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My fear when Mr. Trump takes the Oath of Office...

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CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2016 at 7:20am
Thanks, Dutch Josh!  There are tons of articles, this one has a good animation showing what will happen to US coastal areas. 


Interestingly, the most impacted regions in the US are also the ones that voted against Donald Trump!! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2016 at 12:40pm
Two million more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than for Donald Trump

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...r-Donald-Trump


the "people's" choice was quite clear

#TrumpNot MyPresident
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2016 at 2:58pm
Interesting story just breaking about "anomalies" in parts of battleground states that used electronic voting.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jill-stein-prepares-to-request-election-recounts-in-battleground-states/ar-AAkG049?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=SL5IDHP




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"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2016 at 1:27pm

How long before the white working class realises Trump was just scamming them?

He hasn't even taken office yet and the broken promises are piling up

6K
trumpwhiteworkingclass.jpg

While we’re still analysing the election results and debating the importance of different factors to the final outcome, everyone agrees that white working class voters played a key part in Donald Trump’s victory, in some cases by switching their votes and in some cases by turning out when they had been nonvoters before.

And now that he’s about to take office, he’s ready to deliver on what he promised them, right? Well, maybe not so much:

President-elect Donald Trump abruptly abandoned some of his most tendentious campaign promises Tuesday, saying he does not plan to prosecute Hillary Clinton for her use of a private email system or the dealings of her family foundation, has an “open mind” about a climate-change accord from which he vowed to withdraw the United States and is no longer certain that torturing terrorism suspects is a good idea.

The billionaire real estate developer also dismissed any need to disentangle himself from his financial holdings, despite rising questions about how his global business dealings might affect his decision-making as the nation’s chief executive.

And it’s not just that; at the same time, the Trump administration and congressional Republicans are getting ready to move on their highest priorities, cutting taxes for the wealthy, scrapping oversight on Wall Street, and lightening regulations on big corporations.

Imagine you’re one of those folks who went to Trump rallies and thrilled to his promises to take America back from the establishment, who felt your heart stir as he promised to torture prisoners, who got your “Trump That Bitch” T-shirt, who was overjoyed to finally have a candidate who tells it like it is. What are you thinking as you watch this?

<

If you have any sense, you’re coming to the realisation that it was all a scam. You got played. While you were chanting “Lock her up!” he was laughing at you for being so gullible. While you were dreaming about how you’d have an advocate in the Oval Office, he was dreaming about how he could use it to make himself richer. He hasn’t even taken office yet and everything he told you is already being revealed as a lie.

During the campaign, Trump made two kinds of promises to those white working class voters. One was very practical, focused on economics. In coal country, he said he’d bring back all the coal jobs that have been lost to cheap natural gas (even as he promotes more fracking of natural gas; figure that one out). In the industrial Midwest, he said he’d bring back all the labour-intensive factory jobs that were mostly lost to automation, not trade deals. These promises were utterly ludicrous, but most of the target voters seemed not to care.

The second kind of promise was emotional and expressive. It was about turning back the clock to a time when immigrants hadn’t come to your town, when women weren’t so uppity, when you could say whatever you wanted and you didn’t feel like the culture and the economy were leaving you behind. So Trump said he’d toss Hillary Clinton in jail, force everyone to say “Merry Christmas” again, and sue those dastardly liberal news organisations into submission.

And of course, there were promises - like building a wall on the southern border and making Mexico pay for it just so they know who’s boss - that claimed to serve a practical purpose but also had an important expressive purpose. And now one by one Trump is casting them all off.

So what are we left with? What remains is Trump’s erratic whims, his boundless greed, and the core of Republican policies Congress will pursue, which are most definitely not geared toward the interests of working class whites. He can gut environmental regulations, but that doesn’t mean millions of people are going to head back to the coal mines - it was market forces more than anything else that led to coal’s decline. He can renegotiate trade deals, but that doesn’t mean that the labour-intensive factory jobs are coming back. And by the way, the high wages, good benefits, and job security those jobs used to offer? That was thanks to labour unions, which Republicans are now going to try to destroy once and for all.

Had Hillary Clinton won the election, the white working class might have gotten some tangible benefits - a higher minimum wage, overtime pay, paid family and medical leave, more secure health insurance, and so on. Trump and the Republicans oppose all that. So what did the white working class actually get? They got the election itself. They got to give a big middle finger to the establishment, to the coastal elites, to immigrants, to feminists, to college students, to popular culture, to political correctness, to every person and impersonal force they see arrayed against them. And that was it.

So what happens in two years when there’s a congressional election and two years after that when Trump runs for a second term? Those voters may look around and say, Hey wait a minute. That paradise of infinite winning Trump promised? It didn’t happen. My community still faces the same problems it did before. There’s no new factory in town with thousands of jobs paying great salaries. Everybody doesn’t have great health insurance with no cost-sharing for incredibly low premiums. I still hear people speaking Spanish from time to time. Women and minorities are still demanding that I treat them with respect. Music and movies and TV still make me feel like I’m being left behind. When Trump told me he’d wipe all that away, he was conning me. In fact, in many ways he was the fullest expression of the caricature of politicians (everything they say is a lie, they’re only out for themselves) I thought I was striking back against when I supported him.

President Trump protests

      Those voters may decide to vote for a Democrat next time. Or they may be demobilised, deciding that there isn’t much point to voting at all. The nearly all-white areas where turnout shot up in 2016 might settle right back down to where they used to be.

      Or maybe Trump will find a way to actually improve the lives of working class voters. That’s theoretically possible, but absolutely nothing he has done or said so far suggests that he has any idea how to do it, or even the inclination. So he may try to keep the fires of hatred, resentment, and fear burning, in the hopes that people forget that he hasn’t given them the practical things he said he would.

      The Washington Post

      Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

      Marcus Aurelius
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      Crabby View Drop Down
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2016 at 6:51pm
      People will feel no different than when Obama scammed us by saying that he was going to be the most transparent president ever and then wasn't transparent at all.

      As for the supposed low cost health insurance that I was to get under Obamacare, it has almost doubled in the past 3 years! Nancy Pelosi, the democrat house speaker, told everyone that they had to pass the law to find out what was in it.

      Why should Donald Trump disentangle himself from his business holdings? He will eventually go back to being a private citizen again. Why should he give all of that up? He doesn't need an inside track in government to make more money than he already has. Using the government for their own purposes is more for people like the Clinton's and Obama who went into office with little and came out rich.

      I noticed that you quoted the Washington Post above. We don't call that paper the Washington Compost for nothing. Take a hint from that. This rag is pretty left of center these days.

      I have to wonder why someone from Australia should concern themselves with our election when they don't have any participation in it.
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      CRS, DrPH View Drop Down
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2016 at 7:57pm
      ^although this hasn't been written about much, I believe that a critical factor of this election had to do with gun ownership and protecting the 2nd Amendment.  That alone may have been worth it to the group that voted for Trump.  

      It was a consideration of mine, but I reluctantly voted for Hillary out of concern for Trump's many conflicts of interest & the curious ties to Putin, which I'm waiting to see manifested in some type of move against NATO.  We shall see....
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2016 at 1:25pm
      "hope and change" republican styleLOLLOLLOL

      grandma is gonna get thrown over a financial cliff
      too bad
      so sad

      Pay more and get less: The Ryan plan to privatize Medicare

      http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/27/1602925/-Pay-more-and-get-less-The-Ryan-plan-to-privatize-Medicare

      elections have consequences
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2016 at 3:13pm
      if you look the news item was from the UK........


      i do read what others say,

      about other countries ,

      keeps my mind.....

      OPEN......

      p.s

      dont tell anyone but i subscribe to the  Russian Times,have to know what the commie bastards are up to ....lol


      Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Medclinician Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2016 at 4:00pm
      Originally posted by Satori Satori wrote:

      Two million more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than for Donald Trump

      http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...r-Donald-Trump


      the "people's" choice was quite clear

      #TrumpNot MyPresident


      No, not necessarily. You are using the term Americans rather broadly. If you want to consider every person who is physically present in the U.S. an American, it isn't right. The people's choice does not include perhaps 7 million immigrants who voted illegally. In addition to these vote numbers are CNN and Fox generated numbers. When they were so dishonest in the polling numbers, do you think anything is going to be different as they try to get electors to change their votes.

      "Not my president" was the result of a billionaire investing money to back organized rallys around the U.S. with coaxing cards and bullhorns. Many of those people were political mercenaries paid to protest and the ads can be found all over the net.

      Suppose Trump had done the same thing. Days after Hillary was elected had people in the streets protesting she was "not our president"?

      He was the whiner remember. The person "not in contact with reality" for saying the election was rigged. And now we hear the same battle cry.

      Personally, I would be very afraid the day the Hillary Clinton becomes president. For one, she is likely to have us in a nuclear war in a matter of weeks. Her no fly zone in Syria would set off World War 3.

      The election was a Jerry Springer drama fest which failed to address the real issues, especially foregin policy. The foreign policy of the Democrats for 30 years on and off got us to where we are now with ISIS. We created ISIS just like we created the Mujhadeen to get Russia out of Afghanistan. Hillary has stated this in several videos I put up here.

      The bottom line is we need change. I would be afraid to have the same corrupt political swamp we have had for 50 years. The legislators are controlled by lobbyists who do not represent the people and are totally out of contact with the needs of Americans. 

      America would  not be great again with a criminal in office. There still will be investigations. Our inner cities would be in chaos with policeman being murdered and anarchy in the streets. Do you doubt this?

      It is time for a change. Let us hope we finally get it. Minorities have a right to their voice and to be heard, but we live in a democracy. It is for all the people, not just the really verbal and loud smaller groups with their personal agendas and programs. The Midwest and South and the workers were fed up with East Coast and West Coast running the country. It is time they were heard. The auto-workers, the coal miners, the heartland, the life and blood of our nation. They don't have time to protest. They are too busy working their butts off to make a living and survive. But they certainly had time to vote. And they did.

      Medclinician
      "not if but when" the original Medclinician
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2016 at 1:05am
      There are various estimates of how many people supposedly voted illegally, ranging from the number you quoted, to Trump's estimate of 3 million. None of those numbers have yet to be substantiated that I'm aware of, although they're being thrown out as fact.

      A right wing blogger called Greg Phillips is the most often quoted, but since he claimed three million votes had been fraudulently cast, he's been either unwilling or unable to provide any evidence to back it up. I'd be interested to see something more substantial than theories and suspicions. Do we have any links to reputable sites that can disprove the current popular vote count?








      "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2016 at 5:10am
      7 million illegal votes castLOL

      ok at this point people are just making up CRAP

      lets see some EVIDENCE please

      my state is TOTALLY dominated by Republicans
      they have been whining about voter "fraud" forever
      so far they have found exactly 6 votes that MAY have been cast illegally

      that's right
      6 out of over 4 million
      not 600,000
      not 60,000
      not 600
      not 60
      but SIX

      OFFICIAL counts at this point in time
      put Hillary 2 million votes ahead
      once again
      the PEOPLE clearly picked Clinton
      the electoral college picked Trump
      bottom line
      we're screwed
      climate change is going to be the BIGGEST issue we face
      and we have a climate change denier in the White House
      it's not gonna end well for us

      and as I have said
      personally speaking I fully expect another major economic collapse similar to or worse than the one that happened at the end of the Bush debacle

      now please excuse me
      I need to access some of my accounts on line
      and continue moving my money
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2016 at 10:07am
      Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

      There are various estimates of how many people supposedly voted illegally, ranging from the number you quoted, to Trump's estimate of 3 million. None of those numbers have yet to be substantiated that I'm aware of, although they're being thrown out as fact.

      A right wing blogger called Greg Phillips is the most often quoted, but since he claimed three million votes had been fraudulently cast, he's been either unwilling or unable to provide any evidence to back it up. I'd be interested to see something more substantial than theories and suspicions. Do we have any links to reputable sites that can disprove the current popular vote count?


      He freakin' WON, what difference does it make? 

      There is no credible evidence of any large-scale voter fraud, the recount effort is stupid & a waste of time and money.  


      Trump is President, we have to deal with it.  Maybe it will be good, maybe not...he belongs to his voters and the GOP Congress now.  

      Personally, I think the guy is too erratic to be an effective President, but we have to go through the process.  I wonder if the GOP Congress will let him sell skyscrapers to Iran, N. Korea etc.?  He will if he can make a buck on it.  

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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2016 at 1:38pm
      I absolutely agree, Chuck, and nothing's going to change the result. But I'm just wondering if there is indeed any proof of widespread voter fraud numbering in the millions as is being claimed. Trump is currently lagging behind in the popular vote, but there are those who seem to be trying to muddy the water with what appears to be unsubstantiated accusations of illegal immigrants being organized to vote for his opponent. Just looking to get clarification, because nothing I'm seeing seems to support their assertion that Trump has either a majority, or a mandate.

      "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 28 2016 at 2:02pm
      yeah EVERYBODY gets it
      Trump won

      the Green Party is covering the cost of any recounts so taxpayers are off the hook last I heard anyway

      but the funny thing is even Trump himself is insisting the election was "rigged"
      he's the one claiming millions of illegal votes were cast
      yet he,like some others here has provided NO evidence

      I might add that the attacks on Trump are to be EXPECTED
      they are going to be CONTINUOUS
      and ya ain't seen nothin' yet

      remember when Obama was elected?
      what was the first thing out of that slimey sleaze bag Mitch McConnel's mouth ?
      he said the Republicans were going to do everything possible to see that he was a one term President
      and that they were going to fiercely oppose him on "everything"
      and they did

      some Democrats are advocating the exact same strategy with Trump
      what was good for the goose is good for the gander
      Trump is so thin skinned and  has has such a fragile ego that the next four years are going to be interesting

      the recount effort is of minor interest,it's not going to change anything
      what I am really concerned about is his not attending daily intelligence briefings
      the Republicans promise to gut Medicare
      and the fact that the big orange pumpkin head about to  stain the halls of the White House is a climate change denier
      and you will remember the fact that the last Republican President gave us the biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2016 at 10:57am
      Morons who voted for Republicans now worry they will take away their health care—as promised

      http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016...re-as-promised

      life is hard
      and its harder when your stupid

      they wanted it
      they voted for it
      and now its time to pay the piper
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2016 at 12:05pm


      First commercial Havana-bound flights touch down amid transition for U.S., Cuba

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/

      Does Trump Actually Want to Isolate Cuba—or Build a Golf Course ...

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/11/29/will_trump_wipe_out_obama_s_opening_to_cuba.html
      Buy more ammo!
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2016 at 5:53am
      if this pile of steaming crap legislation gets passed
      my taxes are going up by at least $1200 a year
      simply because I have such a good health insurance plan

      yeah
      about that new version of "hope and change"Confused

      A closer look at Tom Price's plan to replace Obamacare

      https://www.yahoo.com/news/closer-lo...232030244.html

      and does anybody really think those pathetic subsidies are gonna pay for an elderly persons health care anywhere as good as Medicare does now ?

      sorry old people
      you know those "death panels" you were always hearing about ?
      now your worst fears may come true
      "hope and change" Republican style
      LMAO!

      yes
      elections do indeed have consequences

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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 30 2016 at 11:46am

      Could This Man Be Donald Trump’s Future Secretary of Outsourcing?

      http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/17/could-this-man-be-donald-trump-s-future-secretary-of-outsourcing.html


      you choices are simple

      A.you can believe someone's WORDS

      or

      B.you can believe their ACTIONS


      YOU decide


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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2016 at 8:01am
      wow !
      here it is in your face plain as day

      Hedge fund manager 'takes glee' over how Donald Trump conned his voters

      http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/30/1605694/-Hedge-fund-manager-takes-glee-over-how-Donald-Trump-conned-his-voters

      I have to admit I was a little skeptical when I read the title of this story
      after all DKOS is quite liberal
      so maybe they slanted this just a tad ?

      HOWEVER
      it does include a DIRECT QUOTE

      YOU read YOU decide

      "

        "  Hedge fund manager Whitney Tilson was feeling happy Wednesday morning.

          After Donald Trump ridiculed Wall Street on the campaign trail, the President-elect tapped former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. executive Steven Mnuchin to be his Treasury secretary and billionaire investor Wilbur Ross to lead the Commerce Department. Trump even met with Goldman Sachs President Gary Cohn inside Trump Tower.

          It would suit Tilson just fine if voters who backed Trump because he promised to rein in Wall Street are furious now that he’s surrounding himself with bankers and billionaires.

          “I can take glee in that -- I think Donald Trump conned them,” said Tilson, who runs Kase Capital Management. “I worried that he was going to do crazy things that would blow the system up. So the fact that he’s appointing people from within the system is a good thing.”

      what was that one part again?

      “I can take glee in that -- I think Donald Trump conned them,”



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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2016 at 11:15am
      more and more Trump supporters are  waking up to the fact that they were conned

      “There Will Be Swamp”: Trump Cabinet Picks Confirm Creatures of Washington Still Rule the Earth

      http://www.shtfplan.com/conspiracy-fact-and-theory/there-will-be-swamp-trump-cabinet-picks-confirm-creatures-of-washington-still-rule-the-earth_12012016


      I was driving back from town just now,and channel surfing on the radio,I stopped on Rush Limbaughs program,why I don't know

      but he was twisting himself into a knot doing everything he could to try and justify Trump's pick for various cabinet positions

      it was absolutely sickening to hear him pander and bow and scrape

      what a TOTAL fraud that guy is


      and at this point I almost feel sorry for Trump supporters

      they've been sucker punched BIG TIME

      and that can't feel good


      what was that the one per center said again,literally laughing at the time ?

      “I can take glee in that -- I think Donald Trump conned them,”


      oh yeah

      that

      remember that word CONNED





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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arirish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2016 at 4:08pm
      More than 2,000 scientists sign letter to Trump urging respect for science

      Two thousand-three hundred scientists, including 22 Nobel prize winners, have written an open letter to president-elect Donald Trump urging him to respect science and protect the Clean Air Act and the Endangered Species Act, calling those laws the "bedrock" of public health and environmental science in America.

      Trump has raised the ire of scientists and researchers several times in the last 18 months, most recently when he tweeted on Nov 2 that climate change is based on "faulty" science. Trump has also spoken of dismantling the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and canceling the Paris climate agreement. Trump also met with several prominent anti-vaccine advocates while campaigning for the presidency.

      "Federal agencies should be led by officials with demonstrated track records of respecting science as a critical component of decision making," the letter states. "Federally funded scientists must be able to develop and share their findings free from censorship or manipulation based on politics or ideology."

      The letter was sponsored by the Union of Concerned Scientists and was signed by scientists in all 50 states.

      https://s3.amazonaws.com/ucs-documents/science-and-democracy/ucs-scientist-letter-to-trump-11-30-2016.pdf

      http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2016/12/news-scan-dec-01-2016
      Buy more ammo!
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2016 at 11:55am
      Just a joke............
                                 Does anyone else think the charges against Hilary were "Trumped up"?
                                                                                                                                                  He He...Evil Smile
      How do you tell if a politician is lying?
      His lips or pen are moving.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2016 at 6:00pm
      CRS, DrPH
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2016 at 6:12pm
      Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

      Red storm rising....




      I read an article that claimed the White House staff knew nothing about the call until after. If that's the case, he's apparently operating without any input from diplomatic staff. Scary stuff.
      "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2016 at 6:56pm
      This sounded like this was a call to Trump congratulating him on his presidency win.

      However, Jimmy Carter whose presidency ended in 1981 traveled around the world like his hair was on fire for years afterwards while making peace deals. He's been vocally critical of other presidents' foreign relations policies as well as being critical of Israel. The only time that Jimmy Carter will shut up is when he dies. Obama will be no different.

      So, people on this forum are more critical of a president elect who will be sworn into office in less than 2 months than they are of past presidents who refuse to step down even after 30 years?
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2016 at 7:24pm
      Gee you guys want some cheese with all this Whine!
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2016 at 10:16am
      I can't speak for the rest, but I'm not whining. I'm genuinely scared. I think we just handed the reins to a man who is anything but honorable.

      I don't think anyone won here except Trump - he changes political affiliations to further his ambitions as easily as he switches stances and reneges on campaign promises. No wall, no special prosecutor for Clinton, no immediate repeal of the ACA, and probably no Muslim registry is just the start. I suspect a lot of Trump's supporters are going to become increasingly disillusioned with him as he shows his true colors and backtracks on many of the issues he pretended to stand for. Let's face it - draining the swamp is starting to look more like refreshing the swamp. Was a cabinet of the same old rich, white Goldman Sachs/Wall Street elites really what people envisioned when they voted for him? I doubt it.

      He hasn't even been sworn in yet, and we're already seeing the diplomatic backlash of his inexperience. The Taiwanese leader did initiate the exchange, but he didn't have to personally take the call - that's why he has diplomatic staff. And now he's apparently started to cold call a seemingly random list of foreign leaders without bothering to consult any of his advisers about the potential ramifications. Trump still looks at everything as a deal, and he's acting less like a world leader and more like a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman when he does this. Sorry to be alarmist, but for those who feared a Clinton presidency would increase the chances of global conflict, sit back and watch Trump show you how it's really done.

      I'm no fan of China's foreign or domestic policy, but this is what you get when you elect someone with no political savvy whatsoever.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-taiwan-idUSKBN13R2NT


      "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2016 at 1:59pm
      Trump yelled and screamed about how he would "surround himself with the BEST people"

      dear God I hope this is not an example of this

      he's not even in office yet and has already committed a MAJOR diplomatic blunder

      "the BEST" people would not have allowed this to happen
      that is their job

      major FAIL
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2016 at 4:20pm
      Despite my joking, like Jacksdad I am genuinely scared.  "When America sneezes, the world catches cold."  

      Without America resisting Russia in Syria, the Syrian government can withhold gas supplies from Turkey (This is a bit complicated but bear with me.) as a favor to Assad's friend Putin.  Turkey was going to supply this gas to Europe.  Without this second supply, and the market competition it promotes, the Russians can charge anything they like for the stuff.  Terrible news for us.

      America has military bases all around China.  Which the Chinese have tolerated rather well.  Now imagine these two senarios:

      1, A heavily armed man walks up your drive smiling and says:  "Hi there friend.  I hear you have some influence in this neighborhood.  I hope we can do business together."  

      2, A heavily armed man walks up your drive smiling and says:  "Hi there.  I just made friends with your sworn enemy." 

      #1, is the personal equivalent of the outgoing administration's approach.
      #2, is the personal equivalent of Trump taking calls from the Taiwanese government.  Admitedly Taiwan is far nicer than China and a sovreign state, but one needs to recognise the threat here.

      Finally (for now) it appears that he is recruiting faschist/racist people to be his closest aides.  Start practicing now....  Repeat after me: "Heil Trump!"  No, I'm NOT joking..  I am close to tears.


      How do you tell if a politician is lying?
      His lips or pen are moving.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2016 at 5:55pm
      Gee, where were you guys when Obama was elected in 2008. A community organizer, never had a real job, 2.5 years as a Senator, no executive experience at all and none of you complained. Obama has mounted up more debt than all presidents combined so all of your whining and fear,because Trump has done nothing wrong, is not logical. "All we have to fear is fear it's self."
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2016 at 6:31pm
      Flumom,

      These people have watched too much of CNN, the "Clinton News Network" and have been brainwashed.

      What I don't understand, though, is how they've managed to ignore the worst for the past 8 years.

      These people will continue to vote Democrat for the following reasons.
      1) They believe that the government can do a better job of spending their money than they could.
      2) They're too irresponsible to own a gun and believe that the police can and will protect them when they experience a home invasion.
      3) They believe that illegals should have the right to free health care and social security.
      4) They don't care about paying $9,000 a year for a single person health policy because they don't mind supporting someone else who doesn't pay.
      5) They don't mind Muslim extremists crossing our southern border and actually want to roll out the welcome mat for them.

      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"… Albert Einstein
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2016 at 9:58pm
      In 2008, we were staring down the barrel of an imploding housing market, deepening recession and possible global depression, FluMom. I don't remember much to be nostalgic about in the last years of the Bush administration.

      Maybe in four years we will be looking at a significant reduction in our national debt. Personally I have no faith in Trump's ability to do it based on his plan to cut taxes (government revenue) and increase infrastructure spending, but I live in hope. And fingers crossed we'll still be around to discuss it.

      Crabby - you know we can read the posts where you talk about us to someone else, right? Ermm




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      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 6:14am
      good luck to Trump in bringing back the 10 million manufacturing jobs that have been lost since 1979
      and in the next few years a whole lot of other jobs are gonna disappear too

      Apple shows ambition to get into self-driving car race

      https://ca.news.yahoo.com/apple-shows-ambition-self-driving-car-race-031119943--finance.html

      it's obvious a LOT of truck and taxi cab driver jobs will disappear in the coming years
      but a lot of other jobs are gonna go with them

      "Some analysts forecast millions of jobs will be lost once self-driving cars largely replace truck, taxi and Uber drivers, and eliminate the need for most vehicle repairs, insurance adjusters and other functions."


      FoxConn-the guys that make Apple's products
      just announced that 60,000 jobs disappeared
      why?
      the workers were replaced with robots

      and we are merely in the beginning stages
      technology is hitting like a tidal wave
      things are changing faster than society can adjust

      individuals need to think hard about their job choices
      tens of millions of  no skill or semi skilled jobs like truck drivers,waiters,and factory work
      are going to go POOF
      and NO one can change that
      I don't care how big a Luddite they might be

      Fourth Turning
      get used to it
      the years ahead are going to be TUMULTUOUS ti sat the least

      people sitting around waiting for the government to do something
      are gonna be disappointed

      Stephen Hawking defined intelligence as "the ability to ADAPT to CHANGE"

      get with the program or get left behind

      there is literally a new paradigm
      few people seem to realize this
      the "good old days" aren't coming back
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 7:34am
      Yep - absolutely right. Automation is the reason for a lot of job losses in manufacturing.

      "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 10:18am
      Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

      Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

      Red storm rising....




      I read an article that claimed the White House staff knew nothing about the call until after. If that's the case, he's apparently operating without any input from diplomatic staff. Scary stuff.

      There are so many reports & articles floating around, it is hard to keep track of.  

      It appears that the call was set up by Trump staff who were in Taiwan.  The call did go from Taiwan to Trump, but it was hardly innocent.  

      This is very good:

      CRS, DrPH
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 10:27am
      Sure technology has taken many jobs but when a company says "We are moving to Mexico." Automation is a BS argument.

      I can tell you why United Technology/Carrier did not move...Government contracts. They do Millions and Millions with the government so I believer that the U.S. Government should only buy American! I bet that will bring back lots of companies back to the U.S. as well as better taxes, Obama Care Killed, and the onerous EPA rules repealed.

      It is time to buy American!
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 2:25pm
      Carrier wasn't moving to Mexico because of automation
      it's moving because wages there are SUBSTANTIALLY lower
      3-6$ an hour vs 25-28$ in the US

      and yes Trump probably did threaten to yank lucrative government contracts to blackmail UT in to keeping a few of those Carrier jobs

      and even that was only PARTIALLY effective wasn't it?
      2100 jobs were at stake,only 800 are staying


      wages/benefits are much more in this country
      because
      gee
      we actually like to have health insurance
      and vacation and sick days
      and workers comp if we get hurt on the job

      in third world countries
      you have NO safety net

      is that what we want in this country ?

      great

      RACE TO THE BOTTOM

      read a little history
      particularly what life was like for the average person working in a factory or coal mine in the early 1900's

      that's not what I want to go back to

      the average person is QUITE ignorant of how things used to be
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 2:35pm
      I'm loving this !

      Sarah Palin Slams Donald Trump’s Carrier Deal as ‘Crony Capitalism’


      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sarah-palin-crony-capitalism-carrier_us_58420349e4b017f37fe4c443

      Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin Already Mad at Donald Trump: ‘Big Sell-Out Is Coming

      http://www.thewrap.com/ann-coulter-sarah-palin-donald-trump-already-mad-sell-out-crony-capitalism/


      from Sarah's mouth to God's ear

      “crony capitalism” and “one big fail”


      don't kill the messenger

      I report

      YOU decideBig smile


      two of the right wings most prominent figures no less !!!






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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 5:13pm
      Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:


      Crabby - you know we can read the posts where you talk about us to someone else, right? Ermm




      What kind of posts are you talking about? I haven't privately messaged anyone and since I don't log in I can't do this anyway.

      Get over yourself.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2016 at 8:45pm
      Originally posted by Crabby Crabby wrote:

      Flumom,

      These people have watched too much of CNN, the "Clinton News Network" and have been brainwashed.

      What I don't understand, though, is how they've managed to ignore the worst for the past 8 years.

      These people will continue to vote Democrat for the following reasons.
      1) They believe that the government can do a better job of spending their money than they could.
      2) They're too irresponsible to own a gun and believe that the police can and will protect them when they experience a home invasion.
      3) They believe that illegals should have the right to free health care and social security.
      4) They don't care about paying $9,000 a year for a single person health policy because they don't mind supporting someone else who doesn't pay.
      5) They don't mind Muslim extremists crossing our southern border and actually want to roll out the welcome mat for them.

      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits"… Albert Einstein
      "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crabby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2016 at 9:58am
      Jacksdad,

      WOW! I was speaking in general terms about Democrats, but if you took my message personally, then I guess I must have hit my mark.

      It is obvious to me that you are incapable of agreeing to disagree, a poor trait for a "chief moderator".
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Satori Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2016 at 4:23pm
      mmm These people will continue to vote Democrat for the following reasons.
      1) They believe that the government can do a better job of spending their money than they could.
      2) They're too irresponsible to own a gun and believe that the police can and will protect them when they experience a home invasion.
      3) They believe that illegals should have the right to free health care and social security.
      4) They don't care about paying $9,000 a year for a single person health policy because they don't mind supporting someone else who doesn't pay.
      5) They don't mind Muslim extremists crossing our southern border and actually want to roll out the welcome mat for them.

      hmm
      let me go over these points one by one
      1)there is no evidence to suggest that individuals are any better at managing their finances
      do I really need to give examples ?
      2)my favorite weapon by far is a short barrel 12 gauge loaded with "home defender" type rounds,ie. a slug combined with 00
      3)no illegal aliens should not have the right to free health care or social security
      but they should never be denied life saving treatment in an emergency dept
      4)no one likes paying for health insurance but lets be honest,health care costs have ALWAYS increased
      to blame the Democrats is just plain wrong and LAZY
      wanna know why health insurance is so expensive ?
      just a few examples-I had a pt recently who was on on 28 prescription medications
      but thats not the record I had one who was actually on 36 medications

      and people are demanding unlimited access to health care,well the newest and the latest costs a hell of a lot of $$$
      one new cancer drug being advertised on tv VERY HEAVILY costs $150,000 for the initial treatment
      and then $14,000 a month after that
      I worked with a pt this weekend who gets a medication 3 times a week,it costs $3,000 a dose
      26 weeks in a year equals 78 doses equals $234,000 a year,is my math correct,?
      how many people have to pay into the insurance pool to cover just that one med for just one pt?
      so
      if Americans want that type of health care
      then my advice is shut the hell up and open your wallet
      OR
      start that brain dead and uneducated,uninformed crying about "death panels" again
      5) roll out the welcome mat ?
      seriously?
      not even gonna comment on that
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2016 at 6:24am
      Yep - what Satori said (except my favorite to shoot is a large caliber bolt action. Totally impractical, loud enough to scare everyone at the range, and soon to be joined by a pump load 12 gauge in the new year, along with another .22 semi automatic rifle so my son and I can go plinking together).


      "Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
      "Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2016 at 7:50am
      Originally posted by Crabby Crabby wrote:

      Jacksdad,

      WOW! I was speaking in general terms about Democrats, but if you took my message personally, then I guess I must have hit my mark.

      It is obvious to me that you are incapable of agreeing to disagree, a poor trait for a "chief moderator".


      There are qualifications? Sheesh, I didn't know.

      Get real, Crabby. This is the internet, and it's a tough neighborhood. AFT differs from most in that it's actually pretty civil, and you haven't yet been booted for some of your more colorful comments. And I'm not talking about the current discussion before you start bleating about freedom of speech (which doesn't apply to those who disagree with you it appears). I'm talking about those days when you wake up with the urge to vent about how unfair the world has been to you, and decide to pay us a visit because your neighbors learned to run from the front door to their cars long ago.

      Administrators and moderators on other sites rarely conduct themselves like we do. Don't believe me? As a guest, pick a fight with a member of the moderator group on any other survivalist site and see how long you last before any or all of them descend on you like wolverines on PCP. Enjoy that fact, but don't ever assume that it gives you carte blanche to abuse it. We are undoubtedly the nicest people planning for the end of civilization as we know it, but we have limits.

      I didn't fill out an application to become one of the chief moderators, and I certainly don't get paid. In fact, I'm not even sure how long I had the title before I happened to notice it one day. Something in my online persona apparently persuaded Albert to make the change, and I'm very grateful that he did. I love this site and it means a lot to me, but I'm not aware that the promotion (if it can be called that) came with any conditions or rules about how I was to behave. So, your point is....?

      That said, I do conduct myself differently these days and attempt to stay out of anything too contentious. Commenting on the current administration is not one of them. It can hardly be characterized as having nothing to do with me, because for the next four years it will deeply impact my life in many ways. It is my business whether you like it or not, and I have every right to comment. And while our current President-elect might frown on us minions criticizing him, it certainly won't stop his many detractors any more than it stopped Obama being pilloried for eight years (in many cases, by Trump himself). It doesn't work that way. Not on Twitter, not here and not anywhere in the real world.

      Agree to disagree - seriously? What you really want is for me to shut up and stop arguing with you, so you're going to package it up all nice and polite as an inability on my part to empathize with you. And for good measure, you threw the whole "you're a bad, bad chief moderator" thing in there too? Nice try. How's that working out for you?

      Register and make yourself accountable and I'll have a lot more respect. Stomping your feet and shouting from the sidelines doesn't cut it.








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      Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2016 at 1:07pm
      What Jacksdad said.  Except insert senior for chief.

      For what it is worth:  I think Jacksdad is a wonderful moderator, and I appreciate Albert picking him, and me.  In fact, all the moderators are now classed as friends in my eyes.
      How do you tell if a politician is lying?
      His lips or pen are moving.
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