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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic

Just What Is China Planning?

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    Posted: August 28 2018 at 2:34am
China Has Withheld Samples of a Dangerous Flu Virus

Despite an international agreement, U.S. health authorities still have not received H7N9 avian flu specimens from their Chinese counterparts.
For over a year, the Chinese government has withheld lab samples of a rapidly evolving influenza virus from the United States — specimens needed to develop vaccines and treatments, according to federal health officials.

Despite persistent requests from government officials and research institutions, China has not provided samples of the dangerous virus, a type of bird flu called H7N9. In the past, such exchanges have been mostly routine under rules established by the World Health Organization.

Now, as the United States and China spar over trade, some scientists worry that the vital exchange of medical supplies and information could slow, hampering preparedness for the next biological threat.

The scenario is “unlike shortages in aluminum and soybeans,” said Dr. Michael Callahan, an infectious disease specialist at Harvard Medical School.

“Jeopardizing U.S. access to foreign pathogens and therapies to counter them undermines our nation’s ability to protect against infections which can spread globally within days.”

Experts concur that the world’s next global pandemic will likely come from a repeat offender: the flu. The H7N9 virus is one candidate.

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Since taking root in China in 2013, the virus has spread through poultry farms, evolving into a highly pathogenic strain that can infect humans. It has killed 40 percent of its victims.

If this strain were to become highly contagious among humans, seasonal flu vaccines would provide little to no protection. Americans have virtually no immunity.

“Pandemic influenza spreads faster than anything else,” said Rick A. Bright, the director of Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, an agency within the Department of Health and Human Services that oversees vaccine development. “There’s nothing to hold it back or slow it down. Every minute counts.”

Under an agreement established by the World Health Organization, participating countries must transfer influenza samples with pandemic potential to designated research centers “in a timely manner.”

That process — involving paperwork, approval through several agencies and a licensed carrier — normally takes several months, according to Dr. Larry Kerr, the director of pandemics and emerging threats at the Department of Health and Human Services.

But more than one year after a devastating wave of H7N9 infections in Asia — 766 cases were reported, almost all in China — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is still waiting for several viral samples, the National Security Council and the W.H.O. confirmed.

Scientists at the Department of Agriculture have had such difficulty obtaining flu samples from China that they have stopped requesting them altogether, according to a government official who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to discuss the matter.

At least four research institutions have relied upon a small group of H7N9 samples from cases in Taiwan and Hong Kong. (All four asked not to be identified for fear of further straining ties.)

The Chinese embassy in Washington did not respond to multiple requests for comment. The Chinese Center For Disease Control and Prevention also did not reply to inquiries regarding the transfer.

When the H7N9 virus first appeared in China, researchers say the Chinese government at first provided timely information. But communication has gradually worsened.

Yet a sudden spike in infections during the 2016-2017 outbreak wave demands intense research, said scientists aiming to understand the virus’ evolution.

Recent trade tensions could worsen the problem.

The Office of the United States Trade Representative in April released a proposed list of products to be targeted for tariffs — including pharmaceutical products such as vaccines, medicines and medical devices.

So far, none of those medical products have landed on the final tariff lists. But lower-level trade negotiations with China concluded on Thursday with few signs of progress, increasing the likelihood of additional tariffs.

The United States relies on China not only for H7N9 influenza samples but for medical supplies, such as plastic drip mechanisms for intravenous saline, as well as ingredients for certain oncology and anesthesia drugs. Some of these are delivered through a just-in-time production model; there are no stockpiles, which could prove dangerous if the supply was disrupted, health officials said.

Scientists believe top commerce officials in both governments view the viral samples much like any other laboratory product, and may be unfamiliar with their vital role in global security.

“Countries don’t own their viral samples any more than they own the birds in their skies,” said Andrew C. Weber, who oversaw biological defense programs at the Pentagon during the Obama administration.

“Given that this flu virus is a potential threat to humanity, not sharing it immediately with the global network of W.H.O. laboratories like C.D.C. is scandalous. Many could die needlessly if China denies international access to samples.”

For over a decade, epidemiological data and samples have been used as trade war pawns.

China hid the 2002 outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, for four months and then kept the findings of its research private. Some provinces withheld information about cases even from the central government in Beijing.

In 2005, Chinese authorities insisted an H5N1 influenza outbreak was contained, contradicting University of Hong Kong scientists who offered evidence that it was expanding. Those authorities hesitated to share viral samples from infected wild birds with the international community, concealing the scope to avoid a hit to their vast poultry industry.

Indonesia followed suit, refusing in 2007 to share specimens of H5N1 with the United States and United Kingdom, arguing that the countries would use the samples to develop a vaccine that Indonesians could not afford.

Those episodes led to the 2011 development of the W.H.O.’s Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Framework, which aims to promote sample exchanges as well as developing countries’ access to vaccines.

But for countries like China, bearing the burden of a novel virus is paradoxical. Outbreaks are expensive — the wave of H7N9 infections in 2013 alone cost China more than $6 billion, according to the United Nations — but they can provide a head-start in developing valuable treatments.

“In a sense, China has made lemonade from lemons — converting the problem of global infectious disease threats into lifesaving and valuable commodities,” Dr. Callahan said.

And now, as the H7N9 virus evolves, United States authorities worry that the Chinese have obfuscated the scale and features of this outbreak.

The Chinese government has refused to share clinical data from infected patients, according to scientists, and claims to have all but eradicated H7N9 through a single poultry vaccination campaign.

“Influenza is going to do what it does best, which is mutate,” Dr. Kerr said.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/27/health/china-flu-virus-samples.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 3:56am
An unintentional, and possibly deadly, consequence of the current trade war.

Not that US firms have not tried in the past to patent viruses and treatments that have been shared with them. [Or even patented centuries old strains of Indian rice claiming that any Indian farmer owed money to the American company holding the patent]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 3:20pm
they going to release it 12 monkey style...............

why do you think they allowing more kids...............

the world will be empty

Spain -smallpox empty America.............ring a bell ??

"better to take the state intact" from "The Art of WAR".....Sun Tzu

12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 3:31pm
I usually laugh at conspiracy nuts and those whom claim: "The Sky Is Falling!!!" But this time I am not even capable of a chuckle.

I doubt they are planning to wipe out 1/2 the world, but something nefarious is definitely afoot. With China it is almost always money, very occasionally power - coz power enables you to hold on to the money, but usually it is just money.

That would be one hell of a ransom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 5:31pm
I put on John L post,

it's the money....
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 6:05pm
My guess is that they want to control the situation - they are probably hard at work at a vaccine for H7N9, and if it breaks out and goes pandemic, well, we know where to turn to buy it.

More ominously, they may be plotting a natural form of biowarfare on the rest of the world, counting on H7N9 to depopulate large areas and allowing a vaccinated Chinese nation to rule the global recovery. I sure wouldn't put it past them.

Of course, the joke may ultimately be on them! They tried to manipulate the SARS situation, and their close-mindedness and lack of global cooperation came back to cost them bigly. The same could happen with H7N9 or other influenza variety.

We shall see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 8:04pm
Really blame it on Trump EdwinSm, really? The Chinese have always withheld information for years. They want to take over the world so their people have enough room. They would especially love to kill the U.S. off. But that must be President Trump's fault too as you liberals see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 11:01pm
Flumon, a trade war can have serious consequences, but I will give an example of this type of withholding information that happened before the current US President came to power. So it is a long term problem that some countries have with US trade policies.

Originally posted by BBC BBC wrote:

According to the Financial Times, "Indonesia blamed the World Health Organization" for the government's decision to stop sharing samples of the H5N1 bird flu virus, claiming that the United Nations agency passed them on to pharmaceutical companies to make vaccines that Jakarta had to buy at high prices."


Full article at American Society of International Law page: https://asil.org/insights/volume/11/issue/4/indonesias-decision-withhold-influenza-virus-samples-world-health


Maybe this comes back to what was said on the other thread regarding this topic, about its about the money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2018 at 11:33pm
Although I am with Edwin here, no one is completely without blame.

The perpetrator is China - they bear the lion's share of the blame.
None of the past Presidents managed to deal with this - so they all get some blame.
Rather than joining the past presidents in failing to sort this, Trump seems to have made things worse - lots of blame but less than China earns.

Far more worrying is the fact that Xi Jin Ping has managed to raise his position to that of supreme dictator without even a grumble from this side of the Pacific. That is not a share of the blame. That is taking your eye off the ball.

Contrary to Chinese opinion, Trump, it's not all about money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2018 at 12:24am
China Is Treating Islam Like a Mental Illness

The country is putting Muslims in internment camps—and causing real psychological damage in the process.
Sigal Samuel
Aug 28, 2018

One million Muslims are being held right now in Chinese internment camps, according to estimates cited by the UN and U.S. officials. Former inmates—most of whom are Uighurs, a largely Muslim ethnic minority—have told reporters that over the course of an indoctrination process lasting several months, they were forced to renounce Islam, criticize their own Islamic beliefs and those of fellow inmates, and recite Communist Party propaganda songs for hours each day. There are media reports of inmates being forced to eat pork and drink alcohol, which are forbidden to Muslims, as well as reports of torture and death.

The sheer scale of the internment camp system, which according to The Wall Street Journal has doubled in China’s northwestern Xinjiang region just within the last year, is mindboggling. The U.S. Congressional-Executive Commission on China describes it as “the largest mass incarceration of a minority population in the world today.” Beijing began by targeting Uighur extremists, but now even benign manifestations of Muslim identity—like growing a long beard—can get a Uighur sent to a camp, the Journal noted. Earlier this month, when a UN panel confronted a senior Chinese official about the camps, he said there are “no such things as reeducation centers,” even though government documents refer to the facilities that way. Instead, he claimed they’re just vocational schools for criminals.

China has been selling a very different narrative to its own population. Although the authorities frequently describe the internment camps as schools, they also liken them to another type of institution: hospitals. Here’s an excerpt from an official Communist Party audio recording, which was transmitted last year to Uighurs via WeChat, a social-media platform, and which was transcribed and translated by Radio Free Asia:

    Members of the public who have been chosen for reeducation have been infected by an ideological illness. They have been infected with religious extremism and violent terrorist ideology, and therefore they must seek treatment from a hospital as an inpatient. … The religious extremist ideology is a type of poisonous medicine, which confuses the mind of the people. … If we do not eradicate religious extremism at its roots, the violent terrorist incidents will grow and spread all over like an incurable malignant tumor.

“Religious belief is seen as a pathology” in China, explained James Millward, a professor of Chinese history at Georgetown University, adding that Beijing often claims religion fuels extremism and separatism. “So now they’re calling reeducation camps ‘hospitals’ meant to cure thinking. It’s like an inoculation, a search-and-destroy medical procedure that they want to apply to the whole Uighur population, to kill the germs of extremism. But it’s not just giving someone a shot—it’s locking them up for months in bad conditions.”

China has long feared that Uighurs will attempt to establish their own national homeland in Xinjiang, which they refer to as East Turkestan. In 2009, ethnic riots there resulted in hundreds of deaths, and some radical Uighurs have carried out terrorist attacks in recent years. Chinese officials have claimed that in order to suppress the threat of Uighur separatism and extremism, the government needs to crack down not only on those Uighurs who show signs of having been radicalized, but on a significant swath of the population.

The medical analogy is one way the government tries to justify its policy of large-scale internment: After all, attempting to inoculate a whole population against, say, the flu, requires giving flu shots not just to the already-afflicted few, but to a critical mass of people. In fact, using this rhetoric, China has tried to defend a system of arrest quotas for Uighurs. Police officers confirmed to Radio Free Asia that they are under orders to meet specific population targets when rounding up people for internment. In one township, police officials said they were being ordered to send 40 percent of the local population to the camps.

China is going to outrageous lengths to surveil its own citizens

The government also uses this pathologizing language in an attempt to justify lengthy internments and future interventions any time officials deem Islam a threat. “It’s being treated as a mental illness that’s never guaranteed to be completely cured, like addiction or depression,” said Timothy Grose, a China expert at the Rose Hulman Institute of Technology. “There’s something mentally wrong that needs to be diagnosed, treated—and followed up with.” Here’s how the Communist Party recording cited above explains this, while alluding to the threat of contagion:

    There is always a risk that the illness will manifest itself at any moment, which would cause serious harm to the public. That is why they must be admitted to a reeducation hospital in time to treat and cleanse the virus from their brain and restore their normal mind. … Being infected by religious extremism and violent terrorist ideology and not seeking treatment is like being infected by a disease that has not been treated in time, or like taking toxic drugs. … There is no guarantee that it will not trigger and affect you in the future.

    Having gone through reeducation and recovered from the ideological disease doesn’t mean that one is permanently cured. … So, after completing the reeducation process in the hospital and returning home … they must remain vigilant, empower themselves with the correct knowledge, strengthen their ideological studies, and actively attend various public activities to bolster their immune system.

Several other government-issued documents use this type of medical language. “This stuff about the poison in the brain—it’s definitely out there,” said Rian Thum, noting that even civilians tasked with carrying out the crackdown in Xinjiang speak of “eradicating its tumors.” Recruitment advertisements for staff in the internment camps state that experience in psychological training is a plus, Thum and other experts said. Chinese websites describe reeducation sessions where psychologists perform consultations with Uighurs and treat what they call extremism as a mental illness. A government document published last year in Khotan Prefecture described forced indoctrination as “a free hospital treatment for the masses with sick thinking.”

This is not the first time China has used medical analogies to suppress a religious minority. “Historically, it’s comparable to the strategy toward Falun Gong,” said Adrian Zenz, a researcher at the European School of Culture and Theology in Berlin. He was referring to a spiritual practice whose followers were suppressed in the early 2000s through reeducation in forced labor camps. “Falun Gong was also treated like a dangerous addiction. … But in Xinjiang this [rhetoric] is certainly being pushed to the next level. The explicit link with the addictive effect of religion is being emphasized possibly in an unprecedented way.”

China’s new frontiers in dystopian tech

Tahir Imin, a U.S.-based Uighur academic from Xinjiang who said he has several family members in internment camps, was not surprised to hear his religion being characterized as if it’s a disease. In his view, it’s part of China’s attempt to eradicate Muslim ethnic minorities and forcefully assimilate them into the Han Chinese majority. “If they have any ‘illness,’ it is being Uighur,” he said. In addition to Uighurs, The Washington Post has reported that Muslim members of other ethnic groups, like the Kazakhs and the Kyrgyz, have been sent to the camps. “I think the Chinese government is saying: ‘This ideological hospital—in there, send every person who is not [ethnically] Chinese. They are sick, they are not safe [to be around], they are not reliable, they are not healthy people.’”

The terrible irony is that in “treating” Uighurs for supposed psychological problems, China is causing very real psychological damage, both at home and abroad. One former inmate told The Independent he suffered thoughts of suicide inside the camps. And as Uighurs in exile around the world learn what is happening to their relatives back home, some have told reporters they suffer from insomnia, depression, anxiety, and paranoia.

Murat Harri Uyghur, a 33-year-old doctor who moved to Finland in 2010, said he has received word from relatives that both his parents are in the camps. He has launched an online campaign, “Free My Parents,” he said will raise money to start an advocacy organization to help them, but he told me he suffers from recurrent panic attacks. He also described finding himself prone to feelings of anger, powerlessness, and exhaustion. “I try to be normal,” he said, “but I have a psychological problem now.”

In an interview with The Globe and Mail, a Uighur woman in Canada who said she had a sister in the camps said, “I cannot concentrate on anything. My mind is off. I cannot sleep.” She added, “I lost a lot of weight because I don’t want to eat anymore.”

Some Uighurs I spoke to who are living abroad also have to cope with a pervasive sense of guilt. They know that Beijing treats any Uighur who’s traveled internationally as suspicious, and that their family members are treated as suspicious by association. For example, a 24-year-old Uighur attending graduate school in Kentucky, who requested anonymity for fear that China would further punish his relatives, said it’s been 197 days since he’s been able to contact his father in Xinjiang. He tracks the days on a board tacked to his bedroom wall. “I’m afraid for my dad’s life,” he said. Asked why he believes his father was sent to an internment camp, he replied without a trace of doubt: “Because I go to school here in a foreign country.”

“Now I know that if I ever go home,” he added, “I will be imprisoned just like my dad.”

Source:   https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/08/china-pathologizing-uighur-muslims-mental-illness/568525/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2018 at 4:06am
Just as a point of interest, the UK has also asked for samples of the H7N9 virus, with all the staggering success the USA has axchieved.

Article:   https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/29/disease-x-china-ignores-uk-request-share-samples-flu-virus-pandemic/
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China has transformed its military to 'fight and win wars', Pentagon warns
By Sandeep Gopalan
Updated about 3 hours ago

Soldiers of the Chinese People's Liberation Army take part in combat training.
PHOTO: Soldiers of the Chinese People's Liberation Army take part in combat training in the Gobi desert in Jiuquan, Gansu province. (Reuters)
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Are we entering the critical phase in the Great Power competition between America and China?

The answer seems to be affirmative, based on a new Pentagon report released recently.

The report — submitted to Congress by the Department of Defence and titled Military and Security Developments Involving the People's Republic of China — provides new insights into China's military restructuring and more aggressive posture in the Indo-Pacific region.

Given its importance, all countries in the region ought to take notice.

Predictably, some of the coverage in the American media has been breathless — seemingly surprised at the idea that America's great rival is training for a military conflict with it.

Surely, if American military preparedness is based upon a potential conflict with China, it shouldn't be news that China thinks the same way.

Greatest transformation
Soldiers of China's People's Liberation Army during a military promotional event.
PHOTO: The People's Liberation Army embarked on the greatest transformation in its history last year. (Reuters)
So, what did the Pentagon's assessment find? Here are the key insights.

First, in 2017, the People's Liberation Army embarked on the greatest transformation in its history. This was both structural and operational.

The objective is "to create a more mobile, modular, lethal ground force capable of being the core of joint operations and able to meet Xi Jinping's directive to 'fight and win wars'."

Second, China's military modernisation seeks "capabilities with the potential to degrade core US operational and technological advantages".

Clearly, in China's eyes, the US is threat number one. And China employs both legal and non-legal means to advance its modernisation goals: "Targeted foreign direct investment, cyber theft, and exploitation of private Chinese nationals' access to these technologies."

Takeaway: China is closing the technological gap with the US.

US ally Australia in range of Chinese missiles
Wide shot of a line of military vehicles with missiles on their roofs.
PHOTO: Australia is within range of China's nuclear-capable DF-26 3 missiles. (Reuters: Andy Wong)
Third, China's military posture is predicated on the maritime domain being a significant location for conflict with the US.

The report notes: "The PLA has rapidly expanded its overwater bomber operating areas, gaining experience in critical maritime regions and likely training for strikes against US and allied targets."

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The PLAN Marine Corps (PLANMC) is being expanded from 10,000 to 30,000 personnel by 2020 with a larger mission beyond its current focus on the South China Sea. Critically, strike capabilities are expanding to cover US and allied targets in the region.

The report acknowledges the "PLA …[demonstrates] the capability to strike US and allied forces and military bases in the western Pacific Ocean, including Guam. Such flights could potentially be used as a strategic signal to regional states".

The US and allies such as Australia are within range of Chinese missiles.

For instance, Australia is within range of the nuclear-capable DF-26 and CSS-3 missiles.

China's strategy to avoid dramatic conflict
Fourth, China's preferred strategy is to avoid dramatic conflict. Instead, it uses "opportunistically timed progression of incremental but intensifying steps to attempt to increase effective control over disputed areas and avoid escalation to military conflict."

It combines these incremental measures with economic diplomacy — buying silence and seeking accession. The report documents numerous such instances against the Philippines, Vietnam, and South Korea.

Artist's impression of the Sky Muster satellite
PHOTO: China probably has the ability to destroy satellites in space, the report notes. (Supplied: NBN Co)
Fifth, China wishes to make "major progress" toward "informatisation" — a concept "roughly analogous to the US military's concept of "net-centric" capability: a force's ability to use advanced information technology and communications systems to gain operational advantage over an adversary".

Sixth, China employs cyber attacks to achieve key strategic goals. These include "intelligence collection against US diplomatic, economic, academic, and defence industrial base sectors".

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The intelligence is then used "to benefit China's defence high-technology industries, support … military modernisation, provide the CCP insights into US … [and] enable PLA cyber forces to build an operational picture of US perspectives".

In addition, it provides knowledge about "defence networks, military disposition, logistics, and related military capabilities that could be exploited prior to or during a crisis".

Seventh, China's military ambitions extend to space: it wishes to acquire "counterspace capabilities, including kinetic-kill missiles, ground-based lasers, and orbiting space robots, as well as to expand space surveillance capabilities that can monitor objects across the globe and in space and enable counterspace actions."

The report notes that China probably has the ability to destroy satellites in space.

Nuclear 'triad' of delivery systems
Eighth, China's nuclear deterrence is evolving to encompass a triad of delivery capabilities. The DOD records that "nuclear capable bombers would, for the first time, provide China with a nuclear 'triad' of delivery systems dispersed across land, sea, and air."

In addition, the country "is developing a stealthy, long-range strategic bomber with a nuclear delivery capability that could be operational within the next 10 years".

Further, China's no-first use policy regarding nuclear weapons is ambiguous. Although it claims it will never use nuclear weapons first, the no-first use policy may not apply if targets that are necessary for nuclear deterrence are attacked, for example.

China's first home-built aircraft carrier leaves port.
PHOTO: China's first entirely home-built aircraft carrier began sea trials earlier this year. (Xinhua: Li Gang)
Ninth, China's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is central to its power aspirations.

As the report bluntly notes, "China intends to use BRI to develop strong economic ties with other countries, shape their interests to align with China's, and deter confrontation or criticism of China's approach to sensitive issues".

Obviously, "some BRI investments could create potential military advantages for China," particularly in the naval context.

China is also likely "to establish additional military bases in countries with which it has a longstanding friendly relationship and similar strategic interests, such as Pakistan".

Sri Lanka should take note.

Beware Chinese gifts
A soldier of China's People's Liberation Army with a tank during a military promotional event.
PHOTO: The report documents that the PLA's likely preparing for a contingency to unify Taiwan. (Reuters)
Finally, China has not ruled out the military option for reunifying Taiwan.

Chillingly, the report documents that the "PLA … [is] likely preparing for a contingency to unify Taiwan … by force, while simultaneously deterring, delaying, or denying any third-party intervention on Taiwan's behalf".

While none of this is surprising, the level of detail provided in the report offers a clear look at China's escalating ambitions.

It also showcases China's unmistakable savvy in preparing for any eventuality across the full spectrum of conflict locales — investing in technology leadership, expanding military space capabilities, developing indigenous aircraft carriers, leading in international peacekeeping/counter-piracy missions to gain operational knowledge, developing informatisation and cyber attack capabilities, developing both larger range missiles and missile defence, and expanding nuclear weapons delivery possibilities in the event of a first strike.

The report also offers lessons for states in the region seduced by China's economic goodies — there is no free lunch and Chinese gifts might be followed by military commitments.

Dr Sandeep Gopalan is the pro vice-chancellor for academic innovation at Deakin University and a professor of law.
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2018 at 7:24pm
I think Chuck's right: the chinese are developing a vaccine and will vaccinate their entire population and then release the virus, perhaps after making it more deadly.

China passed a point recently when it could no longer produce all the food needed to feed it's huge population - hence it's recent buying up of food producing farms and companies across the world to guarantee supply. If I ruled China, I would be thinking "we need more land to expand into" and I would certainly be thinking of the best way to get it without the expense or the threat of losing that a war would entail.

Why not release a terrible flu, cripple a country on every level and then swoop in with a military force for a quick clean up and then start shipping in boat loads of Chinese families ready to walk straight into fully furnished and functioning homes, farms and offices? Sounds like a great plan to me. All they'd have to do is gather up the corpses and they'd be good to go.
If it is to be, it is up to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2018 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

I think Chuck's right: the chinese are developing a vaccine and will vaccinate their entire population and then release the virus, perhaps after making it more deadly.

China passed a point recently when it could no longer produce all the food needed to feed it's huge population - hence it's recent buying up of food producing farms and companies across the world to guarantee supply. If I ruled China, I would be thinking "we need more land to expand into" and I would certainly be thinking of the best way to get it without the expense or the threat of losing that a war would entail.

Why not release a terrible flu, cripple a country on every level and then swoop in with a military force for a quick clean up and then start shipping in boat loads of Chinese families ready to walk straight into fully furnished and functioning homes, farms and offices? Sounds like a great plan to me. All they'd have to do is gather up the corpses and they'd be good to go.


Thanks, KiwiMum, I tend to have "dangerous visions!" RIP Harlan Ellison!

They would not even vaccinate all Chinese, the Chinese government is riding roughshod over the Islamic Uighur minority, including concentrating them into camps. I could see the PRC experimenting on these poor souls.

Chinese Death Star indeed!
CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2018 at 9:24pm
I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Should Africa be wary of Chinese debt? - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-45368092
12 Monkeys...............
1995 ‧ Science fiction film/Thriller ‧ 2h 11m a must for AFT
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