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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

Roche: Tamiflu production exceeds demand

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redcloud View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:32am
Saw this at Forbes.com:

Humer's Roche: Tamiflu Capacity Exceeds Orders
Parmy Olson, 03.16.06, 2:43 PM ET
     Franz Humer

London - Drug glut? Roche Holding became a favorite of the pharmaceutical industry thanks to its flu-busting Tamiflu, and for a while governments looked to be falling over themselves to stockpile the drug. Now it appears that state administrations around the world are lagging in their orders, to the extent that Roche says its capacity is "well in excess" of all its government purchases.

The Basel, Switzerland-based firm led by Franz B. Humer ramped up its Tamiflu capacity after striking pacts with several production partners like PPG Industries (nyse: PPG - news - people ) and Sanofi-Aventis, and expanding its own facilities.

"We stand ready. There should be no holding back," William Burns, chief executive of Roche's Roche Pharma unit, was quoted as saying by The Associated Press. By the end of this year, Roche said it would be able to produce enough Tamiflu to treat 400 million people.

Since 2005, however, the company's political customers have ordered less than half of a single year's worth of Tamiflu production. Roche said it was willing to keep investing in the drug even without government orders coming in, but sooner or later will have to scale back if the purchases don't pick up.

Roche says it has received and fulfilled Tamiflu orders from more than 65 countries. A fully effective vaccine for a human strain of bird flu wouldn't be developed until the virus emerges and experts can specially tailor the vaccine. More...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:59am
ARGH! Everyone has been saying that there is no Tamiflu to be had - because the government can't buy it - because the company can't make it fast enough!

(not that I'm convinced it will work anyway, but geeeze.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 10:04am
Well if there is suprluss then hopefully the price will come down so we all can afford to just buy our own instead of hoping the government will have some for us!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 10:14am

updated:

 

Swiss pharmaceutical company Roche Holding AG said Thursday it has greatly increased its capacity to produce the antiviral drug Tamiflu, but that government orders to stockpile it were lagging far behind.

"Our capacity is well in excess of all government orders that we have received to date," said William Burns, chief executive of the Roche Pharma unit. "We stand ready. There should be no holding back."

The drug is regarded as the best initial defense against any human pandemic resulting from a mutation of the deadly bird flu virus.

Burns told reporters that Roche is expanding its global network to produce Tamiflu in nine countries and more than 15 partner companies. By the end of this year, Roche will be able to produce enough Tamiflu to treat 400 million people, he said.

Total government orders and commitments received since 2005 to buy Tamiflu are less than half the amount Roche and its partners will be able to produce in a single year, starting next year, said Burns.

Roche is willing to take some of the risk and make investments without government orders, but sooner or later will have to scale back if the purchases don't pick up, he said.

He noted that the drug has a long, five-year shelf life, so it will help governments in developing their stockpiles.

David Reddy, leader of Roche's influenza task force, said the company still makes its top priority producing the drug for ordinary seasonal flu, but that the demand is much less for that than for the stockpiles in case the H5N1 strain of bird flu changes into a form that easily passes from human to human.

"We don't know when a pandemic will come, but we do know" that seasonal influenza kills 250,000 to 500,000 people each year, Reddy said. Tamiflu was originally designed to combat seasonal flu, and is especially helpful for people such as "the frail elderly" for whom flu vaccine is inappropriate.

So far H5N1 bird flu remains very difficult for humans to catch, and almost all of the 177 cases and 98 deaths confirmed in people since 2003 have been individuals who had close contact with poultry.

Experts, however, have been working on global plans to stop a human pandemic should the virus mutate into a form easily transmitted from human to human. Tamiflu is a large part of that planning.

A fully effective vaccine for a new human virus cannot be developed until the virus emerges and specialists can tailor the vaccine to the new strain.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 10:17am
I would like to add having 400 million doses is a drop in the bucket to the some 6 and a half billion people on this planet...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maskman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 10:20am
esp.  if 400 million is really only 100 million effective doses
hope and pray for the best; prepare responsibly for the worst
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 10:28am
thank you maskman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 10:31am
OK everyone.... Correctness of what was printed in the story aside....
 
EVERYONE PRINT OUT THE ARTICLE AND RUN, YES RUN, TO YOUR DOCTOR'S OFFICE WITH PRINTOUT AND DEMAND YOUR TAMIFLU.  There is no shortage... <waving the printout under his/her nose>  "GIMME MINE"!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 3:20pm
BUMP
 
I want to hear printers whirring out there!
 
SZ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 3:22pm
oh...i have no ink for my printer..........but SZ read between the lines
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 3:32pm
???? My bi-focals aren't real good at reading between the lines.  PM me if necessary please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redcloud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 3:35pm
For me, the following was the scary part:

"Roche is willing to take some of the risk and make investments without government orders, but sooner or later will have to scale back if the purchases don't pick up, he said."

Meanwhile, we are lulled and coddled and reassured by promises of 17 million doses in reserve. Why contract for more, when the danger is "covered."
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Originally posted by muskrat muskrat wrote:

I would like to add having 400 million doses is a drop in the bucket to the some 6 and a half billion people on this planet...


The amount of Tamiflu available will depend on, if you use the standard dose.


J Infect Dis. 2005 Aug 15;192(4):665-72.

Virulence may determine the necessary duration and dosage of oseltamivir treatment for highly pathogenic A/Vietnam/1203/04 influenza virus in mice.


Yen HL, Monto AS, Webster RG, Govorkova EA.

Department of Infectious Diseases, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, Memphis, Tennessee 38105-2794, USA.

BACKGROUND. Control of highly pathogenic avian H5N1 influenza viruses is a major public-health concern. Antiviral drugs could be the only option early in the pandemic.

METHODS. BALB/c mice were given oseltamivir (0.1, 1, or 10 mg/kg/day) twice daily by oral gavage; the first dose was given 4 h before inoculation with H5N1 A/Vietnam/1203/04 (VN1203/04) virus. Five- and 8-day regimens were evaluated.

RESULTS. Oseltamivir produced a dose-dependent antiviral effect against VN1203/04 in vivo (P<.01). The 5-day regimen at 10 mg/kg/day protected 50% of mice; deaths in this treatment group were delayed and indicated the replication of residual virus after the completion of treatment. Eight-day regimens improved oseltamivir efficacy, and dosages of 1 and 10 mg/kg/day significantly reduced virus titers in organs and provided 60% and 80% survival rates, respectively (P<.05). Overall, the efficacy of the 5- and 8-day regimens differed significantly (death hazard ratio, 2.658; P<.01). The new H5N1 antigenic variant VN1203/04 was more pathogenic in mice than was A/HK/156/97 virus, and a prolonged and higher-dose oseltamivir regimen may be required for the most beneficial antiviral effect.

CONCLUSIONS. Oseltamivir prophylaxis is efficacious against lethal challenge with VN1203/04 virus in mice. Viral virulence may affect the antiviral treatment schedule.


PMID: 16028136 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16028136&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum
    
    
    
    
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Here it is in plain ENGLISH.....

Study: Oseltamivir helps mice survive H5N1 infection

Jul 18, 2005 (CIDRAP News) – Researchers report that the antiviral drug oseltamivir helped mice survive infection with the H5N1 avian influenza virus, boosting hopes that the drug could be an effective weapon if the virus sparked a human flu pandemic.

Up to 80% of mice treated with oseltamivir survived the infection, whereas all mice treated with a placebo died, according to a report by a team of leading influenza virus researchers in the Journal of Infectious Diseases.

The team also determined that the current strain of the H5N1 virus, which has killed at least 54 people in Southeast Asia in the past 19 months, is much more virulent than the H5N1 strain that killed 6 of 18 people infected in Hong Kong in 1997.

The H5N1 virus is regarded as likely to trigger a flu pandemic if it evolves into a form that could pass easily from person to person. If that happens, it will take months to produce a vaccine specific to the virus. In the meantime, oseltamivir (Tamiflu) and similar drugs, called neuraminidase inhibitors, might be the only effective medications for preventing and treating the illness, according to disease experts. Neuraminidase inhibitors block a protein that enables flu viruses to leave host cells.

"We need to know whether antiviral drugs can prevent and treat avian flu, because in the early stages of a global outbreak, most people would be unvaccinated," said Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease (NIAID), which sponsored the study. Fauci was quoted in an NIAID news release.

The NIAID said the study is the first published research on the use of oseltamivir against the H5N1 strain now circulating in Vietnam. It was conducted at St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis and authored by Hui-Ling Yen, Arnold S. Monto, Robert G. Webster, and Elena A. Govorkova.

The investigators used an H5N1 strain derived from a Vietnamese patient who died. They inoculated 80 mice with the virus and treated them with one of three possible dosages of oseltamivir (0.1, 1, or 10 mg/kg of body weight per day) or a placebo. The highest dosage was proportional to the dosage humans receive when treated for the flu. Thirty mice received oseltamivir for 5 days—the same regimen as is recommended for humans—while 30 received the drug for 8 days.

Survival rates for the mice depended on their daily dose and regimen length. Five of 10 mice that received 10 mg/kg/day for 5 days survived, but all the mice that received lower doses for 5 days died. Among mice on the 8-day regimen, the survival rates were 1 of 10 on the lowest dose, 6 of 10 on the middle dose, and 8 of 10 on the highest dose.

"The eight-day dose of oseltamivir allowed more time for virus levels to fall and less chance for avian flu to rebound after the drug was stopped," the NIAID said. In mice on the 5-day regimen, analysis of the lungs showed that the virus survived and grew again after the treatment ended. Most of the mice that died had severe neurologic symptoms.

The researchers found that oseltamivir was less potent against the 2004 Vietnam strain of H5N1 than it had been against the 1997 Hong Kong strain in a previous mouse experiment at St. Jude's. Therefore the investigators compared the virulence of the two strains by assessing their growth and infectivity in chicken eggs, canine kidney cells, and mice. They found significantly higher yields for the 2004 strain than the 1997 strain.

"The higher brain and blood titers in mice infected with the VN1203/04 [Vietnam 2004] virus indicated a greater propensity toward systemic spread," the report states. It adds that the higher virulence of the 2004 virus may help explain why oseltamivir didn't work as well against it.

"The H5N1 avian flu viruses are in a process of rapid evolution," author Govorkova said in the NIAID release. "We were surprised at the tenacity of this new variant."

The researchers also did a genetic analysis to look for any emerging mutations that could make the virus more drug-resistant. They sequenced the neuraminidase and hemagglutinin genes from several viruses isolated from the mice and found no amino-acid changes.

The NIAID noted that H5N1 virus was found in the spinal fluid of a Vietnamese boy who died last year, suggesting that the virus is able to infect the human brain. The authors say more research is needed to determine if a higher dosage or longer regimen of oseltamivir might stop the virus from growing in the lungs and spreading to the brain.

They conclude that it is "encouraging" that the 2004 virus was sensitive to oseltamivir in mice, even though a longer treatment regimen and higher dosage were required.

Yen H, Monto AS, Webster RG, et al. Virulence may determine the necessary duration and dosage of oseltamivir treatment for highly pathogenic A/Vietnam/1203/04 influenza virus in mice. J Infect Dis 2005;192(Aug 15) [Abstract]

 

Center for Infectious Disease Research & Policy
Academic Health Center -- University of Minnesota
Copyright © 2006 Regents of the University of Minnesota
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Tamiflu's recommended dosing for the flu is 1 capsule 2 time a day for 5 days. Any one who purchased tamiflu has 1 "dose" which is a total of 10 capsules. This study states that giving the  "recommended dose" for five days had a 50% mortality rate. For 8 days 20% mortality rate. This mean that you need a minimum of 16 capsules. Since the virus was still shed after 8 days, I would think that is where they have come up with the 10 day, or doubling the dose for a total of 20 Tamiflu capsules.  I must point out that ALL THE MICE DIED that were given NO TAMIFLU!! So it seems that we are going to need much more than we originally thought!! I hope this helps...

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Ah... Diane,
 
I have calculated it out to be FORTY capsules.  2 caps twice a day for 10 days.
 
Now, that's just me... making no medical recommendations here folks.... just what I plan to do for mine.
 
SZ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 8:34pm

No it is 2 capsules a day/ 1 capsule twice a day. Normal dosing is for five days. that is a total of 10 capsules. That is what you get in the tamiflu box. I am looking at one right now. 10  75mg Capsules. If you read in the article that I posted it says that the highest mice dose of 10mg per kg  works out to the normal human dose. That is 2 capsules a day. It isn't increasing the daily dose it is increasing the length of time...

"The highest dosage was proportional to the dosage humans receive when treated for the flu. Thirty mice received oseltamivir for 5 days—the same regimen as is recommended for humans—while 30 received the drug for 8 days."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:10pm
       
Originally posted by muskrat muskrat wrote:

I would like to add having 400 million doses is a drop in the bucket to the some 6 and a half billion people on this planet...


The amount of Tamiflu available will depend on, if you use the standard dose.


J Infect Dis. 2005 Aug 15;192(4):665-72.

Virulence may determine the necessary duration and dosage of oseltamivir treatment for highly pathogenic A/Vietnam/1203/04 influenza virus in mice.


Yen HL, Monto AS, Webster RG, Govorkova EA.

Department of Infectious Diseases, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, Memphis, Tennessee 38105-2794, USA.

BACKGROUND. Control of highly pathogenic avian H5N1 influenza viruses is a major public-health concern. Antiviral drugs could be the only option early in the pandemic.

METHODS. BALB/c mice were given oseltamivir (0.1, 1, or 10 mg/kg/day) twice daily by oral gavage; the first dose was given 4 h before inoculation with H5N1 A/Vietnam/1203/04 (VN1203/04) virus. Five- and 8-day regimens were evaluated.

RESULTS. Oseltamivir produced a dose-dependent antiviral effect against VN1203/04 in vivo (P<.01). The 5-day regimen at 10 mg/kg/day protected 50% of mice; deaths in this treatment group were delayed and indicated the replication of residual virus after the completion of treatment. Eight-day regimens improved oseltamivir efficacy, and dosages of 1 and 10 mg/kg/day significantly reduced virus titers in organs and provided 60% and 80% survival rates, respectively (P<.05). Overall, the efficacy of the 5- and 8-day regimens differed significantly (death hazard ratio, 2.658; P<.01). The new H5N1 antigenic variant VN1203/04 was more pathogenic in mice than was A/HK/156/97 virus, and a prolonged and higher-dose oseltamivir regimen may be required for the most beneficial antiviral effect.

CONCLUSIONS. Oseltamivir prophylaxis is efficacious against lethal challenge with VN1203/04 virus in mice. Viral virulence may affect the antiviral treatment schedule.


PMID: 16028136 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16028136&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum
    
    
    
    
    
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 9:11pm
Okee Doke.
 
 
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My dosage decision aside...
 
We all need to also note that the mice were given Tamiflu FOUR HOURS PRIOR TO BE INFECTED.
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That's why when this goes human to human my husband will go on it prophylacticly, with my daughters and I staying home. He is an Airline Captain, and will have high exposure. It is expensive, but with three young girls at home with severe Asthma, We don't have a choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redcloud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 11:05pm
SophiaZoe,

On what do you base your planned dosage as being twice what is mentioned in the article (or twice Diane's)?

Not criticizing, just trying to understand. Given the mice parameters as outlined in the article, what then is the most effective dose, in your opinion, and how did you arrive at it??

Red
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Yes I was wondering that also. Do you have medical info to back this up? I have only found the above study and  another case where there is the possibility that the prophylactic dose was ineffective at one capsule a day. This is a little iffy, since the girl in question may have already been exposed from her brother. I  Don't have  the info now, I need to get the kids off, but will try to find it and post it later.
 
Please clarify your thoughts. SZ, I  JUST CAN"T  UNDERSTAND your recommendation of the DOUBLE DOSE A DAY. In the study they gave three different doses to the mice. .01mg/kg  1mg/kg and 10mg/kg. The 10mg or the highest  dose is equivalent to the human recommended daily dose. The only thing this study seems to prove is that you need to extend the time from 5 days, to 8 days. Meaning a total of 16 capsules, not 40. This is also emphasized by the fact that your doctor doubled your dose, by writing you  prescriptions for 2 doses for each of your family members. He didn't quadruple it and write it for 4 doses for each family member. The standard recommended dose is 2 capsules for 5 days. In mice that produced a 50% mortality rate. The 2 capsules a day for 8 days produces a 20% mortality rate. That is a TOTAL OF 16 CAPSULES. Since the virus is still shed after 8 days, it would make sense to go to 10 days, making it a total of 20 capsules, not 40.  Re-read the article Above. I worry that you will needlessly put yourself at jeopardy by giving your two kids a dose of 40 capsules, and leaving none for you and your husband. This could be over medicating your kids, and could possibly leave them orphans for no medical reason. Please don't take my word, please take the study to your doctor and ask him. It seems he understood the dosing recommendation from the study to be a for a double dose needed, not a quadruple dose. PLEASE, PLEASE check this out!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 10:00am

Well Diane,

NO WHERE HAVE I RECOMMENDED A DOSAGE TO ANYONE.  I simply stated what I had planned to do for my Twenty-Somethings.

And this is what I base it one...

I will have ONE SHOT.  My son weighs in at just under 200 lbs, well he did prior to our personal world crashing in on us... he has lost weight.

Medical dosage is almost always based on men with a standardized weight of something like 140lbs.

The test results were flawed in that the mice were administered Tamiflu 4 hours prior to infection with H5N1.  I will not know he is infected for up to 72 hours (if I'm lucky) so I will likely be administering Tamiflu after the 48 hours normally stated for the successful treatment window.  So, given that I will be slow out the gate, I will throw what I feel is "Best" available at it.
 
Administering of a dosage that is "Not Enough" is as bad as not administering anything, it just delays the agony.  It's a ONE SHOT GAMBLE.  I would not have the opportunity to back up and re-group if I discovered the dosage was not strong enough.
 
And to really set your hair on fire... I will be co-administering Amantadine.  The synergy of the two seems to suggest benefit.
 
BUT I STATE AGAINE...... I AM NOT RECOMMENDING YOU DO THIS. 
 
Most here have NO Tamiflu, let alone 20 caps or 40 caps.  It's an exercise in debate only.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 11:33am
I am also planning on forty capsules per person.  JMO!!!
 
No recommendations or medical backup.
It's not so much the apocalypse... but the credit card bills ;-)
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SophiaZoe,
I just wanted to know where you are getting your calculations. Everyone on this board respects your opinion, and if you say "Ah... Diane,
 
I have calculated it out to be FORTY capsules.  2 caps twice a day for 10 days.
 
Now, that's just me... making no medical recommendations here folks.... just what I plan to do for mine.
 
SZ"
 
You are inferring with the statement " Ah... Diane, I have calculated it out to FORTY capsules. 2 caps twice a day for 10 days." That you "CALCULATED" is in the  mathematical process. In the above article it is CALCULATED to 16. I agree that it is a once and done shot. And I may add more as well. It is just that to most people on this forum they respect you, and will take your word as scientific fact. It isn't. It isn't a CALCULATION, It is a GUESS! You very well  may be right, god only knows what this world is in for. With all your knowledge, it is probably a very good educated guess. However it is not a "Calculation". Some may take your guess as scientific fact. It is not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 6:40pm
Diane,
 
Once again... Okee Dokee.
 
You have made your point.
 
I have made mine.
 
I make no pretensions as to my "expertise".  And I am at a loss as I have a fried laptop with my original data on it.  Anyone who bases their medical decisions based on anything ANYONE here posts without independent research or corroboration is being foolish in the extreme. 
 
If a pandemic happens with H5N1 we will all have to make decisions.  We will have to live and/or die by those decisions.  I would hope that people would make those decisions based on more than what they find listed here.
 
While I choose to go with my original calculations, you are quite correct to point out to the board that I don't scientific research to back up my conclusions.  I thank you for your service to the furtherance of our collective education.
 
SZ
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I posted this in the other thread but I will post it again in this one just to make sure that my bases are covered....
 
And just so that people don't think that I pulled this out of my butt.... 
 
 
Vietnam selected for modified Tamiflu therapy pilot program
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Vietnam, together with Thailand and Indonesia, was chosen for pilot implementation of an adjusted anti- bird flu therapy using Tamiflu medicines, Vietnam News Agency reported Thursday.

The program, an initiative of the World Health Organization ( WHO) and the U.S. Health Institute, calls for doubling the daily dose of Tamiflu for those people infected with bird flu virus strain H5N1, from 150 mg to 300 mg per day per patient, according to a three-day symposium entitled "Avian Influenza Clinical Trial for Southeast Asian Countries" which ended here on Thursday.

The adjustment was made based upon experimental results showing that a double dose is enough to prevent H5N1 from replicating in animals'bodies and that a 150-mg Tamiflu dose barely helps reduce the density of the deadly virus in human bodies.

Based on results of the modified Tamiflu therapy pilot program, the WHO will make new recommendations to countries on bird flu treatment using Tamiflu to minimize the disease's fatality rate which now stands at more than 50 percent, the agency said.

Five of the 11 medical institutions chosen for the pilot therapy are in Vietnam. They will be provided with medication and equipment necessary for executing the trial therapy.

A total of 177 cases of human infection of bird flu, including 98 fatalities, have been confirmed in seven countries, namely Vietnam, China, Indonesia, Iraq, Thailand, Cambodia and Turkey, since 2003, according to a statement of the WHO posted on its website. Vietnam has been the hardest-hit country with 42 deaths from bird flu so far.

Source: Xinhua

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 7:36pm

I was not challenging you. nor was I inferring that you YOU THINK you  are an expert. I am saying that you are a fountainhead of knowledge. When you say something people just think you have all the research done, just sitting on your desk. I like you, have done a lot of research over the past 2 1/2 years, and i hadn't come across anything with those numbers. I was worried that I missed some important data. I have done the planing for my family with the numbers I stated. I am now at ease, knowing that you weren't referencing some data that i missed.

Thanks
Diane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 8:05pm
Thank you for the data that you are basing your increase to 4 capsules a day. However They didn't mention that they ALSO  extended the time period.  I am aware of this study, and the dosing days is 5. 4 X 5 is 20, not forty. I still stand by the statement that it should be 20, not 40 going by scientific data alone.
Diane
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