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Homeopathy and the 1918 Flu

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carverhomeopath View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 04 2006 at 8:34pm
There was quite a few homeopathic remedies that were used in the 1918
flu. Bryonia, Gelsimium, Symph., Eupt, Aconite, were one of many.
Homeopathy was a shinning star in those very dark days. The following
article was compiled by a homeopath in 1921. He wnted to collect the
stories of what homeopaths experienced with their clients.

I am a classically trained homeopath from a 4 year school. We have
already met as a group and are in touch with many homeopaths in
Europe. We are making plans in preparation. What will the most
successful remedies be? It isn't possible to know until it gets here. As it
moves west, we will know from homeopaths in Europe what has worked
there.

My best advice? See a classical homeopath, get your constitutional
remedy NOW. Your best remedy choice my be the first remedy they try,
or it may take some time.

If you know your constitutional remedy, you are that much further ahead
should that day ever come. If this flu doesn't materialize, you still have a
great deal of healing on all levels, mental, emotional as well as the
physical.

Be well, Carver homeopath
************************************************************ **************
What was the 1918 Influenza
Epidemic’s most effective healing system?

           History shows us that there was a very effective healing system
in the USA to treat patients during 1918-1919 influenza epidemic. From
information recorded by these doctors, this type of treatment was highly
successful. In most cases one or two medicines were needed. These are
known as the "genus epidemicus" in an epidemic and become known
through the careful observation of a number of influenza cases.

           In 1921 W.A. Dewey MD., published a paper reviewing the use
of this system after the worst of the epidemic was finished. The following
extracts are from this paper.

     *      ;In Philadelphia 26,795 influenza cases treated by these
physicians had a mortality rate of 1.05% compared with the conventional
mortality rate of 30%.

     *      ;In Connecticut 30 physicians reported 6,602 cases with 55
deaths, (<1%). Dr. Roberts in Connecticut also reported 81 cases in the
transport service all treated with this system of treatment and all
recovered.

     *      In a factory in Chicago, Dr Wieland reported influenza in 8000
workers with one death. All were treated with this type of healing
modality. He reports no aspirin was used and no vaccines.

     *      Dr. Williams in Rhode Island reported no losses from influenza
and a 2.1% loss in those that developed pneumonia. He observed that
Drs. using aspirin as the main treatment were having a 60% mortality in
those patients that developed pneumonia.

     *      ;Dr. Sappington reports that from 1500 influenza cases
recorded by a Medical Society of the District of Columbia only 15 died.
Recoveries in a hospital specializing in this type of treatment plan was
100%.
     
     *      ;In Ohio, Dr McCann treated 1000 cases of influenza and had no
losses.
     He says all credit must be given to this healing system.

     *      ;Raymond Siedel decided to become a doctor of this healing
system when he was a 10 year old delivery boy for a local practitioner. He
said " I saw that people who were taking Aspirin were dying, about half
those who were drinking a lot of whiskey were dying, and those that
received this type of remedy were living."

     *      ;It was generally observed by these practitioners in the US at the
time that the use of Aspirin was a major cause of deaths during the
influenza epidemic. It’s indirect action came through the fact that aspirin
was taken until prostration resulted and the patient developed
pneumonia.

     *      ;In Kentucky, Dr. Huff wrote " I almost invariably gave these
     medicines. I hardly ever lost a case if I got there first, unless the
patient had been sent to a drug store and bought Aspirin, in which event I
was likely to have a case of pneumonia on my hands."

carver homeopath
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dejuan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:29pm

Hello,

 

Very interesting.  I will send this to my friends.  Thank-you.

Dejuan

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 12:48pm
Wow, thanks carverhomeopath, good to know! Do you have the source or a link?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 4:09pm
Good afternoon folks!

It is an amazing documentation of history!!! That was published in the
American Institute of Homeopathy in 1920. That journal no longer exists.
This was found by a homeopath and a homeopathic historian Jullian
Winston. When he found that he has recirculated it in our email loops.

If you read those quotes, you will see that the old homeopaths were
seeing the Ryes syndrome 45 years before the 'disease name' was ever
coined. Many of the deaths in the 1918 flu were caused by way too much
asprin. It was the new 'wonder drug' of it's day. (Some things don't
change, do they?)

The western doctors stubbornly refused the helping hand that
homeopaths offered. Homeopaths quietly did their job with out the fear
that paralyzed their allopathic colleagues.

We are not hog-tied by a diagnosis or lack of one. It is simply a matter of
taking a detailed case followed by a careful analysis. The remedy is
taken. The clients body does the rest.

I can't emphasize enough, especially if flu hits you hard, get to a classical
homeopath before it hits. You will have greater resistance and should
you get sick, this remedy will be your greatest help. That and staying in
bed.

We are watching it. We have a quiet, confident outlook. We know our
craft, what it has done and what it can do. NEVER underestimate the
power of homeopathy.

One website that has been put together by a colleague here in the Twin
Cities that is very nice. Hope you like it.
"Demystifying homeopathy"

Be well
Sue Mills
Carver Homeopath
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2006 at 4:38pm
ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paulx54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 7:15pm
Hello
 
This is my first post here.  Have been reading this forum for  a while now. I want to commend you guys for the excellent job that you are doing.  Many will live to a ripe old age due to your efforts! 
 
Just wanted add that aspirin increases inflammatory cytokines IL6 and IL8.  Note that the mortality rate for patients who used aspirins during the 1918 pandemic was roughly equal to that of present H5N1.  I wonder how long it takes the hospital  to initiate an aspirin regimin to  patients presenting with fever and flu symptoms?  30 minutes???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2006 at 7:23pm
Paul... I'm no expert but I don't believe hospitals administer aspirin unless under DIRECT orders of a physician and for specific cause.
 
Tylenol and/or Motrin are the analgesics of choice.
 
But, if I am wrong, perhaps someone could correct me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 12:18pm
In most cases one or two medicines were needed. These are
known as the "genus epidemicus" in an epidemic and become known
through the careful observation of a number of influenza cases.
 
Did I miss something?  What are the 2 medicines?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 4:00pm
Pebbles,
That was taken from the 1921 Dewey article on Homeopathy and the 1918 Flu. In those days they called Homeopathic remedies 'medicines'. Most of the Doc's used them along with the developing drugs in that era.

This line could have been written for a couple of reasons.

#1 A pandemic is considered an acute illness that temporarily sweeps across the population, overtaking even the people that the old time homeopaths knew their constitutional state. The pandemic has such power that it latches on temporarily overpowering the normal state. This author could have meant that it will take the constitutional rem and a 'genus epidemicus' rem to get the person out of it.

#2 The recover, if you survived, was grueling. It took a very very long time to recover from the 1918 flu. Sometimes, one rem. brought them out of the crisis and later they needed another to get them off the recovery stage into life again.

#3   It could have been that one homeopathic remedy didn't cover all of the crisis symptoms and more than one remedy was needed in the heat of the battle.

Lesson learned from the 1918 flu was to KNOW YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL REMEDY!!!! Even more so for your chidren. They are the most vulnerable. I know you all know that. Finding this can take time.... you may find it with the first precription, it may take many precriptions. Do not wait until the whole world is unglued and expect a homeopath to figure this out while the crisis is in full swing.

Be well
Sue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2006 at 6:41pm
Gotcha!  Thanks Sue.
Blackbird singing in the dead of the night. Take these broken wings and learn to fly. All my life. You were only waiting for this moment to arise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerSnap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2006 at 6:43pm
This is the most useful article I have seen on the use of homeopatic remedies in 1918:  http://www.herbaltherapeutics.net/Favorite_Remedies.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2006 at 7:58pm
GingerSnap,
Thankyou for the document!   I have given this to a few of my fellow Homeopaths here in Minnesota! It was incredibly effective then and we have every reason to look ahead and remain confident now.

Homeopaths appeared to be fearless because they had such confidence in their healing art. They went places that others were frightened to go because they had a different way of looking at the problem.

Homeopathy dispells fear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nutrovitasub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 4:36am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerSnap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 6:31pm
Carver, I was less anxious before details came out about how quickly h5n1 can bring someone down.  Even homeopathy needs a little time to work.  And then there is the issue of whether the right remedy is used.  I'm not a homeopath, just a layperson with a great interest in homeopathy.  I've stocked up on remedies and information specific to the flu and am relatively prepared to self-treat if necessary.  Still, I hope there is some warning so the international community can weigh in about what might be the genus epidemicus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2006 at 7:25pm
GingerSnap,
it's amazing how quickly they work. And we are watching for the genus epidemicus.

it is also possible that remedies that come close enough will buy time. The key is'similar' not exact. if you have ever used a remedy, like on a bruise, you feel it within 30 seconds.

Again, if you are really worried go to a classically trained homeopath. your constitutional remedy will be a powerful ally. it will be your first choice for your flu remedy. When that is given the next evaluation will be what will cover the rest. Knowing your constitutional is absolutely your best bet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LotusLady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2006 at 8:41am
I just want to add that about 85% of the people needed the same remedy in 1918.  Even with little colds and influenza that goes around each year, as a homeopath, after a few calls, people all start to sound the same.  For example, this year when the stomach flu was going around, except for one person, all the others who got the stomach flu needed the same remedy.  You don't know this, of course, until you have a few calls. 
 
Self treatment isn't very easy for any acute illness.  I still call my homeopathic practitioner unless it is really clear what I need. 
 
So, I encourage my clients to take a class and bring a friend because you may not have the presence of mind to prescribe for yourself.  Personally, I have a few planned for around my region through community education.  There are also books out there to learn how to treat acute illness. 
 
But your best and safest bet, to reiterate what Carver Homeopath wrote, is to visit a classical homeopath, get a constitutional remedy and establish a relationship with a homeopath.  Then you don't have to worry about treating yourself.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerSnap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2006 at 6:37pm
I have a homeopath and I have a constitutional remedy, which I consider a good start but not nearly enough. 
 
What concerns me is the speed that influenza can hit which means I may not have the luxury of consulting with my homeopath or at least I probably won't want to wait.  I have a very wide selection of remedies on hand because I don't want to be in a position of waiting for my homeopath to tell me what to take and them having to go searching for it. 
 
I don't particularly want to self-prescribe because I realize the difficulty it would present if I was more than mildly sick, on top of the difficulty of being objective enough anyway.  (I don't hold out any hope that my roommate will catch on either.)  I hope there is some broadcasting of a genus epidemicus before it hits here and that is an example of the information I hope to gain from my homeopath ahead of time, as far as what she has seen in the area since it could be a little different than what is circulating internationally.
 
My current plan is oscillococcinum at the very first sign of something - I carry it with me for that reason.  Then I'll start worrying about the specific symptoms, what remedy that suggests, and fitting in my constitutional and various non-pharma anti-virals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 3:51pm
Thanks Gingersnap for your post.  I find the article certainly worth further study and I would welcome any MD input to the remedies outlined.  Meanwhile I found this herbal site that has a good database of descriptions of many of the remedies listed.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2006 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:


Again, if you are really worried go to a classically trained homeopath.
Carver Homeopath
 
Ok, how does one find one? They aren't in the yellow pages! I do want to check this alternative out, I am sick of doctors handing me antibiotics and I'm still sick and more antibiotics etc until I have just given up on feeling  well ever again. Thanks in advance, Jo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2006 at 4:02pm
This is the web site for the North American Homeopathic Society. They have a list of practitioners. I haven't looked at that list for a long time. Here is my email should you want to write me in person. We will certainly try to get you plugged in. This is so worth it.

suehh@mn.rr.com
http://www.homeopathy.org/   (North American Homeopathic Society)

Be Well,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2006 at 10:14pm
from Pebbles....
In most cases one or two medicines were needed. These are
known as the "genus epidemicus" in an epidemic and become known
through the careful observation of a number of influenza cases.
 
Did I miss something?  What are the 2 medicines?
 
...............................................................................................................................................
very good explanation here....
 
 
Excerpt-
 
 
The most severe epidemic of all time was the great Influenza Pandemic of 1918. Twenty percent of the entire world population was infected and 20-40 million people died.
 
The epidemic was so devastating that the average lifespan in the United States was decreased by ten years.(9) During this epidemic homeopathic medicines were used widely both for treatment and as prophylaxis.
 
The average mortality under standard treatment ran from 2.5-10%, while 1% or fewer patients died under homeopathic treatment.
 
Gelsemium sempervirens, Arsenicum album and Bryonia alba were the primary remedies used in the United States during this epidemic.(14), (15),(16)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerSnap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2006 at 11:05am

Homeopathic remedies are chosen based on exact symptoms and that can vary by strain.  We won't know what the h5n1 genus epidemicus is until the pandemic takes off, and possibly it will be different in different parts of the world.  It will be the one or two remedies the homeopathic community has determined have been the most effective.  It may still not be the best remedy for a particular individual, but statistically, it is an efficient way to address a large population.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian_J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 7:08pm
Thankfully, medicine has advanced a bit since 1918. This time around there will be more effective treatments than homeopathy.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 7:38pm
Like what? Any thing on the horizion looking good? They have had 88 years to figure it out....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2006 at 7:42pm
This is the latest from WebMD:

Updated:2006-09-28 17:17:51
Deadly Bird Flu Virus Able to Mutate
AP
GENEVA (Sept. 28) - The deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu which has killed at least 148 people is showing signs of being able to mutate and develop resistance to the most effective anti-viral drugs and any possible vaccines yet to be produced, a WHO scientist said Thursday.

The H5N1 virus is splitting into genetically different groups, said Mike Perdue, a team leader with WHO's influenza program who took part in a two-day bird flu conference earlier this week sponsored by the U.N. health body.

No vaccine for the H5N1 virus has been produced yet, but scientists are confident they will develop one in future.

However, the virus has now been shown to mutate like seasonal flu viruses that require new vaccines every year. "We are going to have to come to the realization that these viruses are genetically variable," Perdue said. "The vaccines that we have predicted to be protective today may not be protective a year from now."

The two most effective anti-viral drugs currently in use are also in danger of losing their potency, according to influenza experts.

"We know from surveillance studies and from hospital clinical studies that resistance to the two primary anti-viral drugs, the Tamiflu and Amantadine drugs, have already occurred," Perdue said.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
09/28/06 13:59 EDT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian_J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 11:09am
If you are suggesting popping Oscillo at the first sign of an H5N1 infection, I think you are seriously deluded. The article you quote states that "The two most effective anti-viral drugs currently in use are also in danger of losing their potency[.]" Well, even if they were to lose 98% of their potency, that would be better than homeopathy.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that homeopathy alters the course of serious, life-threatening illness? Have any remedies for bird flu been "proven" and added to the homeopathic materia medica? I imagine not, as to administer a substance causing symptoms similar to bird flu would be quite dangerous. The only studies showing benefit to homeopathy that I have seen suggest that it may have a small effect on the symptoms of mildly irritating conditions.

 If you wish to rely on homeopathy as treatment for bird flu, that's your prerogative. But I would urge you to reevaluate your position.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 4:48pm
First of all: This article was from WebMD. Not me, nor any homeopath. This is their words. This is their system of healing. This is what they know to be true as they look into the future. Go ahead and log on. it was just on yesterday. I'm sure it will still be on there. They have an understanding of what they are dealing with.


'Popping Oscillo". Disease is a formidable opponent. It is not wise to think of 'Popping' any thing. And we have more than Oscillo. to use. Oscillo would probably not even be my first choice. This thinking is a sign that you do not understand homeopathy. That's fine, you haven't sat for 4 years to get the training needed to understand what you are missing here.

Classical homeopathic school is 4 years of mind bending challenges. We don't pop any thing. Most people would call us stingy with our remedies because we are careful when we hand them out. We study, we think, we do not throw remedies at any thing. Remedies are to be respected. So is the core theory of how it works. Do not triffle with this.

"Deluded" not the case. More informed that you even understand. You evidently have never experienced constitutional applications. I am not urging you to try it however. All we ask is for people to give it a fair shot. It doesn't look like you want to even look outside the western system for something else.

Next: Re: anti-virals. A dead end. The virus desires to survive. It wil run circles around Tamiflu.

Next: 'That would be better than homeopathy'.   Not really because now not only does the body have the virus to deal with it has to cope with another drug. One problem has become 2.

Next: Evidence? How about case after case- all over the world, for hundreds of years now. We also have pages and pages of testimony from doctors in 1918 flu. It did work and it was a serious life threatening illness. This happens every day all over the world.

Next: Bird flu remedies'have been proven', Absolutly. and have been for decades now. Any remedy is potential healing for someone.

Next: "I imagne not, as to administer a substance cause symptoms similar to bird flu would be quite dangerous." The remedies used in the 1918 flu that were the most effective were remedies made from vines. Remedies come from plants, seeds, roots, leaves, flowers, animal milk, minerals, etc, Oscill is just one. And most of these have provings. Provings go on all the time. Just this spring I was a prover for a new bird remedy. "Dangerous" what does that mean?

Germs mutate, change, that is the problem with vaccines. We have a totally different way of looking at this problem. We look at the individuals response to the disease and pick a remedy that will strengthen them. MD's know not everyone that has a flu has the same symptom complex. That is where homeopathy excels.

"Studies" The problem with studies is that they refuse to take into account our core theory. They expect homeopathy to work when they ignore it's rules. And it has rules.    Of course all you see is "small effects on mildly irritating conditions." That's because you don't see what we see. You don't work with remedies the way we work with them.

Look, there aren't alot of good options out there if it gets as bad as everyone says it will. Homeopaths were fearless back then, because they understood something about how the human body works that is different from every thing else. After working with other healing options for 25 years, this one is unique.   

I don't understand. If you were a health nut, why have you made up your mind on this? Are you a medical student?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LotusLady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2006 at 7:45am
To Carver Homeopath and anyone else who finds Brian's comments completely unenlightened and ignorant:
 
People often say, "I'll believe it when I see it."  Brian has in essence said that, because he is looking for studies, etc.  There are many, many studies that have shown the efficacy of homeopathy that have been published is respected medical journals, including the Lancet.  Indeed, there was a recent study published in a European medical journal conducted by German MD's on the efficacy of potentized Kali BiChromium with people who have sticky mucus in their chest.  The results were astounding!  I am trying to do this on the fly and haven't the time to get the exact reference, but will check in with it later. What is especially important about this study, is that this mucus is often an influenza symptom. People just say there aren't any studies to prove anything because it lets them off the hook.  In fact there are hundreds. 
 
In stead of saying "I'll believe it when I see it," consider instead that most people really operate under the following:  "I'll see it when I believe it."  This isn't just true for homeopathy, but everything in life. 
 
So, Carver Homeopath, I think Brian needs a remedy under the symptom, Mind, Positiveness.  This does NOT mean he has a sunny outlook on life.  It means he thinks he's always right and is not open to others suggestions.  Last I checked, there were 45 different remedies in there.  There is also one called Mind, Contradiction, Disposition to.  Many others as well.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LotusLady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2006 at 7:50am
If anyone would like to read the article which reported the success of homeopathy in the 1918 flu pandemic it is available here.  This page begins with a synopsis and also gives a link to a PDF file of the original. 
 
 
The saddest thing is all the people who died needlessly because doctors were strong armed into not doing homeopathy.  Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerSnap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2006 at 7:16pm
Brian, it is clear that homeopathy is not for you.  That's fine, you would not feel comfortable with it and don't have the incentive to do the studying necessary to using it safely and effectively.  However, homeopathy can easily be incorporated in whatever other h5n1 treatment regime without giving up anything, so no need to "reevaluate".
 
For those who might want to consider homeopathy for h5n1, now is the time to learn how to use it.  Treatment of chronic problems (like eczema) is beyond the ability of the layperson, but not many first aid and acute situations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian_J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 11:48am
Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

First of all: This article was from WebMD. Not me, nor any homeopath. This is their words. This is their system of healing. This is what they know to be true as they look into the future. Go ahead and log on. it was just on yesterday. I'm sure it will still be on there. They have an understanding of what they are dealing with.
I wasn't questioning the WebMD article in any way. In fact, if you follow my comments, you'll find that I made no negative comment about the article and

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

'Popping Oscillo". Disease is a formidable
opponent. It is not wise to think of 'Popping' any thing. And we have more than Oscillo. to use. Oscillo would probably not even be my first choice. This thinking is a sign that you do not understand homeopathy. That's fine, you haven't sat for 4 years to get the training needed to understand what you are missing here.
Okay, I agree that disease is formidable, and avian flu even more so. It is true that I haven't sat for 4 years to become a homeopath.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

Classical homeopathic school is 4 years of mind bending challenges. We don't pop any thing. Most people would call us stingy with our remedies because we are careful when we hand them out. We study, we think, we do not throw remedies at any thing. Remedies are to be respected. So is the core theory of how it works. Do not triffle with this.
Why so careful with the remedies? Aren't they inherently completely safe? Also, are you seriously suggesting that I should not "trifle" (i.e. question) the core theory of homeopathy? That makes you come off as a dogmatic zealot. Not questioning a theory is not the scientific method.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

"Deluded" not the case. More informed that you even understand. You evidently have never experienced constitutional applications. I am not urging you to try it however. All we ask is for people to give it a fair shot. It doesn't look like you want to even look outside the western system for something else.
I have in fact been treated by a trained homeopath, and I am open to use of homeopathy, if people choose to, where appropriate. Muscle pain, headaches, colds, yes. Life-threatening illnesses, no. The problem with your "constitutional" remedies that have a system of vague superstitious symptoms associated with them is that there will be no homeopaths to determine the properly aligned remedy in the event of a pandemic. As you point out, symptoms vary from person to person. Have you "proven" any remedies for avian flu? If not, then how will you know which to use?

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

Next: Re: anti-virals. A dead end. The virus desires to survive. It wil run circles around Tamiflu.
You present no evidence that homeopathy will be effective against H5N1 so we can reasonably assume that Tamiflu will be more effective.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

Next: 'That would be better than homeopathy'.   Not really because now not only does the body have the virus to deal with it has to cope with another drug. One problem has become 2.
Homeopathy will shine here, if you don't want to make the body cope with anything else, because homeopathy will introduce nil into the physiology.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

Next: Bird flu remedies'have been proven',
Absolutly. and have been for decades now. Any remedy is potential healing for someone.
What I should point out to those uninitiated into the jargon of homeopathy is that "proving" is not anything near to what you think this word means. Note that scientists generally do not use the word "proven."

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

"Dangerous" what does that mean?
Dangerous in the sense that giving a sugar pill to someone with a severe viral infection will do nothing for them and they will die. This is extremely unethical.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath carverhomeopath wrote:

"Studies" The problem with studies is that they refuse to take into account our core theory. They expect homeopathy to work when they ignore it's rules.
A study does not have to accept a theory or a system of belief. A study uses the scientific method to test a theory.

Originally posted by LotusLady LotusLady wrote:

People often say, "I'll believe it when I see it."  Brian has in essence said that, because he is looking for studies, etc.  There are many, many studies that have shown the efficacy of homeopathy that have been published is respected medical journals, including the Lancet.  Indeed, there was a recent study published in a European medical journal conducted by German MD's on the efficacy of potentized Kali BiChromium with people who have sticky mucus in their chest.  The results were astounding!
That's fine and dandy, but can you please point me to the studies with regards to H5N1?
 
Originally posted by LotusLady LotusLady wrote:

In stead of saying "I'll believe it when I see it," consider instead that most people really operate under the following:  "I'll see it when I believe it."  This isn't just true for homeopathy, but everything in life.
I'm open to homeopathy, just not in cases where it may do more harm than good.
 
The fact that you link to an article about homeopathy in the 1918 pandemic tells us little about homeopathy's effectiveness, as there were not a wealth of effective treatments back then. Aspirin, which according to your article was used, is known to deplete ascorbate which may have hastened death. I must restate my original question:

Do you or any other homeopathic enthusiast have absolutely any evidence that homeopathic preparations will have any efficacy whatsoever against H5N1 viral influenza?

In the absence of such evidence we must consider homeopathy an adjunctive and/or palliative treatment at best-- to use it as sole treatment is madness and extremely medically unethical.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GingerSnap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2006 at 7:17pm
Homeopathic remedies are not inherently completely safe.  They can be abused.  They can cause aggravations and suppressions.  Especially for chronic conditions.
 
I do intend to also take herbal anti-virals, but I would never consider homeopathy to be "palliative treatment at best".  More likely for the flu it would either work or it wouldn't if taken in time.  In the event of a pandemic, the genus epidemicus will be known, taking away most of the guess work about what remedy to take.  I can also call my homeopath and find out what has been working for her (in case there is local variation).  Nothing unethical about any of that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2006 at 6:46am
Originally posted by carverhomeopath

Classical homeopathic school is 4 years of mind bending challenges. We don't pop any thing. Most people would call us stingy with our remedies because we are careful when we hand them out. We study, we think, we do not throw remedies at any thing. Remedies are to be respected. So is the core theory of how it works. Do not triffle with this.
Why so careful with the remedies? Aren't they inherently completely safe? Also, are you seriously suggesting that I should not "trifle" (i.e. question) the core theory of homeopathy? That makes you come off as a dogmatic zealot. Not questioning a theory is not the scientific method.

!!!!! JUST A MINUTE HERE! WHEN I SAID TRIFILING WITH REMEDIES THE TOPIC ON THE TABLE WAS THROWING DOZENS OFREMEDIES AT A PROBLEM. THE TOPIC WAS NOT THE THEORY.

   AS FAR AS UNDERSTANDING CORE THEORY OF HOW IT WORKS, WHO DOES NOT HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW SOMETHING WORKS? DOES AN AUTO MECHANIC GO TO COOKING SCHOOL TO LEARN HOW TO FIX A CAR!?!

SCIENTIFIC THEORY REFUSES TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION ONE OF OUR MAJOR LAWS,THESE LAWS ARE NOT JUST LITTLE FAIRY TALES WE MAKE UP. HAHNEMAN SPENT 12 YEARS TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT. WHEN HE UNDERSTOOD THESE MAJOR PIECES, IT CLICKED.

AS FAR AS BEING CAREFUL ABOUT HANDING OUT REMEDIES... I CAN NOT BELIEVE I HAVE TO SAY THIS.... WE HAVE TO CONSIDER TIME, AGE, HOW THREATENING IS THIS ILLNESS, WHERE IS THIS PERSON IN THE STAGE OF THEIR ILLNESS, AND THIS IS DONE, ONE AT A TIME.

YOU SEEM TO HAVE THIS NOTION THAT WE FORCE SOMEONE INTO OUR OFFICE AT GUNPOINT. AS FAR AS I KNOW, PEOPLE ARE FREE TO GO WHERE THEY WANT TO.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath

"Deluded" not the case. More informed that you even understand. You evidently have never experienced constitutional applications. I am not urging you to try it however. All we ask is for people to give it a fair shot. It doesn't look like you want to even look outside the western system for something else.
I have in fact been treated by a trained homeopath, and I am open to use of homeopathy, if people choose to, where appropriate. Muscle pain, headaches, colds, yes. Life-threatening illnesses, no. The problem with your "constitutional" remedies that have a system of vague superstitious symptoms associated with them is that there will be no homeopaths to determine the properly aligned remedy in the event of a pandemic. As you point out, symptoms vary from person to person. Have you "proven" any remedies for avian flu? If not, then how will you know which to use?

LIFE THREATEINING???? HOW ABOUT MALIGNANT MELANOMA? LIFE THREATENING ENOUGH FOR YOU? HOW ABOUT A CHOLESTEATOM IN A CHILDS EAR? HOW ABOUT THAT ONE?    THIS ONE IS NEAR AND DEAR TO ME BECAUSE IT IS MY OWN SON WHO HAD THIS TUMOR IN HIS EAR. HOW BOUT THAT? AUTISM?

"PROVEN ON AVIAN FLU" DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WILL OPEN THE VAULTS AT THE CDC AND GIVE US ACCESS TO THE VIRUS?

THE TERM "PROVING' IS THE SYSTEM OF INTRODUCING A NEW REMEDY TO THE MATERIA MEDICA. MOST PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THEY DO DRUG TRIALS ON HUMANS. EVIDENTLY WE ARE OK WITH THAT. WHY IS OURS VIEWED WITH SUCH DISDAIN?

WE HAVE REMEDIES THAT WERE EFFECTIVE WITH THE 1918 VARIETY AND ALL SORTS OF ILLNESSES BEFORE THAT AND AFTER THAT. WE USE THEM ALL THE TIME, IN COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD!

Originally posted by carverhomeopath

Next: Re: anti-virals. A dead end. The virus desires to survive. It wil run circles around Tamiflu.
You present no evidence that homeopathy will be effective against H5N1 so we can reasonably assume that Tamiflu will be more effective.

TAMIFLU IS NOTHING, NADA NOT EFFECTIVE. THEY KNOW THAT ALREADY.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath

Next: 'That would be better than homeopathy'.   Not really because now not only does the body have the virus to deal with it has to cope with another drug. One problem has become 2.
Homeopathy will shine here, if you don't want to make the body cope with anything else, because homeopathy will introduce nil into the physiology.

THEN HOW DO YOU POSSIBLLY EXPLAIN WHAT WE SEE EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR, AGAIN, ALL OVER THE WORLD.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath

Next: Bird flu remedies'have been proven',
Absolutly. and have been for decades now. Any remedy is potential healing for someone.
What I should point out to those uninitiated into the jargon of homeopathy is that "proving" is not anything near to what you think this word means. Note that scientists generally do not use the word "proven."

THEY DON'T USE THAT WORD BECAUSE THEY FUNCTION IN A DIFFERENT WORLD. WE ARE TALKING APPLES AND ORANGES HERE. I HAVE BEEN IN THE ALTERNATIVE HEATH FIELD FOR 25 YEARS. WHEN I STARTED SCHOOL I ACTUALLY HOPED THAT THIS WOULD GIVE ME A BIT OF A HEAD START. IT DID NOT. IT WAS JUST AS MIND BENDING FOR ME AS IT WAS FOR THE FORMER ACCOUNTANTS, THE MD'S, THE NURSES, THE HOMEMAKERS ETC IN OUR CLASS.

Originally posted by carverhomeopath

"Dangerous" what does that mean?
Dangerous in the sense that giving a sugar pill to someone with a severe viral infection will do nothing for them and they will die. This is extremely unethical.

HOW DO I ANSWER THIS?   ARE THE WESTERN DOCS CONSIDERED 'UNETHICAL' BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER?

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THIS BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE THINKING THAT WE IMPRISON ALL CLIENTS IN OUR OFFICES, NEVER ALLOWING THEM TO SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY. HOW DO YOU HAVE THE NOTION THAT WE ARE THAT.... STUPID?!?!




Originally posted by carverhomeopath

"Studies" The problem with studies is that they refuse to take into account our core theory. They expect homeopathy to work when they ignore it's rules.
A study does not have to accept a theory or a system of belief. A study uses the scientific method to test a theory.

A 'WESTERN STUDY' DEMANDS THAT WE COMPLETELY SET ASIDE SOME OF THE KEY PIECES THAT MAKE IT WORK. HOW CAN THAT BE SO OFFENSIVE? DO WE DEMAND THAT DETROIT PUT OUT A CAR WITH NO WHEELS?

I DO NOT HAVE TIME TO CONSOLIDATE 4 YEARS INTO ONE LINE TO CLARIFY THIS. THE 'WESTERN STUDY' LITERALLY PULLS OUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES IT WORK.

Originally posted by LotusLady

People often say, "I'll believe it when I see it." Brian has in essence said that, because he is looking for studies, etc. There are many, many studies that have shown the efficacy of homeopathy that have been published is respected medical journals, including the Lancet. Indeed, there was a recent study published in a European medical journal conducted by German MD's on the efficacy of potentized Kali BiChromium with people who have sticky mucus in their chest. The results were astounding!
That's fine and dandy, but can you please point me to the studies with regards to H5N1?

AGAIN, ARE THEY GOING TO GIVE US ACCESS TO THE VAILT? THERE IS NO WAY TO PLEASE YOU. NO WAY.

Originally posted by LotusLady

In stead of saying "I'll believe it when I see it," consider instead that most people really operate under the following: "I'll see it when I believe it." This isn't just true for homeopathy, but everything in life.
I'm open to homeopathy, just not in cases where it may do more harm than good.

WHERE DID YOU GO TO GET THIS ABILITY TO HAVE THIS DEGREE OF HIND SIGHT? I WANT TO GO GET SOME. I COULD REALLY USE SOME.

The fact that you link to an article about homeopathy in the 1918 pandemic tells us little about homeopathy's effectiveness, as there were not a wealth of effective treatments back then. Aspirin, which according to your article was used, is known to deplete ascorbate which may have hastened death. I must restate my original question:

Do you or any other homeopathic enthusiast have absolutely any evidence that homeopathic preparations will have any efficacy whatsoever against H5N1 viral influenza?

In the absence of such evidence we must consider homeopathy an adjunctive and/or palliative treatment at best-- to use it as sole treatment is madness and extremely medically unethical.

I GIVE UP. AFTER ALL THIS..... I JUST GIVE UP.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 02 2006 at 6:39pm
carverhomeopath - I read throught this thread but not all the way. I got enough to understand why you would be upset. I hope however you'll come back and share. I'm a believer in the homeopathic approach to healing. I spent twenty years in the western medicine cycle of so called treatment, with crohns, lupus, r athritis, high blood pressure and a bunch of other minor irritant diseases. I got off the 'ride' when I took my health into my own hands and found real answers, I've been well now for five years. No meds, no hoops to jump through, just simple foods.
Anyway, I hope you'll change your mind about giving up on this site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tazman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2006 at 3:49pm
    Where can I buy some of the Homeopathic medicine used in 1918?
Email me your favorite links:My Email
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LotusLady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2006 at 7:46pm
YOu can get Gelsemium 30C at most food coops, Whole Foods and many, many websites that sell homeopathic remedies.  However, if you have read the rest of the forum, you would know that having it on hand is a good thing, but we have no way of knowing what the remedy will be until it mutates and starts being passed from human to human. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carverhomeopath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2007 at 9:28pm
We got a real case from a survivor of bird flu. She did a good job of detailing what she felt. It looks like it started out with a Gels. and as it moved deeper, it moved into a Camphora state.

This is good to read this because we will become aware of how this progresses.
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      Hi Paul:
    
    I have been on this site before i ran into you. I was so surprised to see your name. I feel really good that you are here with this wonderful group. Albert does a great job......I do not post too often but I always am lurking.   I just know you will have so much information to pass on to all of us. People, always look for Paulx54 posts, you will not be disappointed.

Your friend
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