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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic.

Health Care Workers Discussion Area

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johngardner1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 25 2007 at 7:16pm
    This room is for health care workers on the chat board to discuss and answer questions from others.
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Silke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 4:43am
Thank you, John.
 

As a former Infection Control Nurse, I will be happy to participate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reality check Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 6:33am
As a working C.D. investigator, I too would be happy to provide imput to this thread...thanks John
"tell med the grasshoppers won"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 6:38am
Not bad, John. 
 
You may need to bump this each week.
 
 
 
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johngardner1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johngardner1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 7:52am
    Wow, didn't expect such a good response. What is a C.D. Investigator? As you all know, I am a CNA.

Last week I approached one of my bosses about a pandemic plan, and she didn't even know what a pandemic plan is. If I have time today I'm going to file a suggestion.
I am not a prophet
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n
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 7:36pm
Same experience here, John. I approached my supervisor about a pandemic contingency plan, partly because some of my patients had raised the issue, only to be met with a blank stare, so I e-mailed the company directly. They contacted her after about a month and she relayed the message, which was that in the event of a flu pandemic they would defer to the CDC and the local health authority. I tried to explain by that time it would be too late to make any meaningful preparations such as organizing generators/fuel and stocking up on supplies, but I got the blank stare again. When I mentioned it to an administrative staff member, her reply was, "when has bird flu ever caused us any problems before?". Very scary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2007 at 10:02pm
To the people on this board. I am a Board Certified Family Practioner and I will be glad to help,if and when I can.But I can not see into the future and I know that the CDC and most governments in the world are more worried about the panic from a pandemic killer flu than they are of a killer flu. "Bird Flu" or any other kind.--Just for starters,I know that all first respondes in my area(fire department,Emt's ect) have all been briefed and taught about the Bird Flu a few months ago. But I also know that no physician in my area has had any briefing or any warning of it. I have friends in both the fire department and the EMS services that have told me these things. Why have the more advanced trained people who are also first responders in the since of seeing these people in our offices first,not been warned,educated,or briefed?Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2007 at 9:09am
"I know that the CDC and most governments in the world are more worried about the panic from a pandemic killer flu than they are of a killer flu".

   I totally agree. I think most, if not all of the people on this forum know that when you start to look deeper into the subject of avian flu and the history of it's interaction with mankind, you begin to realise just how bad a major pandemic could be. I'm sure we've all been through the panic stage already - I know I have. Translating the situation they faced in 1918 to today, with our increased reliance on a very delicate infrastructure, vastly increased mobility by virtue of air travel, and significantly larger population, the scenarios are downright terrifying. Compound that with widespread shortages of just about everything we've come to take for granted maybe within weeks, and you have the potential for social disruption on a scale unknown to most of us that haven't lived through wartime. I've seen worse case scenarios mentioning BF death rates of 1 in 20. That gives us a 1 in 19 chance of surviving - a hell of a lot better than even. But I wonder how many more would die not from the flu, but from the disruption caused by our reaction to the flu? I think the authorities are having to walk a fine line between creating all out panic or complete apathy. Exactly how to convey to people how bad it might be without causing panic buying and unwarranted social distancing is extremely tricky. Whether their approach is right remains to be seen, I guess. I don't envy them though.
   I was going to ask one of our doctors at work about his feelings on the subject. It'll be interesting to find out how well he's been briefed. When myself and a coworker first started to get up to speed on BF, she asked a neighbor (who is a fire fighter in the area) if he knew about it. This was nearly six months ago, and he said that he and his colleagues already knew all about it, and had plenty of stocks laid in. They also had plans to move their families to a rural firehouse when they got word. I have a friend who is a city paramedic now. I'll get in touch and find out what I can from him about how well they've been prepped.
   
    
    
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reality check Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2007 at 9:54am
fit testing with a variety of n95 masks...Ive been done twice.. without this test and associated training...well you may have the n95 but the fit may be a problem
"tell med the grasshoppers won"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2007 at 4:57pm
jacksdad,so you are seeing basically the same thing in your area that I have seen in mine. Our fire department members were even given hand outs and they were told to keep them secret. The EMS people were told that when and if a Bird Flu case was confirmed in a given home,they were to ignore any calls for help from that home and not even stop any more. The fire department personnel were told the same thing and what makes this so strange to me is that I live in a small town and the fire department personnel are all unpaid volunteers. Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2007 at 1:25pm
That makes for a scary scenario. I totally understand the thinking behind it, but it still feels a little like the "unclean" leper colonies of old. I've worked in EMS and I should imagine it would be hard for people who have chosen a career that involves coming to the aid of others to ignore cries for help. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't have a number of Fire/EMS personnel on the forum. Anybody working in those fields want to chip in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reality check Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2007 at 8:23am
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

jacksdad,so you are seeing basically the same thing in your area that I have seen in mine. Our fire department members were even given hand outs and they were told to keep them secret. The EMS people were told that when and if a Bird Flu case was confirmed in a given home,they were to ignore any calls for help from that home and not even stop any more. The fire department personnel were told the same thing and what makes this so strange to me is that I live in a small town and the fire department personnel are all unpaid volunteers. Johnray1

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2007 at 3:12pm
reality check.Everything that I have put on this board is true. I am sorry that you can not except it.Now as to how this thing really shakes out remains to be seen.If you do not want to believe that I am a Doctor,that is O.K. That is your business. When I have tried to talk to other doctors about "Bird Flu" they either look at me with a blank stare or laugh at me.As far as what I told you about how the EMS and the Fire Department are told to react and how they actually react,also remains to be seen. But this is all true and if you choose not to believe me,then you need a reality check.---If you were told that if you enter a certain house to pick up a patient,but if you went into that house,it was likely that you would also get the disease and die and that doctors and nurses at the hospital were already dying from it and you would also carry this disease home to your family and they would die,what you do?Johnray1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2007 at 3:20pm
reality check,the best that we can all hope for is that this flu never gets here,or if it does get here,that it has mutated into a form that is no worse than the regular flu that we see every year.Another thing ,every doctor who has had mass trauma training are trained to save the people that you think might live,you are taught to not waste time on people who(in your opinion) are going to die any way.So this does fit with mass casuality training. Johnray1
    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reality check Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2007 at 5:06pm
   
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

   The EMS people were told that WHEN AND IF A Flu case was confirmed in a given home,they were to ignore any calls for help from that home and not even stop any more.      Does anyone on this board think this story is true???..btw johnny..as a dr"?"...why are you not speaking up or do you think leaving people to die because our ems or fire dept has been told to ignor is your "medical" training. What a moron..sorry Albert but this is crazy talk and needs to be addressed if this forum has any credibility!!!!    


    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Johnray1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2007 at 2:40am
reality check,I hope that you are right and that I am wrong.I even hope that nothing that even looks like "Bird Flu" ever" makes it to our country. But you do need to go look up in any medical book on mass trauma or mass illnesses and see what it says about the one patients that you might be able to save and the one's that you think can not be saved. Just to add a little to this,nurses will be making these discisions at triage.Johnray1   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2007 at 3:35am
Originally posted by Johnray1 Johnray1 wrote:

reality check,I hope that you are right and that I am wrong.I even hope that nothing that even looks like "Bird Flu" ever" makes it to our country. But you do need to go look up in any medical book on mass trauma or mass illnesses and see what it says about the one patients that you might be able to save and the one's that you think can not be saved. Just to add a little to this,nurses will be making these discisions at triage.Johnray1   
 
When it comes to a Panflu,  I agree that doctors will have to make some very tough calls.  If the average hospital has around 50 ventilators, most of which might already be in use, you would need to save the remaining ventilators for those who have the best chance to survive.  You would in fact have to separate the sick, from those who are VERY sick and who don't have much of a chance.  It makes sense not to waste much time on someone who is near death vs. someone who has a chance at recovering.  In a case like this in which medical personnel and equipment are stretched too thin, there would be extremely tough decisions to be made. 
 
Healthcare workers would have to use their resources (including themselves) wisely.  
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johngardner2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2007 at 9:00am
    Hi Albert, just had to re register, the board says my account isn't registered and wouldn't let me post
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2007 at 12:45pm
Hi John, the problem is fixed.  Let me know if you need anymore help.
 
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