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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic

Govt. Shutdown

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Poll Question: Who is in favor of govt shutdown to defund Obamacare?
Vote Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
17 [30.91%]
38 [69.09%]

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Elver View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 01 2013 at 7:56pm
Do you think Obama should converse with the Republicans?
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Turboguy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 10:21pm
I think Obama needs to do the right thing here. Either we are all on board or we are not.

This crap with exemptions and special privileges for special people is patently against the Fourteenth Amendment.

I find it astounding that they thought it'd be okay to say that everyone else falls under 0bamacare except congress, senate, and their aids and family.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2013 at 10:27pm
Turboguy, you are right congress and aids are exempt...gee why? Obama is the hard line here. He should talk and negotiate but the press is only publishing that the Repubs are at fault so people believe the press.

This country is going down the tubes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Is this a Joke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 12:08pm
Are you guys brainwashed WTF

Allowing extremists to hold the entire country hostage over something that is already passed and the law of the Land, millions of taxpayer dollars spent in the courts and upheld by the Supreme Court, as well as a presidential election and you all still don't get it

You gotta be kidding me

What a Joke, looks like the Republican Party is turning itself into a party of dictators
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To Is This A Joke.
I know you are going to feel very embarrassed, but you blasted off your trumpet in the wrong chamber. This place is avian flu talk, where individuals may terrify each other about getting deathly ill and dying in a very horrifying way. It is a fun hobby that each one of us have. You know, using the power of suggestion to get the old heart on rapid pump and survival mode.
 
If you want to express your outrage about the governmental sewer system, you must go to Washington. That is where you may blast your horn about the dictators, and other such names.Of course if you want to exchange scarry tales about plagues, bugs, needles and vomit, this is the place to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 1:49pm
i find it all a bit hard to get my head around ,living in a country with free health care for ALL, i just dont

understand how people could be against helping their  own, then expect those same people to fight for

 their  country in times of need ......
12 Monkeys...............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 4:50pm
Our healthcare isn't FREE!  The people who pay for healthcare pay outrageous prices to cover not only themselves, but everyone who doesn't pay in!  The layarounds expect to get free housing, free food, and free healthcare.
 
I hope our government stays shut down because the democrats don't ever want to negoatiate anything with the republicans.  These democrats passed this outrageous healthcare law that over half the country doesn't want.  (The working half!)  This was a bipartisan bill that passed by a narrow margin.  Congress wasn't given a chance to read it let alone debate it or even debate parts of it.  Nancy Pelosi said that we have to pass the bill to find out what is in it.  It was the democrats who were extremists in not allowing anybody time to read this before passing it.  How could all those Democrats vote on anything they didn't even try to understand?
 
This is no way to run a government.  And now the democrats don't understand why the republicans are taking such a hard stance?  The republicans stand firm now or we're all screwed.
 
In fact over 90% of the IRS has been furloughed.  That's a good thing!
 
I hope that we don't raise our debt ceiling and that our credit is downgraded causing the stock market to fall.  Will the democrats negotiate then?  Perhaps that will wipe the silly little smirks off of their faces.
 
I think we should send all these layarounds to Australia and you can give them FREE healthcare!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 6:00pm
I think there is a big crash coming. The only question is when. Most of our government works like a professional wrestling company. Just play acting. They want the crash to happen after they have medicine in their control and after they have our guns. It seems the part of the government not belonging to the wrestling company is willing to have the crash come off sooner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOPPER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 6:55pm
The idea that Obamacare wou make health care affordable is laughable. They didn't reform or pass legislation relating to the COSTS that make health care and subsequently health insurance expensive. When you still pay 50 dollars for an aspirin in a hospital that actually cost 50 cents is that health care reform?
 
And congress exempts themselves LOL. Would you expect any less in a plutocracy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by Is this a Joke Is this a Joke wrote:

Are you guys brainwashed WTF

Allowing extremists to hold the entire country hostage over something that is already passed and the law of the Land, millions of taxpayer dollars spent in the courts and upheld by the Supreme Court, as well as a presidential election and you all still don't get it

You gotta be kidding me

What a Joke, looks like the Republican Party is turning itself into a party of dictators


First and foremost: Take a breath Francis.

Secondly, the only brainwashed person here is you.

It's cute that you're screaming "Extremist" when last time I checked a solid, and I mean SOLID 70% of Americans are against 0bamacare, and as sorry as I am to say this, princess, this crap isn't going to make anything cheaper on anyone and is patently UnConstitutional. (Look up equal protection under the law if you don't believe me.) Seems that the only extremist here is you.

Literally Elver and I agree on just about nothing, except this.

The House is doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. There is a reason that there is a House and a Senate and that specifically to prevent unbelievably bad legislation from becoming law, i.e. 0bamacare.

If you're so sure this is dictatorship, ask yourself why it is that YOUR party is basically treating themselves as bourgeois by passing laws that they do not have to abide by? Isn't that the very definition of dictatorship?

So drink your koolaid, I hope it's grape flavor.

Since you're obviously ignorant of what 0bamacare is going to do, why don't you figure out why companies AKA employers are looking for any way possible to avoid dealing with it?

Please explain how these employers cutting all work hours to 28 hours a week while forcing the people to buy their own health insurance that most of them ALREADY can't afford is going to be an economic "Good Thing."

And lastly, please explain how shutting a teensy part of the government down is akin to holding the country hostage. Sure, I got furloughed, but when this is all said and done I'll get back pay for all the days I should have worked. Also the mail and pretty much every other function of government is still up and running. Your welfare check is going to be in the mail on the 30th.

You are the brainwashed one here.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Turboguy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

i find it all a bit hard to get my head around ,living in a country with free health care for ALL, i just dont

understand how people could be against helping their  own, then expect those same people to fight for

 their  country in times of need ......


First off, military people in the U.S. Have free health insurance. It's called Tricare.

Secondly, 0bamacare is NOT free healthcare. In fact this is going to dramatically increase healthcare costs on the individual. Basically the law says that everyone has to buy something from a company just to breathe.

Imagine what you'd say if I was the emperor of Australia and my first decree was that you had to buy my pubic hair for $2000 a year or you're going to jail. That's basically how the law works.

Lastly, our healthcare system is far superior to even yours. Ever wonder why the very wealthy from around the world rush here when they're very sick? Sure, socialized medicine is great for emergency stuff, but when it comes to long term care situations, it quite honestly sucks. You and your currently operable cancer sit behind me and my ingrown toenail in line. When it's your turn, your cancer isn't operable anymore.

Another thing is like a few years ago I broke my right leg, a tibia, fibula, broke the malleolis off my tibia and dislocated my ankle. The doctors said I'd never run again and would forever walk with a limp. I shopped around and went to a sports medicine provider, Tria Orthopedics, where I had my surgery and physical therapy. They're literally the best in the country and our major sports teams use them exclusively. My physical therapy partner was a professional baseball player who gave me crap that I'd been to durkhadurkhastan eight times and never got hurt, then wrestling around with my brother, break my leg.

I ran three marathons in 2012 and one and a half this year. I ran my Air Force fitness test mile and a half in ten minutes, ten seconds and screwed around knowing that I could have gone a lot faster. My leg is pretty much 99% and if you saw me walking you'd never know. I was able to shop around and then go to the best in my country. Can you say you have the same opportunities?

There is a reason free market capitalism works. You just have to let it.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2013 at 9:35pm
Turbo,
 
You mean we actually agree on something?  FINALLY!
 
I tried to check out the Colorado State Exchange website and got an error message so I tried to write both senators from our state.  One of these pukes even had his website down, citing "government shutdown".  Apparently, this democrat doesn't even feel like accepting e-mail.  The democrats feel that because they control the Senate and their president is a democrate that they don't have to negotiate anything because the "king Obama" will simply decree it the way he always does.
 
I meant what I said above about not wanting the debt ceiling lifted so that our credit is downgraded.  I don't give a crap anymore.  If we don't collapse now, it will be far worse later on anyway.  I've reached the apathetic stage because we're all doomed in this economy anyway, it's only a question of when.  Nobody in Washington wants to risk losing votes by cutting spending programs so our problems will never get fixed or pushed farther out.
 
Alan Greenspan once worked for the Boston Federal Reserve.  He worked on developing a plan on how to get "new" money into the hands of the people after a collapse.  His plan to give out "new" money is based on how much someone paid into social security.  It's not perfect, but it is the best there is.  Also, our Treasury mints coins, not the Federal Reserve.  The best plan I can come up with is to diversify between stock, cash, and metals.  However, it is prohibitively expensive to mint new coins so we're saving ours.  In fact, we break bills every chance we get just to get more coins.  Post collapse the paper dollar may be worthless, but 4 quarters will still have value.
 
The Federal Reserve and the Bank of England (BOE) wrote a joint paper titled "Resolving Globally Active, Systemically Important, Financial Institutions" dated December 10th, 2012.  You can search for this and read it.  "The goal is to produce resolution strategies that could be implemented for the failure of one or more of the largest financial institutions".  "A resolution strategy for a failed or failing G-SIFI should assign losses to shareholders and unsecured creditors"  An unsecured creditor is the depositor!  "In all likelihood, shareholders would lose all value and unsecured creditors should thus expect that their claims would be written down to reflect any
losses that shareholders did not cover."  FDIC couldn't cope with a banking collapse.
 
Basically, the depositors would lose all of their savings and get worthless stock certificates in the bankrupt bank.  It could take years before any of this stock would be worth anything if ever.
 
If your money is in a bank, it is at grave risk.  If Helicopter Ben keeps printing, then our money will keep losing value anyway. 
 
Buy anything and everything you think you're going to need for some period of time such as shoes, clothing, new appliances, and some food.  It's a sad state of affairs to think that we'll have to live like this until SHTF, but it's the only smart thing to do.  If nothing else, you'll save money in the long run by buying items now before hyperinflation hits.  Later on, when our grocery bills are double or triple what they are now you won't have the money to buy shoes or socks.
 
Obamacare will make everybody poor.  This will speed up the economic collapse.  Save your coins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2013 at 1:19pm

Quickly - before it bankrupts Massachusetts...

 LOLLOLLOL


                                   


                                                                  
"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2013 at 2:15pm
we pay for our health system through our Taxes, or Medicare Levy,% of how much you earn just to clear

 up that our's is not "free" service ,our problem here is that some of the Med's for cancer cost thousands of

$ a shot that sucks the kitty dry,thats where the cost blow out,companies charging lots  for Meds that are

 cheap to manafacture so they make billions  of profit from suffering
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jody05/005 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2013 at 3:46pm
Carbon20    "and the meek shall inherit the earth "   WHATS LEFT OF IT !!!!   will we want it ???
HOPE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Is This A Joke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2013 at 4:34pm
Elver

As usual everything you said is exactly the opposite of the real world

Sounds more like you just want the country destroyed so you can justify you pathetic existence and get some use of your preps

Why don't you just get out of there if you can't handle living in a country with different views rather than just making the crap up to appease your conscious   You seem to be ok with thousands of people being hurt over a political position that has lost Multiple times and just can't move on

It's people like you that will cost the repuican party coming up, the country k ows what's going on, it's not hard to see this is nothing more than stunt from a marginal group who wish to be dictators and screw everyone rlse and there views

What happens next time you don't have the votes in the congress, senate, executive branch
A car bomb -- armed assault

What a joke
And you don't even get it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2013 at 5:28pm
This article gives insight into the Republican mindset. Scary and pathetic.  



Kristol: ‘Not the end of the world’ if shutdown halts food benefits
Jane C. Timm, @janestreet
8:29 AM on 10/02/2013
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The Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol thinks America needs to calm down about the shutdown.
“I think there’s a little bit too much hysteria,” Kristol said on Wednesday’s Morning Joe. “We’re going to have to have a negotiation.”
But The Huffington Post’s Sam Stein challenged him that real people are feeling the effects of a shutdown.
“Maybe in your world it’s not the end of the world,” Stein fired back. “Eighty-five thousand people are losing nutritional assistance in Arkansas, that’s not inside the Beltway, that’s Arkansas. Thirteen Head Start programs are closing in Connecticut.”
It’s more than that: 23 Head Start programs in 11 states have sent low-income preschool children back home, because they lack the funding to stay open; 850,000 federal employees were placed on immediate, unpaid leave; and a number of veteran’s services were hit by the shutdown, too.
“For these people who are affected by these cuts, it is sort of comparable to the end of the world. I understand it’s great to wait it out and to negotiate from a better platform with more power and the debt ceiling and all that,” Stein continued. “But those two weeks while you wait it out are consequential for a whole number of people, not just in the agencies that the Republicans want funded. I think we tend to lose that kind of perspective in these kinds of conversations.”
Republicans have moved to fund, piecemeal, a handful of specific agencies. Three such bills were defeated in the House of Representatives on Tuesday by Democrats, but the Senate and the president have both promised to kill the bills if they reached them, saying the complete government needed to be funded, not just Republicans’ favorites.
“Look, I think if there are genuine human emergencies the Republican House should move to fund those relevant programs,” Kristol said looking skeptical. “But a one or two week shutdown is not going to be the end of the world and if you can’t go into the Smithsonian—” he began.
“Unless you’re on nutritional assistance,” Stein countered.
“It’s not going to be the end of the world, honestly, even if you’re on nutritional assistance from the federal government. The state of Arkansas can help out, localities can help out, churches can help out, I believe no one is going to starve in Arkansas because of the shutdown,” Kristol concluded.
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Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:

This article gives insight into the Republican mindset. Scary and pathetic.  



Kristol: ‘Not the end of the world’ if shutdown halts food benefits
Jane C. Timm, @janestreet
8:29 AM on 10/02/2013
Twitter166
Facebook7K+
133
 
The Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol thinks America needs to calm down about the shutdown.
“I think there’s a little bit too much hysteria,” Kristol said on Wednesday’s Morning Joe. “We’re going to have to have a negotiation.”
But The Huffington Post’s Sam Stein challenged him that real people are feeling the effects of a shutdown.
“Maybe in your world it’s not the end of the world,” Stein fired back. “Eighty-five thousand people are losing nutritional assistance in Arkansas, that’s not inside the Beltway, that’s Arkansas. Thirteen Head Start programs are closing in Connecticut.”
It’s more than that: 23 Head Start programs in 11 states have sent low-income preschool children back home, because they lack the funding to stay open; 850,000 federal employees were placed on immediate, unpaid leave; and a number of veteran’s services were hit by the shutdown, too.
“For these people who are affected by these cuts, it is sort of comparable to the end of the world. I understand it’s great to wait it out and to negotiate from a better platform with more power and the debt ceiling and all that,” Stein continued. “But those two weeks while you wait it out are consequential for a whole number of people, not just in the agencies that the Republicans want funded. I think we tend to lose that kind of perspective in these kinds of conversations.”
Republicans have moved to fund, piecemeal, a handful of specific agencies. Three such bills were defeated in the House of Representatives on Tuesday by Democrats, but the Senate and the president have both promised to kill the bills if they reached them, saying the complete government needed to be funded, not just Republicans’ favorites.
“Look, I think if there are genuine human emergencies the Republican House should move to fund those relevant programs,” Kristol said looking skeptical. “But a one or two week shutdown is not going to be the end of the world and if you can’t go into the Smithsonian—” he began.
“Unless you’re on nutritional assistance,” Stein countered.
“It’s not going to be the end of the world, honestly, even if you’re on nutritional assistance from the federal government. The state of Arkansas can help out, localities can help out, churches can help out, I believe no one is going to starve in Arkansas because of the shutdown,” Kristol concluded.
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You can squeal Republicans all you want, but it's the head coach who always takes the heat, not the offensive or defensive coordinator.

Zer0 is taking the brunt of this deal, no matter what your sweet liberal media might want to tell you.

They're the same people that said Zer0 was a genius throughout the Syria fiasco, when in reality he was made to look like an abject fool and an amateur on the international stage.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Whoa - - being retired military let me tell ya how it worked. The recruiters show up an say Duty, Honor and Country so you should sign up. However, you will only be paid about 2/3s of what you could make as a civilian BUT you will get free medical for life if you live to retire. We (the recruiters) promise on the good faith of the Government. So here we go - - I lived through Vietnam and Desert Storm and all in between. Now I have Tri Care for life. Here is the catch - - Tri Care pays the Doctors squat so the Doctors are reluctant to accept Tri Care patients. It's hard to find a good Doctor BUT I got my free medical - - Just like I was promised! ! !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2013 at 9:37pm
Do you think Obama should converse with the Republicans?
 
 
Yes, but with the understanding that the mandated part of the law needs to be removed. It is unfair, unconstitutional, and will not fund Obamacare as many may think. Why won't it though? Because the majority doesn't believes in it, and of those that don't, they will find a way to not comply with this part of the law. Besides when it comes to this issue, the feds forcing people to participate in this program is very non-American.
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