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Immigration Problem (Hot--Potato)

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Mahshadin View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 23 2010 at 1:54pm
A%20Border%20Patrol%20officer%20inspects%20vehicles%20this%20week%20at%20a%20checkpoint%20in%20Tombstone,%20Arizona,%20near%20the%20Mexican%20border.
A Border Patrol officer inspects vehicles this week at a checkpoint in Tombstone, Arizona, near the Mexican border.
 
 
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
(CNN) -- Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed the state's immigration bill into law. It is considered to be among the toughest legislation in the nation.

What does the Arizona law do?

Arizona's law orders immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times and requires police to question people if there's reason to suspect they're in the United States illegally.

It also targets those who hire illegal immigrant laborers or knowingly transport them.

Are other states considering similar legislation?

Michael Hethmon, general counsel for the Immigration Reform Law Institute, helped draft the language of the Arizona bill. Hethmon said lawmakers from four other states have approached him asking for advice on how they can do the same thing where they live. He declined to identify which states, citing attorney-client privilege.

State laws relating to immigration have increased in recent years, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

In 2005, 300 bills were introduced. The next year, that number nearly doubled, and in 2007, more than 1,500 bills were introduced. Another 1,305 were introduced in 2008, and about 1,500 were considered in 2009.

About 15 percent of those were enacted, dealing with issues such as driver's licenses, health and education.

About 1,000 bills have been brought up so far this year.

What do opponents say?

Critics, including immigrant advocates and the American Civil Liberties Union of Arizona, say they are concerned the law will foster racial profiling, arguing that most police officers don't have enough training to look past race while investigating a person's legal status.

Is federal immigration legislation coming?

Democrats tell CNN that if they don't get Republican commitments soon, they likely will push to move a bill without GOP support.

Democratic sources said the chances of passing immigration reform in that scenario this year are slim, but they want to make clear to key constituencies they are at least trying.

President Obama is still pushing for a bill though.

Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina is the only GOP senator on board, but he has told Democrats they will lose his support unless they find another Republican.

Obama recently called Sen. Scott Brown, R-Massachusetts, to try to get him on board, a Brown spokeswoman said.

On Thursday, Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Alabama, said in a statement that during tough economic conditions, Americans are "dubious" about immigration reform.

He said the White House and Congress should not immediately take up the issue -- but instead "take targeted steps to deal with the crisis at the border, increase the usage of the E-Verify program, and enhance prosecutions of employers who knowingly hire illegal workers."

The last immigration reform efforts in Congress were in 2005 when Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, and the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, Brown's predecessor, introduced a bipartisan bill that aimed to implement guest-worker programs and ways for more illegal immigrants to become citizens.

The McCain-Kennedy bill, however, never came up for a vote in the Senate.

Other legislative efforts have failed to gain momentum.

 
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2010 at 1:55pm
What do You think?
 
Right
or
Wrong
 
Keep in mind this is a Border State (Arizona).
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2010 at 7:48pm
Right.

As someone in Law Enforcement I can't tell you how many times I've had run ins with illegals. I've pulled over car loads of people, they're all illegal and hammered drunk driving, and guess what I can do: Nothing. You arrest them and they have no ID, won't say a word
to you, it's nigh impossible to book them, and then you take this guy to county and they just kick them loose rather than deal with the B.S. Now AZ cops don't have to deal with that anymore. Play a stupid game like that, and get shipped back to wherever you came from.

First and foremost, they're already here illegally, breaking our laws, and the police can do nothing to them. Granted they're looking for a better life, but if they expended as much energy making their home countries better as they do trying to cross our borders, they wouldn't have to try to come here in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2010 at 8:42pm
Living in the west I can tell you AZ is RIGHT!!!! Turbo is correct!
Always Be Prepared
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2010 at 10:08pm
Now if I had my way, I wouldn't need to pass rather stupid laws like the one just passed in AZ in the first place.

Were I to make the rules, I'd push through a law that would SEVERELY punish any company that had an illegal on the payrolls. Let's say right around $250,000 per illegal regardless of whether they knowingly hire them or not. Companies would go *FAR* out of their way to ensure they are not hiring them, there'd be zero work here for illegals, and they would self deport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4=laro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 4:39am
Mexico put Oklahoma on their no trade list.  We only wish they would live up to their end of the deal and keep all the illegal drugs in Mexico.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 7:21am
Texas should put Mexico on their "We'll shoot you if you try to cross our border" list and militarize the border.

See how many people try to sneak across when there's a good possibility they'd get shot.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 8:26am

As an Independent, I am actually right of center on this one. Who better to enforce the LAW than Law Enforcement? At the point where Federal enforcement is completely overwhelmed, this just makes sense.

 

I live in ground zero (Arizona) so I have experienced the problem first hand. When I first moved here, the problem was just heating up, and by 02-04 it was out of control. When I arrived here there we not a lot of jobs in the Automotive Computer Design field so I decided to go back to school full time and work part time until I finished. I first tried construction, but quickly found out that this industry was completely overtaken by illegal aliens, with complete complicity of the coprs, companies, and contractors involved. Most of the job sites I visited, which at that time were many (Booming Housing Market) I couldnt even find a person who spoke English. Next I tried the Restaurant business after having grown up in my Fathers Restaurant, wow even worse. There were so many illegal aliens wanting to work that they were working for next to nothing. Anyway the list goes on, and I ended up selling Cell Phones for ATT until I finished school. Once hired shortly after graduation, 2 months on the new job my Dodge Quad Cab was stolen from the parking lot. The police told me they had a good idea who stole it and for what, but there was not a whole lot they could do about it unless they could catch them red handed with the truck. I was told to wait it out, because based on the vehicle stolen it was more than likely being used to transport illegals over the border through the mountains in south Arizona, which they knew where the major drop points were and would keep an eye out for the truck (Desert South of Tuscon). Sure enough 2 weeks later right before my Insurance company was ready to settle, they find the truck in the desert exactly where the police told me they would find it. My baby was thrashed, they ripped out all of the seats to fit more illegals and painted the windows black so no one could see inside. The outside looked like it had been put into a pin ball machine with large boulders. After a month of the Insurance corp trying to fix it instead of totaling it, it was clear it was never going to be the truck I started with. It felt like I was driving a vehicle held together with duck tape (Traded it in shortly after that). The point is, the police knew everything but had no power to do anything other than wait till it was over. In the end my truck was thrashed so some restaurant could get some more 4-5 dollar an hour workers (Nice).

 

All the terms (Racial Profiling) or (Undocumented Workers) are just being used to confuse the issue and create more legislative paralysis.

 

They are Illegal Aliens who intentionally and knowingly broke the laws of our nation, and more than 90% of them are from one part of the world, south of the border (Mexico and Others), so to say you cant look at them or it will be racial profiling is just laughable and attempt to keep looking the other way (Do Nothing). When you break the laws in this country you should expect to be looking over your shoulder and at some point be caught, and that is where we are now. Now that it is time to be caught, they all want to scream bloody murder (Racial Profiling), or I am just an (Undocumented Worker).

 

Obviously the problem is not a simple one because there are Americans Involved. They would not come here if you were not hiring them (Knowingly). And don’t buy this crap that they don’t know, they do know and this is just about one thing (Cheap Labor).

And who pays for the Medical, Education, and other benefits of living in our country

 

We Do (The American Tax Payer). And with the financial mess that we are in (I wont name names) we just can not afford to continue (Business as Usual).

 

If you want to come to this country than you either do it Legally or understand that you will be caught and Deported (Period).

 

And as far as the Corps, Companies, Contractors , Ect (Jail Time). You do not pass go nor do you collect 200 dollars (Straight to jail).

 
Nothing better than a real consequence to stop an illegal behavior. Money is not enough of a deterrent (Obviously).

 

Just my opinions of course.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 10:35am
Heading to Downtown Phoenix this afternoon
 
Should be Interesting
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sjf53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 10:37am
I think Arizona has it right.
 
Arizona is just exercising their "Constitutional" rights as a State's power not being addressed by Washington and the Federal Government. 
 
Tenth Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.  
 
This law  allows for the Federal Law (already on the books) to be enforced by the Arizona State law enforcement agencies.  The Federal government has refused to enforce adequately and consistently the laws of securing our borders.   Governor Jan Brewer has made 5 requests for help to Washington with no results. 
 
Arizona is being very Responsible (not irresponsible) upholding the civil rights of the LEGAL Citizens of their state with this law.
 
No matter where you travel outside the US, if you are not a citizen of that country you are told to carry your legal documents with you at all times.  How is this any different? 
 
When I fly, to prevent identity theft when using my credit cards or write a check, buy liquor, stopped for a traffic violation I am required to provide proof of who I am. 
 
I don't get it........ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL whether you are from Russia, Egypt, Asia, So America, Canada or a European Country.  ILLEGAL is not a Race.  If you are here Illegally you have broken the LAW.
 
Regarding Racial Profiling: Reality Bites......Arizona sits on the border of Mexico, the majority of  ILLEGALS in this State happen to be Hispanic coming from the countries sitting south of this state.  All of which are Hispanic in origin. 
 
In Washington State the Illegal mix is different. Asian, Chinese, Etc......
 
Considering the hugh problems of Illegals with drugs, killings, rapes, kidnappings and fraud, IF you have nothing to hide you should be THANKING the officials for the enforcement of laws in trying to keep you safe.
 
This is not even mentioning the monetary burden ILLEGALS place on the Legal Taxpaying Citizens of the State.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sjf53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2010 at 10:55am
 
 
FAIR - Federation for American Immigration Reform is a great site to educated yourself on this issue.
---------------------------------------------
 

Immigration Issues

This section provides links to Immigration Briefs -- short descriptions of issues -- as well as to our publications that describe issues in depth. The Immigration Briefs provide links to related publications.

 

Topics covered:

Illegal Immigration -- How many, Costs, Crime, Public Health, Social Security, Employment, "Sanctuary," Temporary Protected Status, Attrition, Border control, Mexican government, Cubans, Anchor babies, Diluting citizen's representation.

Legal Immigration -- How many, Legislative options, Naturalization, Chain migration, Dual nationality, Public charge exclusion, Entry paths (Family, Employer, Refugee, Asylum, Lottery).

National Security -- 9/11 Attacks, Loopholes, Secure ID, Entry-Exit record, Policy recommendations, Visa waiver program, NAFTA Highway, North American union.

Labor and Economics -- Job displacement, Labor market, Economy, Welfare, Wages in agriculture, Costs, Employer sanctions, Free trade agreements,

Guest Workers Temporary visa types, High-tech, agricultural workers, unskilled, company transfers.

Population and Environment -- Population growth, Sprawl, Traffic, Fresh water resources.

Societal Issues -- Assimilation, Poverty, Schools, Hate Crimes, Hit-and-run, Brain drain, Revanchism and Aztlan, Non-citizen voting, Opinion polls.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2010 at 12:05am
Originally posted by Mahshadin Mahshadin wrote:

Heading to Downtown Phoenix this afternoon
 
Should be Interesting


+1, and rock on Mahshadin. Good post. (The long one)

Now imagine the frustration the police go through when they're forced to deal with guys they KNOW are breaking numerous laws and there isn't anything they can do about it. All too often the illegals flaunt it in the officer's face. The only reason that the political elites aren't doing anything about the illegal alien issue is because the hispanic vote hinges on who is the most lackadaisical about border control issues. If a politician votes to close the borders and end illegal immigration, they will be quickly voted out of office by the overabundance of hispanics in their district. The prisoners really are running the jail.

Try living illegally in Mexico. If you do it, they will find you and deport your ass at gunpoint. You don't get a nice meal and a busride like the US gives them.

How'd your deal in Phoenix go anyway?
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views. - William F. Buckley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzi3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2010 at 9:45am

At least they are not muslins. And they do know how to work, until they figure out the welfare system. I'm not saying they should come illegally though.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2010 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:


How'd your deal in Phoenix go anyway?
 
_____________________________________________  
 
_____________________________________________

On the Illegal Immigration Subject

 

A lot of people dont realize Arizona has been doing Immigration Enforcement for some years now, just at a small scale (Sherriff Joe Arpaio). And whether we like the guy or not he has had a measurable impact in this state (Ground Zero). Hard to say though, there have been other efforts like Fencing and more border patrols as well. I think just the threat and then follow through with executing the Law has had a direct impact and we have seen much less Illegals here, at least I have. It is still a huge problem though and will continue as long as there is such a large disparity between the 2 countries standard of living.

 

The Border is the Problem, or at least the immediate problem. It wont matter how much enforcement we do if the border remains fairly easy to cross, and corps-businesses keep hiring cheaper illegal labor. It will just end up being another huge financial burden (Taxes) that we will all continue to pay for. So how do you take care of the Border Problem?

 

Well there are really only a handful of solutions as I see it

Hire many thousands of Border Patrols to manage an Open Border (5 to 10 years)

Build a Fence (5 to 10 years)

Leave it to the Mexican Government

Arm the Border (Military)

 

 

 

The way I see it (If I were the President)

I would close the border, and not just with a speech. I would task the Military to shut down the entire Mexican Border (Armed). Spread them out with Mobile base camps every 25 to 50 miles, and run round the clock armed patrols from these bases. Bring in the Army Corp of Engineers and build a REAL DETERANT (Fence) using the military, Border Patrol, and Private Sector as the work force. Make it something we can see from space, whatever just make it large enough with the intent that it wont take thousands and thousands of border police to manage (Taxes).  These playground fences their putting up in some areas is a joke and at best a temporary solution with a huge expense both building and monitoring (Taxes). Add in a few more Manned Crossing points in each border state for those Mexicans and Americans who wish to cross the border LEGALLY for trade, tourism, or jobs (Whatever). This would add much needed control of our Border. Obviously The Free-For-All Approach is not working and we just do not have the money to support the numbers of illegal Aliens entering into the country year in and year out (Millions).

 

Once the faucet is turned off then and only then can Enforcement and Reform have a chance at success without creating an ongoing nightmare of trying to catch them once they are here (An enormous expense when you consider the millions and millions of people here illegally) and more coming daily (Taxes).

 

I have more opinions on reform but I will leave it that for now!

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2010 at 6:35pm
Wow Mahshadin!

Nailhead, meet hammer!

I totally agree that the problem is with those employing illegals. The problem is the unscrupulous businesses all but own the government. The Democrats want the illegals because they're a great voting block, and the Republicans want them because their buddies in big business want slave labor, thus no closie of the border.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2010 at 6:46pm
Strange bedfellows indeed...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sharpton_pledge_to_fight_ariz_immig_O7cdlDmQ5GwTBrqZrorD5O

The Rev. Al Sharpton says he will challenge Arizona's new immigration bill in court and on the streets.

Sharpton is joining Lillian Rodriguez Lopez from the Hispanic Federation to announce a legal challenge to the bill. They say activists are also prepared to commit civil disobedience to fight the Arizona immigration bill.

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer signed the bill Friday. It requires police to question people about their immigration status — including asking for identification — if they suspect someone is in the country illegally.

The law will take effect in late July or early August.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2010 at 7:35pm
What's wrong with racial profiling?  Their illegal MEXICANS!
 
It's really not that difficult to figure that one out.
 
The U.S. should put up a double constantine wire fence with land mines in between & that would stop it.  How about throwing some guard towers in with guards armed with machine guns.  Why have a border at all, if we won't patrol it?  Why have a border if there are no penalties for illegally crossing it?
 
All other countries of the world manage their borders, why can't we?
 
The problem is that Mexican's Cantarell oil field, which is roughly 40% of the Mexican economy, is in decline.  When that goes, their economy will be in terrible shape & the flood gates will open.  Fix the problem now or be prepared to board up your windows to keep them out.
 
I have no problems with Mexicans and actually like them, but I do have a big problem with illegal Mexicans.
 
This is going to get alot worse in the years go come.
 
Hooray for Arizona.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turboguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2010 at 10:12pm
If Cantarell takes a total dump it won't only be the Mexican economy that goes south, ours will take a crap too. We need cheap oil (under $5 a gallon) just to get by. If it stayed above that level for too long (I estimate five to six months) we'd have a major problems on our hands, no illegal aliens necessary!

Last time it got high ($4.50+) we took a crap that we are only now recovering from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2010 at 7:01am

The illegal Mexican problem is not just in the border states either. When hubby was in the Navy and we were stationed at NAS Atlanta, there was a huge illegal Mexican population in Atlanta. The apartment complex we lived in at the time had a horrible problem with illegals as did many around there, they have rental scams going. A young hispanic couple will actually lease the apartment, they will move in, live there 2-3 weeks, then slowly single males will start to move in, they move out (go rent another place) while single males continue to move in until you have about 15-20 living in an apartment. People will complain,  they drink alot, play loud Mexican music, then some will move out, the couple will move back in, it's a revolving circle, and it takes months to actually get rid of them. However, I will say one thing for them, they ALL get up and go to work EVERYDAY 5-6 days a week for lawn services, vans and work vehicles would come by and pick them up in the morning for work.  They do work under the table though and they send most of their money home to theri families back in Mexico. Every Friday you would see tons of Mexicans lined up at the grocery store waiting in line to get money orders to send home. They do not speak much English and I speak a little Spanish and I understand a little, but one of them had a white girlfriend and we talked quite a bit, so I learned quite a bit from her and from talking to the rental office (regarding the eviction process, LOL).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahshadin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2010 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by Turboguy Turboguy wrote:

Wow Mahshadin!

Nailhead, meet hammer!

I totally agree that the problem is with those employing illegals. The problem is the unscrupulous businesses all but own the government. The Democrats want the illegals because they're a great voting block, and the Republicans want them because their buddies in big business want slave labor, thus no closie of the border.
____________________________________________ 
 
LOLLOLLOLLOL
 

A little over the top?

 

Here is another one

 

ENGLISH

 

Why is it so hard to understand that we have to have one language (English). I mean this is just a no brainer, if you come to this Country you can not expect Americans to learn every language known to man just because you have arrived. This would be insane to expect us all to learn Spanish, Chinese, Ukrainian, Arabic, Portuguese, Japanese, Romanian, and the list goes on. If you cant make the commitment to learn English then dont come here, its called Assimilation to your new society, and also one of the huge issues with failing schools around the Country. We can not expect our teachers to have to learn multiple languages and then somehow execute them in 6 different languages in the classroom (Common Sense). And this ripples into every part of our Nation from Education to Business. This wouldnt bother me that much if I didn’t see the absolute refusal by some ethnic groups to assimilate the language.

 

 

MUMAMIA!!!!!!

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."   G Orwell
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