If you don,t have a firearm

muskrat wrote: I thought get a cap gun and caps..makes one big noise and would scare any type of would be intrudure...

Would probably only scare the complete morons.   Big difference between a pistol shot and a cap gun.

Everyone here will no doubt have a different opinion - here is mine.  For the money, local pawn shops would offer the best deals, remember that their marked price will be high(still much less than new) and they will come down usually quite a bit off that.  A shotgun makes good home defense, you just point in the general direction and pull the trigger.  If you are not acusstomed to shooting I would reccomend a 20 gauge since the recoil is less.  This is for close up defense - someone trying to come through your window or door.  That would be my first choice, value to use.  Second choice would be a lever action rifle.  Dad's often buy these as a first deer hunting weapon for their kids and they are generally plentiful.  They have range that a shotgun does not have but you have to shoot more accurately with the rifle than the shotgun.  I think they are good for home defense since a round can be chambered very quickly.  My thought is that if I am trying to break into your house and I hear a loud noise then wood glass whatever bust up around me, even if you did not hit me - I think I just might leave.  If you buy at a pawn shop look at the general condition - ask if you can return the weapon if it is prone to jam, or any problems within the next few days with purchase of a different weapon.  The laws on purchasing weapons are different everywhere, but  shotguns and rifles are generally more relaxed than hand guns. 

I hope this helps

ok it was a thought...

Here is my take on the gun issue.

First,

I have a few guns and I suppose the first one should be a cheap shotgun you can get one at walmart or Big 5 sporting goods store. Second, a Beretta 950 22 cal. pistol would be a good option.  Old military bolt action rifles are a great option if you have a sight to go with it. lots of stores have ammo for rifles and shotguns

Second

Go to a sporting goods store or hunting store and ask if they know of someone who teaches firearm safety and shooting.   Pay the person to train you the right way to shoot. dont be afraid to fire your gun at least 1000 times or more.  Find out who has ammo and shells for your gun, stock up on the ammo.

Third

plan the firezones in your home...  Develop plans to fire the guns.

CupcakeMom,

Owning and wielding a firearm (however benign the purpose) is an awesome responsibility.  I would never criticize anyone for choosing not to have one in their home.  It is a very personal decision.  There are too many variables - someone may feel unsafe due to inquisitive children or elderly residents who are not "all there".  Some may be subject to a mood disorder or even a temporary depression which makes them question their own personal safety if they were armed.  Some may simply lack knowledge or training, or have an irrational phobia that they cannot master, which can make them feel uncomfortable in the presence of a firearm.

All of these concerns can be dealt with and overcome, but it is no one's place to tell another that they must own a firearm.  There are other means of defense - Pepper spray, taser, or even a ball bat behind the door.  Perhaps a knife as a last resort, or a skillet or a rolling pin.  Even kicking and screaming beats nothing at all.  But these are of limited use if the agressor has a firearm.

Like you, I have lived off the beaten path and never felt safer in my life.  However, please do keep in mind that if/when resources are exhausted in the urban areas, there may be floods of desperate people who pour into the countryside in search of resources or fleeing the urban chaos.  Hopefully they will never make it to where you are.  I envy your isolation.

I do worry, like you, about untrained people who bought a gun 10 years ago and have it in the bottom drawer of the nightstand where it has sat the entire time next to a box with a few mossy old rounds.  I worry MORE about all the people who are sitting back, thinking they don't need to prep because if it gets that bad (like we saw in New Orleans) they know the local Walmart has guns that they can steal, and then use them to get whatever they want. 

If a pandemic and economic chaos descend, I don't plan to be roaming the streets looking for trouble.  But if trouble comes knocking, I want to be prepared to respond in kind with the most capable and effective means at my disposal.  The most powerful and effective means available to me are my firearms.  I will not have them sit idle if by their judicious use I can keep my wife and myself from harm.

Choosing to have a firearm in the home is a big decision.  Choosing NOT to have one, in my mind, is an equally big decision.  Each of us chooses our own way, may we be granted the wisdom to choose well.

Edited by bruss01

CupcakeMom wrote: I appreciate your thoughtful, reasoned response, Bruss01.  I worry about innocents getting shot.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when a gun is in the home, family, friends and neighbors are statistically much more likely to be shot with that gun than any criminal is.  What if stupid parents leave a loaded gun somewhere in the house (if a stranger approaches, they might not want to unlock the gun cabinet, the unlock the gunlock, then unlock the ammo box, then load....).   If someone approaches for an innocent reason (needing help? wanting to give information?)  one of you out there in cyberspace who is stocking up on a pandemic booze supply even as I write this, might shoot when you're two sheets to the wind.  Will you be wanting to talk first to see 'who' it is, if it's at night?  Just be careful...

Like Bruss said, no one can tell you that you MUST own a firearm, but by the same token, in all of your worry, I hope you arent misplacing that to try to tell others they CANT own a firearm.  It's not someone else's business either way.  Accidents can and will ALWAYS happen with anything you can conceive. 

Cupcake Mom,

If there is anyone out there "stocking up on a pandemic booze supply", and they do shoot someone when they are "two sheets to the wind", no amount of concerned posts and worry on this site will stop that from happening.  Some people are irresponsible and will overreact.  That can't ever be changed.  Unfortunately, those people make responsible gun owners look bad.  Personally, having the protection of firearms gives me GREAT comfort and a solid sense of security.  And I don't say that as a general rule.  I have firearms that are a hobby and I love to shoot for fun, but at this point in time I do not look at them as a means of personal protection.  Come pandemic days...that's a different story.  It's a personal decision for each of us, and I have the utmost respect for someone who does not make the same choice as I.  I would just hope that you do not classify all firearm owners as drunken, trigger happy, yahoos who shot first and ask questions later.  Training and common sense are the key to safe and effective employment of firearms.  Most people have the common sense part down, and a little training would go a long way in completing the circle.

Just my thoughts...Dave   

Having a firearm and knowing how to use it in a time of crises is the same as having the proper tool for the job at hand.  It can be a mean world out there at times and what is possibly coming may be one of those times.  Self protection and protecting your family should be right up there with lots of food and water.  If one needs to pound a nail and the only tool in your toolbox is a block of tofu - LOL!.

 

 

Here are the two guns you should own.  As a rep for a company that does SWAT Team training I feel confident in these two choices for the money.

1. Glock pistol either model 17,19,22,23 these are the 4 glocks of choice=$550

2. Remington 870 pump shotgun 12 guage=$250

both of these guns are very reliable and easy to use.  make sure to go to a range and learn to use them.  Most police dept offer training courses for free or very little money. Use what the pro's use nothing less your life depends on it! Also buy new not used if possible

I am a single mother living on the edge of a large metro area.  I am just as afraid to own a gun as I am to be without one during a pandemic?  I considered other options like fake quarantine signs to ward off intruders.  But maybe potential intuders might learn that these signs are a welcome sign that people inside have preps.  What about mace or a fake dog barking alarm?  I don't know what to do.

A glass of gas  to throw and a book of matches!  Not a pleasant thought but very effective!  Decide if you're willing to kill and then decide what you're willing to use.  Guns are neat and clean, gas and matches will do the job in a less pleasant way.

 

Yes, I'm not a very nice person!  Even worse I mix paraffin shavings and soap powder with the gas in the glass, sticks better that way! 

Marjo wrote: Over here in The Netherlands it is not legal to own a firearm, unless you use it for sport or for your job (police etc.). In both cases it is forbidden to have those firearms at your house, they have to be put in vaults at work or at the training facility. (which *I personally* think is not a bad idea as there were exactly 201 murders in 2005 in our entire country!! )  I'm sure it is possible to buy one on the black market: sometimes we have criminals that kill each other (hurray!! ), but if I would do that I have no opportunity to learn how to use it well and to practise. So.... I won't be able to use a gun and will have to rely on other means of protection. What do you all recommend? (BTW, tasers and pepperspray are also illigal and can not be bought in a store.)

Marjo - Please forgive me if I make any false assumptions.  Based on the fact that firearms, tasers and pepper spray are all illegal for civilian posession in the Netherlands, it sounds like the people and the government are confident in the government's police and military's ability to provide basic necessities and protection for every citizen.

I don't know how to say this other than, um, I hope it works out that way for you.  If you disagree that they will be able to provide sufficient protection in a widespread crisis, what are your options?  Learn a martial art?  A slingshot?  Crossbow (are those legal there?).  Two-by-Four?

For those Americans who are reading this, take note:  Without concerned gun owners constantly fighting for 2nd Amendment rights, this is exactly the situation we would all be finding ourselves.  Utterly frightening. As Marjo notes, no matter how restrictive the laws become, the criminals will always find a way to get a gun.  It is only the law abiding that are disarmed by restrictive firearms legislation.

Marjo, I wish you the best, I really do.  All I can suggest is to ask around and see what forms of self-defense are legal in Holland. 

Ever see one of those horror movies where the bad guy gets in the families house to attack them and they are trying to figure out what to do...they are all about to die and you say to yourself as you are whatching..If only they had a gun they could kill the GUY!!!! Why don't they have a gun! AAAAHHHHHHHH then they all die.

Maybe you should get a gun if you don't got one.  Just a thought

If you live in the US and in a state where you can get a concealed carry permit I would suggest that you get one el pronto.  Most gun shows offer 1 day classes.  In some states (fl being one) I think it is legal for anyone (who is not a felon and is of sound mind) over (21?) to carry a loaded and concealed gun in their vehicle. You might want to check your state laws on the net.   In those areas where they have taken away your guns - ie. England, Australia, etc. the crime rates do not go down - they go up.  surprise surprise..  Who ya gonna call? 

A plastic look-alike gun might work as a bluff but I wouldn't count on it. Make sure to  paint the orange tip black.  Running out the back door and letting the looters have all your stuff might just be the more prudent response if you don't have a suitable weapon.  Would be a good idea to have a stash of goods hid in a really secure location - just incase your main stash got looted or confiscated.  Rest assured in many areas your goods will be scooped up by the local officials (for the common good) and you will be looked upon by all the hungry people that did no preps - as one of them nasty hoarders. 

If you don't believe in guns, refuse to own one, etc. you might want to get in front of a mirror and  practice cowering, crying, and begging for your life because that may be your only resort.  Reason flies out the window in times of chaos. 

Living in relative peace and security is wonderful but please realize that if you live in that kind of an area your peace came at the cost of many lives over many years and peace is usually the result of law and order.  Remove law order and peace will quickly run away.  The ebb and flow of human history is a strange mix of peace and war - on both large and small scales.  The directions things are going in now seems anything but peaceful.  People may very well end up being responsible for their own security and safety.  I would act and plan accordingly.  The movie Mad Max from our Australian friends   is a great study in the breakdown of all law and order.  A state of mind is a powerful tool in itself.  No matter who you are, where you are, or what you have - try to develop a survivor type of mindset.  It will be one of your greatest assets if tshtf. 

Mary Kay wrote:   Just the sound of the gun being cocked is enough to send someone running. Mary Kay

 

True story:  My mother told me once she was lying awake in bed and heard someone jump our fence and start walking toward the house. 

She grabbed my dad's 12 gauge, cocked it as loud as she could and said in the direction of the window, "You'd better hop back over that fence".  She heard the person promptly run and hop back over the fence.

 

danc-

good stuff!  When I was young I couldn't wait to join the service and go fight for my country in some obsure place called Viet Nam.  The closest I got to any action was having our ship shot at by snipers on land while we were anchored off the coast of Chu Lai.  You'd hear a 'ping' every now and then as we offloaded troops and supplies.  We learned to walk on the seaside of the ship.  I eventually ended up at a crypto facility in Japan where we would scan the 'kill lists' every morning for lists of the dead and injured from the day before.  Sometimes the lists would just go on and on for pages.  Once in awhile I would see a name i knew, but each name was someone's husband, son, brother, or friend.  Death is a nasty business and killing is no fun. 

If you choose to have a gun for protection - Know your target before pulling that trigger.  Make sure it is absolutely necessary.  Understand the possible repercusions.  And take responsibility for your actions.  Also realize if you hesitate to act when absolutely necessary,  and you end up on the losing end - the perp. is probably not going to give two hoots about your sorry dead ass.

Note:  If tshtf over time there will be lots and lots of homeless, anbandoned, starving, sick, and mentally ill people wondering around.   Be prepared to help those in need that cross your path.  Not every stranger that comes to your door is a target.

 

Well, Ty.... welcome aboard.

We couldn't answer your query without knowing your circumstances.

You might find it helpful to search this site, search feature located upper right, for guns, shotguns, etc.  We have some incredible information posted by a couple of VERY knowledgeable posters. 

After you have done some reading then if you still have questions, we can address them. 

I agree about the XD-40. I really love mine.

For those of you who can't afford to add a firearm to your preps, or don't want to for whatever reason, I would suggest that you try to coordinate with your close neighbors to work out a mini-neighborhood watch plan. Get yourself some "air horns" like the ones used at sporting events. Work out watch shifts where you either look out the window, or venture out close to home.

In case of intruders, start making noise, then run and hide (if you like). This will alert your neighbors and give them a chance to do something defensive, regardless of what type of capability they have.

(When I hear the alert, I'm coming out, and God help anyone who doesn't belong there.) :-o

I am a gun person, like them shoot them, HELL I even clean them. But to answr Tys question on shotgun ammo, I keep 500 rounds of mixed loads, 4s 6s 8s and just a handful of #1 buck, about fifty of them. All these are #12 and I probably have 250 of 16 and 20 gauge also.

It bothers me to hear people that don't own guns talking of running out and buying one. First a junky gun will get you hurt or killed. If you buy one, only buy it after taking training, shooting several, and get one you are safe with.

Just because, some people can shoot the HELL out of a major caliber weapon, doesn't mean anyone can. How many people buy a tractor trailer for their first car? Don't buy a HUGE, complicated weapon for your first weapon.

A hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a cannon. Get you a small air rifle to learn to shoot with, they won't kill someone by accident, but can ruin an eye, with one bad shot. You can learn to shoot in any backyard or large room, using a bb trap.

My homest opinion is this, if you are not a gun owner and user now, spend your money on other things that may help you better. It takes a lot of time to learn weapons and safety, don't waste time, you can never get it back.

Oh, the pic of the two options for shielding yourself - I am still rolling on the floor.  I sent it to all my gun-nut friends.  What a sad (and sometimes true) commentary.

Something else to think about.

-R

TNbebo408 wrote: I am a gun person, like them shoot them, HELL I even clean them. .. It bothers me to hear people that don't own guns talking of running out and buying one. First a junky gun will get you hurt or killed. If you buy one, only buy it after taking training, shooting several, and get one you are safe with. Just because, some people can shoot the HELL out of a major caliber weapon, doesn't mean anyone can. How many people buy a tractor trailer for their first car? Don't buy a HUGE, complicated weapon for your first weapon. A hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a cannon. Get you a small air rifle to learn to shoot with, they won't kill someone by accident, but can ruin an eye, with one bad shot. You can learn to shoot in any backyard or large room, using a bb trap. My homest opinion is this, if you are not a gun owner and user now, spend your money on other things that may help you better. It takes a lot of time to learn weapons and safety, don't waste time, you can never get it back.

Tnbebo -  Got to agree with you on several points... a cheap gun of unknown quality is a bad investment.  A person with a gun who doesn't know how to use it safely and effectively is better off without it.  For an inexperienced gun owner, a complicated firearm is a bad idea, since under stress you forget things.  A person who lives in a household with only adults, who has only enough food and basic necessities to get thru the next week, has better things to be spending money on than a first firearm. A big powerful gun you can't control or shoot well will be less effective than a small gun that you can control easily and shoot well.  The only way to know what your abilities are is to get out and get experience.

Now, having said that, I will add a few caveats.  First, if a person has others who depend on them for safety (children or elders) one must consider how to provide protection when 911 call responses are delayed or unanswered.  Having a firearm and knowing how and when to use it is a proven effective means of doing this.  If a person has no provisions, obviously that should be the primary concern.  But I question the wisdom of having more than a month's food and water, and no way to defend the preps, let alone the individuals in question.  Is a $200 shotgun really that prohibitively expensive?  For some, possibly.  For others, that's what they spend per month at Starbucks.  Don't automatically assume that bigger is better.  If you handle a 20 gauge better than a 12 gauge, which do you think is a better investment?  If you like the .45 acp for it's "stopping power" but consistently shoot higher scores when using a 9mm, remember a hit with a 9mm beats a miss with a .45.  Guys, especially, let ego get in the way and think they have to have a bigenboomen loudenthumper magnum - Some guys at the indoor range recently had a S&W .500 that had such massive blast and recoil that it was making ME flinch.  The only thing that gun is good for is proving yourself a victim of testosterone poisoning. 

As far as learning to use a gun being a waste of time for a bird-flu prepper - I want to respectfully disagree.  With a few rare exceptions, every adult ought to be able to defend themselves against threats on their person.  Parents are responsible for protecting their children.  My personal point of view (not shared by all, accepted) is that capable self-defense is both a right and a responsiblity.  If the threat of a pandemic wakes someone up to the already ever-present need for self and home defense, I'm glad to hear it.  If it motivates someone to become a firearms owner who otherwise would have found an excuse not to, I'm glad of that too, provided they take the next step to become safe and proficient with their new gun.  Shooting can be a fun activity for the entire family (age appropriate, of course) and we all need a break from serious things occasionally - Why not kill two birds with one stone?  Fun, plus an investment in one's safety.  Kind of like swimming -  a recreation and also potentially a life-saving skill.

As far as it taking a lot of time to use a firearm safety - I took two complete novices, who never even saw a gun up close, and taught them the basics of safe handling in 2 hours.  They then proceeded to handle those firearms safely and effectively at the local range for the next two hours with no safety violations.  With a bit more practice, and a 1 day class (I'm thinking the NRA basic pistol class) I would feel no qualms about their ability to safely and effectively wield a handgun for self-defense.  My wife went from never having handled a long-gun, to busting her first clay pigeon in under 2 hours with some training from an experienced skeet shooter.  Don't underestimate the ability of a motivated student.  I don't think of this time as wasted, I see it as being fun and an investment.

Hi all. My husband and I live in a very "blue" state and were discouraged on several occations by our local police dept. from getting guns. However, when we became empty nesters we decided to persue it.  The first thing we did was to take the the beginner handgun course found on the NRA website. We did it in one day. Then we went back to the police dept. to do the paper work and the officer gave us a look again when we asked for the handgun purchase forms so I pulled out the NRA certificate of course completion and then the P.O. had a total change of manor. We filed the papers with him in Oct. '05 and got our permits Jan. '06. They came 6 weeks later than he had told us to expect them and they were wrongly back dated so that we only had 3 weeks to make our purchase; you're supposed to have 3 months.  It was ok with us because we were happy we could finally go "shopping".

I'm an almost 50 yr old, 5' tall woman and a shotgun would definately not be a good choice for me.  Tried it once and had a sore shoulder for a week! I will leave that one to my husband. I got a reuger ( I can almost hear all the groans out there from what I read on this forum) but I have a very small hand and it was comfortable for me and just under $200 new. Also, I can practice at the range for a pretty long time using the .22's and then use the stingers for more stop power if ever needed in a real life situation. Since I'm really enjoying this new "hobbie" with my hubbie (it gets us off the couch and out of the house) , not to mention very empowering. We have filed new paperwork and when it comes in (they say 10 days+/-) my husband is buying me my 2nd gun, a Browning! Our instructor met us at the gun store and helped us through our purchase and through the whole process.  I hope this info is helpful to those who are thinking about going this route. I never thought I would but am glad we did.

BTW people.....buy more canned pasta and rice,

do not eat your dogs!!!

Prepare Relentlessly. :>}

Libby your posts really crack me up. Thanx for the laughs :>}