Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Yes - since there are only two of us, I also plan on using small jars. If we have no electricity, I want to be able to use them efficiently. BUTTER EXPERTS! PLEASE HELP US!
How long after we put them on the shelf would it take for botulism to set in?
After opening, what is the shelf life if refrigerated?
If no electricity, how long can we expect a jar to last if the house is not hot?
Thanks so much!
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Honeybee
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Honeybee, I don't think you need to worry about botulism since that is a toxin and not bacteria....I'm thinking maybe of the usual crud that forms on stuff after exposure to the air...not necessarily a life threat.... Hope someone can help p.s. otherwise the shelf life unopened should be 5yrs + so they say |
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[QUOTE=bellabecky]I posted this in the discussion forum...but thought some here might find it interesting.
Hello all. I just got back from the LDS Store House and it was like going to Costco and they were having a clearance sale! Wow! I am so in awe of the LDS folks! I went there today, they were as nice as anyone I've ever met. I filled the cans they gave me, they put an oxygen absorber on top and a lid and put the can on the machine and in 30 seconds it was done. I did 32 cans of my own product in less than an hour. Plus, like you said, Costco or sams on clearance!Pudding, hot chocolate, soups etc. (at a fraction of the cost of everywhere else) I am going back soon. Thanks bellabecky! Jo
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OK...Im jealous! There isn't one of those LDS places near me.......And boy could I use the savings all of you are gettingI am prepping for seven,me ,hubby and five kids. You should count your blessings guys!
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raptureready, The one I go to is about 30 minutes away, next town over but worth the drive. If you can find one in that range you could get a whole lot done in one visit. I didn't know what to expect, so I didn't take too much. Jo |
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The butter before it is canned is more likely to spoil faster as it is a raw product. The butter that is canned has been cooked. It will still spoil, just not as fast. I have had butter in a butter dissh on my counter for a week, so I don't see any problem with canned butter. That is why I did it in jelly jars, we willuse that in a week. Jo
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HoosierMom
Valued Member Joined: June 15 2006 Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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Honeybee I refrigerated mine 24 hrs. took them out of frig tonight, going to find a cool dark cabinet to put them in, thought I would wait a few wks then take a good dose on some bread ( careful to exclude the family) nothin worse than trying to take care of everyone while your sick too ! I had never thought about canning butter, has anyone canned any other unusual things ?
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jo007athome,
Thanks for the advice on butter storage. It makes sense. half pts. or jelly jars for sure |
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I may try to can it today. Yesterday we had thunderstorms and power outages.
Isn't it funny how we use ourselves to test stuff? lol I had the same game plan.
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Honeybee
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Honeybee
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I can't wait to try this!
I found this recipe while surfing for information on canning: Canned Apple Cake Does anyone see any reasons we couldn't turn this into a pineapple sorta-upside down cake, or other variations? |
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Honeybee
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Honeybee, Although I can butter without it being fully approved, these receipe's for cake in a jar do make me nervous. The warning comes with some of the ing. that go into them that could harbor "bad Bugs" so to speak... Please check it out further to be sure.... Good luck |
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Mary,
what makes you nervous in that recipe? I know that water boils at 212 degrees (higher for altitude) so wouldn't it be safe after being cooked for an hour (at least 30 minutes would be at temp) and sealed while still hot? I am asking because I am new to canning and trying to establish the principles in my mind. Jo
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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since i posted it I saw a warning also. made me wonder if i should remove it. hopefully we will get more comments from people more knowledgable than myself. If it seems unwise, I will delete the post...
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Honeybee
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HoosierMom
Valued Member Joined: June 15 2006 Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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The pineapple may have some acidic property that might not make for a good recipe. Definately like the idea. What specific concerns about your recipe do you have ? i think i would like to try this one.
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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The article I read with warnings is pdf, so can't copy it to here: The focus was over the fact that processing wasn't high enough to prevent botulinism because it was low acid content.
Doesn't this make it the same concern as making butter?
I am thinking it will be safe if I used processed things (canned fruits only) and for the nuts and raisins, not sure. If I pay for them at a grocery store, not bulk, hasn't the danger of bot already been eliminated?
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Honeybee
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Honeybee,
I went to the site and read it. They have all the info on high acid and low acid foods, pressure and water bath recommendations. I don't think you would have to worry about botulism as long as you are VERY careful (as always) to keep the jars sterile.The cook time for the cake should bring it up to temp for killing bacteria at 60 minutes.Sterile, sterile, sterile! That is the key to successful canning.
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Thank you! It seems ok to me also.
I was afraid that I would give bad info in my enthusiam and desire to have these on the shelf.
I have 6 lbs of butter waiting to be canned first, but am really excited now about trying the cakes. If food gets low, eating this with canned butter will be such a luxury!
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Honeybee
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HoosierMom
Valued Member Joined: June 15 2006 Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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What do you think would happen if we baked it then put it in a pressure cooker to process ? would this maybe make it safer ? |
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It is the heat that bakes it so I would just pressure can to begin with. 10 lbs pressure for 60 minutes. you might want to bake one in a jar to find out the batter/raise ratio because you don't want it to overflow in the canner.
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Go here to see recipe for brownies, zucchini break and pumpkin spice bread: http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/recipes/Jar_Cakes.htm Other jar recipes: http://www.recipegoldmine.com/cakejar/cakejar.html http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/Vineyard/2429/jarcakes.html There are many more out there. |
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Honeybee
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Can someone tell me about the markings on canning jars?
I found some canning jars that were from a jam factory, and am told they have and M and K on the bottom. I did notice the lids were not in two parts, so am not sure they would be standard size.
Since they do have the seals in the lid, do you think the would be safe for the cakes? They are 8 oz jars.
Thursday - these jars are on ebay. The seller is on the west coast and the shipping would be insane for me - better to go to walmarts. Perhaps if you are in or near CA, it will be a good deal:
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Honeybee
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bellabecky
Adviser Group Joined: June 07 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 396 |
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I put this in the discussion forum...but it might help here too...
I get canning jars from Craigslist.com for practically nothing. Lots of people just give them away if you'll pick them up. I got 48 of those older ones for $30(glass lids & wire) and made candles in them, and 4 cases of quart jars for $10.00. One person was giving away 12 cases of jars, various sizes, for free. The only requirement was you had to take them all. I didn't see the ad in time or would've went to get them! Sometimes they have lids, sometimes not...but it's still less expensive then getting it all new. You can also ask for free stuff on Craigslist, lots of people do. "Looking for...". I even saw a lady ask for people with Cherry Trees (and/or other fruit trees) in their yards, saying she would come and "clean up your sticky mess" and give one free can of fruit to every five she was able to can. I just got back from picking up 10 dozen jars (five dozen 1/2 gallon & five dozen quart sized), for $15.00. They didn't have too many lids so I'll have to buy some more lids, and run them through the dishwasher. The couple is moving to Hawaii and even threw in 5 gallons of pickles. WooHoo! They are really good. She has cinnamon sticks in them and chili's, amongst the traditional stuff. It is a really different taste, but tasty! Yes, I already cracked one open! I check Craigslist.com at night before I go to bed and when I get up. Just a freebie site to share! Craigslist.com. Find your state, then city. They have stuff for sale (that is where the free stuff is), job listings, services, tons of stuff local in your community. No listing fees, no shipping costs like other internet sites. It's just a community resource. Happy Searching! DON'T do like I did and forget the 'S'. A friend told me about it just a few months ago and I kept searching for craiglist. Here's the link: www.craigslist.com For some reason the page opens to San Francisco, which I'm nowhere near..haven't been able to figure out how to reset? I just manually click myself over to my city. If anyone is successful in getting good deals and/or free stuff, let me know. I'd love to hear about it! |
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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CANNED BUTTER QUESTIONS My first batch turned out well. For all the shaking, the seals held.
They seem to be lower in volume than what i poured in. Not by much. My concern is that a couple of the tall ones, i apparently did not fill well. There is over an inch of space. Should i be worried? If so I will use them now.
Salted vs Non Salted... Is there any reason I can't mix the two when I can it? Has anyone found a ratio they like?
Thank you!
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Honeybee
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Honeybee, The volume is not to worry about. For some reason the first few jars are like that...I have some that are pretty light, and I don't intend to open them.. I have opened a jar that I canned back in Feb, just to see how it was...There was no problem....I really do think that canning the butter makes it better tasting...Who knew!!! I don't know of any reason that you couldn't mix the butters together. It sounds like a good idea.. |
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Thanks Mary
I did notice that on one jar, its low because some butter stuck to the lid while shaking.
I have everything set to try the apple bread today. Bought 24 pint jars at Walmarts.
I saw a recipe for carrot cake that used canned carrots - so if this goes well, I plan to make the jar carrot cake recipe, but substitute canned for raw and I will feel good about botulism.
The one site said just about any quick bread will work.
Later... Well the apple cake is in the oven. I skipped the cloves, raisins and nuts.
I ended up with only 7 jars tho, so not sure if they will overflow. If so, I will take them out, spoon out the excess and return them to the oven for 10 minutes to get temp back up. Will have to clean the rim good, but I think that will work.
Later Still...Some rose pretty high, but I only had to smash two down with a fork and was able to put then lids on right then. Haven't eaten one yet, but it smells heavenly!
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Honeybee
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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The apple bread was a success. DH liked it also. I noticed that it was a very heavy bread, which is fine. If we are in that position it will be good that it is very filling. I am thinking it will taste really good with a can of beans.
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Honeybee
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HoosierMom
Valued Member Joined: June 15 2006 Status: Offline Points: 334 |
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Honeybee where did you get the carrot cake and apple bread recipes, I am wanting to try one on monday . How long are they good for after canning ? Hopefully at least year. Thanks bunches ! I am loving this canning thing. I am putting out some more tomat. plants today , have six and they are doing so well I am doing more. So i will be looking for some tomato recipes in a coulple months. |
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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The applecake recipe is at the top of this page - there are some other links half way down.
I found the carrott cake here:
its full of eyecandy so annoying to read lol
I served up the applecake today and DH and his son ate me out of two jars already! Will have to hid this one i see...
People say different time frames but if you read above, people say a year is ok to expect.
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Honeybee
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davidrstack
Adviser Group Joined: June 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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Greetings; I am new to this forum and delighted to see canning meats discussed. I know about sterilizing the lids and jars.... I have a pressure cooker (National) which I inherited. I had my local cooperative extension office check the dial gage (for free) and it is works perfect. I did purchase a new gasket and pressure lease "thingie" to make sure they were working correctly. I was looking on this forum for web sites that gave web addresses for how to can meat. Here is one I found. Do you add liquid to your canning? Or do you just back the meat in as the directions say and the process. http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_05/strips_cubes_chunks.html When I talk to my friends about being prepared for the Bird flu outbreak they all think I am nuts. I keep purchasing food and other supplies to take care of my family. Dave
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davidrstack
Adviser Group Joined: June 25 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 27 |
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Mirage, Thank you for your post. I too am interested in canning meat. My pressure canner has been tested by the local coorperate extension office and is in excellent working order. Do you cook your pork before processing? I have read that you cook meat to the rare stage and then pressure can the meat. Is that how you processed yours?
I am new to canning and really want to start ASAP so if this bird flu becomes a big problem I will have food to last months at the house so I won't have to go out.
Here are some web sites that are helpful, I did a google search under "how to can meats" and here are the first three results:
Ohio State University:
National center for Home Food Preservation:
North Dakota State University
Hope to hear about your success with canning meats,
Dave
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Dave,
First let me welcome you to the forum. Great place to learn. As to your question about canning with or without broth, I always do it with. It will only add more flavor to whateverdish you make with it. As to cooked vs raw pack for me, When I precook the meat until it's no longer pink on the out side it reducesthe shrinkage in the jar. You have basically preshrunk your meat. The other advantage precooking has over raw pack to me is I can skim off the fats before I can, with less likelyhood of it going rancid. Hope this helps. We enjoyed our chicken & yellow rice this evening from chicken canned a few weeks ago. I too am trying to play catch up. Good luck to you, Jo
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Cygnet
Valued Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Just as an observation: while expirementing with unapproved methods of canning is well and good in a world where emergency rooms are available and they can stick you on a respirator until you regrow your nerve endings if you end up with botulism -- do you really want to trust canned butter or canned cake (the latter is definitely a no-no because the air in the cake may insulate it and it may not heat all the way through)?
Might be okay, might not. Botulism is a killer and cannot be treated at home if the hospitals are full of flu patients. |
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I really have to agree . Even though I am canning butter at this time. I am very concerned about the cakes......There are just too many warnings out there with accounts of people getting ill....PLEEEEEASE reconsider..... Mary |
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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From what I have read here and elsewhere:
The process of canning quick breads is not approved, because of the possibility of botulism, although has been practiced for generations. The temp it is baked at is hot enough to kill all the micro organisms (250 degrees does that). The fact that it does not reach 350 degrees for any length of time means it does not kill any botulism spores. This would be of grave concern if you are on a farm and intend on using your own butter, flour, apples, etc.
If approached sensibly, I feel it can be safe; here is what I have done:
#1 - taste test, make only items the family enjoys so they don't sit on the shelf.
2 - Because you begin with family favorites, begin rotation at a 6 month supply; make more monthly or as needed.
#2 - I only use commercial store-bought ingredients. My apple bread is made with canned applesauce. My carrot cake contains mashed canned carrots. If you do this, you will be using products in which botulism has already been dealt with.
#3 - I changed the cooking temp from 325 to 350 just in case- they came out fine.
#4 - be attentive and strict about boiling the lids and caps; also moving fast to can them before each one cools.
#5 - I have a refrigerator in the basement, they, and the butter, are stored there. They say it prolongs the shelf life a great deal. If/when power goes out, they will still last for a few months.
#6 - check regularly that the lids are sealed - look for any mold when you open it.
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Honeybee
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lkay
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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jo007athome, any particular brand of butter that you think taste the best? I was about to order powered butter then found this thread. I think I'll give canning it a try. I put of 7 quarts of pickles this weekend from the cucumbers out of my garden. They are so pretty! I just love looking at canned food. They taste so good too! If any one has more cukes than they know what to do with, I'll be happy to post the recipe. It was my moms and she always seemed to find the best recipes. It's not hard, but does require 3 days to process the cukes. Most just stirring, soaking, and water changes. Linda |
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Linda - this is my first time also.
They say the brand/quality makes no difference in the final product, but that the lower priced may require more shaking. I don't think it matters because I was keeping such a close eye on them, it would not have saved me time if I bought the more expensive one.
They say the butter is good, but saltier because of the liquid that is boiled out. Everyone seems happy with the salty butter, others say that they will used unsalted. I plan to make my next batch half salted, half unsalted, then decide which i like before making more.
I saw this question earlier but have not seen an answer - can you can margarine instead of butter? Some of us have cholesterol concerns...
so if anyone knows or has tried, please let us know.
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Honeybee
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lkay
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Thanks honeybee.
I was wondering the same thing about the margarine.
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I used both land o' lakes and publix brand. I couldn't tell the difference taste wise, but it did take longer for the publix to harden. We ate the leftovers from each batch. I don't know if you could can margerine. I don't think it has the fat content that would be necessary for it to congeal like butter. Margarine is very soft even when refridgerated. Jo
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lkay
V.I.P. Member Joined: March 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Honeybee, I just read this on the internet:
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Yikes!
225 isn't even enough to kill micro organisms!
A better question is can you boil the margarine as you do the butter?
I wouldn't dare use this method for my butter - I am sticking to boiling it!!!
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Honeybee
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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I found this while surfing, its not about canning, but intresting: http://www.kitchenhintsandtips.com/storing_rice.shtml
STORING RICE Make up an extra batch or two of rice. Scoop the cooked rice into small storage containers and freeze until firm. (allow about 3-4 hours) Remove the containers from the freezer and remove the rice. Place the frozen rice blocks into a large freezer bag and seal well. Note the date that the rice was made on the bag. Now just place the rice in the freezer until it is needed. The rice can be frozen for up to 6 months in this manner. To defrost and use, simply pull out how many blocks of rice you will need to prepare, remove from the bags and place in a saucepan. Add approximately 2 tablespoons of water for every 1 cup of cooked rice that is in the pan. Place the saucepan over med-low heat and cover. Simmer until heated through, stirring occasionally to break up and frozen chunks. |
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Honeybee
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[QUOTE=honeybee]
I found this while surfing, its not about canning, but intresting: http://www.kitchenhintsandtips.com/storing_rice.shtml
STORING RICE Make up an extra batch or two of rice. Scoop the cooked rice into small storage containers and freeze until firm. (allow about 3-4 hours) Remove the containers from the freezer and remove the rice. Place the frozen rice blocks into a large freezer bag and seal well. Note the date that the rice was made on the bag. Now just place the rice in the freezer until it is needed. The rice can be frozen for up to 6 months in this manner. Have you ever tried frozen rice? YUCK! It is really gummy. Are you going to try this? Let me know if it comes out OK for you. Blessings!
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honeybee
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 20 2006 Status: Offline Points: 188 |
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Probably not now! I wasn't all that concerned about rice anyway...
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Honeybee
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