Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Short on Tamiflu? |
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northern_mamma
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Posted: February 25 2006 at 1:12pm |
This may seem distasteful (excuse the pun) but is recommended by an MD as a potential strategy to make a little Tamiflu go a long way. He is Dr. Grattan Woodson, MD FACP and his 34-page paper called Preparing for the Coming Influenza Pandemic is here: http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/files/ComingPandemic.pdf Essentially, he outlines a "Tamiflu Re-Administration Strategy" (okay, let's cut to the chase: it's essentially about drinking your own pee.) Apparently the Tamiful is not broken down when excreted and he claims you can use two pills to get an equivalent dose of ten by diluting, PH balancing, sweetening and drinking it. He outlines the following method for physicians: Tamiflu Re-Administration Strategy: Tamiflu is excreted unchanged almost entirely in the urine. If Tamiflu supplies are limited as they most certainly will be, consider giving the patient two Tamiflu tablets at the same time, collect the patient’s urine and re-administer it to the patient via naso-gastric (NG) tube or orally. If managed carefully, this approach means that you can completely treat a patient with only 2 Tamiflu tablets. To replace fluids using this method, dilute the urine to a specific gravity (SG) of 1.010 with plain water to reduce the electrolyte concentration and raise the pH of the urine to 7.4 by addition crushed CaCo3 (Tums) tablets to the solution and add sugar for glucose calories. Cool and flavor with citrus to improve palatability and administer orally or by NG tube. Consider using homemade NG tubes by adapting any source of small gage plastic tubing. Urine should be administered as a cool beverage and as fresh as possible to reduce odor and taste from urea breakdown. Urine is non-toxic. Most of the toxic things are metabolized by the liver and excreted in the bile. Don’t worry about urea, it is readily reabsorbed by the body and excreted back into the urine over and over again. It is non-toxic and will all come out once the urine is no longer being re-administered to the patient." NM: So if Tamiful is, in fact, found to be effective against avian virus AND we end up short (I purchased mine before I read about ten day administration versus five) it's certainly something to keep in mind. I don't know anyone who would rather die than drink urine. As I understand, urine therapy is practiced extensively in Thailand in China, so who knows--maybe this could help contribute to stretching limited resources. Just presenting it--not necessarily endorsing it.
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NM, While I grasped onto this like the proverbial life preserver when it first came out Dr Woodson has since retracted the recommendation. Unless he has completed his further research and is once again recommending it I wouldn't count on it working. When I found out that he had retracted the recommendation I bought a gross of Probenicid. While it doesn't stretch Tamiflu to the extent of re-administration, it does stretch it. BTW: when this first came out I was shocked at the number of people who said "Thanks, but no thanks. I would rather die." SZ |
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northern_mamma
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 53 |
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Hi, SZ and thanks for the update; very helpful. Like I said, I wasn't necessarily promoting it, but you just never know. Much of Dr Woodson's paper made sense, so I'm trying to separate the wheat from the chaf. And this virus has changed the landscape in so many ways. Would you mind letting me know--either here on the board or privately via message--where he stated his retraction and/or what he said? I'd really like to follow up. Also, for the rest of us who are relatively new here, I'm posting the link where Probenicid was first discussed on this board: http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1497&KW= probenicid I'd never heard of this so find it very helpful. Have since googled and learned more. Thanks very much. NM |
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NM, I had the original monograph Dr Woodson released, as an original procurer I also got an e-mail notification of his updated version, downloaded and printed it out, but didn't really read it as it wasn't readily apparent that it had changed much. Well, the Tamiflu re-administration came up on this board in the early days and I went to post Dr Woodson's information, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. Imagine my surprise that it wasn't in the 2nd addition. Hey, I'm not proud, I will admit that this was slated for me and hubby should the need arise, saving the bulk of Tamiflu for my 20 somethings who would need it the most. Although I couldn't really find much information and my computer is dead so I have none of my book marks to post for you (sorry) maybe if you google "Tamiflu re-administration" you could find something on the various blogs and such. It is something that we need to keep our eye on though. Dr Woodson was supposed to be looking into it further. Something about the chemical changes from one form to another and it's the other that was said to be of no value as an anti-viral. But this stuff is SO far above my head and without my bookmarks to refer to I am floundering here trying to pull it from my cob-web encrusted brain cells. Again, I apologize. Debi |
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lois
advanced Member Joined: February 16 2006 Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Is there anywhere to order reliable tamiflu still? I need additional doses for daughter's fiance and don't know where to get them. Anyway, live in U.S. and would appreciate a p.m. Thanks.
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lois
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Hi lois, Not that I know of. Your only hope IMO for 'real' Tamiflu is finding a sympathetic doctor.
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crystal
Valued Member Joined: February 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Lois - you can still order it over the internet - google tamiflu- but it is
very expensive. I got some and it came in a Roche box - hopefully it's the real thing! |
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peace
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Frisky
Valued Member Joined: March 14 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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Hi northern mama. I did a post at another area on this web site explaining why drinking urine does not work. Basically tamiflu is oseltamivir phosphate which is readily absorbed from the intestines.The form excreted in the urine is oseltamivir carboxylate. When this form of the drug is taken by mouth it is poorly absorbed from the intestines. So it does not work and that is why Dr Woodson retracted this suggestion. ER Doc
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It is better to give than to receive.
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