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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic

HYPOTHESIS: H1N1 Virus Mutated away from Vaccine?

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The Mountains Voice View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 31 2009 at 12:21am
  < name=GENERATOR ="MS 8.00.6001.18828">

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TO GLOBAL MEDIA:
(Being copied to over 1000 NIH, CDC, WHO, FLU BLOGGERS, and MEDIA REPORTERS & PERSONNEL)

Virus has Mutated away from Vaccine

Officials are suddenly openly talking about "what if" the virus mutates.  Seeing what we have seen out of this crowd the past 5 months, this smacks of setting us up for bad news.  They would not speak a Peep about mutation if it hadn't already happened.  Consider the following and add it all up.
 
1) Sebellius is making statements like..... <<If the virus mutates, "the vaccination will give a much more significant immune response to whatever comes next,">>  That's a Setup!!!
 
2) Homeland Security Chair made statements  << http://thehill.com/homenews/house/65305-homeland-security-chairman-not-prepared-for-h1n1-uptick>>in which referenced mutation 4 times.  Awful lot of sudden emphasis on mutation.
 
3) President Obama suddenly issues National Emergency.  Based on the data they have been officially releasing - there's no justification for this - unless they know something we don't.
 
4) Vaccine delivery isn't slightly off - it's SUDDENLY WAY OFF! ...and it is taking governments by surprise!
 
5) You put all this together, with the comments from the Kenyan WHO official in the following story - http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/Kenyanews/Swine-flu-vaccines-discarded-6241.html  (read the story - this WHO official lets slip that they discarded all of the first vaccine batch duQuestione to mutation fears), and you start thinking of the following realistic probability:
 
THE VIRUS HAS MUTATED AWAY FROM THE VACCINE and the reason for the sudden & unexpected vaccine delivery interuption is that they scrapped what they had, and restarted from partial scratch.  Bet you within 3 weeks this will become apparent in hindsite.  The virus has mutated, and it has mutated towards greater lethality, and it has mutated away from the vaccine.  And the only thing I know could help is Vitamin D - and the whole world, flublogia & media & Health Officials included is silent on the matter.  The CDC has studies backing this up - showing relationary Vitamin D levels in severe & mortality cases, and have refused to release them.  They are silent as to this, as it hinders their attempts to sell the public on a useless vaccine...... and people will die because of their incompetence.
 
- The Mountains Voice
        October 31, 2009
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote waenderer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 12:45am
where is the link that says the virus HAS mutated,,as it says in your titel ?
otherwise the titel is misleading....
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The Mountains Voice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Mountains Voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 7:30am
In that link it quotes,

"The World Health Organisation (WHO) says that scientists have discarded a first set of vaccines that had been developed for the prevention of H1N1 influenza virus commonly known as swine flu.  WHO Country Director Dr David Okello said on Friday that this was because of the dilemma there was a possibility of the highly contagious virus mutating into a more severe form."
 
You don't discard vaccine because it MIGHT mutate.  Folks, there is a scince called "POLITICAL SCIENCE" - it is the study of politics, and human behavior in politics.  And all science begins with hypothesis, supported by facts.  Perhaps I should retitle the thread - HYPOTHESIS: H1N1 Virus has Mutated Away from Vaccine.  Because from a political science perspective, the facts are clearly adding up that they are lying, spinning, and setting the public up for bad news.
 
And I do notice from ALL the replies (but one) from everything I have sent out to thousands, that there was one very very correct statement in the release, "And the only thing I know could help is Vitamin D - and the whole world, flublogia & media & Health Officials included is silent on the matter.  The CDC has studies backing this up - showing relationary Vitamin D levels in severe & mortality cases, and have refused to release them.  They are silent as to this, as it hinders their attempts to sell the public on a useless vaccine"
 
No one has replied with a peep of concern.  And no one asks the questions that matter.
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Technologist View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technologist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 7:38am
-50 for False Headlines
-50 for a False Hypothesis
Final Grade = 0
----------------------
Fail...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 7:46am
He said if the virus mutated, the people who are developing the vaccine would have to advance their technologies to address the problem.
From the article above.
 
Does not say anthing about the virus mutating, says IF. Your title is misleading. Both articles say IF. We have all known all along there is always an IF, however until it there is evidence that it has mutated I would like to suggest that you change the title of your thread, so as not to alarm new readers.  Most of us that have been here for awhile will read this and take it for what it is, but a new person might not and it's not necessary to alarm someone for no reason. Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 7:55am

The Mountains Voice, your title has been edited as it is incorrect. You were still online when I gave you the opportunity to change it and you did not see the statement asking you to change the title or chose not to. Either way, please do not post alarming statements that are untrue. Thanks!

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H1N1PanFlu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H1N1PanFlu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 8:04am
The World Health Organisation (WHO) says that scientists have discarded a first set of vaccines that had been developed for the prevention of H1N1 influenza virus commonly known as swine flu.

He has a point. Why would they discard original vaccine. It makes no sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H1N1PanFlu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 8:05am
Now youre the teacher and the bully Technologist. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technologist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 8:09am
Originally posted by H1N1PanFlu H1N1PanFlu wrote:

Now youre the teacher and the bully Technologist. 


The mean Teacher just placed a dunce cap on H1N1PanFlu's head
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Penham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 8:12am
Originally posted by H1N1PanFlu H1N1PanFlu wrote:

The World Health Organisation (WHO) says that scientists have discarded a first set of vaccines that had been developed for the prevention of H1N1 influenza virus commonly known as swine flu.

He has a point. Why would they discard original vaccine. It makes no sense.
 
It makes no sense. They are still giving out the original vaccine EVERYWHERE else, except here?  I would question the validity of the writer. Maybe something happened to the vaccine and it got damaged? Just seems as though there is "something" missing. Why destroy the vaccine when they are using it everywhere else? Just send it elsewhere? Something isn't right with the article.
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The Mountains Voice View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Mountains Voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 8:33am
Originally posted by Penham Penham wrote:

 
It makes no sense. They are still giving out the original vaccine EVERYWHERE else, except here?  I would question the validity of the writer. Maybe something happened to the vaccine and it got damaged? Just seems as though there is "something" missing. Why destroy the vaccine when they are using it everywhere else? Just send it elsewhere? Something isn't right with the article.
No Penham, it just makes no sense to YOU (and some others).  You have to take it ALL in context - then it makes perfect sense.  Within the week that that minor press release was made ....about destroyed vaccine..., there have been a series of quite significant changes in language from our public officials. 
 
It seems to me that the only one rushing to make a judgement is YOU.  YOU have unilaterally decided that it doesn't fit into your comfortable blind trust of official guiding us, and so you do the easiest thing... you deny any reasonable possibilities to the contrary.
 
Like Helen Branswell (Canadian Post), Robert Bazell (NBC news), Miriam Falco (CNN Medical News), Donald McNeal (New York Times), Tom Regan (WSB TV Atlanta), Mike Stobbe (AP), Marilyn Serafini (National Journal), Joanne Silberner (NPR), Steven Smith (Boston globe), Rob Stein (Washington Post) and others - you simply become a media lapdog for whatever the CDC wants to say, regardless of the truth, and without regard for trying to seek the truth.
 
Walter Cronkite is dead.  And so is trust & truth in media. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technologist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 8:35am
I started this thread 4 days ago but now people on the web are now twisting the original story.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government "may" end up throwing away unused doses of swine flu vaccine if people cannot get it soon enough, the director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Tuesday.


Mary seemed to have the best reasons why they might toss some of the vaccine. Plus some of the vaccines may expire, or have reduced effectiveness if not used quick enough or if they were improperly stored or transported in the wrong conditions.

http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25827


Originally posted by Mary008 Mary008 wrote:



hi... I think some of the unused is the "experimental" stuff...   New cell lines... Insect cells...


Non egg types....   adjuvanted / multi dose vials ..... some nano tech. is being used now...


have to delve to be specific.   CDC alluded to the new 21st Century Technology we need to


adopt.



............................................



soon enough...




see the various scenarios decribed for vaccinating the population at...


Now At Level 6 .



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government may end up throwing away unused doses of swine flu vaccine if people cannot get it soon enough, the director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Tuesday.



...........................
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Mountains Voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Technologist Technologist wrote:

I started this thread 4 days ago but now people on the web are now twisting the original story.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government "may" end up throwing away unused doses of swine flu vaccine if people cannot get it soon enough, the director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Tuesday. 
It seems you will go to great lengths to avoid looking at what was said.  1st of all - the story predates your post by several dates, so no one is following your lead, or twisting what you are saying.
 
Let's look at this again.....
 
NAIROBI, Kenya, Oct 23 - The World Health Organisation (WHO) says that scientists have discarded a first set of vaccines that had been developed for the prevention of H1N1 influenza virus commonly known as swine flu.

WHO Country Director Dr David Okello said on Friday that this was because of the dilemma there was a possibility of the highly contagious virus mutating into a more severe form.
 
It doesn't say anything about old unused vaccines.  That is a separate issue.  Only one trying to twist facts off topic is you.  Stick to the facts of the quote.  Stick to the supporting quotes from public officials that have suddenly changed dramatically since that quote was made.  Try and discuss the hypothesis on it's merits, without throwing in unrelated discussion, and trying to twist it into a direction that solely serves what you WANT to believe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Mountains Voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 9:10am
PS.... it is probably worth pointing out the other important statement in that article.....
 
“The scientists have moved to the second level because of the dilemma we are all facing,” Dr Okello said.
It's done. They've done it.  They have changed something.  What this probably means is that all vaccine manufacturing went through a sudden overhaul, in which a more recent genetic variation replaced the original seed strain.  Why is this, when combined with all the recent changes in language from officials - so hard for people to believe?  It's a pretty simple conclusion, and there is a direct quote from a WHO official.  Is it that hard to believe that they'd spin this for a while, start us off low with sudden discussion of "IF" the virus mutates.  Get the unwashed masses slowly warmed up to the idea?
 
Something changed.  I don't have time to post all the various changes in spread and mortality rates that are occurring in news media stories all over the globe.  They are there is you want to look.  We've even got clear statements from CDC that there have been isolated MANY isolated cases of Tamiflu resistant mutation. Is it so hard to believe that with this GIANT petri dish out there - that this has't happened, they don't know about it, they've taken steps to adjust with the vaccine, that those steps have changed teh timelines, and that they don't want to drop that bombshell on an unexpecting public?
 
Is this REALLY that far of a stretch?
But the biggest question of all is still undiscussed.  Why won't they share the data on Vitamin D Correlations?  Why isn't anyone asking?  The tools in the toolbelt to fight this thing are quickly evaporating:  Tamifflu resistace, antigenic drift - why wouldn't a simple release of data be issued?  Data that indicates that something you can simply pick up at Wal-mart could dramatically reduce severity of infection, reduce the spread, and decrease fatalities.  It's something at least.
 
Ask the CDC for the data.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technologist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 9:12am
The Mountains Voice, The Admin just edited your false title of this thread and you just modified it back again?

Are you related to Med?

You're suppressing my Data! LOL


Quote: From The************
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Summary: We're going to put the Word of God in people's faces. We're going to do it on Billboards in the cities and on the Highways. And they won't be able to turn the channel, switch the station or close the book... because it's going to be there. And we're going to put up 10,000 of these billboards. If you want to see what the first 1000 are going to look like then visit the Advertising Home page. It's got a picture of the first design.

-snip-

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-snip-

Mission: To level the playing field on the Internet. I've submitted a Provisional Application for Patent that WILL stand. It's a new concept that I haven't heard in any related form ever before. I've researched it and it is legitimate.

A limited conceptual overview is detailed in these Business Sections.

If you want the beat-you-over-the-head version, please read the following before you begin: BIG QUESTION. If you are in the Stock World or in "Big Business" I think you'll get your interest piqued.

Conclusion: I've coined our process the "Missing Link" of Internet Evolution. If it is all that professional feedback sugests - then we've just totally redefined the way business will be done on the Internet - and in the "real world" in general.

Oh, and I suggest that some of the Fortune 500's, stock market guru's, and all you other "Experts" read this... Business Disclaimer."


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Mountains Voice, Say hi to Med for me :)

http:**************
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote happy camper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 9:19am
Very Interesting discussion: Does Mary have any articles that support her supposition that the vaccine might expire, improperly stored ect... why was the national emergency declared out of the blue, did the death rate increase?
As is evident in the current national heath debated the Goverment officials can not be trusted to tell the truth.

At least The Mountain has included a quaote to support the conclusion where as Technologist is quote Mary and I have not seen any support for her conclusion in the news.
awaiting the return of the creator
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Mountains Voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 9:23am
You missed quite a bit.  You missed the 10's of thousands of emails and faxes and letters I sent in the 4 months prior to 9/11.  They laughed then.  You laugh and mock now.  It happened.  It will happen.
 
And much more I have said as well.  And much more I will say.  And events will continue to unfold.  
 
And still you will not do such a simple thing as ask for the data.  What harm is it to ask the CDC for the data?  If the data is there - it has it's own voice.  If they say it is not there - then you will have the CDC on record. Put the CDC on record.  This is the guidance i am giving you.
 
It is your choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loribearme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 9:35am
I have to agree with The Mountains Voice....
 
There are way too many unanswered questions that make it certain that they are not being honest....the flu was made in a lab, they called it a novel virus made up from pig, human and bird and someone in Baxter pharm company got caught mixing live bird flu virus but no one followed up on that....and the adjuvants squalene and the list continues....
 
facts are facts folks.....vitamin d is very good at fighting flu and there is scientific evidence to support that so why isn't our media telling us this ?   BECAUSE THEY WANT US TO GET SICK AND DIE!   THEY WANT TO KILL OFF  A GREAT NUMBER OF THE WORLD POPULATION
 
why?  so they can CONTROL the rest that are left...easier to force us to take rf id chips so they can then do away with paper money - they gave cities underground that they do not talk about....why is that?   The FEMA camps are another sign ....looks too much like NAZI and by the way have you got the knife out of your back yet?
 
Folks,  its time to prepare for martial law and forced vaccines....its coming.....look at the news in the Ukraine region....the mutated flu is upon us...its only a matter of time!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technologist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 9:36am
Originally posted by The Mountains Voice The Mountains Voice wrote:

You missed quite a bit. You missed the 10's of thousands of emails and faxes and letters I sent in the 4 months prior to 9/11. They laughed then. You laugh and mock now. It happened. It will happen.


You sent out Tens of Thousands of Emails, Faxes and Letters in 4 months predicting 9/11? Did God tell you to do that? Otherwise did you have inside information? Can you Fly a Plane?

Not 10,000 but tens of thousands...

That's at least 1,167 letters per week. Did you do that at the same time you put up those 10,000 Billboards in the cities and on the Highways. Stuffing the Word of God in people's faces.

ROTFL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Mountains Voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 31 2009 at 9:57am
Originally posted by Loribearme Loribearme wrote:

facts are facts folks.....vitamin d is very good at fighting flu and there is scientific evidence to support that so why isn't our media telling us this ?   BECAUSE THEY WANT US TO GET SICK AND DIE!   THEY WANT TO KILL OFF  A GREAT NUMBER OF THE WORLD POPULATION
As to the above.... I will neither agree nor disagree with the CAP PART.  But I will say that Vitamin D is openly accessible.  It is not a big profit item controlled by corporate pharmaceuticals.
 
I will not provide any hypothesis for the following facts, but will simply ask you to think of the following......
 
Here's an example of how high public officials are tied to big pharma.  Donald Runsfield sits on the Board for the company that manufactures Tamiflu.  Almost 1 Billion doses of Tamiflu were ordered by national stockpiles, paid for as part of Flu Preparedness Plans.  It was touted almost as a silver bullet.  Now, when it is finally needed, it languishes in warehouses.  They have hundreds of millions of doses, and they give the excuse that if they use it - it might allow the virus to mutate into resistance.  Isn't that the same as if the Virus already had the resistance? The end result is that we paid billions for something not being used to any great extent - but was touted at the highest levels.
 
Vaccine is no different.  They don't make the stuff for free.  Is it hard to believe that if they already had millions of doses that didn't fit current or expected virus antogenic drift - that they wouldn't still try and sell it off?  When Seberius suddenly starts adding the following phrase into her talks, doesn't it make you wonder why?
 
"If the virus mutates, the vaccination will give a much more significant immune response to whatever comes next"
 
She's focused like a laser on selling vaccine.  They've done NOTHING except to talk about vaccine and handwashing.  Is that a reasonable response action to what is happening?
 
This is about corporations.  Look hard enough and you might find a beast.
 
We have limited tools.  ASK FOR THE DATA.  Allow the people to protect themselves to the extent they are able.  You will be on your own at some point.
 
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