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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Calculating preps for your family...

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worriedinMD View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 27 2006 at 5:50am
Hello all ~ I have been "lurking" here for quite a while, and this is my first post. I regularly (read: obsessively Wink) check this board for latest news and prep information.
 
Recent news from all over has me feeling that we are close to this all becoming a very unfortunate reality, and that has prompted me to take a HARD and REALISTIC look at my preps for my family.
 
To try to get a handle on how much food we will need, and to help focus on this ENORMOUS task ahead of us, here is what we did:
 
My DH and I made up a very simple menu for four days (to at least try to avoid eating tuna and powdered milk every day). I then used a spreadsheet to calculate how much of each item I need to have in order to feed our family (10 people) for those four days.
 
Once we came up with the four day totals, it was then very easy to multiply those totals to see how much we need for 30 days, 90 days, etc.
 
What I found really shocked me! I thought we were well prepared, but in fact I have VASTLY underestimated how much food we will use each day.
 
We were really conservative (IMO) planning the meals, and kept it super simple.
 
Sample Menu for one day:
Breakfast ~ one granola bar, 1 tbsp of peanut butter, 1/2 cup of canned fruit.
 
Lunch ~ 1/2 box of mac and cheese, and 1/2 can of veggies.
 
Dinner ~ 1/2 can of chunky soup.
 
Also 1 cup of milk per day, per person.
 
We tried to keep three meals each day, thinking that for the kids (and adults who may act like kids Wink), keeping the routine of breakfast, lunch, and dinner would be nice if possible.
 
For example, in our four days of menus, we have planned on 1/2 can of tuna fish per person, for two different meals. So for 10 people, we need 10 cans of tuna fish every four days! This turns into 250 cans of tuna fish for 100 days (approx 3 months). If we plan on 10 people eating 1 can of fruit per day, then we need 1000 cans of fruit just to get through 3 months! At last count, we only have about 250 cans. YIKES!
 
Yet another thing I underestimated was rice. I just did the math, and one pound of rice will make approx 10 cups of cooked rice. So if we plan on having one cup of rice per day for 10 people, then we need 1 pound of rice PER DAY. Our 50 pounds of rice will not last very long with 10 hungry people in our house.
 
I thought I was doing well with the tons of stuff already in the basement ~ now I have MAJOR shopping to do to even be remotely prepared for even 3 months. AND to make matters worse, I now believe we should really be prepared for 6 months at a minimum, one year to be comfortable.
 
This has really been eye opening for me and my DH. We used the same formulas to calculate rolls of toilet paper (one for each person every four days, or 250 rolls for 100 days), and all other items we think we will need.
 
It does help me to have REAL numbers to use to prep ~ now I will KNOW how many boxes of mac and cheese (800 for those that are wondering Wink) I need to have in my basement to even begin to feel ready for what is coming. My DH thinks that as we approach those numbers, my anxiety will ease off ~ but I have my doubts.
 
I would be happy to help anyone figure out the totals they need for their family if necessary, or provide you with our sample menus. I think the only way we will get through this is to help each other as much as possible, and this is the least I can do for any and all of you who have opened my eyes to the reality of what is to come.
 
Now we are off to the store...
 
 
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Thomas Angel View Drop Down
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The minimum daily caloric intake should be about 3500 calories.  Adjust your planning.
I LIKE SCARY RIDES
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote worriedinMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 6:05am
3500 calories!?!? WOW that changes things even more.
 
If you don't mind me asking, why 3500? I have a murky memory (from years of yo-yo dieting) that you need 10 calories per pound to mantain your current body weight. So a 150 pound person would need 1500 calories per day. Heavy activity or exercise requires additional calories per day.
 
If we need 3500 calories per day, for 10 people, for 6-12 months... my basement is simply not big enough. Cry
 
Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oknut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 6:08am
Worriedin MD - your sample menu idea is great. I think we need to try that out and see where we really stand too.

As you constant bring things home and prepare them for storage, it feels like you have enough to last for a very long time. I may be wrong about our preps too.
Thanks for sharing that idea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 7:43am
 hi to all don't foget the mayo,onions and what ever else you put in your tuna, i thought i was doing pretty good with 6 extra jars of mayo to start with , guess not and looking at your meal plans, its good ,but can you stick with that? no snacks , people eat more if they are stuck in the house,or in my case stressed out, what about crackers for the peanut butter and the soup and you don't have bread on the list , i might add ,you could make some plain white rice to add to the soup to make it more filling, can do trhis also with can stew       thanks for the infro, more to think about and more to spend     roxy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oknut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 7:52am
Mayo - I have a few jars but was concerned about lack of electricity to keep opened jars cool
Yesterday I found a site that sells individual packets of mayo and jelly as well as containers of gravy mix, soup base and bouillon. They accept PayPal too. Not sure how competitive the prices are, but the shipping was reasonable for the weight of my order.
http://www.spiceplace.com/
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worriedinMD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote worriedinMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 8:04am

Already even more to think about! Smile

We are considering mayo too - just a note, we bought a box of mayo packets a long time ago for something else, and after about a year I went to use them and they had gone bad. Don't know for sure how long they will last.
 
I was thinking that small jars of mayo would be best, as they will stay ok until opened, and you can use up a smaller jar much faster.
 
We have been thinking about ways to make bread. Tortillas are easy to make, and cook on a flat griddle. You only need a few ingredients that are pretty stable. My husband makes them all the time and they are way better than store bought versions. My kids will wrap just about anything in a tortilla, including peanut butter and jelly!
 
Any other ideas on bread making / baking if there is no electricity?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oknut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 8:13am
worriedinMD - I hope my mayo packets hold up long enough. I've been thinking about bread too. Our range is gas so we'd be able to cook inside as long as we had gas service. There's a thread started by Penham about solar ovens that is fascinating. I plan to build a couple of the cheap units using reflective sunshades and turkey sized oven bags. Maybe I could bake bread in those if I had to. I'm ready to try making our own torillas too. We love tortillas and you're right - you can put almost anything on or in them.
We have a very old frig in the garage that has a bottom freezer we seldom use for anything other than extra ice cube trays. I'm planning to pick up many 5# bags of flour and store them in there. Figure they'll get frozen to debug them and can just stay there until needed if the power goes out. Planning to store the cheap boxes of cornbread mix in there too.

I suppose we could make tortillas on the grill with a cast iron griddle or fry pan. Right now I'm thinking about the possibility of using a large, old enamelware roaster inside of an oven bag with the solar oven to bake small loaves of bread or cornbread.
Check out that thread on solar ovens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 8:18am
 hi to all, the mayo problem, some body posted here a web site to long term boating at sea, they never put the dirty knife back in the mayo jar,thus avoiding contamination,and it lasted a few days,but in the winter,it won't be a problem a cooler outside, in the summer i think the coolest part of the house will be in the basement , with that many people a medium jar of mayo will go fast if you plan meals around it, potatoe , tuna noodle, ham,turky, salads  or buy small jars for smaller groups roxy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 8:23am
 hi to all, coleman makes  an out door oven i brought after 911, can be usede on the grill ect., never had to use it but if i had to could make small amounts of muffins,bread. check it out , would need small baking pans and lightweight pans roxy
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Hello WorriedMd,

Thanks for the posting, the information is appreciated.

    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ironstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:08am
Mayo in a glass jar stored in a "dark, cool place" will last forever unopened and about 10 days opened (my 80 year old mom has never put it in the fridge).  Starches and fats are very important in planning.  Don't put the meals at 1,500 calories, you will be hungry all the time USDA says 2,000-2,500 for the average adult. 
 
I have peanut, olive and corn oil in preps but my largest amount is lard.  The other oils will go bad in a short time (8 months to about a year) lard keeps forever if stored right.  I melted mine and then ladled it into sterilized canning jars that were heated in the oven to 250 and then put on simmering lids.  They sealed immediately.  Just fill them to about 1/21-1/4 inches from the top of the rim.  Lard has a bad reputation but it is animal product and better for you than some of the other oils.  It has the added value of being satisfying to the stomach and will hep fill up the family.  Of all the oils (except bacon grease) it is the best tasting in a pot of dry beans.  
 
The thought of being locked in-doors and making meals means many of us start to think about eating healthy foods and making healthy meals.  That's true but it is not the time to skimp on calories.  It will be hard enough living with one another without the aggravation of being hungry all the time.  In the quarantine enviroment meals are going to be the one thing we will have to look foreward to or dread.
 
Count your calories in each meal and plan accordingly. For breakfast i have oatmeal and pancakes with the needed items of syrup and such, once in a while we will get breakfast gravy.  I did look at the breakfast bars but the   shelf life seemed a bit short and i felt they would not "stick to the ribs" long enough.
 
I have a lot of starches, fats and things needing sugar in my preps.  Not things i normally eat but this will really be the house from Hell if we are confined and hungry.  Things like tuna sandwich with olives, pickles and chips may help people to feel more normal when eating and those condiments will last a few days opened with no refrigeration.
 
There is so much information on this site and on others that it is hard to read enough but keep reading and learing.  I learn something new almost every day.
 
Welcome to the board, i am also new to the board but have been prepping for months now and watching BF for over a year.  Some very nice people on this board.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oknut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:28am
Ironstone - Thank you for all of that information.

I had no idea that you could use mayo beyond a few hours if not refrigerated. Could really kick myself in the butt now for buying those individual packets.

I will definately be canning some lard and really appreciate you posting the directions. I've put up some butter that way but hadn't thought of lard. It'll come in handy for making tortillas too. I was planning to buy more containers of crisco but will add lard instead.

Do you know if miracle whip/salad dressing keeps for days without refrigeration too?

Thanks
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Ironstone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ironstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:48am
Oknut, I'm sorry but i don't  care for the taste of mirace whip and i have only one jar stored for my daughter, so i can't answer your question.  I do have crisco stored and it lasts a very long time if unopened but it also has additives.  I  canned bacon grease the same way as i did the lard.  Being a southener, life without bacon grease is unthinkable. 
 
I got some corn husks for making tomales...still have to ask my neighbor how to make them and the fillings but i know i will need lard.  Check out the mexican section of the grocery too...i got canned salsa and canned cheese there.  They may not be as good as fresh but they will have to do.  I looked up the directions for making sour cream on line too and am going to try that as well as cottage cheese.  Those last two items should add a lot to my meals in taste.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:54am
Lable me confused: I thought Crisco was lard??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oknut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:54am
Thank you again! I have a container of bacon grease in my frig so I'l add that to some small canning jars too. Anything fried in bacon grease tastes good. I'm actually from Wisconsin, but moved south in '81. My grandmother (dairy farmer) fried everything in bacon grease. Fried carrots, fried potatoes, friend parsnips, bacon grease gravy - she called it milk gravy.
The hubby prefers mayo to miracle whip too so maybe I'll just pick up several small jars of mayo and be sure.
Guess I'd better get back to billable work.
Thanks again for all the great tips.
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Ironstone, I didn't bookmark the thing on marking sour cream. do you have the URL avaialble? TIA
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WorriedinMD, since you have such a large family to feed, you might want to check out restaurant supply stores. Almost everything there is in larger containers and CHEAPER.
I went last weekend to our local one and was very pleasantly surprised. Even though I am only shopping for two, there were quite a few items, like seasoned dehydrated black beans (which I have been wanting forever) and a bunch of other goodies, which you normally can't find in a regular grocery store at all. Give it a try!
By the way, it's been raining here in Northern California for like forever, and there were pallets of charcoal!!! Hmmmm 
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Table-cream can be found in the Mexican section of the store, usually.  Powdered buttermilk is in the baking section.
 
 
Cottage cheese.
 
 
When canning or storing bacon grease make sure all the water has left it...when it stops steaming and becomes clear in the frying pan.
 
 
Femvet, Crisco is to lard what margarine is to butter.
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Heck, I forgot to add: If you go, look in the seasoning isle for a dark brown bottle made by MAGGI. It's a liquid seasoning that you can use in anything (sparingly!!), gives great flavor. It's important to remember things like spices, herbs, SALT, water enhancers etc.
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Keep in mind young teenagers (particularly males) can consume 3,500 to 4,500 calories a day and not gain weight during growth spurts.You can supplement your diet with nuts to meet this calorie differntial for any kids. We keep nuts for the kids when camping.
 
Nuts and beans combined form a complete protein.
 
Peanuts are actually a legume or bean. So if you mix peanuts and any type of "nut"- almonds, pecans, pistacchio nuts you will have a complete protein.
 
Nuts will easily keep for a year, require no refrigeration, require no cooking, can be eaten frozen, are high in calories and fat, and are cheap. Combined with raisins, you have a complete protein, fat, and carbohydrates in the most compact form. They work well for backpacks, since they can not be surpassed for calories per pound.
He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm.Proverbs 13:20, The Bible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KatDoe67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 1:36pm
THe 4 or 5 day menu is the way to go! I got fixated on that reading the camping section of "Recipes for a small planet". I was also quite inspired by this site http://www.freezerbagcooking.com/ and it helps me to APPLY much of what I read in "Recipes..."
 
I realized I need to make mostly grain and potato flake based soups and add some dried vegetables and precooked dried beans.
 
I also bought a pressure cooker today to cook whole grains and beans with less fuel.
 
Once you start storing over 6 weeks, you really need to go the Mormon route of grains and beans, and buy less boxes and cans. I'll be using the dried veggies as more of a spice or condiment, rather than enough to provide calories. Calories will come mostly from the Mormon suggestions. The colorful veggies do a LOT to perk up a barley soup though!!
 
 
Also to store large amounts of bagged and boxed mixes, you might want to dump several small bags or 1 large one in a freezer bag and then store the freezer bags in metal trash cans. For mac and cheese, measure how much mac comes in a box, but dump all the contents of several boxes in 1 bag. You figured you would need 5 boxes for a meal right? Put all that in a bag.
 
For the kitchen cupboard I started using shallow boxes to put things in to hold the bottom row of jars or cans steady enough to add a second layer.
 
Crisco based biscuits will add calories and it stores a long time. The butter flavor is kind of fake tasting...but...satisfying if truly hungry. I haven't bought crisco in YEARS, but the stuff saved my life as a child on the island...and I've bought some and am experimenting with it. It DEFINATELY holds off hunger longer than white flour without it!!
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Oh, and if you can buy dried milk cheaply, buy more of that and several flavors of sweetened powder. That will provide calories for the kids and stacks nicely.

Instant pudding mix is expensive...but a good addition to dry milk. I'll be using my moms idea of several bags to a freezer bag and ditching the boxes.

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WorriedinMD- not everyone needs 3500 cal per day. that's ridiculous! calorie intake depends on the age/height/weight/and sex of the person.  I'm 5'5 and a female (not telling my weightWink) and have been told by my doctor that 1500 calories is plenty.  do you count calories for every member of your family now?, then you probably won't during a pandemic.
 
 the macaroni and cheese will require a lot of water to make.  do you have that much water stored? just having enough water for 10 people to drink will probably be a challenge for you, let alone water to cook with.  I would focus more on things that don't need water to prepare. Which is a lot of your canned foods.  We're only doing rice for one meal a day @ 1/2 cup per person. the 1/2 cup of rice with beans or cream soup plus pudding or applesauce will be filling enough. 
 
some food suggestions: canned beef stew, canned chicken n dumplings, canned vegies/potatoes, applesauce cups, pudding cups, ready to serve soups, dried fruits, granola bars, instant oatmeal, instant pancake mix, poptarts, crackers/snack crackers, canned beef/pork/chicken, noodles, chicken/beef broth to cook noodles/rice in
 
toppings for rice:  brown sugar, canned beans/seasonings, cheddar cheese soup, cream of chicken/mushroom soup, cream of chicken/herb soup, cream of onion soup.
 
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Worriedin MD, perhaps these will help you in your decisions.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KatDoe67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 3:12pm

I don't think it's possible for a family of 10 to store water or all canned goods for an extended period :-0 You just have to have faith you won't end out with NO water for an extended period of time. I cannot even BEGIN to store water or canned goods for 3 people. I just have to focus on what I can do!

As for calories, I think most people GROSSLY underestimate the # of calories they consume every day :-0 There are calculators. I used one awhile ago. I think it said that at 95 pounds and 5'2" I was supposed to have 1,400 at a sedentary activity level. I'd use a calorie calculator or the Morman calculators. A lot of research by MANY groups and individuals led to the conclusions they produce.

For most of us, all we can handle, is to store as many calories as possible, that will take as little fuel as possible, to cook :-0 I absolutely, positively would NOT just count on storing 1,500 calories for men or older children!! This is advice from someone who went hungry as a child :-0 I remember my grandma used to think she could just feed me on what SHE needed for a day's food :-( NOT!!!! I had to climb trees and steal food off them! At least living with her I got SOMETHING at every meal though :-0
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetpea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 3:30pm

I've lurked around long enough that  I just gotta put in my 2-cents - I figure that  being homebound during BF quarantine doesn't give one much exercise - unless you set up a home gym of sorts to work/walk off the excess calories. 

Bodybuilders consume between 3000 to 3500 calories to help build bulk, not what you might expect your petite little granny or small children to eat.  It may be wise to consult a nutritionist as to the ideal amount of calories for those that will be homebound.  If you plan to do any strenuous work or activity, you wouldl need to increase your calorie intake to boost your  energy level.  IMHO, I'm figuring 1800 - 2000 calories for the average adult in my family. 
 
A couple of ideas I'm throwing in for food storage are the $5 - $7 popcorn tins you get during the holidays.  They're quite airtight, so after you freeze your grains, pastas, what-nots, these cans would be great to store your foods in - and it might also be a good idea to put in an oxygen packet or two as well.  Soda pop bottles are great for storing grains as well, I'm sure you could roll up oxygen packets to put in as well.  They store great when stacked on their sides. 
A note here on storing foods on concrete floors - place several layers of cardboard or 1x4s between to keep the "chemicals" left from the concrete from leaching into your plastic/cardboard containers.  Also, careful what products you store by each other - plastics are easily permeated, you wouldn't want your bottled water tasting like vinegar or salsa would you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KatDoe67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 12:12pm
Download "Food Storage Cooking School"
 
 
It helps you figure out calories and # of servings from each food group and then how to figure out what to store for a year. It's about 140 pages I think and includes printable  chart worksheets for inventories and menu planning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maskman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2006 at 11:42pm
in a perfect world, there are rules that should always be followed - always wash you hands, always put mayo in the fridge, etc...
 
but your individual world may not always be perfect forever and ever
 
how will you adapt?  do you possess critical and creative thinking skills?
if so, great.  if not, maybe you should start to practice them.  it is still not too late.
 
start to think outside the box - it really is fun, and once you start, you will probably never go back.  there is no time like the present, so they say.
 
so be aware, learn all you can, question everything, and BE PREPARED!
 
and remember, the date on the can is the sell by date, not the date you throw it away.
 
if you have 3 months, you should be fine - just my opinion
i have a family of 4, and that's what we have.  2 small kids provided us with lots of challenges, but we should survive on our own for at least 3 months, and by then we can be eating out of the garden (if i trust the vegetables) - there are simply too many uncertainties right now about too many different variables to know anything for sure.
 
flexibility, redundancy and adaptability are more essential than ever.
 
we have at least 3 months worth of food, no matter what (barring a lightning bolt out of the blue that destroys our house - the least of my worries at this point).  everybodys situation will be unique, and only you know what you need for you and your family.  we have a well pump, so as long as the power is on, we will have water.  we have an almost-empty propane tank.   i have an order in - the truck should be here within a week or so, but i am not worried at all.  if we run out of propane, and if we can't get any more, i am not at all worried.  all we lose is hot water.  but the propane will be here before we need it, except in a worse case scenario.  if we were counting on it to cook food, boil water, or heat our house, i would have ordered it 2-4 weeks ago, and my tank would be full right now.  but for me, propane is a luxury, or an asset, much more than it is a necessity
 
WATER
 
the only true necessities today are food and water.  with everyone so focused on food - how much, what is a balanced diet, nutritional requirements, etc., it is easy to forget about water. 
 
you can easily live for a week or more without any food at all, as long as you have enough water.  this applies to healthy adults only, not children, and certainly not babies.  my only point here is, when push comes to shove, water is more important than food.  fresh water is our most important resource.  so how do you get enough water to last for 3 months?  i don't know
 
but i will tell you what we have done
 
as mentioned earlier, we have a well pump, and as long as we have power from the power co., we will have water as well.  we also have a gas generator for backup, as well as all the pieces to install a generator sub-panel.  the sub-panel has not yet been installed, but i know i want one.  we can certainly survive without one, but if you are thinking of a generator, you should also seriously consider a sub-panel.  we got out generator over a year ago - we are literally the last house on the line.
 
the generator works great, but power cords are a nightmare, so consider a sub-panel.
 
5000 watt gasoline  generator - cost $600 1 year ago
generator sub-panel AND  fuses - about $200 new last week
the sub-panel is not installed, but i have everything i think i need to
have an electrician get the job done.  and i also have a katadyn water filter on it's way in the mail.  no guarantee that it will ever get here, but i am expecting it tomorrow or the next day via us mail.  this will give us 6 months of water after the generator gas runs out
 
cost = $170, including shipping, for 35,000 gallons of potable water - all i have to do is add water, the filter does the rest.  and i know at least 2 fantastic water sources if the well ever runs out.  i hope i never have to use it, but it is one of the best investments for the survival of my family that i can think of.
 
but that's not fair - how did i know about katadyn filters?
 
i didn't
 
before 3 days ago, i never had heard of katadyn; i had no clue what a ceramic water filter was all about, nor where to get one. and i think there is less than a 50% chance that i will ever need mine, and i am hoping that i never need mine, but i am very, very happy that it is on the way to me.
 
if it is still brand new in the box 1 year from now i can resell it on ebay for at least $100, and probably more, if i think i need to.  if i have a reliable source of power, either from 2 hours a day on the grid, or a few gallons of gas a month from the local gas station or rationing. i might decide that i don't need the katadyn any more.  if there is rationing of vital supplies, how much would you be willing to pay now for a katadyn?  lets put it up on ebay and see.  what is 35,000 gallons of purified water worth now?
 
i can not imagine ever parting with mine now, and i don't even have it yet.
 
even though i bought one, i still know virtually nothing about it.  why did i buy it, you now ask?  4 simple words did it.  yes, that is correct.  i spent almost $200 on something i had never heard of before, based on 4 words from a total stranger that i never even talked to.
 
'i hugged my katadyn' when it finally arrived today
 
i had already identified water and food as my primary concerns, and such an honest and open expression of true emotion - well, that caught my eye.
 
i did not buy one then and there, but i went to ebay, looked around, and found a unit i will be happy with.  paid by paypal within a half hour of reading the post.
 
did i make the right decision?  i don't know - it's not even here yet.
 
but right now, the peice of mind is priceless.
 
so don't ask me what or how much you need - only you really know, based on your unique situation
 
if you need ideas, go to the top 100 list, and trust your instincts
 
good luck and god bless
 
 
 
 
breathe, breathe in the air
don't be afraid to care
 
leave, but don't leave me
look around, choose your own ground
 
 
 
 
 
hope and pray for the best; prepare responsibly for the worst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 31 2006 at 10:44pm
At the risk of sounding like a survivalist geek...

When planning for the number of calories per person per day, I think 2500 is in the right ballpark.  It obviously depends on temperatures, activity levels, and other factors, but 2500 is actually a bit higher than the kind-of-sort-of accepted standard of 2100.

Nuts and beans don't actually make complete proteins.  Grains and legumes make complete proteins, and nuts and beans are both generally classified as legumes.  The recommendation, for complete proteins, is to combine grains (rice, wheat, oats, corn, whatever) with legumes in about a 4 to 1 ratio (more grains than legumes).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KatDoe67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 6:09am

One of my mormon sources says 1 pound dry bulk food is about 1,600 calories. The backpacking books say to plan on 2 pounds food per person per day minimum, but that is for active people. This is for DRY food, NOT canned!! beans, rice, dry milk, sugar, etc.

Complementary Plant Protein Sources

 

Food

Amino Acids Deficient

Complementary Proteins

Grains Isoleucine

Lysine

Rice + legumes

Corn + legumes

Wheat + legumes

Wheat + peanut + milk

Wheat + sesame + soybean

Rice + sesame

Rice + Brewer's yeast

Legumes Tryptophan

Methionine

Legumes + rice

Beans + Wheat

Beans + Corn

Soybeans + rice + wheat

Soybeans + corn + milk

Soybeans + wheat + sesame

Soybeans + peanuts + sesame

Soybeans + peanuts + wheat + rice

Soybeans + sesame + wheat

Nuts and Seeds Isoleucine

Lysine

Peanuts + sesame + soybeans

Sesame + beans

Sesame + soybeans + wheat

Peanuts + sunflower seeds

Vegetables Isoleucine

Methionine

Lima beans + sesame seeds or Brazil nuts or mushrooms

Green peas + sesame seeds or Brazil nuts or mushrooms

Brussels sprouts + sesame seeds or Brazil nuts or mushrooms

Cauliflower + sesame seeds or Brazil nuts or mushrooms

Broccoli + sesame seeds or Brazil nuts or mushrooms

Greens + millet or converted rice

Adapted from Diet for a Small Planet by Frances Moore Lappe, Friends of the Earth/Ballantine, New York, 1971

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweetpea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 8:17am
Thanks Katdoe67, good list for food combinations there, and such a variety  ...
"When an emergency arises, the time for preparation is past."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 10:56am
 I am buying first rice as my basic and cans goods as I think starting with rice you can afford to feed everyone .    I will have 300lb of rice in small packs of one weeks worth .  My aim is to have a year of rice then can goods. 
  More than half of the world survives on rice plus additons of food from other sourses.  Add vegetable from garden when available plus spices
can food when fresh not available .
 
More than half the world eat rice evey day as a staple and I beleive we
will need to go back to old way of cooking .
 
I will also have flour and sugar,  honey , surup , juice  pancake mix and dried fruit and nuts
 
And I am obsessed with water . I am terrified of thirst and drinkng bad water.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ironstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 2:15pm
Akkkk...no potatoes on that list!  They will have to pry the potatoes out of my cold dead hand!   Life without potatoes is just not worth living.  Got rice but it is a poor substitute.  No such thing as a "bad way" to cook a potato.
Ironstone
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siameselade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 2:30pm
question Whats Jasmine Rice like?  I bought a big bag at costco the other day, Only ones left.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 2:43pm
On the food packets in the uk it says 2000 cals for a woman 2500 for a man.  Ideally you should have 20-30% of calories from fat (9cals per gram), 10% from protein, 10% from sugars (or less) and the remaining 50-60% from carbohydrate.  The last three are 4 cals per gram.
 
On a diet of 2000 cals that would be approx 200 cals protein (50g); 200 cals sugar (50g); 600 cals fat (66g); 1000 cals carbohydrate (250g dry, uncooked).  So for a hundred days (to make it easy), for a woman, you'd need 25kg rice/flour/pasta oats/barley or whatever cereal you like; 5kg beans, 5kg sugar (or high sugar food like raisins, dates etc), and 6.6kg butter/lard or /ml cooking/olive oil.  1/4 as much again for a bloke.  More if active or pregnant (not the bloke!).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KatDoe67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 2:50pm
The list doesn't include milk and only focuses on plant proteins. Remember that milk eaten with grains does more than add the the protein in the milk, It also alows us to use more of the amino acids in the grain as usable protein.
 
Eating WHITE rice ONLY will quickly lead to malnutrition, especially Beri Beri. Did I spell that right? When we have a REASONABLE amount of meat, dairy and produce in our diets, we can function nicely on white rice and flours. Brown rice and whole grains are necessary when eaten almost exclusively, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bridge Lifter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 8:04pm
Siameselade:  Answer- Jasmine rice tastes very good. I don't know how they scent the  rice but I really like it.  I think you will too.   Actually you probably won't even notice the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siameselade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 8:14pm
Thank you I will look forwards to trying it. Wink
Siam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jefiner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 8:27pm
3500 calories is high for an adult.  2000 to 2400 for an adult male, 1500 to 2000 for a female.  One assumes if we are confined to quarters, our caloric output will be reduced (except that which is expended in climbing the walls!)
 
I have extra kilocalories on board, as they say...Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siameselade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2006 at 8:44pm
I think we will all be losing some weight, we will need to ration our preps because unless you have more than 18 months worth, how do you know when it'll end. Unhappy
Siam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2006 at 8:45am
Originally posted by Jefiner Jefiner wrote:

3500 calories is high for an adult.  2000 to 2400 for an adult male, 1500 to 2000 for a female.  One assumes if we are confined to quarters, our caloric output will be reduced (except that which is expended in climbing the walls!)
 
I have extra kilocalories on board, as they say...Embarrassed
I'm 48 yrs old, 5' 9", weigh about 135 lbs.  2500 calories per day doesn't fuel it now.
 
Consider that ( whether you are overweight or not) you'll be doing a whole damn bunch of things you haven't had to do or have never done before so add additional activity. 
 
Add stress to that.  Add sleeplessness due to longer hours to accomplish the same things you were doing before there was no gasoline and you didn't have to carry water a couple miles every day, lug a rifle and pack everywhere, etc. etc..
 
3500 calories per day per person.  That what I am basing my preps on.
I LIKE SCARY RIDES
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2006 at 8:52am
Originally posted by Ironstone Ironstone wrote:

Akkkk...no potatoes on that list!  They will have to pry the potatoes out of my cold dead hand!   Life without potatoes is just not worth living.  Got rice but it is a poor substitute.  No such thing as a "bad way" to cook a potato.
Agreed, wholeheartedly agreed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2006 at 12:20pm
I am buying rice mostly 300 lbs to start for three people because I can add things to it to make it taste better and to be healthier.   I also am aiming for a thousand cans of food plus a herb garden and dried fruit and nuts.
 
Most of the world live ona rice based diet.  And it makes sense in harsh times.  Rice can be mixed with sauces it can be served on the side with can meat and vegetables .   It can be stretched out if this lasts longer than we think planned for.   I can mix  it with fresh goods from the gardens
 
Jasmine rice is my favorite  it has a nice flavor and can be served plain with a little bit of veggies on the side.   My other favorite is Thai ricei
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2006 at 12:22pm
HI to all, this is my first post here; I have been reading for several weeks now and just wanted to say a THANK YOU for all of the information.  Being from hurricane country one would think preps are easy but in reality there is much more to think about than just being ready for a storm; there easy, you know when they are comming.
 
MaskMan:  You may want to consider a conversion kit for you generator to allow it run from propane or gas.  When I purchased my generator I had the kit added because gas became hard to find after the storms because of no power to pump the gas.  This would allow you to be able to pump water from your well when you need it. (One's own well, what a resourse).
 
Thanks again!
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