Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Preparing for Disruption of Food Supply - Event Date: May 16 2006 |
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TotallyReady
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Posted: May 16 2006 at 2:26pm |
Here is an article from my blog that I thought I would share here as well. I think that it is very relevant to this discussion:
What would happen to our food supplies if there was a pandemic and/or large-scale disaster?
During a pandemic, communities could be quarantined - which would mean no one and nothing could travel in or out of the affected area. There could also be disruption of the supply chain in areas where earthquakes, hurricanes, floods or tornados have crippled or disrupted transportation.
In either scenario, grocery stores and pharmacies would be out of products in a matter of hours. Everyone living in the area would depend on their own emergency preparedness for the duration of the quarantine or shortage. This might only be the beginning, in case of a pandemic. People who work in the food and farming industries would not be able to go to work even if they were healthy. Healthy workers might stay home even in areas that were not quarantined to prevent infecting their families. That means crops would not be planted and those that were already planted would not be fertilized and harvested. Foods that were already harvested would spoil because there would be no place to have them canned or preserved. This would mean dramatic shortages of food for at least a year until the next harvest season. Steps You Can Take To Be Better Prepared:
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Carolyn
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I'm confused. Why wouldn't a healthy farmer be able to plant, fertilize and harvest crops on his farm? It seems like an ideal "job" that allows him to stay in isolation from others during a pandemic and still earn a living.
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I think her point is that the larger population can't really count on farmers getting back into volume production of food because farmers can't risk being around all of the staff that would be necessary to do all of that planting and harvesting. Individual farmers can surely plant some crops, but that is not going to be nearly enough to feed more than their family, friends and perhaps a few others.
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If you are talking about small vegetable or dairy farmers I agree.
However, I doubt grain farmers on the prairies have much "staff". They have some pretty pricey farm equipment which allows them to plant acres of grain.
It's quite a sight to drive on the prairies and see the massive fields of wheat and other crops. Edited by Irene - May 16 2006 at 4:12pm |
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MAJDAD
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 19 2006 Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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Folks you have to remember that most of the "family run" farms are gone. What we have are mostly big companies that lease out the land to many growers that then harvest and take to the company grain soles. |
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Major Dad hopes you are all alive and well and looking out for each other
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xx
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I agree with you that very automated operations might not require much human contact. They would, however, require tremendous amounts of fuel, which may not be available!
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I'm in Canada. The Canadian prairie provinces are located right beside Alberta, our big oil producing province. Edited by Irene - May 16 2006 at 9:29pm |
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I know this figure sound ridiculous, but I was researching an article
and came across the reference that America is losing 300 small farmers a day.
I didn't believe it, until I finished researching my article. It's true. The mega-farm-corporation monopoly has got us all by the short-hairs. If they fail, we fail, it's that simple. There are many other possible "gotcha's" to societal collapse besides pandemic. Having all of our eggs in one basket create incredible vulnerabilities for every American. The rising costs of energy (fuel) to run these farms is already being reflected throughout the entire economy. What will happen when one or more nations shut off the oil artery? This is only one of many areas that are being overlooked by many people when they consider our "dependency" status on the mega-corporations to keep us all alive. Simply put, we live (exist) because they continue to function. If they were to stop functioning for any reason, so would we. You can't just rush out and plant a garden and sustain yourself. This doesn't work and requires a lot of time, commitment and favorable factors. Meanwhile, if all goes well, you still have to eat. The actual calorie requirement for each human is now being met only because of the mega farms we have today. Disable the farms (for any reason), you disable the people (think die-off). We could switch to locally grown, but not fast enough, and not wide enough to avoid massive starvation. Pandemic is only part of the problem. Starving to death is another. |
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xx
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Thanks for the referral. I have read some of his work during my
own research. I doubt very many people realize just how
serious the situation is. We're too isolated from the cause
and effect that we're creating.
I'm almost finished with Jared Diamond's "Collapse" which depcits the global environmental destruction (food sources) of past and present societies. The current situation should be clamoriing alarm bells worldwide, but is still barely getting noticed. I am beginning to doubt that the human race will survive another 200 years. The exponential increase in failed ecosystems, collapsing species, pollution, fresh water, salinity, climate change, overgrazing, loss of topsoil, overpopulation and many other factors indicate a massive shift from mega-production farms (failures) to locally grown (if possible). But there is a lot of doubt in my mind that this paradigm shift is even possible. I'll go into this more on my blog in articles to come. |
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MercutioATC
advanced Member Joined: April 25 2006 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Even if farmers could produce food, how does it get from them to you? Eating (for most people) is dependant not just on farmers, but also the transportation, distribution and oil industries. Think one or more of these might fail in the event of a major pandemic? I do. |
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Cygnet
Valued Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Farms require a fair amount of fuel and power to operate.
You need: Fuel for the tractors (and parts) Electricity to run the well pumps for well-irrigated crops, and to water animals. A cow can drink 50 gallons of water a day. Electricity for refrigeration to keep crops and meat cold until it can be shipped. Certain crops also need to be dried. For farms, fuel for the vehicles and infrastructure used to feed the animals -- it'd take a LOT of strong labor to carry bales of hay by hand to every cow in a large feedlot. Fuel to deliver crops to market -- semis need a LOT of fuel. Fuel & electricity to run packing & processing plants -- and the labor for this. For dairy farms, electricity & supplies needed to milk the cows. This is NOT done by a young woman sitting on a stool beside a doe-eyed brown cow anymore. It's done by machine. And they need disinfectants and parts in addition to electricity to run the milking machines. If they can't milk the cows, they're up a creek -- the cows may very well develop mastitis and die in a big hurry. One farmer (or farmer's family & employees) are NOT going to be able to milk all the cows on a large dairy operation by hand. Certain crops also need lots and lots of labor. Most fruits and many veggies are picked by hand, not machine. Leva |
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TotallyReady
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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I am so happy so many of you have jumped in to comment. I was a
little discouraged that at first this topic seemed to be taken too
lightly. I live in the central valley in CA and I see dozens of
ranch hands out every day, planting, weeding, fertilzing, harvesting
and packing produce. Yes, all of this also takes lots and lots of
fuel and a huge delivery system. It also takes lots and lots of
water which also takes people power to maintain and operate as well as
electrical power. Grandpa was a bee keeper and they are also an
essential part of the chain as fruit and nuts all need to be
pollinated. Dad had laying hens, 500,000 to be exact, and eggs
need to be collected and processed every day. People who live in
the city and those who are only familiar with grain operations do not
comprehend the complexity of our food chain. Thank you to all of
you who have shared your thoughts and helped to inform. It is my
hope that they will now begin a dialogue with their friends and inform
others.
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Carolyn
Owner - Emergency Specialist www.totallyready.com |
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I Know that in Europe during the depression and the two world wars people would come from the city to work the farms in exchange for food. I imagine we will see something along those lines again.
When I was stationed at Fort Ord, CA a lot of the military families would be allowed to pick the fields after the harvest was over.
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i dont think everything would empty out but i do belive there would be shortages
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AuntBones
Adviser Group Joined: December 09 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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I live near many farms. Most people living here dont even know that the corn growing around my town is feed or seed corn.All of the farmers work in factories due to the need of health insurance.Small family run farms are a side jobs. When a storm hits my area the farmers sure do run to the stores for food. Some city folks think farmers are sitting on food. That was true 30 years ago.It may be diffrent in other areas, but not here.I do believe if BFpandemic hits the stores will be cleaned out in 1 hour. I base this on the amount of food stores that have gone out of busines in the last 5 years.
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Fastcard
Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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Whatever, family farms are dead.
The answer is simple it is c alled gardening, even if it is in containers. This is a great time to start. Do not forget sprouting either......a supply of living food even in an apartment. |
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A Bible verse that is just perfect...... for the situation. |
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Fastcard
Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Status: Offline Points: 216 |
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opps144,
Everything will empty out, as soon as there is a percieved shortage. Just ask the people in Hurricane country. |
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A Bible verse that is just perfect...... for the situation. |
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purplepanther
Adviser Group Joined: March 04 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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I read somewhere that grocery stores keep 1 to 2 week supply in the stores . So you can imagine how many people who are not prepared may not even get food to eat and the panic they would be in if they waited the last minute to buy anything.
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Actually, I heard that in most metro areas, the grocery stores only stock enough food on hand to feed the population of the area for a few days. The first ten or twenty people to a particular store will likely clean it out of bottled water and long shelf-life food.
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I lived in the Metro NYC area for most of my life (although I'm in the southwest now.) We had a rip-roaring blizzard the winter of '93/'94 and it shut down the highways for a few days.
Toilet paper went first (I remember pushing the cart down the aisle at ShopRite and the entire aisle was empty. The meat case was empty, the dairy case was empty too. There was some stuff left in the baking aisle and canned goods but grossly depleted. It shocked me!
Ever since then I've kept a month's supply of tp in the house. Now with bf pending, I've seriously started prepping. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions since it has taken my shopping list from one page -- to several.
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Penham
Chief Moderator Moderator Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14913 |
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There is no way grocery stores have a 1-2 week supply on hand. As a vendor, I have worked in many different stores and most grocery stores have what is out on the shelves. There is very little in the stockrooms, stuff that is going on sale, some canned goods, they have a refrigerated section in the back with milk and some dairy but not huge amounts, even Walmart does not have a huge backstock. Most items are delivered on a daily basis or several times a week: dairy, bread, beer, soda, chips are all delivered by individual vendors (the Lays guy delivers his chips, the Toms guy delivers his chips, the Pepsi guy delivers his products, the Coke guy delivers his products) etc. Sure there are a few pallets of things in the back, but nothing even close to what is on the floor. You might see a big truck pull in to make a delivery and it may only leave 1 or 2 pallets of something, he is making deliveries all over, not just to one store. As a shopper, I know any time bad weather comes along and there is any notice, the stores are wiped out of things like bread and milk, the basics, and that is in one day. I have no doubt that there will be shortages. I was in Walmart yesterday and they had NO bottled water in the gallons, their shelves were bare, they only had a few 2 gal containers and individual bottles/cases. When you see shelves empty like that you can be assured there is none in the stockroom, because they would not be losing $$$$. If they had it, they would stock it just like any other store, they are out to sell it and it's not going to sell in the stockroom. So yes, I am sure there will be shortages, especially with people being ill and unable to make deliveries. All these people have routes and work long hours so even if one or two gets sick, then someone has to take over their route, they don't just have extra employees to make deliveries, so some deliveries will not get made and the employees that do work will be overworked.
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TotallyReady
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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I have been concerned about the availability of prescription meds
during a crisis. I have not been able to have my meds filled
completely several times in the past few months and I take very common
medications. You would think they would have plenty of the common
ones in stock. They do not. Ask your dr. for samples of
your meds or if your insurance will not allow you to fill yours early
ask the dr. for a second prescription and have that filled. If
you have a prescription written for the amount of pills in the original
bottle (usually 100 pills) from the manufacturer you can get
prescriptions very inexpensively at Costco. They love it if you
purchase the whole bottle and they don't have to count anything
out. Also the dates on meds, other than liquids, are pull dates
not expiration dates. The meds are good for a year after that
date. So...get a month or two ahead, always use the oldest first,
and you will be prepared for shortages. After all, someone has to
drive delivery trucks to pharmacies also. By the way, my
grocery store was out of water today too.
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Carolyn
Owner - Emergency Specialist www.totallyready.com |
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MercutioATC
advanced Member Joined: April 25 2006 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Be careful with this. Some meds (Penicillin is one, if memory serves) actually become toxic past their expiration dates. |
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TotallyReady
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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I checked with my doctor and also a pharmaceutical manufacturer and the
1 year rule applies to most meds. I would always check with your
pharmacist or doctor to make sure. Again remember this is pill
form only.
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Carolyn
Owner - Emergency Specialist www.totallyready.com |
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Mississipp Mama
Valued Member Joined: January 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 524 |
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A couple of days ago I was talking to the manager of Walmart, I asked him had many people started buying hurricane supplie yet. He said yes, they seem to be buying a lot of water, flour and sugar. Flour and sugar does not seem like normal hurrican supplies to me. He also said that they, had sold 500 gas cans per week, for the past 3 months. So somebody is getting ready for something. |
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I see the same thing up here in N.CA. While I still believe that most people don't have a clue, my sense is, that more and more people are quietly starting to prep. I've personally met several people who are, but are not saying a word to anybody, for much the same reasons we tend to be quiet. Fear of ridicule, robbery etc. After one particular BF news show several weeks ago, I went to my local discount grocer and the dry goods in bins were being raided! There was actually a line. Just a precursor for what it will be like when it really hits.
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I finally found a Canadian source for #10 cans of dehydrated foods. When I was talking to the owner on the phone, long-distance, he told me that his sales spiked up after the Oprah Winfrey show on Bird Flu a couple of weeks ago and he was having trouble keeping items in stock.
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Irene, please post the company's address site over in the Canadian section. You will help some people out.
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I've been waiting to do that until I receive my order and can recommend the company. Although the company has a website, the owner isn't computer literate and doesn't seem to have seen the site. His son put it up but I'm not really sure he's involved in the business - just helping his Dad out. The prices aren't all up to date on the site either.
The owner doesn't accept credit cards, only checks. When I e-mailed my order and asked for shipping charges so I could pay, I got an e-mail from the son, only after I phoned when I hadn't received a response. I was told not to send any money until I heard from them, probably in about 3 weeks time, as they didn't have everything in stock and didn't know if they could get everything I'd ordered.
On the plus side, the owner was really nice to talk to on the phone and I enjoyed our conversation about bird flu. He's had his business since the 1970s. My original order came to about $700. I asked if he offered discounts for large orders. The owner told me that if I bumped my order to $1,000, he'd give me a 40% discount. Of course I adjusted my order.
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I think it closer to three day supply for essentials and high demand items. milk bread fresh produce. One or two week supply or ketchup and salad dressing maybe |
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I have noticed sugar is low in a lot of stores. I bought 20 bags long ago and that for three people and I dont bake . My next urgent item is flour poor wheat crop expected.
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Wal-Mart has flour 25lb bags for 7.97. I see they are not as numerous as before. You will have to freeze them for about 5 days and then store them in buckets,add some bay leafs. Buckets are 3.97 and bay leafs are 1.57 at Wal-Mart also.
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TotallyReady
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Be careful when storing flour. It has a short shelf life.
It is best stored in the freezer or canned in a # 10 can with an oxygen
packet. If you have Mormon friends they can advise you if there
is a church cannery in your area and they have the ability to can many
items and it is cost effective. You can also bring your own
products to these canneries...ask around. You can also vacuum
pack flour and then store it in a dark, cool place to extend the
life. Remember pests love...these so place them in a container
that is rodent resistant.
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Carolyn
Owner - Emergency Specialist www.totallyready.com |
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Safety Lady
Valued Member Joined: March 22 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 88 |
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Most of the stores in our area are having 10/10 sales or better. It is really strange to go to the grocery store and see many aisles with large empty spaces. I have never experienced a time when aisles are empty or near empty. I am pretty well stocked up (every cupboard, behind beds, in the storage room etc.) But when I want something I don't want to go to three stores to find it. I can imagine what it will be like in a real crisis.
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SafetyLady, which state are you in?
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When I started food prepping in late March, I checked for expiry dates on everything I bought. What has surprised me now, almost 3 months later, is that I am seeing the same expiry dates on some cans in the stores. Either the stores haven't sold out what they have in stock or the new stock they are getting in has been warehoused somewhere for at least 3 months.
I've had the same experience at Costco with the Chunky soups and with packages of dried fruit which I like.
I think we may see a temporary shortage of food when people panic, then a period where food will seem plentiful as warehoused food is brought in and THEN unless the pandemic waves are short, we might see a period of food shortages, with the warehouses bare and less food being produced and/or transported.
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TotallyReady
Valued Member Joined: May 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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Exactly!! Have you ever noticed that it is common for several
grocery or pharmacy stores have the same items on special the same
week? This is because the suppliers have run their own special
prices to their customers. When you see huge discounts it is
almost always a sign that the items are about to expire so
beware. As discussed before, foods are warehoused off site not at
your local store. But remember that is still a pull date not an
expiration date. You do not need to throw these foods away.
Use common sense and discard cans and packages that are bulging or
foods that smell or look discolored. Boil foods uncovered for 10
minutes and this should assure foods are safe unless there is bulging,
a strange smell or discoloration of the food, in that case...toss it.
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Carolyn
Owner - Emergency Specialist www.totallyready.com |
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