and some experts believe that universal vaccinations for infants would prevent a million cases of ear infections as well as serious infections, such as pneumonia. In one study, a similar vaccine under investigation protected not only children in day care from serious respiratory infections, but their younger unvaccinated siblings had fewer infections as

 


Edited by Albert - April 08 2006 at 7:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2006 at 7:55am
Viral pneumonia is treated without antibiotics and is usually cured on its own over time.   Bacterial pneumonia can be lethal.
 
Take care
 
 
 
 


Edited by Albert - April 08 2006 at 7:56am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2006 at 9:46am
Originally posted by anon54 anon54 wrote:

Richard I have a link here for curcumin/peprine combo.I just ordered a bottle. Folks say this company is fast and reliable.www.iherb.com/curcumin3.html



If memory serves me, Piperine (Black Pepper) is a non-specific, short-acting, reversal antagonist, of the Cytochrome P4500 enzyme complex (in the liver.) If you are taking any prescription drugs, check first with your doctor, otherwise its quite safe. The same precautions apply to drinking grapefruit juice with certain prescriptions as well. My 2-cents.
    

    
    
    

Edited by Rick - April 08 2006 at 9:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seesthelight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2006 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Rick Rick wrote:

Originally posted by seesthelight seesthelight wrote:

Originally posted by AnnE AnnE wrote:

Once again, please keep in mind that there is a difference bewtween bacterial and Viral pneumonia.  H5N1 produces VIRAL pneumonia and the pneumonia vac. you all are getting will provide NO protection.  The H5N1 virus kills within DAYS of onset of S&S and the VIRUS moves into the lungs almost immediately causing pneumonia. From the VIRUS.  I would be verry interested to see any report with sources, that says H5N1 killed via bacterial pneumonia.


I agree with you AnnE.


And..>Albert  you need to do more research. take care.




Secondary bacterial infections are a consquence of a primary infection by H5N1 about 75% of the time. Your body goes into cellular shock-trauma and opens the door to opportunistic bacterial infections.[

Nobody here has a crystal ball. We all need to do more research, I beleive that is why we are having this discussion.



    
yes it is possible rick , question is will the pneumococcal vaccine help with the type of bacterial infection if this suprainfection occurs. I can only cite the fact that this was NOT the case with my son's death which was from a viral influenza resulting in viral pneumonia...and of course the multiple organ failure which caused his death due to the septicemia from the high viral load and replication which occurred very rapidly. albert should not say ANne didnt know what she was talkiing about , thats my point here.
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