help, please. backup elctricity

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   Lord, I dont know why i did not think of this. i got the idea from this forum.

I have a 1100 watt inverter. I have a 5500 watt generator. i can build a bank of car batteries. I can use the inverter to run my brothers concentrator. i can then use the generator to charge the batteries.

now i need to know how long the charge in the batteries will last. how long it will take to charge the batteries. how to set the thing up.

if yall got any info or websites. this will probably decrease my fuel needs and keep my brother alive a little longer.

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Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: help, please. backup elctricity Posted: September 18 2006 at 7:58am
	Lord, I dont know why i did not think of this. i got the idea from this forum. I have a 1100 watt inverter. I have a 5500 watt generator. i can build a bank of car batteries. I can use the inverter to run my brothers concentrator. i can then use the generator to charge the batteries. now i need to know how long the charge in the batteries will last. how long it will take to charge the batteries. how to set the thing up. if yall got any info or websites. this will probably decrease my fuel needs and keep my brother alive a little longer.

AVanarts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Valued Member Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 97	Post Options Post Reply Quote AVanarts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 18 2006 at 8:03am
	Car batteries are a bad investment for such an application. They are not made to be drained and recharged and will not last long. WalMart has 115 amp hour deep cycle batteries for about $67 (last time I checked). These would be a much better choice, but still you shouldn't drain them much more than 50 or 60% to get the best life span from them. Better batteries are available for a higher price, but the 115 amp hour batteries at Wallyworld seem to be about the best bang for the buck that I have found.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 18 2006 at 8:40am
	thanks, i was thinking about marine batteries. i read that they charge and decharge better than most batteries.

Scotty Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scotty Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 18 2006 at 10:44am
	So to get reasonable cover you are going to need about twenty batteries, ten of which are going to be on charge at any one time. For light demand, excluding air conditioning, heating and cooking its going to cost about �1400, plus the control gear, plus the voltage regulator, plus the auto cut off switch, plus the wiring, plus the shed to house the stuff, plus the inverter, plus the generator, plus the fuel to run the thing. Did you hear about the NASA ballpoint pen that cost a billion dollars and could write upside down in a total vacuum? The Russians used a pencil.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 18 2006 at 12:27pm
	A lot depends on how much power the concentrator uses. Charging also depends on the charge setting of the charger you are using. Walmart sells a smart charger that charges close to the amp setting it is set on and will charge a lot faster than conventional chargers. I would think 4 deep cell batteries would be enough for most medical uses. Simply wire Pos. to Pos. and Neg. to Neg. and hook cables from inverter to batteries. Just be careful to hook the cables to the right posts, cause if the cables of the inverter is reversed, the inverter will be damaged.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 18 2006 at 3:53pm
	you need to look on the concentrator and see either how many amps it draws or what the wattage is. If it's 120 volt, if it draws 1 amp then it it 120 watt. Volts x amps = watts. watts means watts per hour. now the batteries. hook them up in parallel and they stay 12 volts. but deliver a certain amps longer, twice as long for 2 batteries. 1 x 12 volt 100 amp hour deep cycle marine battery will deliver 12 volts at 100 amps for 1 hr then it is dead. In reality it is rated to deliver so many amps per hr, ie. 25 amps per hour for 4 hours, would be considered a 100 amp hour battery. If you want it to last a long time, you should not deplete it past 50 amp hour in order to extend the life cycles of the battery. so a 12 volt 100 amp hour battery will deliver 1200 watts (volts x amps = watts), but should only be depleted of 600 watts before it is recharged. back to the concentrator. take the wattage available from the batteries(s) say 1200 watts and divide by the wattage of the concentrator 120 watts( as an example) 1200 / 120 = 10. You can power the concentrator for 10 hours before the battery is dead. However. if you want the battery to last for many charge cycles, only power it for 5 hours before recharging. If the concentrator has a large motor, then it will draw a very large amount of amps for a very short time when it first starts, the inverter or the generator would have to be able to supply that large current ( amps) considered in the peak power rating. A nominal startup peak current for a large motor could be a factor of 20. If the motor draws 1 amp continuously, the on startup it will draw about 20 amps., so a 120 watt motor would need a peak power supply capable of delivering 2400 watts peak. I hope this helps. You need to look where the power plug goes into the unit and see what the rating in watts or amps and volts is and start from there. If you post what you find, I'm sure we can help you out.

Scotty Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scotty Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 20 2006 at 3:50am
	So running a single light bulb for twelve hours will, in practice, require two 100 AmpHour batteries. Computers and central heating pumps consume power at four times that rate. Storing electrical energy is costly and inefficient. Gas, Coal, Charcoal, Diesel, Gasoline, and Kerosine are better bets.

Bill 100 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Valued Member Joined: May 21 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 524	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bill 100 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 20 2006 at 4:11am
	Corrected
	A storm is coming !

Scotty Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scotty Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 20 2006 at 10:59am
	Nothing can hold 1500 watts. It can hold watt hours or it can hold amp hours. It may have a rated output of 1500 watts but this is not very helpful without knowing the anticipated duration of this output.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 20 2006 at 4:26pm
	scotty, my brother is sick. he has pulmornary fibrosis. he is on oxygen most of the time. i am just trying to come up with a plan to keep him alive as long as possible. he is on an oxygen concentrator. this device runs off of electricity. he has backup cylinders but they wont last long. i am reading and researching as fast as i can. for him to die for lack of oxygen, that is not acceptable. i have to find a way to keep his oxygen concentrator working. the concentrator is all i am worried about. if it is cold we will dress layered. if it is hot we will strip down to the minimum. i have a way for heating water and cooking, etc.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 20 2006 at 4:32pm
	mach, thanks that helps.

roxy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Valued Member Joined: February 27 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 534	Post Options Post Reply Quote roxy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 20 2006 at 5:14pm
	Tigger, I think you should post the infro on the concentrator, so these kind people can help you, I believe all electrical appliances have to have it listed on a panel/ door ? I also would be interested in how to keep one going, eh, you never know, roxy

AVanarts Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Valued Member Joined: March 30 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 97	Post Options Post Reply Quote AVanarts Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 20 2006 at 5:37pm
	Tigger1, since you didn't list the specifications of the oxygen concentrator, I looked up a couple as examples. They were both 5 liter units made by Invacare. The specifications said they draw an average wattage of 385 and 390 watts. I won't even bother to post my crude calculations, but it sure looks like a battery bank would be impractical if you need to run the concentrator more than a few hours a day. It would just take too many batteries and even with a good generator, you wouldn't be able to charge them fast enough. You would be better off buying a heavy duty generator and enough fuel to keep it powered. Believe me, the cost of batteries will add up even faster than the cost of the generator. I see in your original post that you have a 5500 watt generator. If it is capable of extended use, you may want to look into getting a tri-fuel adapter that will let you power it on Natural Gas, Prppane or Gasoline, whichever is available. I have an adapter that I plan to use on my little Coleman, but also only plan to use it about 4 hours a day - 2 in the AM and 2 in the PM. I'll use Natural gas first and switch to gasoline if/when the Nat Gas stops flowing.

Guests Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group	Post Options Post Reply Quote Guests Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 21 2006 at 4:37am
	Tiger 1: What is the current arrangement for running the generator in a power cut. Do the healthcare providers have any ideas? What about family, could they help with fuel storage for the generator and concentrator? There must be others in this situation, who have made plans for normal power cuts. Beth

Scotty Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 846	Post Options Post Reply Quote Scotty Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September 21 2006 at 9:11am
	tigger1: This sounds like it could be a matter of life or death. Professional help sounds more appropriate than highly skilled DIY and what I'm hearing on this thread isn't worth the gamble. I've no medical expertise but there was a good thread about oxygen bottles a while back. It might be worth checking out.