Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Navy may punish aircraft carrier Captain |
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Pixie
Admin Group Joined: June 05 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19668 |
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Posted: April 01 2020 at 2:21pm |
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Pixie
Admin Group Joined: June 05 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19668 |
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sacked commander USS Roosevelt |
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JellyMama
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 25 2020 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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As they should. National security was exposed. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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He didn't just send it up the chain of command, he sent it to a wide array of people. He got what he deserved and his career is over as a result of his actions. |
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Tabitha111
Adviser Group Joined: January 11 2020 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 11640 |
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Loose Lips Sink Ships |
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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius |
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FluMom
Adviser Group Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: February 03 2020 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 14695 |
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I agree with you Tabitha111. He should have gone up the chain of command and kept his mouth shut to the public. A danger to our country! |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29680 |
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I'm surprised that you all think he did the wrong thing. His actions brought to light a rapidly deteriorating situation that was endangering the lives of his crew. You might think differently if you had a son or daughter on board. Perhaps he felt he had to leak the situation because his direct chain of command were more concerned with looking invincible than they were about the welfare of the individuals on board. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Maybe he should have stayed within the chain of command, maybe he should not have....but it did expose a fault within the navy's handling of this situation that could well lead to unnecessary deaths amongst the serving personnel. Hard choice: Protect the reputation of the military or protect the people in the military. It seemed the Captain choose the latter of the two, which in my personal opinion was the morally correct thing to do. |
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95877 |
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DJ-I do not know why the captain did get the message out to a wider range of people-did he expect top military not to react if he did not act that way ? Was he willing to pay the price for that ? The basic idea-to switch to damage-control-to save the military-in my opinion is correct. We has an outbreak on a Dutch submarine-recently. Military organizations are vulnarable for spread of illness. My impression is that many countries want to keep the infection rate in their military top-secret for good reasons. A lot of armies are not able to fight major (conventional) wars-increasing the risks for nuclear wars. [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/china-ramps-south-china-sea-war-drills-pandemic-swallows-west[/url] |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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I think you hit the nail on the head. It exposed the shortcomings of the chain of command. Prayers for our combined military services. This is what they have to contend with and risk themselves to censure to take care of the enlisted under their command. |
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EdwinSm,
Moderator Joined: April 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 24065 |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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This is a tough one. He did the right thing morally and he cared for his men - which is his #1 duty as Captain. He did not 'officially' do the correct thing by his country though. The 'powers that be' HAD to punish that. They solved this problem quite well, he was relieved of command but not of his commission or rank - perfect answer! |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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I don't think anyone is doubting he cared about the welfare of his crew. The curious thing is that he felt the need to write a letter to 20 or 30 people over a unsecure email account relating the operational status of a aircraft carrier and calling for it to basically be pulled off line without talking to his direct superior, the rear admiral in charge of the task force, who happened to be on the same aircraft carrier as the captain. That's showing poor judgement in the middle of a crisis and that is why he was relieved of command. And while he may have retained his rank, it's almost certain he will never command a ship again.
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kaye kaye
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 27 2020 Location: ohio Status: Offline Points: 3290 |
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I don't work for government, but even at my job if management ran outside the lines they would be fired . He is lucky. |
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keep the joy
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29680 |
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This story reminds me of the recent spate of news stories where medical workers have been threatened with immediate dismissal if they wear protective gear without authorization. The authorities in all these stories are treating their staff as disposable, as if they have so many of them, they can afford to dismiss people for little or no reason. This kind of authoritarian attitude will come back to bite them. One day they'll dismiss a nurse or a doctor only to find there are no more in the queue waiting to fill their gap. Can any country right now, in the middle of such an unprecedented global disaster really afford to be publically humiliating and firing good men and women over such things? I don't think so. If Trump is so determined to go to war - which it appears he is - then he might just need this Captain afterall. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Albert
Admin Joined: April 24 2006 Status: Offline Points: 47746 |
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Here is my FB post on that crap: I swear I hate Trump at times lol. Firing generals in the past, attacking military whistleblowers who call him out, and many military personnel over the last few years who have spent their lives dedicated to the USA. Simply, Trump is an F'ing asshole. I will support him as we have no choice, but just a pure asshole, excuse my language. Flumom can throw flowers at Trump's feet all she wants. This is BS. Three weeks ago from Trump: It's all just a media hoax, the flu is worse, and now the U.S. is logging in 2,000 deaths a day, and with a massive death toll expected. And a highly decorated naval captain reaches out and he's fired? This has got to be a joke. Screw you Trump.
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FluMom
Adviser Group Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: February 03 2020 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 14695 |
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You are welcome to your opinion. I would have done the same thing. He put his ship and our country in jeopardy he needed to be fired. This Captain put this out to the public...against Chain of Command pure and simple a court marshal offence. He is lucky just to be fired from his position only. |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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It wasn't the Captains first bad call. The first was allowing his crew shore leave while in Da Nang in early March, which lead to his crew being infected. New cases of the coronavirus are being discovered in Vietnam, in the same port as where 6,500 sailors and Marines on the USS Theodore Roosevelt are docked. The USS Theodore Roosevelt left Coronado on Jan. 17, 2020, for a seven-month deployment to the Indo-Pacific. Now, seven weeks later, she is docked in Da Nang, Vietnam. Vietnamese media reported that two British tourists who tested positive for coronavirus were intercepted and quarantined in Da Nang. It's the same city that now hosts the USS Theodore Roosevelt. "The British, being tourists, most likely went to all the same places that sailors and Marines on liberty would probably want to go," Furman said. According to the USS Theodore Roosevelt Public Affairs, Sailors were scheduled to participate in cultural and professional exchanges, community service projects, sports competitions, and receptions during their port visit. It is unclear if any of the 6,500 sailors and Marines came into contact with the infected individuals in Da Nang. I guess that question has been answered. Why he would allow shore leave in Vietnam risking infection is questionable, US commanders is SK and Italy had already locked down their bases as had other military bases and ships. I guess they will investigate all actions relating to this event. |
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KiwiMum
Chief Moderator Joined: May 29 2013 Status: Offline Points: 29680 |
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Can you imagine Trump's reaction to the Captain if, in January, he refused to allow his crew shore leave? Remember until very recently Trump said the coronavirus was a great big hoax. Either way that captain couldn't win. And Albert's right, Trump is a dickhead. |
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Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95877 |
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DJ-The picture I am getting is Covid19 being widespread in US (and other) military-from the ZH article; Still, a more detailed picture is painted by the information given to troops than that given the public. The Army’s acting regional health commander for Europe, Col. Pippen, held a virtual town hall with other medical officers to answer questions about COVID-19 and the Army’s response. Soldiers and their spouses emailed in. The answers they were given suggest the Army’s health system is stressed, even at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, the largest military hospital in Europe. - Freeman and the other Army health officials said the hospital was going to be focused on urgent care, and all other services would have to be online. |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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FluMom
Adviser Group Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: February 03 2020 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 14695 |
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Kiwi Trump NEVER said the Virus was a Hoax, he was talking about the Dems being the Hoax Not the Virus. President Donald Trump told his supporters at a South Carolina that Democrats were spreading misinformation about the coronavirus, and called it "their new hoax." |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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Here are Trump’s exact words on the topic at the South Carolina rally:
In context, Trump did not say in the passage above that the virus itself was a hoax. He instead said that Democrats’ criticism of his administration’s response to it was a hoax. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/ |
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FluMom
Adviser Group Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: February 03 2020 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 14695 |
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In context, Trump did not say in the passage above that the virus itself was a hoax. He instead said that Democrats’ criticism of his administration’s response to it was a hoax. This was from snopes? |
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AI
Adviser Group Joined: January 21 2020 Status: Offline Points: 8850 |
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Yes. I also posted the link to it on that comment. |
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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I think it is clear that President Trump was very duplicitous in discussing the COVID-19 outbreak from the beginning. He has a tendency to call things "hoaxes," i.e. climate change is just a Chinese hoax. I think his base clearly took his words to mean that the disease itself was a hoax, that is how I took it. |
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CRS, DrPH
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pheasant
Admin Group Joined: May 20 2006 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 9851 |
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Wow...just wow, chuck are you for real??.......clip, cut, and paste videos? and Albert...wtf?.....Foul laced rants?? Is this what AFT has devolved into? I'm not even going to waste the brain power to debunk those ridiculous posts. |
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The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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WitchMisspelled
Adviser Group Joined: January 20 2020 Status: Offline Points: 17170 |
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And the free-for-all begins... |
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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'And now the free-for-all gets kicked into the politics forum! |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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Pixie
Admin Group Joined: June 05 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19668 |
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https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-secretary-blasts-fired-aircraft-carrier-captain Full transcript bottom of article |
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Taxman100
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 27 2013 Location: Richland Wa Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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This commander knew that his ship was a floating tragedy waiting to happen. He asked for help and got normal numbskull answers, so he looked after his ship and crew by going public. Just following orders and having crew members injured or killed for no reason is just more BS from this administration. Glad we have commander's that understand where leadership comes from, Trump is a fraud. Then some pencil pusher Navy Secretary in the pentagon called him stupid? Real professional navy secretary you have there Trump. |
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Together we succeed
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Taxman100
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 27 2013 Location: Richland Wa Status: Offline Points: 295 |
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To bad we didn't listen to our National Security people when it would have really saved lives, like when this pandemic was brewing. Trump was too busy playing politics to read and comprehend a security briefing. Looks like Trump is going to take us all down with his 7th bankruptcy, we all feel like we are in Trump university now. |
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Together we succeed
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Pixie
Admin Group Joined: June 05 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 19668 |
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